The indoctrination of windows is extreme. Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.
And yet… linux is hard, and users decry RTFM as “not growing the userbase”
RTFM is great when it covers the problem you’re having, but I’ve seen multiple times in various forums, when the problem isn’t covered by the manual or the solution isn’t immediately obvious, the user is just ignored entirely. Some people have a really weird “linux doesn’t have any issues, its the user’s fault” attitude.
Last year I got told to RTFM and was linked to a documentation page that said
STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Which was very helpful
Linux is nice, but I wish there weren’t so many distros. The entire project should be managed by a central authority that uses violence to punish deviance, like Lenin said.
No.
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Who’s that?
Makes sense
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Double click the exe, pending update blocks the installer, reboot, click the exe, go through a wizard that ask questions you don’t know the answer to (usually defaults are ok though), be prompted for admin password, get blocked by corporate policies, fill out the IT ticket, have them remote to your box and install, reboot, find the program in the menu, run it, have it blocked by HBSS, put in ticket for that, update antivirus, reboot, manually pull group policy updates, reboot, more updates install, reboot, run the program.
Obviously silly, but also real.
Also, in Windows when you finally do run the program it just hangs with “Not responding”.
Not relevant when you own the machine.
It took me more time to read your post than to install a program.
Yes. After using Linux for servers and lower end machines I switched to mint on my main desktop a week ago. And while I’m quite pleased, it was not a seamless experience. I had to use a script that fixes my Bluetooth headset that connected but wasn’t showing up as an audio device when reconnecting, and apt sometimes having very out of date packages that just don’t work anymore. I love Linux but i really find it frustrating that many Linux users just seem a bit out of touch, don’t see that even some basics sometimes need weird fixes and that windows is just better at working out of the box. I really want Linux to get there but tbh i don’t see that happening in the near future.
It depends on what you are doing
As it turns out, there are a lot of tools that work best on Linux because they were intended to be used on a Linux system. Same goes for Windows stuff that is meant to be run on Windows. You can make it work but for the most polished experience it is best to stick with something well supported.
Honestly after using Linux for a while I greatly prefer to just enter one command in my terminal to install something like a CPU monitoring tool or a disk space analyzer. All in all I don’t think Linux is any harder vs windows, it’s just different and most people are used to working with Windows so Linux is “hard”. Like if there’s an issue with a program you just run it from terminal and it’ll tell you exactly what’s wrong usually, whereas on Windows I have to google these obscure error logs from eventvwr.
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Yes you’re right, I realize all too well as I work in tech support, I just find that on a technical level that both are just as “hard” each with their own peculiarities.
If you allow me a random question; I’m new to Lemmy and made my account in lemmy.world but I can only see the context of our discussion in lemm.ee, is this expected? What I mean is the “show context” button isn’t working for me except when I go to the source of your comment here : https://lemm.ee/comment/19375854
EDIT : I think it was a language setting thing which I’ve reverted back to “undetermined” after making that first comment. Like I can’t even find that comment back on my own profile but I can find this one perfectly fine. Sorry I’m new to this lol.
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I’ve managed to fix it. I had to set my language to the same as when I made my initial comment to you, then I could actually find it and edited that one as language “undertermined”. Then changed my profile language back to “undetermined” and everything looks ok now. It’s now all showing up in lemmy.world for me with full context. I guess lemmy.world is more strict about this type of stuff vs lemm.ee
That’s true! I just remember helping my troubleshoot his issues recently and it was a nightmare going into the registry and editing stuff, the UX is so bad!
I love when Linux gets complex because it makes sense. When Windows gets complex with Powershell, or any other horrible stuff in this OS, I just wish it wouldn’t lol.
Again, still not the norm. But I pray for all the nontechnical gen-z players of Valorant when something bad happens on their PC lol
Windows has the excuse of being preinstalled everywhere. It makes it very hard to break system or to use the system in a way not blessed by Microsoft.
Linux is fairly easy to learn and gives you lots and lots of power.
It looks like everyone always forget about Chromebooks or kind of ignore them…
I like Chromebooks
I would use one if it wasn’t a privacy and freedom nightmare. I think it would be cool if there was a distro that was rootless by design and unbreakable as possible
I like Chromebooks
I would use one if it wasn’t a privacy and freedom nightmare. I think it would be cool if there was a distro that was rootless by design and unbreakable as possible
I super hate Chromebooks. My mom gave my kid one and it’s ruining my life. I should have just binned it and gotten him a real laptop with mint or ubermix.
