Update: it took time. And then a quick pry with a knife. Saved the dishes. Ravioli saved too but for raccoons outside probably lol. What I learned about physics…sheesh.
Cool one slightly while warming the other.
Probably sit the bowl in warm water with ice on the plate. That will increase the pressure inside and aide in the separation.
Would you want the opposite?
I thought heading the bowl will expand it slightly and increase the suction, cooling it will shrink it and reduce it.
Hot air expands and cold air contracts. You want the air in the bowl to be hot so it’s not creating negative pressure.
I did not think of that, thanks!
Its the same thing that happens with fridges and freezers. But they have become better at equaling the pressue.
PV=nRT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
Change in temperature (T) means a change in volume and/or pressure
The air inside is what is causing the vacuum heat the air, expansion, less vacuum. Cool the air, shrinks, more suction.
Heating both likely the smoothest solution.
Thanks! I had not factored that in
I could be wrong, but I really believe heating the bowl is the correct answer.
Why would you want to cool the plate?
You want to create expansion in one and shrinkage in the other so that you have movement that helps break the seal. Technically you could do one or the other, but it’ll create more net change if you do both.
No, warm the whole thing to heat the air inside
The McDLT solution
Put the whole thing in a pot of water and start bringing it to a slow simmer. This will warm the air inside, expanding it and breaking the suction. I got my stuck blender jar open this way, taking it out as soon as the first tiny bubble escaped and quickly unscrewing it before it could cool.
The power of suction is physically limited. That means it either isn’t suction or op is crazy weak. My guess is that the plastic melted (probably not from boiling Temp) or op is strongly exaggerating.
The power of suction is physically limited.
Someone has never heard of Delta P.
It’s delta p and not fraction p. The difference between ambient pressure and inner pressure (at least zero) is always smaller than ambient pressure. Delta p is therefore limited.
OK and? A difference of just 2 psi means that a bowl with diameter 4 in. (complete guess) is being held in place with ((4*π)=12.56*2)= 25 lbs of force distributed evenly across the surface of the plate.
A bigger bowl or greater suction changes these numbers dramatically. 2 psi on a 6 in. bowl is held in place with 37 lbs of force. 4 psi on a 6 in. bowl is held in place with 75 lbs of force.
Sure its “limited” in that there can only be a 14.7 pressure difference, but that doesn’t mean anything in terms of “this is really hard to undo”.
And if there’s oil or food or something sealing the gap between bowl and plate preventing the pressure from equalizing… fugheddaboudit.
I sadly don’t understand these units and your point is drained in it. The point I want to make is that the “force” of vacuum is limited by the difference of pressures.
You say it changes “drasticly” with area or suction but that is untrue. It changes linearly with area (not drastically) and pressure difference has a maximum. The maximum is defined by the pressure of the vacuum(=0) and the pressure of the ambient air (1 arm). Both are constant so the maximum is constant and actually not that big.
I could change all the units to potatoes and wombats and my point would still be valid. You are being intentionally obtuse to avoid admitting you’re wrong.
The delta P you’re talking about has much much higher ambient pressure than what is the case here.
And even underwater there is a limit to delta P.
yeah it’s probably electromagnetic force holding it on there or something
It’s God.
Could god microwave a ravioli bowl so hot even he couldn’t pry the plate off the top?
That stuck bowl of ravioli is slowly forming the next dominant species.
How can an ace be one and eleven? What kind of god would do that?
Take that Christians
That bowl and plate are all that keep this reality going
Air pressure is insanely high compared to a vacuum
The pressure acts over the area of contact. For a perfect vacuum it would lead to ~1kN of force. This is the same order of magnitude our muscles produce. If you take into account that the vacuum results from cooling over such a small temperature interval the force can’t be too high.
1kN is equivalent to lifting 100kg… 220lb for our imperial friends… I don’t think I could put that much force on a plate and bowl I was trying not to break
Your grip on a smooth plastic surface nearly parallel to the force vector you wish to apply is tiny, you cannot exert 1kN in this situation.
Got on to scroll on the clock , wasnt dissapointed
How do you figure suction is very limited? You’ve never tried to pull a suction cup straight off, have you? I’m not talking about when suction cups have bad sealing surfaces and slowly leak to the point of popping off or peeling suction cups off from a corner, I’m talking applying it to a good surface and then yanking it.
A shoddy 4.5" suction cup from Harbor Freight is rated at 80lbs carrying capacity for glass, which happens to likely be the same material as the dish (corelle), judging form the thinness. The bowl is probably plastic and had weight on it while these were hot and wet after washing. Please, let me know if you can lift an 80lb dumbell from the end with a single hand with ease.
The difference between ambient pressure and inner pressure is always smaller than ambient pressure. Delta p is therefore limited. The force comes from Delta p times contact area which is constant.
I sadly don’t know your units of mass but as I said a perfect vacuum over an area such as the Bowl is as strong as a muscle. The Ravioli will in no world produce a strong vacuum so muscle will win in most cases.
