• SharkEatingBreakfast
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    743 months ago

    Let’s be real: they’re terrified that they might be forced to be near poor people, minorities, gays, and mentally ill folk.

  • @Not_mikey@slrpnk.net
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    273 months ago

    but there’s crazy people on the subway

    You don’t think there’s crazy people on the highway? And on the highway they’re controlling a 2 ton killing machine in a sometimes stressful situation.

    I’ll take the crazy guy yelling in the corner of the subway then see what he’s like behind the wheel of one of those huge pickup trucks during traffic.

    • Ziglin (it/they)
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      13 months ago

      I’m with you but driver’s licenses are meant to help weed those out. I think they are likely rarer but not uncommon.

    • @mao@lemmy.sdf.org
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      63 months ago

      Yeah like what the fuck? Every time I drive on a highway I encounter at least one potential life-ending moment, where if I hit the breaks one second too late I’ll die. This is absolutely a trillion times worse than the slim chance of getting a subway car lit on fire lol

      • @Auli@lemmy.ca
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        43 months ago

        Then you are not giving the proper distance. If you experience this every time you drive you are probably the problem.

        • @LaserRunRaccoon@lemmy.ca
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          3 months ago

          If you can’t conceive of a situation where you need to slam the brakes due to external factors despite following the recommended 2-second following distance, you’re ignorant of the depths of bad driving. Have you really never been cut off before?

          I would go so far as to say that if you’re not noticing at least a single example of dangerous driving nearly every time you leave the house, you’re probably not aware enough to be a safe driver.

      • @Emerald@lemmy.world
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        23 months ago

        Every time I drive on a highway I encounter at least one potential life-ending moment, where if I hit the breaks one second too late I’ll die

        What highway is this?

      • @Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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        33 months ago

        If you’re having near death experiences every single day, that has to be something you’re doing wrong.

  • @Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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    553 months ago

    I’ve done both.

    Safest place in the subway is at the front of the first car near the motorman. Second best is the front of the second car. If there’s trouble you can move to the first car [with the motorman easily] and have two doors between you and the troublemaker.

    • @unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
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      873 months ago

      Public transport is directly correlated with ridership numbers. When using public transport is the best mobility option, then everyone from all backgrounds will use it and that leads to less bullshit being done.

      The numbers are pretty early but the congestion pricing in NYC has apparently already led to less crime in the subway.

      The latest Climate Town vid is great.

    • @disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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      313 months ago

      You also shouldn’t use your phone if you’re right near the doors. It’s too easy for someone to grab it and exit the car as the doors close.

            • Ziglin (it/they)
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              13 months ago

              The only trains I’ve been on with both were inter city trains but regional trains usually have bathrooms too. It’s just the subways and similar that haven’t had bathrooms in my experience.

          • @ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            43 months ago

            Meanwhile:

            https://www.nydailynews.com/2025/04/04/two-teens-stabbed-in-bronx-subway-station-robbery/ (yesterday)

            https://pix11.com/news/local-news/manhattan/woman-raped-inside-nyc-subway-station-nypd/ (Mar 17)

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-slashed-on-nyc-subway-by-maniac-with-large-knife-cops-say/ar-AA1AZyGL (2w ago)

            https://www.nbcnewyork.com/queens/pregnant-woman-punched-in-face-on-rush-hour-nyc-subway-train-sources-say/6174141/ (Mar 5)

            Sure, crime has gone down recently in the subway to pre-pandemic levels, but there was still shit like this regularly pre-pandemic too. Definitely wouldn’t leave your anything alone on the subway in NYC.

            Also afaik (been a while) there is no bathroom for you to worry about leaving your stuff, people just piss in the subway cars themselves.

              • @ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                I’m not claiming that there’s not more deaths on the highway, that’d be crazy considering the highways span the entire country rather than the NYC metro area and also carry more people than the subways, so like, simply by raw numbers “duh.”

                the highway network in the United States had a total length of around 4.2 million statute miles. One statute mile is approximately equal to 5,280 feet.

                NYC subway length: 248 mi (399 km) (route length) 665 mi (1,070 km) (track length, revenue) 850 mi (1,370 km) (track length, total)

                Yeah 4.2 million miles compared to 248 miles? Again I’m required to say “duh.”

                Conversely, though I never claimed The Highways were paragons of safety, others claimed the Subway is, when in fact the crime is simply “back down to pre-pandemic levels” which is to say “very much still there, but better, sure.”

