AOC and Bernie should just start their own party and drive the establishment democrats out if business.
I’m pushing for this every day. It’s our only way out of this.
I agree. Both democrats and republicans pledge allegiance to capitalism above all else. This simply is not sustainable.
This is also why education and historical literacy is so important. If more people knew how that America is only successful because of (majority) socialist policies like the New Deal and Great Society then there will be more widespread support for a reinvigoration of them.
I think legacy media and centralized social media have dumbed down our populace to a point that they don’t even realize there is a way out. Everyone in the 99% stands to benefit from radical change.
What percentage of the American population are progressive? Please provide a reliable source for your information. And please don’t provide something nebulous and without meaning like “75% of Americans support random progressive policy”. Those polls show aggrement with a policy, not a desire to change current policy.
This is the crux of it, American’s have shown us time and again they are centrist/center left at best. These folks are so trapped in their ideological bubbles that they cannot fathom their extreme outlier position, small wonder that there is so much accelerationist language of late.
Compromise is taboo and so any candidate that has agitated inside the system for change ends up verboten.I don’t care how many people are progressive, at this point it’s the only thing i will vote for. I saw how the Democratic Party acted after losing, and i am talking about all of it, not just pathetic signs and admonishing people speaking truth to power. I will not vote for establishment again no matter what the options are.
I don’t care how many people are progressive, at this point it’s the only thing i will vote for.
Yeah, that’s about what I expect from Lemmy leftists.
Ok
https://www.dataforprogress.org/polling-the-left-agenda
https://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/trump-wins-while-americans-vote-for-progressive-policies/
https://www.citizen.org/news/progressive-policies-are-popular-policies/
https://yipinstitute.org/article/analyzing-popularity-of-progressive-views
While several moderate Democrats accused and blamed progressives like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for the loss of 12 seats in the House of Representatives and the Warnock/Ossoff ticket being the deciding factor for the fate of the Senate, all House Democratic candidates in swing districts who endorsed Medicare for All had won their races, with none of the incumbent Democrats who lost their reelection supporting it. In addition, only one of the 93 co-sponsors of the Green New Deal lost to their challenger. This brings up the question: Are progressive ideas actually popular? Did progressives actually win last year?
Throughout the campaigning process for the 2020 election, Republicans focused hard to smear and misrepresent their Democratic opponents using terminology like “socialism,” “radical,” and “defund the police” to define them. One would think that these more progressive policies only appeal to the younger generation of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren supporters. But, newer research conducted reveals surprising results.
An Ipsos poll showed that, in 2020, 46% of Republicans and 72% of Democrats would support a universal basic income of $1000 per month (some may remember this being a distinctive characteristic during Andrew Yang’s candidacy). A study by Pew Research Center indicated that a majority of Americans, and especially lower class Republicans, agree with raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Even in the battleground state of Florida, which went to Donald Trump in 2020, passed this same measure on their ballot with 61% of voter support. On Election Day, Fox News aired results of their voter analysis exit poll. One finding was that 72% of participants either somewhat or strongly favor a government-run health care plan, with 29% in opposition. Another 72% of viewers responded that they are somewhat to very concerned about climate change’s effects, having 28% disagreeing. Finally, 70% favor increasing spending toward renewable energy, with 31% against it. Results to other questions summarized that a majority of respondents want the government to do more, think racism is a serious problem in the U.S., support a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and want the Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v Wade to be left as is. A poll by Student Defense, the Defend Students Action Fund, and Data for Progress revealed that 67% of those who participated “support some form of widespread student loan forgiveness - whether it is universal, tied to income, or based on specific program eligibility,” with 58% of Republicans among that support (Forbes).
More than you’d think are progressive. But, I’m not claiming we need a progressive party - anything left of center is better than what the Democrats offer.
These people are co-workers and collaborators. That’s why we don’t have universal healthcare or a green new deal. It’s why we have fascism.
In a vacuum like this using the best and worst (dumbest?) example from each party.