He has a computer now with ubermix, but it’s an uphill battle.
You could ask him what he wants
Best way to engage kids in tech is to give them options.
Oh I know what he wants. He wants me to put games on it. If I do it’ll wreck his sleep habits for life
Family link Is Great for that
Depending on his age that may or may not be acceptable. My parents used to have a charging station away from bedrooms. The rules was that tech went on the charger at a certain time.
Tip, you can put full Linux on most chromebooks and chromeos devices. I’ve done it before mrchromebox.tech
I’ve tried and failed. I forget the particulars but I wasn’t able to get it to accept the change.
On mine I had to use a BIOS flasher tool since it was locked and Dev mode wasn’t allowed to be enabled (think it was due to enterprise enrollment), though flashing the image directly worked like a charm following the unbricking guide.
Linux isn’t hard anymore because I have ChatGPT to come up with all the command lines for me. And they work 60% of the time!
I was on a reddit thread the other day which was about Microsoft ending the support for Windows 10. Naturally, I thought people would be boasting about Linux in that thread, but nope, people just want to keep using windows 10 or want Steam to release SteamOS. This was the PC Gaming sub too.
I finally switched to Linux, while Linux itself is just as easy to use as Windows, actually installing Linux can be a nightmare. When setup works properly its no harder than windows, the other 95% of the time its about chasing down an easily solved problem but you have to figure out which easily solved problem it is.
You described installing old windows, before update took care of drivers.
I install Linux on many machines each year, and I can’t even remember the last time I had a problematic installation. Your experience sounds quite unusual. Are you using some obscure distro?
I had the same experience until i bought an HP (Omen) gaming laptop a couple of years ago. Even regular Ubuntu didn’t boot from USB drive. I had to mess with some kernel parameters (ACPI or something) to even boot it. Unfortunately sometimes you have some hardware or weird bios that just doesn’t work. Never had this with any other laptop after
This may be due to manufacturers locking their machines down with Secure Boot and only installing the keys that allow it to boot Windows. It’s not something that could be fixed by the makers of the Linux install disk. They’d need to persuade the hardware manufacturer to preinstall their key.
Mint Cinnamon. It turned out just to be switching the name of a file on the boot media but it took a long time to work through other issues to get there.
I love Mint. It’s still my favorite Debian-rooted distro, even though I moved on from it more than a decade ago. But their refusal to adapt their install image to newbie-proof it frustrates me so much. I can’t think of another mainline distro that’s given me any problems in creating install media or installing, and that makes it impossible for me to recommended Mint to anyone who won’t have me over their shoulder during the install process.
I commend you for sticking to it and figuring out what the issue and fix were. 90% of users would have given up, reinstalled Windows, and went on Reddit to complain about how shitty Linux is.
I mean I did complain on lemmy about how annoying it was a few times, its a shame too because this problem turned out to be super simple and potentially super common, it would just take a couple of lines being changed on the official setup guide to resolve it… actually come to think of it since its just renaming a file all it would take is having 2 copies of that file in the image with both names since only one is ever going to be used at a time anyway.
For sure, you never lose your right to complain. But be fair to yourself too, even if you complained incessantly, you stuck it out (and what is a Linux user without incessant complaining?).
The point is what you said though, they could very easily solve an issue that could be preventing a large group of potential users from adopting… because the maintenance team doesn’t want to update the installation guide or the file names. Again, it’s a very Linux thing for them to take that position. And that’s why I end up recommending an Ubuntu spin to people, even though I think the whole package that Mint presents is nicer out of the box.
Years ago this is exactly what happened with Windows XP. I still see the odd one hanging around somehow. I suspect this will be very similar.
I mean if people move to steamOS how is that not a win?
That is a win. I was just surprised to not see anyone just say any of the existing distros, you know, multiple solutions that already exist.
Strange, I was also on a thread about ending support, and I found (and upvoted) tons of comments about switching to Linux. Must have been from different communities.
Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.
With Windows, there is 1 current version of Windows (11), 1 “almost current” (10), 1 “outdated but you’ll maybe see it” (8.x) and only a few “you’ll probably only see this in obscure situations” versions. Linux has as many “parent” distros/package management systems (apt, rpm, pacman, etc.). This definitely complicates things, as each distro family does things slightly differently.