                • @porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  So compare the deaths per mile traveled, per time travelled, per person who uses each as their main mode of transport, whichever metric you think would give a good representation of the relative risk of taking the subway versus driving on the highway

            • Scrubbles
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              53 months ago

              See the thing about transit crime is that it’s such a huge deal that it hits the news so hard when anything like that happens.

              Meanwhile how many people have died driving in the last month? It’s such a huge number that it’s not even worth reporting on, it’s just “normal”. Fear is in the eye of the beholder.

              I’ll take my chances on the extremely rare likelihood that something happens to me on the subway vs the probability that I’ll be maimed or killed while driving.

              • @ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                3 months ago

                I think in reality “rape” is just more of a news story than “car crash.” Really seems obvious to me, actually. Car crashes happen by accident, rape and stabbing takes intention. People being intentionally run over also happens to be a news story usually, fwiw. “Crime” just sells more than “accident.”

                Like, a mechanic at your local shop losing a finger is a rare possibility, but unless you live in a small town where it was literally the only thing that happened this week it won’t even be on your local news at 11 either, but if his coworker chases him around the shop and cuts his finger off you bet your ass it’ll be covered by the tri-state area.

                In any case I never claimed car crashes were a myth, I claimed that “crime has dropped to pre-pandemic levels” means there’s still plenty crime, as there was pre-pandemic. You saying you’d leave your phone plugged in on the subway and walk to one of those “bathrooms?”

                • Scrubbles
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                  13 months ago

                  I’m saying you can’t call one mode of transportation “unsafe” while completely ignoring the elephant that is the dangers of driving.

                • @SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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                  13 months ago

                  Interestingly, a not-insignificant number of sexual assaults by strangers happen in parking lots, apparently because victims are often alone, and there’s nobody else around. But those don’t tend to make the news.

          • @Soup@lemmy.world
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            103 months ago

            Ya’ll have a bathroom on your light rail? Are we still talking about simple metro systems are is that not a full-blown “train”(I put it quotes because they’re all trains, but you get the idea).

            • FundMECFSOP
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              93 months ago

              It’s like halfway between a train and a tram and it goes partially underground.

              I think light rail is the right name?

              • @Soup@lemmy.world
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                33 months ago

                To me, a light-rail is something that operate within a municipality. Like, it’s for commuting and isn’t too intense, but differs from a subway because it is not strictly underground. Having a bathroom in a light-rail setup would be like having one on a metro whereas having a bathroom on an inter-city train makes a whole lot more sense.

        • @rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          213 months ago

          It’s really sad, but for perspective, take that crime of theft, multiple it by tens of thousands up to millions of times larger, and you have the CEO’s, the oligarchs, the billionaires, the POTUS.

          We know how to fix this - it starts with holding their biggest crooks accountable, then making sure everyone has their basic needs met, social trust gets restored as people are no longer desperate.

        • @disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          It is sad. It wasn’t always like this. When I was growing up I could walk anywhere as a kid and every adult on the block had their eye on me. A lot has changed in NYC in 40 years.

          • @mriormro@lemm.ee
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            23 months ago

            My brother in Christ, NYC was fucking wild in the 80’s. How are you even comparing?

            • @disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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              13 months ago

              It was, but neighbors were more aware and vigilant. People spent more time outside in the streets in residential areas, and knew their neighbors. I remember walking with my sister to get Italian ices when I was no more than 10 years old, and every other building had neighbors out front waving hello. We also couldn’t do anything we shouldn’t be doing without someone yelling from across the way. Now the same neighborhood seems lifeless and desolate. People just stay inside and mind their own. It’s just not as communal as it used to be.

              • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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                03 months ago

                You should read “Death and Life of Great American Cities” by Jane Jacobs, because it talks about this. Basically, having more people on the sidewalk makes for healthier, safer, neighborhoods. Having everyone drive instead of walking is really bad for pretty much every metric we care about- safety, the environment, economic activity.

    • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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      63 months ago

      People who don’t live here think it’s like The Warriors. They picture roving gangs of murderous criminals, live wires sparking everywhere, and insane people screaming Eldritch horrors. This is not accurate.

      • @JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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        53 months ago

        Okay, it’s not that bad, but it’s also not the kind and peaceful utopia people in this thread are trying to make it out to be.

    • FundMECFSOP
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      123 months ago

      In America the metro is seen as where there are lots of poor people and drug addicts and the rich people tend to prefer to buy fancy cars and drive them.