But both parties as a whole serve the interest of capital. Their methods might be different. Their indirect/direct use of violence might be different. But they serve the same people with the same interest. AOC and Bernie are even saying that now. They’ve been criticizing the democratic party at all of their events.
Can the liberals stop pretending we can vote our way out of facism and please fucking join us on the left. Fucking please.
Fascism is here. Due process is gone. First amendment is gone. If you’re waiting to vote again you’re no different than someone in Russia thinking they can vote Putin out of power.
Grab a pitchfork (metaphorically speaking) and get organized.
Join PSL or DSA or anyone in your area resisting ICE. Now. Do it now.
Edit: For every downvote please comment with a different organization resisting ICE and organizing locally. Because if it’s just criticism of the groups that ARE resisting it’s not helping. Give people an alternative. I would LOVE people just listing groups that are resisting ICE in your area or nationally. Because that’s all I want.
Edit: For every downvote please comment with a different organization resisting ICE and organizing locally. Because if it’s just criticism of the groups that ARE resisting it’s not helping. Give people an alternative. I would LOVE people just listing groups that are resisting ICE in your area or nationally. Because that’s all I want.
They can’t and won’t. Thought terminating cliche to deflect from the idea that electoralism isn’t good enough. We can’t vote our way out of this, but the rich want us to think that way. Brainwashed masses think Trump will let himself out of office beyond a casket.
Weird how every time someone suggests doing something outside of filling bubbles on paper every 2/4 years, it’s an evil act. But mass murder, prison-industrial complex, the normalized mass poverty of everyone is justified and accepted.
Join PSL
Ah yes, “Palestinian genocide is bad but Ukrainian genocide is good”
That’s exactly the problem. I hate the Democrats as much as the Republicans, but the DSA is so full of tankies I want nothing to do with them either. There is literally no party in this country for people like me.
PSL is full of tankies. DSA, at least in my experience, is filled with idealists who don’t seem to connect ‘results’ with ‘actions’, but their heart is generally in the right place.
Their head, on the other hand, can lead them to bizarre choices like “Unendorsing AOC for being insufficiently pro-Palestine”
Her and Bernie have been insufficiently pro Palestine. To the degree of negligible support of the genocide. To the point of distancing themselves from Ilhan Omar. I think they rightfully know they made a mistake in an attempt to be strategic though. Which they are backtracking on now.
The reason these organizations (DSA/PSL) exist is to move politics to the left. If you criticize them for every attempt to do so. You are literally just contributing to the Ratchet Effect of US politics. That type of milk toast politics from “the left” in the democratic party did not prevent us from getting to where we are today.
The Democrats did everything to do exactly what you are advocating for and surprise surprise we are here in full out fascism today. Maybe try to listen to those a bit to the left of you. We literally warned that this centrist politics would end this way.
But somehow we’re being blamed for it. Even though at every turn the Democrats prevented Palestinian voices and ran on “building the wall”.
The reason these organizations (DSA/PSL) exist is to move politics to the left. If you criticize them for every attempt to do so. You are literally just contributing to the Ratchet Effect of US politics. That type of milk toast politics from “the left” in the democratic party did not prevent us from getting to where we are today.
Ah yes, moving politics to the left will really be served by turning on one of the leftmost and most pro-Palestine politicians currently in Congress.
The leftist urge to sabotage the left for being insufficiently left seems to be timeless. Keep putting fascists in power, I guess. It’s not like I can stop you. God knows I tried.
The Democrats did everything to do exactly what you are advocating for and surprise surprise we are here in full out fascism today. Maybe try to listen to those a bit to the left of you. We literally warned that this centrist politics would end this way.
What am I advocating for, again?
Keep accusing everyone who doesn’t think that electing fascists is left praxis of being neolibs. It’s all you lot have at this point.
