“Homegrown criminal” off to El Salvador with you! Right Donny? Right?!
Who could have seen this coming
Weird how that keeps happening.
I want to stress that it has absolutely nothing, I repeat, nothing at all to do with gun “culture” and easy access to guns.
Nothing at all. Promise!
/s
Unfortunately I think it runs deeper than guns being around. As people point out, nearly every house in Switzerland has a gun, but they have little gun violence.
Though you’re right that America’s loose gun culture makes the underlying problem ten times worse.
nearly every house in Switzerland has a gun, but they have little gun violence.
Totally different situation because most of these guns are from reservists in the army which are stored without ammo. So they are literally unusable unless you happen to get ammo for it.
Right, that’s one reason why it’s different.
And they are held responsible for the weapon. And they leave it in a secure storage until they need it for training or to defend the country.
Yes culture is a big part I think too, and the availability, can you just go up to a stand at a gun expo and buy a gun in Switzerland? I don’t think so right?
No. That gun is government issued, and you are responsible for its secure storage. It it not for playing around, and you don’t get any ammo with it. The ammo will be distributed in case the country needs to be defended.
That makes the whole idea that “there are lots of guns in Switzerland, but no shootings” worthless if you can’t buy bullets.
“Nothing we can do about it, says the only nation in the world where this happens regularly”
The Onion should copy the White House and just start scribbling through the mass shooting article headline they repost each time with red crayon.
And his mom is a police officer.
And he used one of her unsecured guns.
In a system where we want to discourage this we need to hold the parents accountable.
I think a life sentence for each life her son took is fair, for her and her son.
The NRA has entered the chat.
irresponsible gun owning parents, who literally put firearms into the hands of their homicidal children, need to be held accountable for these tragedies.
dozens of mass shootings in recent years, especially school shootings, were absolutely preventable. if only these fucking lazy stupid ass adults would stop fetishizing guns for 2 seconds, long enough to store their weapons securely like a sane responsible person. or they could, idk, maybe steer their mentally disturbed crotch goblin towards a more pro-social, harmless activity?
firearm ownership is a responsibility too few take seriously.
Why not life sentences for grand parents too? Uncles and aunts? Doctors, teachers…
If a gun owner’s gun is used in a murder, the owner should be charged with second-degree murder, full stop. When you own a gun, it is your responsibility to keep and secure it properly. I don’t care if it’s stolen or whatever, that gun is ultimately the responsibility of the owner. That’s the social contract when acquiring a device whose sole purpose is to kill.
I think stolen is too far as long as the gun owner acts responsibly following the theft and reports it to the police but otherwise, I completely agree. Owning a gun should come with personal accountability for that gun.
If the gun owner did not properly secure the weapon, and this led to theft, they should definitively be held responsible. In some areas in the US, when you steal a car, you get a free firearms collection with it.
Guy I grew up with had his truck broken into outside a hotel a couple years ago. They stole a bunch of his tools from the cab and tool box in the bed but left a pistol that was sitting on his passenger seat, another one that was sitting on the case of his diagnostics tool that was sitting on top of his center console, which they stole, along with the ammo and a rifle he had in the toolbox in the bed of his truck. I agree storing shit like that is irresponsible and should also be met with consequences, although some establishments you can’t take a gun into so having it cleared and in a locked gun case in the vehicle I believe to be a reasonable measure. Only reason I can imagine they left all his guns and ammo behind is that there must be more significant charges and/or investigative resources that go into a situation where firearms are involved where he lives.
In my country, burglers usually avoid stealing weapons. If you break in and steal some money or jewelry, your case comes into the pile with the others. If you steal firearms on top of it, your case is put on the top of the stack with a bunch more people assigned to it.
But your case just proves it: American gun owners are rather neglient when it comes to securing their weapons. Most likely because the both the training and requirements as well as the question on responsibility is basically just not there.
In some countries, if you own a firearm and it gets stolen or lost, or someone else takes it, you simply lose your licence or ownership permit.
I’m sorry context is such an issue for you
It must be hard
Maybe just less guns?
I was recently thinking it’s says a lot about a culture, where kids shoot up schools regularly, but immigrants getting a terrible treatment never seem to shoot up an ICE office or other government building.
People in US culture want to think this is a product of white christian men getting hurt and isolated to the point that the poor innocent souls wander into committing a school shooting.
The negative mental health is only part of the equation and isn’t even critical to it, what IS critical is teaching christian white men that they have the inherent right given who they are to commit violence and nobody else does.
This is why you see that “incongruity”.