      It’s kind of the same logic as to why america is one of the few countries where the poor people tend to live in the city center, but the rich people out in the suburbs.

      • @Dozzi92@lemmy.world
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        23 months ago

        It’s so much more than this, and it just seems like you don’t have any experience that you’re drawing from. My main experience is the subway in Manhattan (and trains from NJ to get there). You go from the chronically late trains in NJ, to the poor infrastructure in NY, and whether or not the train smells like piss, or there’s someone who I am desperately trying to to avoid making eye contact with, just ends up being the cherry on top of what was an unenjoyable and often unnecessarily long trip.

        • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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          33 months ago

          I’ve rarely had a subway that smells like piss. The last time I had a stench on the train was years ago. It’s not always “so clean I would eat off the seats” but the NYC subway is much better than people who don’t ride it imagine it.

          Most of the people on the train are just people trying to get someplace.

          • Suite404
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            03 months ago

            Rode on the subway the first time last year. My wife has a super sensitive nose so her experience was a little different. But for the average person, I seriously doubt the subway is even that big of a deal like you said. It smelled my the mechanic shop my dad worked at. Grease and metal. And maybe we didn’t hit a rush hour, but it wasn’t all that crowded either. I was a bit bummed no one was break dancing. Stupid youtube always lying to me.

            • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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              13 months ago

              I think there were crackdowns on the “Showtime kids” (aka the kids that dance on the train). A lot of people have no soul and get cranky about them. I mean, they’re mildly disruptive and probably occasionally fuck up, but it’s also only a couple minutes, and sometimes it’s pretty impressive.

      • @anachrohack@lemmy.world
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        13 months ago

        This is a gross simplification. Public transportation IS full of mentally ill people and the homeless, and lots of women feel unsafe on busses and trains. It’s not the rich who prefer personal vehicle transport; everyone does

        • @Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca
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          33 months ago

          Counterpoint, the highways are also full of mentally ill people and statistically it’s more risky to drive than take the bus / train.

          • @anachrohack@lemmy.world
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            13 months ago

            I think people fear violent death more than they fear accidental death. If american cities want more people to ride public transportation, they need to clean up public transportation. If you’ve been outside of the US you see how countries with far fewer resources than us do a lot more with their public transportation.

            They’re cleaner, less noisy, and the police will actually do something about antisocial behavior on the trains. Until we have something like that in thr US, I will avoid taking the bus

            • @InputZero@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              I think control has a lot to do with it as well. We feel better when we’re in control and on a subway you are most definitely not in control of the vehicle, or the people inside it. Regardless that it’s statistically safer than driving. I think people feel safer driving because they feel in control. Drivers can choose the route, who is in their vehicle, and when to stop. Those are things that we feel when we assess risk, even if it’s counter intuitive.

              • @anachrohack@lemmy.world
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                23 months ago

                Well it’s also way more convenient to drive in most places. Public transportation in most American cities doesn’t work well

            • @LaserRunRaccoon@lemmy.ca
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              Broken glass, fire, impalement, road rash, and being thrown around like a rag doll… thinking highway death isn’t violent is just a very fortunate lacking in imagination.

            • @Malfeasant@lemm.ee
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              23 months ago

              You know what really “cleans up” public transportation? More people riding it than just those who have no other choice. I grew up in Boston, lots of people rode the subway, I never felt unsafe. Now I live in Phoenix, the bus system sucks so bad I couldn’t even tell you what it feels like to ride one because I never have, anywhere I want to go would take at least 2 routes if not 3, with nearly an hour wait at each connection, I could seriously ride a bicycle there quicker, and have, even in 110°+ heat, at least in my younger days- damn near gave myself heat stroke last time I tried which was ~5 years ago… I have at least ridden the light rail, which isn’t terrible, but doesn’t run very frequently, and isn’t that close to my house, and doesn’t go that many interesting places… I could take the kids to the science center, but it’s a bit long for them to walk to our nearest stop, about a mile and a half… There’s a park & ride, but at that point, we might as well take the car…

        • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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          43 months ago

          That’s a very stretched definition of “full of”.

          Pre-pandemic I rode the subway to work every day. I’d see a handful of clearly unwell people on the train a week. I’d also see thousands of seemingly put-together people in that time. Is a milk jug full of milk and one jellybean full of jellybeans?

          I cannot speak authoritatively for women, but my understanding is most of the danger comes from men. Not mentally unwell people, not the homeless, just regular men. Being unwell or desperate doesn’t help, but it’s not the only source of danger.