Yeah when ICE is taking away my neighbors I always make sure to vet my resistance groups to make sure they have my same exact view on a conflict between two oligarch controlled nations. /s
I don’t agree with Anarchist groups politically. But I sure as hell will stand in solidarity with them against fascism. If you sit by looking for the “politically pure” form of resistance to fascism you will always sit on a “holier than thou” fence of Liberalism.
I don’t agree with PSL or DSA on everything. But what I do agree with is resisting ICE and fascism.
Are you doing something? Because maybe just talk to someone from PSL or DSA and actually just get info from the actual organizer’s. Not some sweaty dude on Twitter.
Just go talk to someone. But don’t just lie about an entire organization of people in a reddit comment and feel ok with watching more and more people getting black bagged.
I don’t care if it’s PSL, DSA, or your local anarchist bike gang. Just find something you can help with and resist. Stop making excuses because some sweaty Trotskyist like to be edgy on your timeline. Go outside.
When we resist fascism we can talk about the different degrees of being a leftist. But holy fuck this is not the time to do nothing.
Yeah when ICE is taking away my neighbors I always make sure to vet my resistance groups to make sure they have my same exact view on a conflict between two oligarch controlled nations. /s
Thanks for proving the point that you don’t give a shit about Ukrainian genocide.
But I sure as hell will stand in solidarity with them against fascism. If you sit by looking for the “politically pure” form of resistance to fascism you will always sit on a “holier than thou” fence of Liberalism.
God. The irony.
When we warned you that ICE was going to end up empowered by a Trump regime, what you lot said was “Liberals are too impure!”
Now you want infinite solidarity, when you were willing to offer none.
Thanks but no thanks, I’ll resist with a group that isn’t pro-genocide. Isn’t that, after all, what you lot were so insistent on?
Unlike you lot, though, if it comes down to me having a choice only between one of your shithead pro-genocide groups or the fascists, I will bite the bullet and support you.
But don’t expect me to come running to support putting bullets in the heads of Ukrainian civilians and kidnapping hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children because “Ukraine’s government is too right-wing, so it doesn’t matter!” Unless utter pro-genocide imperialist-supporting minority-murdering cunts like the PSL are the only realistic game in town, you’re getting 0 support from me.
I don’t care if it’s PSL, DSA, or your local anarchist bike gang. Just find something you can help with and resist. Stop making excuses because some sweaty Trotskyist like to be edgy on your timeline. Go outside.
What’s the PSL doing, again, other than posturing?
When we resist fascism we can talk about the different degrees of being a leftist. But holy fuck this is not the time to do nothing.
No, apparently the time to do nothing was when preventing fascism was at its easiest. Now that fascism has been handed all levers of power, we must resist, in suitably non-specific ways.
This is the response of someone with a false comfort in thinking they’ll come for you last. I said my peace.
If you’re not doing anything on the ground to resist ICE then you should. That’s my point.
I’m not gonna argue anything more than that. Name me an organization resisting ICE that you would advocate for. I’d love to list more names in the future. What organization can I list that doesn’t get labeled as a “Tankie” of “Muslim Terrorist” organization from you?
Please. Please give me a group I can list for people like you to go outside?
Please give people reading this comment thread an alternative. Please. Because otherwise your criticism helps no one.
I don’t care if it’s PSL, DSA, or a Harley Davidson motorcycle gang. If you’re not advocating FOR some form of resistance and only criticizing the ones that exist. You are supporting ICE in your inaction while asking others to be inactive as well.
This is the response of someone with a false comfort in thinking they’ll come for you last.
lmao
I’m not gonna argue anything more than that.
Clearly you did, though. You preferred to argue that Ukrainian genocide doesn’t matter because Ukraine is ‘oligarch controlled’. Presumably Palestinian genocide doesn’t matter since Hamas is also ‘oligarch controlled’. You also said that the position of a resistance group on genocide doesn’t matter - presumably this means you’re willing to unite with Zionists against American fascism? Or is solidarity only mandatory when it’s about ignoring the genocides you support?
Please. Please give me a group I can list for people like you to go outside?