And we haven’t even touched the window manager/DE choices, of which there are a ton (as opposed to Windows). “Combinatorical explosion” maybe isn’t the right phrase, but you get the idea — Debian with i3wm is wildly different from Fedora Plasma.
This is all a good thing though, as Linux users tend to like the choice and flexibility — but it does mean that the “right way” to do something on Linux is very dependent on your particular setup, which isn’t the case with Windows.
(I have used Linux for the last 20+ years, and it’s definitely my preferred setup, and am lucky enough that I rarely use Windows for work, and never for personal use.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if Windows XP has higher market share than Windows 8 when you account for air gapped devices.
Every old iOT device seems to to run XP
That’s why we got together and agreed on one version of Linux to recommend to new adopters.
Linux Version
Okay, maybe we should have reconsidered when Hannah Montana Linux won the vote…
I mean, people are gonna bite my head off for this, but most non technical folks are turned off by someone calling them stupid… That’s what “RTFM” sounds like. I think there needs to be a culture change to drive adoption, but stuff like the Steam Deck is helping a lot.
I think the troll users are getting old and grey at this point. People people are willing to help.
These days, they could even just ATFAI (like Ask The Fucking AI) and would arrive at desired destination.
The thing that prevents adoption is the human fear of change.
Hot take among what often seems to be an “AI is the devil!” crowd.
😄yes, but to be honest, I, for example, learned practically all coding I can by reading code together with AI
And as it is code, I see what happens when I compile/execute it and can uncover hallucinations like this.
Of course, my code is at first vibe programming with many small commits, but as soon as it is working, I clean up by rebasing and double checking all commits to be consistent.
And it generally helps me well with my Linux issues, as it is pretty good parsing the arch wiki
Even technical folks aren’t huge fans of RTFM.
If I’m doing something incredibly interesting, and I’m asking for help, I should RTFM.
If I’m doing something routine, we can (and usually do, now), make it simple enough not to need a manual.
Make Local LUGs Great Again.
My brain had to work hard to pull that acronym from the depths lol.
I understand the impetus behind RTFM - It happens when the user failed to do basic troubleshooting and expects others to do their thinking. Being blown off doesn’t feel great, but other people’s time is valuable, and in the end your system is your own responsibility.
One thing I have noticed a lot of lately is that people just don’t want to have to fucking read at all anymore and it kind of is wrecking my faith in humanity. Asking people to read isn’t a big ask.
Asking people to read isn’t a big ask.
Yes, but asking them to read a large, technical manual that’s gonna put them several hours and multiple pages in for a single concept is.
“I feel like we are nearing the end of times. We humans are losing faith in ourselves.”
- Hayao Miyazaki
It’s not just reading, people don’t want to mentally engage with things. There are people who would rather read movie reviews than go watch a movie and form their own opinion on it.
Engaging with material will always require something of the audience. We can try to make things as accessible and easy to understand as possible, but that doesn’t “solve” the problem, it just lowers the bar. Lowering the bar isn’t bad, but it seems like the wrong strategy for the current era. I think a better strategy is attempting to foster and enthusiastic community at a local level. Get together with friends on the weekends and mess around with stuff in person, talk about it.
Every moment of our lives is filled with stimulation.
Every moment we aren’t forced to focus we disassociate to recover from the constant never ending focus.
We are Great Apes, huge fucking mammals, how do other huge apes spend their time? Literally napping and eating for most of the day. If you forced a fucking gorilla to work a 9-5 they would get zoochosis and all their hair would fall out and they would get depressed and die.
Our bodies and minds aren’t evolved enough to handle this rapidly complicating society, it’s stressing us out to the point where we lash out at each other and burn out.
Our society is to blame for all of the malbehavors.
We can try to make things as accessible and easy to understand as possible
That’s where we’re at now with social media. Things are super accessible, but shallow and often based on pure emotional appeal.
Make the manual super short, pretty, interactive, unobtrusive and spread it around the system contextually. Then users might “read” it.
Sounds like a great plan! The arch wiki is waiting for your help ❤️❤️❤️ looking forward to seeing a new take on the manuals 🥰
They’re basically describing a good GUI.
RTFM is not a working formula. Because most people skip reading the manual for one simple reason, the manual is hard to read.
I remember my early arch days when asking a question about an issue I’m having was always met with a wikipage I already read but did not understand.