I think both are part of the same culture to be honest, they are just in very different positions both pushed to an extreme situation (the kids shooting up schools and the government officials threating immigrants like crap). Personally I believe you get what you give and this is the result of a society that is getting what it has been giving (or not giving, really). Really sad situation where a lot of people get way less than they deserve (the parents of the killed kids, the children of the deported families etc)
No. We’ve been having too many random fires lately. The obvious answer is MORE FLAMETHROWERS! Yeah! That’ll fix all the fires!
Fight fire with fire! That’ll surely work.
This is kind of a bad example because, rhetoric aside, in various situations you can fight fire with fire and in fact it’s the best way to do it. I.e. controlled burns of areas subject to wildfires are used to lessen the amount of tinder lying around the place that could later go up in an uncontrolled manner. You can also put out an oil well fire by blowing the flame out with dynamite.
So to stretch the analogy further, maybe we ought to start focusing on what (who) ought to be controlled burned.
The analogy of controllably burning the right people seems an effective way to restore the democratic order (although it could also be used to tighten the fascist grip I guess).
Maybe more dynamite actually is the way. Ukraine uses IEDs in mailboxes to take down important people in Moscow for example.
Not a fan of Luigi’s violent means, but maybe we (or actually they since I’m also not American) have start fighting fire with fire.
Very good points. I didn’t know about the oil dynamite thing. Interesting. My previous comment was also slightly sarcastic. Just going along with the post I was responding to haha.
That last sentence though, agreed. (I’m also not an American, so there’s less guns where I’m from).
This state was literally concocted so slavers could violently enforce their disgusting privilege.
This is what fascism is. This kid is a real american.
He was one of the “homegrowns”. Any bets on him going to CECOT?
i’d bet against that…
Nah, he’ll become a brownshirt.
Agreed they’ll have him pardoned, kidnapping people and dragging them into unmarked cars as soon as possible
You mean silver shirt?
With a golden Trump pin
He’s probably getting a pardon and an ice position
And ice cream with the cops
There’s actually no significant political trend or ideology in active shooters they run the gamut politically and ideologically and religiously.
But you’re right it was not a drag queen. 😃
Hate to be so cliche, but got links? My duckduck searches def highlighted white males, but I couldnt find much about idealogy/politcal trends in our active shooters.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1384790/motivations-of-mass-shooters-us/
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-07/what-role-does-ideology-play-in-mass-shootings
Here are just two sources from a preliminary search.
You are correct the extreme vast majority like in the 94th percentile are white males that commit mass shootings.
I was able to find that a lot of them have links to extremism specifically right wing extremism but ultimately almost all of them again in the 90th percentile were suicidal in a state of crisis and had some sort of mental illness coupled with all of that.
The actual primary reason why they shootings happen is due to mental illness almost exclusively.
There’s definitely some correlation between right-wing extremism and even more specifically magas but not enough to exclusively blame the shootings on that.
Supplementary, I did find one or two not very good sources that indicate there have been an uptick of mass shootings specifically due to Donald Trump’s re-election. But like I said these were not good sources.
Thanks
paywalled
archive.is is your friend
I didn’t have an issue personally. But I apologize for the inconvenience?
Bending reality to fit your cult views. Would love some sources or data to back that up. But you magats don’t give that.
I donno man. Maybe do a Google search, heck ask chatgpt if you’re super lazy.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-07/what-role-does-ideology-play-in-mass-shootings
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1384790/motivations-of-mass-shooters-us/
But here you go. Sources.
Since I’m not lazy I’ll just go ahead and tell you what the results of those sources are.
The extreme vast majority of mass shooters are white males are mentally ill, suicidal and are in a state of crisis days or hours before the shooting occurs.
Extremism plays a role in the shootings but not necessarily right wing extremism although in recent years there has been a small uptick in right wing extremist motivated shootings.
None of the sources good ones or bad ones link specifically magas to mass shootings although there have been Mass shooters that identified as such. There have also been plenty of mass shooters that identified as extremist left wing.
The LA times article goes into detail specifically about that.
I highly recommend you stop making assumptions about random people you comment to on the internet.
One day many many decades and centuries from now internet archaeologists are going to be looking at this exchange and you’re going to come off as extremely ignorant.
What’s more is that you don’t give a crap about the mass shooters you just want Mass shooters to fit your world view which is apparently that all magas are bad which exemplifies your ignorance.