I’m involved in local groups. They’re a bunch of ‘shitlibs’ to you lot, no doubt, but considering your primary form of praxis is ensuring that fascists get elected wherever and whenever you can, I’m not sure that your opinions really count for much.
List the organizations please. People would benefit from that. That’s all I’m trying to do in this comment thread. Im not gonna engage in your derailment and false comparisons.
Your criticism was of PSL. And my point is that people should go organize and actually learn from the people in these organizations. Your comment only serves to keep people from organizing. It doesn’t give an alternative. Give an alternative.
List the organizations please.
Unless I wanted to dox my location, that’d be unwise. I can, however, recommend your local scawwy Dem clubs for resources, as well as your local ACLU chapter for how to get involved in ways that are meaningful, even if no one throws a molotov cocktail (or pretends that they will, eventually, someday). And maybe you’ll meet up with folks you can make serious plans with in the process.
Or you can LARP and do nothing of substance to people who actually need your help in this trying time - legal, economic, and medical resources.
That’s all I’m trying to do in this comment thread. Im not gonna engage in your derailment and false comparisons.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. Your only conception of ‘solidarity’ is ‘everyone agrees with me and no one dissents; otherwise, I’ll support fascists’, and ‘Everything I say is objectively correct; I have no obligation to acknowledge anyone else’s viewpoint’.
But hey, at least you can continue being utterly ineffective just like the past 70 years of leftists in this country. Maybe, if we ever emerge from this fascist hellscape, you can kneecap the next leftist candidate that’s put forward for being insufficiently pure and murder a few million more minorities in the process. After all, they matter less than your need to feel pure, right?
Not that republicans are way worse at it, but democrats do much more than a sufficient job when it comes to bombing arab countries. No one can compete with Obama bombs or genocide Joe.
I’d argue that Nancy Pelosy is more representative of the dems than AOC.
Well, I’d argue Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals, which most of us are not.
I’d even argue is Nancy even a dem at this point she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.
You know “centrist” is not a political party, right? Fuckin kids these days, what are they teaching you…
Literally nothing considering I’m an adult these days. But how’s being a smug ass hat been going for ya?
Better than not being one, I guess
Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals
Yes which is much closer to who the Dems are representing as a whole
No, based upon the popularity of policies, AOC is FAR closer to representing normal people than more conservative democrats like Pelosi are?
There is a reason people hate centrist corporate democrats, it is because they don’t even pretend to push policies people desperately need.
people hate centrist corporate democrats
Then why do we keep electing them in primaries?
That’s fair I’d agree with it.
That’s a funny take. The former speaker of the house who hand selected her replacement and was the leader of the Democratic caucus for more than a decade, and you’re basically calling them a DINO
MAGA regularly calls Mitch McConnell a RINO. Why should we handle Nancy any differently?
Right, lol. I guess the other user thought they had me in some sort of gotcha moment.
You guys are so right, maga does it, that means it’s correct
/S
It means that a true Democrat or Republican is one who represents the views of their constituents. Not who holds the reins of power in their respective parties. This is a valid definition.
I don’t believe that is a valid definition. A good politician is someone who represents the views of their constituents. A true Democrat (or whatever party) is someone who represents the views of the party. The views of the party may be influenced by party candidates on behalf of their constituents, but those views are decided upon by a group of people that aren’t elected by a public ballot and have no obligation to democratic voters. If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party (but we’re kinda fucked with that right now). If you’re talking about who represents the views of the democratic party, it’s difficult to find someone who represents them better than Pelosi.
While Nancy’s actual politics may be more centrists than dem, shes still one of the old guards that must go away for any actual change in the party.
Dems are centrists.
Dems are a far right party that only look centrist if you squint looking at them from inside fascist crazy town.
To basically anyone in the developed world, of which we are not, Luigi murdered a mass murderer, to any fascist or neoliberal here, we have to let murderers for profit let the free market decide who gets life saving healthcare, as just 1 of innumerable examples.