          Furthermore, not everyone prefers personal vehicle transport. Maybe people prefer mass transit for a variety of reasons.

  • @PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de
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    183 months ago

    I’m more terrified of driving a car in a city than on a highway. In a city one small mistake can mean killing a child or something. On the highway I can go at a moderate speed in the right lane without distractions.

    Either way I prefer rails tho

    • @Wanpieserino@lemm.ee
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      83 months ago

      Already afraid of this on an e bike.

      Saw a mom walking on the road (next to a perfectly available sidewalk) with her small child following her 2 meters behind her.

      Fucking hell if that kid randomly ran to my side, I would have hit her.

      I hate this shit so much

      • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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        33 months ago

        I saw a car hit a teenager on a bike the other day. Dragged the kid a bit and then just sped off.

        Somehow the kid seemed fine. Got up and rode off after a moment.

        This was in Brooklyn, by Barclays center (a very crowded spot). Fuck cars and double fuck irresponsible turds that would drive off after nearly killing someone.

    • @pHr34kY@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      In my state, statistics show that there are more fatalities on rural roads than in metro areas… and 80% of us live in the metro areas.

      My car is 900kg with a straight-through muffler. No kid is going under it. Just don’t drive a tank through school zones.

  • Angry_Autist (he/him)
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    63 months ago

    I hate being within arms reach of people so fuck your subways and your neurotypical ease with dealing with ridiculously overstimulating stress-filled situations

    • @Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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      23 months ago

      I never thought I’d see this platform act like this towards someone with a disability, especially considering how many people here are likely on the spectrum.

      Honestly rotten behaviour.

      • Angry_Autist (he/him)
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        33 months ago

        My fear of being stabbed again isn’t 100% rational and won’t just go away because I cross an imaginary geographic line PEOPLE are insane, just the U.S. has a higher concentration

    • @mriormro@lemm.ee
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      153 months ago

      If you’re a regular subway rider or grew up riding one (such as my neurodivergent ass) you start to realize that you’re just a person in a sea of people on the train. The anonymizing actually helps with my anxiety.

        • @jenesaisquoi@feddit.org
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          13 months ago

          I’m really sorry this happened to you. I hope you are well and that nothing like this ever happens to you again.

        • @mriormro@lemm.ee
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          63 months ago

          Easy, just don’t look like someone who wants to get stabbed again!

          I’m joking, obviously. I’m really sorry that happened to you.

          • Angry_Autist (he/him)
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            43 months ago

            Appreciate it, thankfully it slid off my ribs and only needed stitches but that was nearly half a century ago and I still have to do a lot of mental prep work to sit down that close to strangers

            Also as for your ‘don’t look like a person who wants to get stabbed again’ line, I know you made it as a joke but statistically autists are targeted for violence by abusers and those abusers describe it all as visual cues that lead them to violence so maybe something to consider.

        • 74 183.84
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          13 months ago

          Are people really downvoting you for being stabbed?

          • Angry_Autist (he/him)
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            33 months ago

            It’s the typical ‘Terrible things never happen because they haven’t happened to me’ mentality

    • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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      33 months ago

      I’d rather you be uncomfortable in a subway sometimes than the entire world suffer from all the horrible things personal car ownership does.

      • Angry_Autist (he/him)
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        23 months ago

        Or you know, buses and trains for people that can handle them, and cars for people who can’t

        If you envision a world where no accommodation is made for those who struggle then you are not a person that should be in charge of anything

  • @boonhet@lemm.ee
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    33 months ago

    Where I live, half the year it’s painfully cold outside. Then in the summer we alternate between unbearable heat (because we’re not used to it) and torrents of rain recently.

    We also don’t have a subway system in any of our cities, have lower density cities because we don’t have a huge population in general, and have better driver education than much of the US.

    I realize it would be optimal for society for me to take public transit, but in these conditions I’d rather drive. And if I need to go somewhere close, walking is quicker than public transit (and in the winter, generates SOME heat. Standing around at a bus stop, not so much).

    I promise if I ever move to NYC, I’ll take the Subway when something is out of walking distance. I did when I visited. It was fine.

  • @gt5@lemm.ee
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    263 months ago

    I ride the subway all the time and haven’t been murdered yet. AMA

  • Ricky Rigatoni
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    413 months ago

    I’m terrified of riding the nyc subway because I don’t understand how it works amd I’ll get lost.