Rather than pushing for a magic manual, the best is to provide sane default or point to tutorials.
The best is when people tell you to RTFM and the information you need just straight up isn’t there.
It’s the same way you gotta ask if they turned it off and on again. Too many don’t even look up the manual, now yes. Some hostility is just plain hostility, but the phrase is there for a good reason.
Maybe if the people giving advice would RTFM, they’d know what isn’t in it.
Git gud
/s
man 1 git-gud
just google it and the google is just a reddit post that says [deleted]
Or isn’t deleted but either has no replies or replies that didn’t help them either
Or “if you’re having trouble there is no manual, FAQ, or wiki, just join our discord troubleshooting channel” vomit
And after hours of troubleshooting, you give in and join the Discord where you’re promptly ignored.
Or if you’re really lucky, people are willing to help, so you spend hours more troubleshooting, often repeating many of the same steps, only for all of them to give up too. (As was my experience when I tried to switch to Linux Mint.)
Those cases where the users didn’t WTFM
Aaaand why is that? It’s hard to read because…?
We need individuals like you to help it out. It’s like wikipedia
They are hard to read because they are written to explain concepts to people who already understand them. Handy if you just need them for reference. Useless if you are trying to learn. Which is why RTFM is often bad advice
I’m currently trying to migrate my stack on my VPS from docker to podman. Bonus points if I get it running rootless.
Somehow, podman compose just wouldn’t work with my existing docker compose file. I quickly found out that podman has many options, but quadlets are preferred. It took me a while to understand what they even are and their concept. I did get the idea and the concept from the docs, but everything else was demonstrating how to set up a very simple one (think a hello world container). Or I found some blog posts with ready made complex examples for some random stacks that were way over my head. But a simple tutorial on how to map the fields/parts of a docker compose to a
.container,.networkor.volumefile for my stack consisting of several containers in a few networks with a reverse proxy in front of it? Nope.I’m the end I found podlet and used that to convert a docker-compose. While the result wasn’t completely working (e.g. a problem with some environment vars that got passed and switched in a few “layers” that podlet understandably messed up), it was enough to understand all of it with the docs and complete the quadlet. Now I just need to experiment with the rootless part.
Currently, my first and foremost pet peeve is, that different distros use different approaches and utilities, but many blog posts or guides don’t tell you what distro they’re for. If you google the problem and find the fourth guide on how to solve it and realize halfway through, that it’s again e.g. for Debian based systems, while you’re running on SUSE or RedHat or Arch or… can be very frustrating.
Is there no tutorial for mapping docker compose into .container, .network, .volume file at all? That’s unbelievable, one would expect there surely is one.
Maybe I didn’t search right, but since I found podlet first, while looking for a tutorial, I was lazy and gave it a try. It’s result was enough to get me there. Maybe, had I completely read the podlet docs and checked all optional arguments, o could have gotten a perfect result. But that way, I learned better about quadlets.
It’s hard to read because people lack background knowledge. Man pages were horrible for my first 15 years or so.
Once you have the skills that you hardly need to read them they’re fine.
That’s why everyone wants to look it up on stack exchange, they want the answer, not an unending series of lessons
Man pages are still not great on Linux. Very few examples with common use-cases and explanations. I shouldn’t need to visit the Arch wiki.
OpenBSD man pages are a delight in comparison, and really all you need to learn how to manage the system.
tldris the application you need.This is a great project. Should replace man for noob distros.
It’s hard to read because it’s a manual made for technical users.
On Linux most of the software is made by freelance developers who often forget that all users are not technical and even if they are they don’t want to be forced to interact with technical stuff. For the same reason I don’t want to daily-drive gentoo, sometimes I don’t want to read the manual.
I happen to be a contributor on multiple FOSS project and most didn’t have a docs directory in their repo or website, let alone an user guide. That’s fine for a CLI program to rely on wiki/manuals but graphical apps should have a user guide on their website. Working on documentation is a thankless job in FOSS spaces.
Plus I don’t want to spend 30 minutes to wade through pages of documentation for a 5-word command that makes my speakers work.
Then people need to be taught how to read better. Not Linux’s fault the education system was dismantled over the years.
What an arrogant comment 😂
Since you find some motive to rebuild the kernel in your own way or correcting bugs from 80s cli applications you’ll be quite there…
Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.