Neoliberals don’t squee like little girls at the hello kitty store when people suffer and die needlessly when it facilitates private profit as the Fascists do, but they don’t see it as the social fabric betrayal and atrocity it is either. “free market forces, mr dying homeless person, but I support your right to die in the gutter of hunger and exposure as any identity you choose!” Because it’s free to, but people need their basic survival met first, and that takes resources that go to them and not the robber barons that pay off both parties.
agreed. In context, they’re centrists for the States. Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world but considered extreme here by corporate media and the other government clowns.
Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world
When people say dumbass shit like this it makes me wonder what part of the world they are talking about.
All of Africa: right wing compared to America
Most of South America: right wing compared to America
Pretty much all of Asia: right wing compared to America
Middle East: lmao
Russia: lmao
Europe: about 70% right wing or similar to America with a handful of countries that might be considered left wing maybe but are sliding right as well.
The British Commonwealth: about the same as America except for the healthcare aspect.
Maybe you consider Antarctica left wing? Maybe the Oceans? Maybe the only part of the world that exists to these idiots are uber white Aryan nordic countries only? Or maybe you live in a fantasy dimension and are somehow communicating to us through a wormhole via Lemmy.
Europe is absolutely not as you describe. That’s what the media feeds you in North America.
The Dems are centrists. They always have been.
I totally agree with you she must go, she’s part of the let’s maintain the status quo dems.
she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.
And that perfectly represents the party as a whole.
Sounds like you don’t know what a Dem is
The centers of both parties are functionally allies, the power structure of the Democratic party despises the kind of progressive politics AOC and Bernie do far more than the Republicans they claim to oppose even when those Republicans are literal out in the open fascists. Chuck Shumer is exhibit A and will become a historical touchstone for discussions about how neoliberalism always in the end sets up the conditions for fascism and then pathetically collapses in the crucial moment of resistance against fascism.
Fuck that, both parties need to go, how many times has the Democratic party laughed in the face of Bernie as they blatantly undermined him?
No, I treat Republicans as an existential threat, which means I also logically see the entrenched power structures of the Democrats that are happy to lose to Republicans rather than evolve, as an existential threat.
Pelosi is a Democrat through and through, AOC and Bernie are Democrats because they have no choice in the status quo.
The progressives need a build a new party before we destroy the existing ones.
Says who?
Anyone who wants to exist under a non-fascist government?
The bi partisan police state and Military Industrial Complex existed before Trump ever took public office.
We are past that point already?
So what? That does not negate the stated want.
A fair point.
I would point, however, to that emphasizing the need to create a progressive party, rather than prioritizing the destruction of the now-castrated Dems.
The entrenched power structure is always going to narrativize a genuine alternative to the Democratic party as harsh toned leftists destroying things to destroy things, so if you are afraid of that in your rhetoric (even if you end up supporting more reform like policies in the end) you are already making it incredibly easy to be walked all over by people that resist all change.
No, the strategy is to go for the throat of the DNC and happily back off when they realize you aren’t messing around and give material concessions to the people they are supposed to represent. This is why the tea party was unfortunately successful, now is when the left does our version.
If that breaks the Democratic party in the process, that is their fault for building a house of cards indifferent to the suffering of people in the US.
Common sense.
Weak response, provide evidence that trying to reform the Democratic party is a better strategy.
They will not change their strategy, the organization is structurally incapable of it, how much more proof do you need?
Maga fundamentally changed the Republican Party but you’re saying the progressives are unable to do the same?
Why wouldn’t they be able to?
Because they weren’t afraid of change before we are “ready for it” like you are, which is the only reason the tea party worked. They were willing to tear everything down if it wasn’t working, and that made the rest of the Republican party blink.
Your strategy is exactly the kind of political pushback people like Shumer and Pelosi prefer, because it is strategically ineffectual at threatening their power.
Weird how evolution takes time.
Actually one of the biggest arguments in geology/evolutionary biology is whether evolution tends to be a slow, continous steady process or whether it happens in explosive spurts seperated by periods of little evolution.