    • Scrubbles
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      43 months ago

      Just use your phone now, use transit directions. It’ll tell you exactly where to go. And if you go to the wrong place, you can always just go back

    • @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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      13 months ago

      Also, you only pay when you enter the system, and it’s a flat fee no matter how far you ride. So if you fuck up and get on the wrong train, just get out and get on the correct train. You don’t have to pay again until you actually leave the system. (I think there are some stations where you can’t change directions without exiting to the street and re-entering, but that’s pretty uncommon.)

    • @Willy@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      its really well designed and easy. with a smartphone, navigating the city is so easy I think a 10yo could do it. that said, my parents might have trouble, but only cause they get freaked out.

      • @AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        73 months ago

        I just looked at your metro map. As a San Diego resident, we need to step out game up. We barely have a trolley system compared to your subway.

    • @jenesaisquoi@feddit.org
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      13 months ago

      Trains go either this or that direction. Get on the train that goes the direction you want. Get out of the train when it is where you want to be. Done.

    • @Toribor@corndog.social
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      163 months ago

      I grew up on a farm, basically the rural part of a rural county in a rural state. When I visited San Diego I got on a bus going the wrong direction (which isn’t a thing I even realized you could do wrong). Ended up having to wait an hour for another bus in a sketchy part of town, at night, while in cosplay.

      Felt like that episode of SpongeBob where they get stuck at Rock Bottom.

      • @zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works
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        53 months ago

        I live in San Diego (well, in east county) and it’s particularly a mess here. The geography leads to no real structure, roads just sorta go where they can fit. This and a general lack of public transportation infrastructure means it’s easy to get lost or take forever to get where you’re going. Luckily it’s pretty safe, as cities go. We have a lot of unhoused folks but they’re just here for the weather. I’d rather be stuck downtown somewhere at night than out here in the rural SD area, buncha fuckin white supremacists are my neighbors

    • @sunflowercowboy@feddit.org
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      33 months ago

      It’s not really a choice for people. I get up at 3am and wait an hour for the bus just to be on time at 6am.

      Can’t do much and any job requires a license even if isn’t driving related - which instantly nullifies me if I use other acceptable forms of identification.

      Public transport is definitely safer, just more eventful. It’s nice when you enter a train that smells like fecal matter with a lady just eating a whole rotisserie chicken on the other side. It just follows the same guidelines as other public spaces, don’t be a nuisance and make yourself small. It becomes entertaining to have these stories.

      Some lady didn’t know to just shut up and complained nonstop about the shit on the floor. But then she made a comment about the lady and her chicken, it was small and innocuous. She then kept talking to the conductor.

      However, that is how you get slammed after you got stunned by some airborne rotisserie chicken.

      So it’s usually okay, just has rules like any house.

    • @ploot@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      53 months ago

      You can’t generalize about public transport across the whole of the USA. It’s very variable between different cities, and some have pretty good systems.

        • @chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          23 months ago

          You mentioned one of the better systems but still mentioned busses? All the more enjoyable public transportation I’ve been on in the US has been trains and subways. My bus experiences haven’t been that enjoyable, but not horrid either …except that one time I had to sit near the bathroom at the back.

          Still, train/subway experiences in Chicago and New York/New Jersey/ Long Island were vastly superior to driving for me. There’s also a new line going from Orlando to Miami my sister has been using that sounds wonderful. Unfortunately doesn’t really reach where I currently am, greater Atlanta area. Unfortunately I have to drive most of the time for work etc, with no subway lines or when trains from my home to work, and the traffic is terrible at times.

    • @olivecrest@lemm.ee
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      13 months ago

      Depends on the bus / area.

      There is real time bus tracking now in most places so you can see when things will arrive = WAY better for dealing with traffic (note traffic is a thing for cars as well)

      I’m in Portland OR and of course a bus going through a bad area is more likely to have people who are “not ok” (addicts) but the vast majority of our busses are clean and climate controlled and filled with perfectly lovely friendly people.

      And risk assessment is based on what is likely. My aunt smoked her whole life and never got lung cancer so my “personal experience” is that smoking doesn’t cause cancer. You see what I’m saying?

      Cars are more dangerous than busses. Period. You might not like them for any number of perfectly valid reasons, and a specific bus in a specific area might be more dangerous - but the point of the post is that personal preference and accurate risk assessment are not the same thing.

    • @turmoil@feddit.org
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      43 months ago

      Yeah, but LA has a shitty public transport system.

      Take a look at any major European city. Subway systems with a train interval of 2 minutes that get you across the whole city in 40 minutes max.