Windows used to be easy. Now, it’s so obscure and locked down that only Microsoft can maintain your computer. And they maintain it for their own benefit, at your expense, with mandatory ads and lockouts.
I disagree about how it used to be easy. And agree with everything else.
Ive used Windows since the 3.1 days (MSDOS as well?). Its never been “easy”. You just learn the magic spells on how to fix a printer, get the right drivers installed in JUST the right way, or which hardware magically doesn’t work for some reason and avoid it.
With Linux, at least we get good logs most of the time.
i remember my first family pc was a tandy sensation which had it’s own built in ui - winmate - because windows 3.1 program manager was so frustrating.
As a kid using XP, never had a single issue.
As a kid helping his family’s XP and 7 computers, I had faced plenty of issues.
My favorites:
- One computer (I think XP) didn’t use the correct resolution on Intel’s driver, and needed Windows’s fallback driver
- One computer (I think 7) required Windows’s fallback driver for audio, and Windows Update was installing VIA’s or Realtek’s drivers
I’m probably gonna get hated on for this but here’s my story:
About 3 weeks ago I bought a new gaming laptop with no OS with the intention of installing Linux myself and ditching Windows.
I’d read a lot online about how Linux was now competitive with Windows as Linux emulators could run Windows games with a 10-15% boost in performance. I read that it was all a case of finding the right distro and that Linux is much more user friendly and compatible now. So I did a little research, made myself a ventoy boot USB with Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Pop, Garuda and Fedora to see which one I liked best.
None of them worked properly. All of them had weird little quirks. Some I could live with, some were completely infuriating. So l did a little tinkering as I was determined not to give in. None of the distros detected my hardware properly, and so I went away found forums with similar issues and I fixed most of them. However, no matter what I tried I could not get the laptop speakers to work. No problem, I thought, I’ll be either using headphones or BT to my soundbar (as that worked fine). So having given up on the speaker issue, I downloaded some games. In all of the distros they ran like shit. Sound bugs, laggy game play, some wouldn’t play at all. Again, I tried tinkering with the settings, using a different version of proton, different sound drivers, different graphics settings, different commands and programs which might solve the issues. No. Each different distro threw up different issues which I spent hours and researching and experimenting. I tried a few more distros and found new issues which needed more research and more experimenting.
Over the three weeks or so I was trying I became irritable and depressed. I’d spent a lot of money on the laptop and I was unable to use it because no matter what I tried, even with relatively low resource hungry games, they did not run well at all, and even linux itself seemed slow and unresponsive in comparison to what I was used to.
So after hours and hours of climbing the walls and snapping at my wife and neglecting my kid, I downloaded Windows. And everything just works. There are bespoke programs for my graphics card and everything in my steam library runs beautifully with very minimal tinkering. So now I have a dual boot system, windows for games only and Linux for everything else.
I hate that I’m still enthralled to Windows, but seriously, Linux is just not ready for mass adoption. If something doesn’t work on Windows , it’s usually a case of just downloading the correct driver and Windows normally knows which one you need. If something doesn’t work on Linux it’s a slog through paragraphs of text which all assume some basic knowledge of coding or Linux’s file system or some other jargon, or watching endless YouTube videos and then still getting nowhere. As a working husband and father I just do not have the time to put into it.
Tl;Dr - Windows is much easier than Linux. That’s why everyone uses Windows.
Well, that sounds like issues with your specific hardware, because that’s definitely not the usual Linux experience.
Tip for next time: find some distro that has up to date kernel. Ubuntu, Mint and Debian are definitely not good if you have very recent hardware, they stay on old kernels for quite a long time. And drivers are in the kernel.
I have to disagree about Windows being easier, but that’s fairly subjective. What’s 100% objective is that it’s definitely not the reason everyone uses Windows, the reason is much simpler: it came with their machine.
Anyway, I recommend Nobara for gaming - it’s basically Fedora, but preconfigured for gaming and general normal use.
Thanks, I’ll give it a whirl and see how I get on.
I have similar experiences. I converted my surface laptop to linux and overall I’m happy that I did, but games that ran fine on windows now are unplayable because I can’t get it to work properly, neither with wine, unbottled nor proton.
I still have a W10 gaming pc and I planned on converting it to linux with pop os being the frontrunner, but I will keep it on dual boot with the fallback scenario of just going with W11. Linux is not and might never be ready for mass adoption because it is simply too reliant on volunteers, forums and self-troubleshooting for that.