There is abundant evidence that both happens, so your metaphor is tenous at best.
The best measure of how unelectable a politician is how much Lemmy likes them.
POSIWID
I made a ven-diagram to help explain
Real good effort, but it’s missing a chunk of “what they actually do” that’s not part of “what they say they want”. And there’s too much overlap between “what the donors want” and “literally just opposing fascism”. Cuz at some point that would entail cooling it a bit with the neoliberal economics driving regular people into misery for slightly better profits.
At a certain point, fascism is bad for business, so I can imagine a small overlap there.
Yeah but the business heads always convince themselves they can still fly a little closer to the sun on that one.
True.
You do have to wonder if Republican voters are aware of what demographic controls Israel.
Fascists? Yeah I think they’re pretty aware.
It’s the same reason nazi’s love isreal. It’s a real ethno-state.
“nazi’s love Israel”… Fucking clown
I admit it’s absurd. But that’s the world we’re living in buddy.
Anyone that has to hear “the two parties are not the same” is too stupid to change their tiny little mind and recognize it.
I once got a death threat here on lemmy for suggesting that democrats were better than Republicans. That was interesting to say the least
You’re not wrong. Apparently the truth stung someone pretty hard.
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Sure, one “party” is fascist and the other “party” is collaborators. Lots of differences to point out there.
Yawn.
Yet another goon who hasn’t bothered looking up both party’s voting history or criminal conviction history.
Do your homework.
He did do his homework. He’s not saying this shit out of ignorance but out of malice. He’s a Russian shill.
You begin to recognize the usernames.
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I’m guessing you’re not a native English speaker?
No, I just misread the first time. Fair enough.
Boost’ user tagging feature has made my Lemmy experience so much better. The tag pops out so it’s the first thing I notice before even reading the reply so I know to prepare myself and not take it seriously if it’s tagged as a troll or whatever. Easier than remembering who said what in previous posts.
🤮 this got me to try it out and there’s banner ads at the bottom of every post
Voyager has tagging too, and it’s ad-free!
Oh, that’s awesome! It didn’t when I switched from it to boost, otherwise I would’ve stuck with that.
Ah, dunno about that, sorry. Been using it for a few years, since it was also a reddit app and I just paid for the ad free version
Both parties are certainly not the same, however both parties have a lot of the same interests. The truth is establishment Democrats have very little personal reason to fight back against these insane right wing policies because they personally benefit from them; and that is the singular truth that makes our current political climate so dangerous.
While they don’t have any reason too fight back however, they also will not generally propose these policies. They just won’t block them, so the solution is simple, prevent these policies from being proposed.
However lots of people want to see the world in black and white and just want to conflate concepts like this with something that has no nuance to it like “both parties are the same” and blindly parrot that statement without stopping to analyze what it’s really talking about and that’s a huge issue since it disenfranchises more vulnerable people. I suspect blanket statements like this are likely a large contributor to the US’ low voter participation, and i wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them originated from foreign influence.
They have to live with the fact they didn’t vote as the next Hitler takes hold, it’s also the only thing their stupid little minds can use to go on without acknowledging their conscience that wants them to yeet themselves out a window.
They have to live with the fact they didn’t vote as the next Hitler takes hold,
They think Thalmann did nothing wrong, so if anything, they celebrate that they didn’t vote as the next Hitler takes hold.
Democrats are literally controlled-opposition
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Considering that Liberals are literally right wingers (Political Science 101) masquerading as leftists, yeah you are turds in every way.
We actually agree on something
Can we stop putting AOC and Sanders as Democrats please. At least these two are vocal.
Sanders is not even a member of the Democratic Party.
AOC is an official representing the democratic party, and Sanders is a regestered independent
I’m so fucking tired of this argument.
It’s the same fucking bullshit loop every goddamned time. Somebody will say that the two parties are “the same” clearly meaning "the same in [this] particular sense, and then the pedantic assholes will all come swooping in and start nattering on about how that’s completely wrong because they’re not absolutely 100% identical.