First of all you gave me 2 examples of shooters and expect that to be significant. Second I didn’t say mass shooters were all Maga. Again bending reality to be the persecuted party. Maga is just focused on the wrong things. Exemplified by the fact that mass shootings are typically depressed white males. Why is it that 90%+ are male and 50%+ are white? Why can we immediately have a legislature to ban reading books to kids from drag queens or deport without due process. But yet when it comes to mental health or gun control we have nothing. BeCaUsE tHe CoNsTiTuTion. You know what kills the most kids in america? Not cancer, not cars, not accidents. Guns. This one was done with his moms gun. How was that not properly locked away. I’m not the ignorant one. https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/public-mass-shootings-database-amasses-details-half-century-us-mass-shootings Here’s an actual study.
Did you actually read anything I wrote?
I totally agree with everything you’re saying here.
My original comment was that there isn’t any common political thread between mass shooters.
And you’re the one calling me a maga when I’m not. I hate the state of my country right now our politics are ass backwards.
Read my comment. You’re talking about all time. Since maga movement there absolutely is political motivation. And if you’re not maga don’t defend them.
At no point did I defend maga. Even other people have told you this. You just asserted it randomly. You made an assumption out of the blue.
Evidence was presented to you that active shooters do not use politics as a primary motivator and the ones that have politics as a motivator aren’t exclusively motivated by maga rhetoric.
The primary motivator is mental illness.
But here you are screaming at windmills about gun control. Like it’s so simple all you have to do is make new laws provide adequate mental healthcare inact gun control nation wide and poof it’ll all go away as long as whatever political party you don’t like just shuts up.
Christ on a stick anything that opposes the bandwagon on lemmy and people like you crawl out of the woodwork. It’s freaking exhausting. Go crawl back under whatever rock you came out of!
Yeah its so hard only 36 other countries have done it. The evidence you provided was comparing 2 shooters. More evidence was provided that a majority of shooters in recent years(which is also a majority of shootings) are right wing. I showed you were wrong. This isn’t a bandwagon issue. Its common sense. Maga promotes violence. We’ve seen this on january 6th, the pardons issued, and with the illegal removal of undocumented immigrants. Maga also wants to “protect the kids” by attacking certain groups but their group is the biggest perpetrators of mass shootings. Which you refute against all evidence. If youre going to ignore evidence and continue to be this dense youre only going to continue this issue.
Studying recent mass shootings(which account for the majority of them) its only becoming more skewed towards right wing extremism
hey I’m confused by what you linked. you’re trying to say there’s a pattern, right? since the person you’re responding to was just saying “there’s no pattern”. but the data in this source really didn’t jump out at me as saying a particular demographic was responsible. (besides males…) like yeah they were 50% white but that’s the majority demographic so of course a wide distribution will have high pct white. I mean the age range was 11-70!!
I’m just confused at why you’re so mad at this person and calling them a maggot when you’re literally agreeing with each other. are you in crisis?
It’s a complicated and nuanced issue and not one we can easily solve by targeting specific groups. you’re right, the best thing to do is deal with the guns. I dont think ive seen anyone here disagree with that
I don’t think he actually read my comment because I addressed everything he said. He basically regurgitated the facts I provided in my comment like they were his own.
I think he just wants to hit certain talking points i don’t think hes actually reading any of the responses.
🤷
So the data i posted initially was from 1966 to 2019. Using that data this person would be correct. However they state that 20% of mass shootings have occurred in the last 5 years. The link i posted afterwards is a more recent analysis of mass shootings in that 5 year span where we can clearly see more right wing white males are the perpetrators. The bigger issue and what i addressed is that regardless of what excuse maga have they still ignore it. Even if you ignore that theyre the biggest perpetrators of this in recent years, they still haven’t done anything about the issues for the last 50+ years. They ignore mental health, gun laws, etc. Instead they ban drag book readings and deport against court orders. Yet kids arent dying from drag book readings. I do not agree with this person and they are very much wrong. Its not really a complicated issue. Expanding access to mental healthcare and placing reasonable gun laws would slash this drastically. But current maga admin are actively cutting mental health access and refuse to touch guns. A study i would like to see is if in recent years maga are suffering from more mental health disorders. It would make their projections of TDS make a lot more sense.
how dare you try to implant a tracking device into my rectum i will have your bladder removed for this you hostile invader
since we’re making random accusations against you that have nothing to do with the comment you made
Thank you. I made my night! 😂😂
Young white men are being indoctrinated with 24/7 propaganda telling them they are the real victims
What/Where is this propaganda?
Check Adolescence https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/adolescence for a drama on the topic.
Warning: VERY dramatic.
Social media, podcasts and media
I’m sorry, I try to keep my media intake low, but what is being said that makes these white men feel like victims? Or, portraying them as the victim?
Troll
It’s only offensive because It is something I don’t fully grasp. not a troll.