Microsoft and Apple provide OS’es that are thoroughly tested and validated with firmware and drivers that are specifically written for them by people whose job it is to do that. It might not always be perfect, but it usually does what it needs to do right away.
Oh interesting! What model surface do you have? I have a surface pro which I was considering converting (before the above nightmare) but have read that MS have made it super difficult for anything later than a 7 and I have an 8.
It’s quite easy actually. Just google linux surface and you will find the project website where they list all surface models and potential issues with installation guidelines. I have a pro 8. The only thing not working are the cameras as nobody has figured out the drivers yet.
Edit: Project GitHub page https://github.com/linux-surface/
You sound like a Windows power user and of course linux will be harder because you are not used to it.
I had a simmilar first months until I was used to linux. Now I find many things much more convinient in Linux.
And yes there is hardware that works in windows but not in linux like there is hardware that wont work in macos. But over time you will only buy stuff that is compatible and you wont think about it anymore.
Thats why I recommend dual booting at the start because sometimes you need to get shit done without trying to learn the new way and so you don’t get burnt out. But if you keep at it you will start to use windows less and less.
This is much less a Linux problem and much more a communuty one. We really need a semi-centralized place to get recent linux info and a nice guide on linux specific knowlage for beginners, but then people will cry needing to learn what wayland/x11 and such are will turn people away. Whoever was telling you windows games 10-15% faster were fucking dumbasses, I have zero problem running any game I want on my machine but the preformace has been exactly the same as windows (which I still consider a win for linux)
The next big problem is people going “We don’t need gaming distros” when those gaming distros are made to solve this exact problem. If you haven’t already try out Bazzite or Nobara and it might “just work” (no promises tho). But a distro like Mint/Pop/Debian are going to have a lot of missing drivers/package updates for the latest hardware, Fedora needs relatively a lot of post-install tinkering to get things working since they only ship opensource packages by default, Garuda is not ment for beginners and uses a more unstable kernal for preformance, but you still need to tinker with drivers. Bazzite and Nobara are the two big distros that aim to “just work” out of the box and even re-package some software with the latest fixes. And incase you don’t like the look of them, you can install whatever theme over KDE Plasma you want
Ofc I get if your tired of hearing “just install this distro instead” but a lot of advice is coming from others who also don’t actually know whats going on under the surface, and sometimes your hardware just isn’t supportes (not a linux issue but a manufacturer one). And if your at the point where using windows for gaming works and thats enough for you, nothin wrong with just using windows
Oof. Sorry you had such a bad experience.
Pro tip for others: It takes time for volunteers to reverse engineer new proprietary laptop hardware.
If the laptop manufacturers aren’t advertising Linux support, it’s up to the community to play guess and check, to figure out what the proprietary drivers do.
You might get lucky and pick the same exact model as a passionate reverse engineer. Or you might not.
With old stuff, your odds are much better that someone has figured it out for you.
For new hardware, it’s still essential to pick a vendor that chooses to write and release Linux drivers.
This will get better when truly open hardware platforms gain popularity.
Yeh, I’d come to that conclusion myself. The laptop I bought was a 2023 lenovo legion 9i which is have discovered is not a particularly popular model but shares a lot of it’s DNA with the far more popular 7i. So I figured most of the software and fixes would be cross-compatible. Turns out that I was wrong. I’m not giving up hope yet, and I’m not gonna get rid of the laptop anytime soon. Maybe they’ll be a new kernal that come out which fix the issues I’ve been having.
To be fair, you most likely have nvidia in your PC.
As I see it, the distos you tried ether have a gui to install those proprietary drivers, but are on old kernel or no GUI to install them, but a recent kernel.
Installing nvidia drivers on endeavourOS is very simple and you always get the newest fixes after writing “yay” into console.
Installing apps is as easy as “yay [desired app]” and then choose out of the list. (Just don’t take the “-git” versions but the “-bin” versions 🤭)
After that, install steam out of multilib and make sure to pick the right vulkan package (based on GPU driver in use)
All this nvidia stuff is so complicated on Linux, because nvidia is not caring enough about Linux yet.
Only way to fix that is adoption.
Even Nvidia drivers have come a long way recently. I used to always have a windows setup and used it more than Linux whenever I was off work, but this year I was finally confident enough on Linux to ditch it. I have Nvidia gpus on all my PCs, with both Intel and AMD cpus, and they are all working perfectly fine with multiple 4k screens.