Here’s a fucking news flash for all you binaristic pinheads - there are more than two possibilities. We aren’t just limited to “they’re 100% the same” and “they’re not the same at all.” It’s not only possible but certain fact that they ARE the same in many, many ways, and the fact that they’re not the same in ALL ways doesn’t change that.
Anyone who can’t envision more than two diametrically opposed possibilities is a fucking moron, and I’m sick and tired of this argument being driven by fucking morons.
Agreed.
The notion of “both sides are the same” is a leftist critique that points out how both parties were long ago bought out and captured by special interests. The people hammering on this idea are especially critical at how, during the 2024 election, when the Democratic establishment was faced with a choice between bowing down to Israel and mitigating full-blown fascism, they chose to bow down to to Israel, commit genocide, and embarrassingly hand yet another win to Trump. All for them sweet AIPAC dollars.
Sure, AOC, the democrat’s shining star of progressivism, has different policy positions than MTG, of the right’s most outward and frothing fascists, but talk about a low bar… It’s akin to saying “how can you say both parties are the exact same when one has a donkey mascot and one has an elephant? A donkey is not the same as an elephant - check and mate, tankie”
Weaselly bullshit.
“Both sides are the same” isn’t some fucking Leftist code that actually means some other thing. You meant what you goddamn said.
Example:
“Republicans are corrupt weasels.”
“Democrats are the same.”
I see only three options there. Either:
- You understand and admit that they mean “the same” in the sense of “also corrupt weasels.”
- You’re a liar
- You’re a moron.
I think it’s also selfishness. These dumbasses are still comfortable in life and so refuse to take off their blinders.
Nowhere in history have things gotten better by simply waiting.
But because things aren’t bad for them it’s not a problem.
The ole “First They Came” in action.
Agreed. Their progressive Renaissance is always just one presidency away, and they will perpetually sacrifice however many Palestinians it takes to bide themselves time.
In other words, they will keep throwing bodies into the blood machine that is the American political experiment in hopes of a progressive renewal that will never happen. There is no red line for them - that is, a point where they’d consider “damn, we are fucking shit up heavy for the whole world, and we have a duty to tear ourselves down”.
It can be - certainly.
One of the basic dynamics of partisan politics, and one of the main reasons that parties decline, is that people wear a party label as a substitute for more meaningful action.
In this case, people who want to project an image of progressivism without actually doing anything practical to advance the cause adopt (or adopted - more so in the past) the “Democrat” label as a way to signal their progressivism. The fact that they wear the label is then folded into their self -image - they can be proud that they’re progressive, because after all, they’re Democrats, which proves it.
One problem though is that that only works as long as the Democrats are seen to be progressive. If they’re no longer seen that way, then by extension the party faithful are themselves no longer progressive either.
So effectively, a criticism of the party is a criticism of the individual, so they have a vested interest in defending the party from criticism.
I think it’s also selfishness. These dumbasses are still comfortable in life and so refuse to take off their blinders.
lol. lmao.
Nowhere in history have things gotten better by simply waiting.
Surprisingly, nowhere in history have things gotten better by refusing to do the bare minimum of preventing authoritarians from coming into power because you want to cosplay revolution, and then failing to even cosplay revolution after the authoritarians come in.
Lord.
Dude, let them feel great for voting for the lesser evil. It’s not like they are not making any difference in the long run. At least they are contributing to perpetuate this historical tradition of bipartisan dominance.
If they are “the same in this particular sense” then use that language instead. In no other context do people use the phrase “these are the same” meaning “these have something in common.” I wouldn’t defend the phrase “Galas and Fijis are the same” because of their similarities any more or less than if I were to compare apples and oranges. I’d say they’re both apples or they’re both fruit or any number of specific descriptors that they actually share.
It seems to me that if people are using this language as you suggest then they should communicate more clearly, or, more likely, this isn’t what they mean.