Even if you were a troll, your questions are worth asking. All the reactionary downvoting and accusations are because you made them have to think about their position so they get defensive and echo their aggregated hate. I wonder if they also espouse the lack of empathy of the other party. Imagine the hypocrisy.
No “empathy” for fascism.
USA is a nonstop racist shithole. You haven’t noticed? Probably part of the problem.
Your first reaction is to insult and write someone off? I think you sound like the problem. And an asshole.
You can’t classify all of America as a “racist shithole”, it is just too big. We kinda have most of the spectrum. There are many towns and cities that are very welcoming, but there is the opposite as well. And some states compared to others are very different in their tolerance levels. (Real quick, Texas is bigger than most countries, i.e. Japan, Germany, the UK., etc.)
But no, I live in a very diverse area, and in my area, at least, there are very few racist assholes. I traveled quite a bit around the states, for over 15 years, and I have seen many types of people. Many types of racist. But they are a very small minority. The shittiest minority groups are the loudest. That’s why they can be loudest, because they are the shittiest. It’s weird, but that’s how it works.
You know what other tiny group of the population is super loud? Like, you can’t stop hearing about them/from them? It’s the transsexuals. They are the loudest, most in your face… anyway.
Honestly, you sound like a little judgemental twat.
Are you really fully unaware of incels, the manosphere, and the alt-right pipeline? This shit is all over social media.
There’s a strong encouragement for men to fall into this “redpill” philosophy that casts everyone who doesn’t look like them, especially anyone who ends up on the less-privileged end of any measure of intersectional privilege, as an aggressor attempting to steal their place in society and “replace” them.
Have you heard anyone complaining about how you can’t make jokes anymore or can’t compliment women anymore? They’re echoing a hallucination of white male oppression by queer feminist socialists. In response they elected Trump and spend their days rumbling around in their massive coal-rolling pickup trucks that have never seen a speck of dirt or a heavier load than a few groceries or maybe a couch.
It’s weird… cuz, even if there is a bias against white men, its still white men that rule the most of the world and have all the money, and run the major corporations. But white men feel like they’re getting replaced?
On the other hand, America has always been a mix, but always had a strong foundation of white men, and it does feel like that base might be changing. Something is changing
Edit: it’s flabbergasting that a reply like this gets down votes
People are becoming educated about the myth of racism and the privilege bestowed on pale skins by racism.
I don’t know how much privilege we can say was/is bestowed on white people. I think in history, white people weren’t having much bestowed on them, rather, they were usually the bestowers.
That sounds harsher than I wanted it to.
What’s the point of bringing this weird, condescending Reddit energy to what seems to be a genuine question?
Not everyone lives on the internet, not everyone knows what an incel is, or who Andrew Tate is or what a manosphere is. Why not just answer the question normally? Holy fucking moly.
In response they elected Trump
Young incel type white guys did? I thought most of them didn’t even bother to turn up. Look fuck the extremisation of the yutes through social media, it’s genuinely awful and will likely have long lasting effects but we can’t put the blame on them for all the ails in the world without recognizing that a lot of different segments of our population are fucking up right now and are in some small part contributing to more people being alienated from the left. You have to at least admit that it’s a little ironic to say that they’re imagining everything while also seemingly putting electing Trump solely on them. It’s ultimately counter productive in the long run.
I see you’ve never heard of Fox News.
What if one doesn’t watch fox news?
You must be a victim.
No I don’t, you do.
🫂
Its the lifeblood of the Conservative Propaganda Machine.
This is a weird way for me to find out about another shooting
It wasn’t as bad as some (2 dead, 6 injured).
He originally started with a shotgun but it jammed without firing a shot. He grabbed a pistol from his vehicle and fired into the bystanders.
Police were on scene quickly (FSU is always crawling with plain clothes officers and unmarked cars) and shot and wounded the shooter.
If that happened in my country it would be huge news and all anyone in the country would talk about for weeks.
This is America. Don’t catch you slippin’.
It would appear that we have standardized school shootings here in the States.
This one wasn’t that bad. Remember that other one?
You going to catch The Game later?
FSU is always crawling with plain clothes officers and unmarked cars
Wait what the fuck?
I’ve seen a full on homeless man, with dreadlocks and scruffy blanket (urban Ghillie suit) sitting outside of a Waffle House. The local clubs were letting out and there were gunshots in the parking lot.
Dude stood up and radioed in shots fired and pulled an AR from the bag he was sitting on.
Tons of unmarked cars around campus with lights mounted in the grill and illegally tinted windows.
It’s a heavy security presence that you wouldn’t notice unless you were around it a lot.
We really are a police state.
That pistol he grabbed from the vehicle…
…was his Mom’s old service pistol.