So far there were only two games I was unable to play on Linux - Demoncrawl and Inzoi. And the second is filled with reports saying it works ootb for other Linux users, so if I had tried to tinker I could probably get it to work. (I haven’t had to tinker with anything else tho).
All this nvidia stuff is so complicated on Linux,
I installed mint, opened the driver manager, picked the latest NVIDIA driver and it just worked. No idea what everybody is talking about …
Granted I’m on an old 1080ti, so maybe that’s it …
It is just to get newer versions of the proprietary drivers faster, and to have a more similar environment as developers. (Like if a feature of the driver is dependent on a new API just added to nearly most recent kernel)
Kernel updates can bring better support for different hardware which as well can influence how well the GPU drivers work, like, improving them.
😇but nice to hear that it works on your machine well 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Thanks this is very helpful. I was steering clear of the more terminal heavy distros as tbh I find the terminal a bit daunting as a noob. I’ll give it a go tho.
Don’t know about your hardware. I don’t own a notebook anymore. I read good things about the AUR package optimus-manager-qt for hybrid GPUs (iGPU+dedicated GPUs) but also that it can be a bit tricky.
I exlusively used dedicated Nvidia cards in desktop rigs with Arch & EndeavourOS since 2017 when I switched from Win 10. Additionally exclusively KDE.
Though I had a bit of experience with other distros and desktop environments before my switch I’d wager to say you should give one last try to EndeavourOS, even if you have barely any Linux experience. I mean you had so many failed attempts. One more won’t hurt.
Use EndeavourOS not arch. First, it uses the standard initial graphical system-setup (Calamares), then it comes with some good default settings & tools and finally a welcome screen which features links to additional tools like mirror selection (for faster updates), update shortcuts, package search, docs/wikis/forums or logs.
I’d select KDE in Calamares and I’d install the graphical package manager octopi via “yay octopi” after system installation and activate yay for the AUR in the octopi settings as e.g. optimus-manager-qt (which you should only use with hybrid GPUs) is only available in the AUR. You need to click the alien symbol in octopi to install from the AUR.
The AUR (Arch User Repository) is the repository for packages not available in the main repositories. AUR packages are user contributed where the maintainers write a so called PKGBUILD file which contains the steps to build and install a package from foreign sources (e.g. from a debian DPKG or from github sources). With octopi you can quickly open the PKGBUILD file and look from where the maintainer pulls the parts of the package.
The amount of software available in the AUR is gigantic but it can potentially contain malware (which happened a very few times). But you’ll have a hard time finding users who actually had that happen to them. A good indicator that the package is ok are its number of votes. But if you really want to know you have to check the sources in the PKGBUILD. If they come from github, you could check the github-repo and only it’s stars (votes) if you won’t read the sourcecode.
That all sounds mighty complicated but it isn’t. Just try to install packages from the main repo. Click the alien symbol only when you don’t find something official.
So with octopi and the welcome screen you don’t need to enter any terminal commands for package installation or the system update. I had only a few updates where problems occurred in like 7 years and they were always fixable. The Arch Wiki and the Endeavour forums could always help.
I can’t guarantee you’ll have a better experience than with the other distros and you will meet some bumps or roadblocks for sure. I’m not playing the the most current games and a lot of retro games via Lutris and Heroic. For some of them I had to tinker a bit and try different starters than Steam. Arma, Path of Exile, Sekiro (fitgirl repack), Diablo Immortal were tricky but all the steam games or e.g. Witcher 3 via Heroic run very nice.
On the screen where you login (usually SDDM) you can switch between Wayland and X11. Which are two very different Display managers. Wayland is the replacement for the very old X11. It works way(land) better with AMD GPUs than with Nvidia which are usable though but work much better on X11. Games can be faster on wayland for Nvidia than on X11. But things like missing color management in nvidia-settings make me stay with X11.
Oh yeah as mentioned in a comment below Nobara based on Fedora could also be a very good distro if you’re out for gaming.
Thanks of taking the time to write all this. I’ll certainly give it a go once I’ve worked up the will power to go back down the rabbit hole!
Wait, what brand/model laptop did you get?
A lenovo legion 9i
Ouch, the legion series has pretty bad compatibility.
So I’ve learned! I’m no programmer so I guess I’ll just wait until the software catches up. Hopefully won’t be too long!
I don’t even understand the question.