If only the democrats actually listened to AOC and Sanders.
But they don’t.
Oh I’m sure they’ll listen to them right up until the point where they find another member of the Clinton family that hasn’t had their turn yet.
Chelsea Clinton’s available! :/
Chelsea/Hunter 2028. Might as well just build the gas chambers now.
Nah, they’re going to run another candidate who can finally appeal to Republicans, one who has bipartisan experience, having run in the past on both sides of the aisle. Say hello to 2028 Democratic presidential nominee David Duke!
Alternatively they’ll give Hilary another crack at it, with Chelsea has her running mate.
“Clinton-Clinton 2028: How badly do you want the Fascists out?”
“But what if we compromised with them and our donors, and then compromised with the Republicans, and then put on our shocked pikachu face when the Republicans don’t compromise with us in turn???”
Legit, the second half of the problem is related to our gerontocracy. These fucking dinosaurs are still acting like it’s the 1970s and 1980s, when they first came to power.
Yeah for sure AOC represent Democrats 😂😂😂. They are all behind her and sure will let her run for primary and win like they did with Bernie Sanders. LMAO
Did Bernie not run in the primary? I remember him having his ass handed to him in my state.
I phone banked for him on his 2 most possible runs. He’s way too old. AOC is the only half decent insider option in all of DC now.
After a lifetime of voting for the lesser evil to make the ship sink a little slower, voting blue from Kerry to Harris in the general after primarying for the most leftwing candidate available, and feeling dirty every time, either they can give me a candidate that isn’t actively choking as they fellate oligarch dick, or I’ll watch it all burn from home.
I guess from my perspective you still realised they were still the lesser of two evils. You are right the system is fucked and the Democrats did not do enough to change the status quo particularly in terms of correcting the wealth disparity we see now.
Let’s hope the US actually have a chance at another fair election with a candidate you deserve because as it looks right now everyday the current fascist regime that is Trump administration moves towards a future where you may not get that chance.
Democrats simply have no levers to pull to make wholesale changes. I remember Hillary attempting to engage with healthcare reform during her time as First Lady and being pilloried for it. Obama’s administration couldn’t muster nearly enough votes to enact single-payer healthcare and had to opt for a market based solution that just eked through congress, only to be lambasted by the modern left for it.
Many around these parts act as if Democrats can just enact reforms by fiat and do not answer to a largely centrist, if not conservative, constituency. A cursory examination shows this has never been the case; the center/left has always had to govern via consensus.
Now “leftists” are eating their own to a degree that leaves me often suspecting that many are little more than poorly disguised MAGA adherents bleating accelerationist nonsense. This thread and any other like it is replete with these moans of surrender, and who can be surprised? Organizing takes much more effort than vomiting into a keyboard and these folks are by and large too lazy to suss out an understanding of recent history, instead choosing to repeat the same canards (see: the conspiracy theory of independent Bernie being cheated in lieu of not being able to come close to winning the Democratic primary.)
Does nobody remember Biden and Warren splitting the Bernie vote or
IMHO it was more Warren splitting Sanders’ vote even though she knew she would lose. The establishment dems wanted Biden.
These are wildly opposite and anyone who says AOC isn’t a real representation of DNC must also find a more GOP aligned member, like Mike Johnson or Steve Scalise. They are despicable but not all-caps-tweets kind of despicable.
AOC is the only representation of the DNC. Hope she unseats Schumer, becomes leader of the democratic party, and down the line runs for President. She will be the best president America have had.
I do not hope she runs for President next time though, as my thoughts of Americans are very low, and i believe them to be too bigoted to vote for her yet. yet.
Agree on most things but “Best President” is hard to beat when two Roosevelts are the leaders for being the most progressive. Fuck, we may never see a president again who can do so much for social causes and the People as Teddy Roosevelt did. He crushed corporate monopolies, built up the FDA from nothing, and established National Parks as a way to stop business from eating up our shared land’s natural resources.