His Mom was a school resource officer and later deputized into the Leon County Sheriffs.
https://www.newsweek.com/fsu-shooter-leon-county-deputy-phoenix-jessica-ikner-2061301
In a news conference hours after the first reports of the active shooting were announced, Leon County Sheriff Walt McNeil identified the suspect.
“The shooter is 20-year-old Phoenix Ikner … and he is the son of a Leon County sheriff’s deputy,” McNeil said.
…
According to Revell during the news conference, Jessica Ikner [the shooter’s mother] is a school resource officer in Leon County. The county sheriff’s office website lists her as a “middle schools deputy.”
Deputy Ikner was awarded law enforcement employee of the month in March 2024, the sheriff’s office posted on Facebook.
…
[The Shooter] was “a long-standing member” of the Leon County Sheriff’s Office Youth Advisory Council, McNeil said during the news conference.
“He has been steep in the Leon County Sheriff’s Office Family,” McNeil said, adding that it is “not a surprise” that Ikner had access to weapons.
…
(apologies for possibly paywalled link, try internet archive if its blocked for you)
Phoenix Ikner, a 20-year-old son of a sheriff’s deputy whom police accuse of using his mother’s gun, is in police custody after being identified as a suspect in a shooting on Florida State University’s campus Thursday, which killed two people and injured at least six others.
…
Jessica Ikner, a beloved Raa Middle School student resource deputy, was the 2023 law enforcement officer of the year with the Leon County Sheriff’s Office.
She also practiced shooting with her stepson, Phoenix, at a firing range, but “not in an official capacity,” according to LCSO.
…
Yeah so this guy was trained to shoot by his armed-with-a-firearm, middle school guard / county deputy mom, and he then took his mom’s service pistol to shoot up his own school/uni.
I can’t find more details on the shotgun, but it could also be the case that that is or was a service weapon as well… but that is barely informed speculation on my part, I just know that a lot of US cops also have a shotgun in their cruiser.
The headline is using ‘was’ as a weasel word.
They know it’ll be click bait because it will be read as:
“The weapon used is a weapon that is the service weapon of a deputy”, and not:
“At one point, in the past, the weapon used was a service weapon but isn’t any longer”.
Him using a service weapon implies that there was a lapse of security on his mother’s part. That’s why it’s being mentioned in the way that it is because, if it were true, it would be outrageous.
The fact that an adult Florida man was able to access privately owned firearms isn’t news. But making it seem scandalous by implying that he killed people with a weapon issued as the service weapon of an active duty cop gets clicks.
The shotgun story is based on first hand accounts that I’ve heard from the FSU students that I work with. I’m obviously just a random Internet person, so don’t believe it until you see other sources.
Thoughts and prayers
Oh, what a fucked up world we live in that we see a school shooting as “not so bad, all things considered”…
It’s only “not so bad” in America.
‘No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
There is a really fucked up silver lining to this which is every nation not the USA can point to the USA whenever someone wants to loosen gun regulations. In a twisted way the US might be helping other nations by being such a “good” (bad) example.
Absolutely! I’m not in Germany but I hope they can use the US as an example of what not to do and absolutely destroy the AfD before it reaches critical mass.
Rest of the world also has a right-wing problem. It’s seeping into our culture and everyday life because they have found out how to sell fascism to the everyday, uneducated moron. Sadly, that’s half the world.
Politicians around the word: we need to ban guns and assault rifles.
US policy makers: we need to tell the good guys they need to
buycarry a gun.Plenty of countries have lots of guns. Virtually none of them have any significant number of mass terror shootings, even the ones with otherwise high rates of gun violence.
America is built different.
The rethoric of the people in power seems different, but I don"t know enough of other countries with lots of guns.
Also US policy makers: We refuse to do anything about the low wages, crushing debt, inaccessible health care (physical and mental), and other problems I can’t even think of right now.
Local law enforcement was having a training session very close by. That and the fact the shooter was the son of a Sherrif deputy are the reasons you could hear them blowing themselves over their fast response the whole time. Not that the fucker was putting up all the red flags for fucking years while being heavily involved in local law enforcement and constantly around guns.
Not that the fucker was putting up all the red flags for fucking years while being heavily involved in local law enforcement and constantly around guns.
There is a reason DeSantis & the fascists in the Florida legislature are about to get rid of the red flag laws.
Imagine that! Who’d’ve thought?
deleted by creator
the word is ‘terrorist’
you mean ‘troubled young man’ ? /sarc
Um, actually, the tweet clearly says “Florida State University” not “Tesla Cybertruck” so no this wasn’t actually an act of terrorism, it was just a peaceful protest instead