Here, I’ll do metric for you on your theory of muscle being equivalent perfect vacuum. I have some similar corelle dishes. The flat measures 10cm across. That’s 78. 5cm^2 area. Assuming OP lives at sea level, 1atm is 1.033kg/cm^2 which puts the total force at over 81kg. This bowl offers no horizontal surfaces to hook fingers under to utilize geometric advantages and is instead entirely dependent on friciton. If your fingertips can squeeze sideways with enough force to pull a smooth, tapered 81kg object without glue, there’s a gold bar in a Dubai mall with your name on it.
4 inches diameter, 12.6in^2, 180lbs for the Americans.
At some point between 0 and 81kg of force, I’d start worrying about breaking the plate with such little support around the rim. And, as for the impossibility of a perfect vacuum, I’d be easily convinced the bowl could have more than half of the maximum possible pressure differential. A large portion of the interior volume is probably ravioli, minimizing the gas volume. Ravioli are full of water, which means the remainder of gaseous volume in the bowl was probably mostly steam, pushing out the standard air. Steam has an insane compression ratio as it cools and condenses back into water, at about 1700:1. Go watch the video of a tank car imploding from steam condensation.
I cover my bowls the same way. I always cock the plate to the side for this exact reason. My 1L (4 cup) pyrex bowls with silicone lids can cave 1" if they’re allowed to cool for a minute. Steam easily vents from the rim as it’s produced but once it starts cooling, the weight of the lid or plate is plenty to get the initial seal
@FreeBeard separates evacuated Magdeburger hemispheres by hand.
/s
These are 50 cm wide half spheres. If you find that comparable to the situation in the picture your appetite must be enormous.
Rough guess works be 20cm diameter, so 16% of the force required.
And as opposed to the Magdebutger hemispheres, these objects don’t come with handles for good grip.
I’m gonna need an update when OP does the hot bowl trick, I wanna know if it worked
I pryed it open with a knife. Eventually. And wasted the ravioli.
Plastic bowl. Squeeze it.
Hot air cooled, contracted, and created partial vacuum is my guess. Make it hot again and it will unstick, I bet.
I was gonna suggest just running hot tap water over it for a few minutes until the air inside expanded enough.
Or chuck it in the freezer!
And shrink the air more?
Yeah, everyone knows that ceramic has more thermal reactivity than air, so the plate will slide right off /s
No, but the items will get slightly smaller, eventually making an air gap you geniuses.
You do this with crankshafts for example, to get the bearings off so I’m not pulling stuff out of my behind.
Yeah but those are different alloys with different thermal expansion and a significantly larger temperature differential and a friction fit, this is a vacuum issue
Seems OP sorted it out without your help so yeah …
I have no idea what I’m looking at. Wth is a ravioli bowl? A bowl made specifically for ravioli?
Bowl of ravioli, my bad
were you able to free the raviolis
No one is going to mention that OP has a bowl specifically for ravioli?
Well how do you cook ravioli? In your fettuccine bowl?
Pour it onto a dish rag and microwave it? I thought this was common knowledge?
…in a pot?
But which pot?
Not my oatmeal pot, or the spaghetti pot
Definitely not the macaroni pot
These jokes about different pots for each meal are funny until you live with a hoarder for awhile who must have enough pots to cook each food in its own (even though they use the same pot or pan for everything they cook). Ugh it sucked lol
Obviously you need to consider how much ravioli you’re making when choosing which ravioli pot to take down from your ravioli pot shelf.
Ew, what’s wrong with you
I think it’s just a bowl currently full of ravioli
No issues with either one of these options tbh
I’m confused why there is a plate involved at all.
I would guess he had the plate over the bowl, while he was microwaving it, to prevent the little sauce splatters during heating.
I hope OP learned to use a paper/dish towel from now on if that’s the case lmao
That really sucks.
Heat it to make the air expand
an hour of prying
After that much work you should leave is as-is on your coffee table as an art/conversation piece.
Pick which one to save and which one to sacrifice. Smash the sacrifice with a hammer to free the other, break them both and realize this is just so like you and every single thing you try to do starts with a half baked plan, then goes off the rails and ruins everything until you’ve nothing to do but pick up the pieces.
I’m the kind of person who reads step 1, does it, and then goes on to read step 2. I’m happy I’m not OP.
Assuming its empty, i would take the grog oggah boogah solution of smash the blue plastic bowl down the edge of your countertop. Something will give sometime.
Otherwise, did you try twisting the bowl one direction and the plate the other? Torque is typically a more effective force than pulling for friction.
UPDATE PLEASE. I must know the fate of the dishes.
It has been 6 hours since OP created the ravioli black hole that will eventually consume our planet. I think of all the wasted years I spent worrying as oblivion heads my way.
OP pls….
OP responded that he microwaved bowl and plate, and that some plastic melted and fused them both.
@[email protected] - can we get an after picture?
edit: context: https://programming.dev/post/28471691/16271644
I don’t think I’m your guy haha. I do not have a ravioli bowl unfortunately.
Thank you! I was WAY too invested in this!
