Is this even true? I am fairly sure that Linux also has a graceful shutdown process, but I’ll admit I haven’t looked into it.
yeah we have SIGTERM for graceful and SIGKILL for not so graceful shutting down a process.
In order of decreasing politeness: 1, 2, 15, 9 = HUP, INT, TERM, KILL = “Please stop”, “Quit it”, “I’m warning you” and “BANG”
Hup is frequently just “hey, reread your configuration files and keep going”
True. I think of it more as a semantic shift. In the old days, processes would actually quit and some other process would resurrect it as necessary, but then someone had the idea of having some processes catch the HUP and do all that itself without actually bothering any other processes.
And the implementation might actually involve an
execof the process’ own executable, meaning that it actually does self-terminate, but it leaves a child in its place.
9 kills all 9 lives is they way the hpunix guy explained it to me in the mid 90s
This is put so beautifully!
REISUB. I own you machine, and you will do as I say. Reboot.
I’ve never seen anything graceful in windows
Windows: I refuse to shut down because of a, b , c
Me: But I already clos. . .
Windows: No you didnt’t, stop lying!
Me : Well, I pressed the X and the window dissappeared.
Windows: Lol, noob. Did you never even heard of a task managers?
windows: “Can’t shut down because of the ‘Cant shut down’ notice”
me: “but…”
“Mmm, that didn’t work, try again later I guess? Just stop bothering me with your petty needs and get back to generating monetizable data that I can harvest.”
Systemd moment
systemd moment in the sense that someone not affiliated with systemd used systemd to write a stop job that doesn’t terminate quickly? Or that you willingly installed software that brought along a slow stop job with it?
This is like so far away from systemd’s fault, idk, it must just be a meme right?
Pretty sure i’ve had this happen with services i didn’t even create, but yeah it was just a joke, i don’t care about init systems, but i don’t recall this ever happening when i was using runit.
I don’t know runit. Maybe runit didn’t even have a way to delay or customize shutdown, maybe it always just waits 5 seconds and then forcibly terminates a process, resulting in you never noticing when a cleanup job was too slow. Maybe you just randomly never installed a particular program with a slow shutdown job while using runit. There’s a bunch of reasonable explanations and possibilities for why this difference exists, and they can all mean systemd is perfectly reasonable.
Alright man, fact remains i was just making a silly joke, you don’t have to be poettering’s pr team lol
You’re the one who brought up runit and insinuated it doesn’t have this problem ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I said i never experienced this problem with runit, not that it can’t happen. It was anecdotal.
disconnects power cord
Wasn’t the systemd dude a Microsoft employee or something?
to be honest if that happens its better to understand why that happens, instead of just pulling the plug. maybe a larger program (like firefox) is still exiting and in the middle of saving the session and closing databases. if you pull the plug, it’ll corrupt its data, it’ll forget your opened tabs and whatnot and you’ll be angry
I’m afraid you answered the wrong comment.
well, yeah, maybe it should have gone to the parent comment
Happens.
He wrote Pulseaudio, Avahi, and systemd before joining Microsoft, where he currently works.
So that’s the story. SystemD feels very Microsofty, though. A big, opinionated, monolith.
An excellent vid on Why systemD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user.
For instance: there’s a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I’m not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing.
That’s just an example of how systemd didn’t jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together.
That’s where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying “it’s not a single binary so it’s not monolithic”. Its philosophy is monolithic.
That said, I use systemd on my machines because that’s what my do uses and I don’t think it’s a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter.
. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter
Yes. This is the key
While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters…is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user?
One task lifecycle management tool to bring them all, one tool to find them. One tool to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.
I hate this message
If you hit Ctrl Alt Delete very quickly in succession (I believe it’s 7 times in a row) it will bail out from a stop job and proceed with shutting down
Learned that trick because I was so tired of seeing that occur ha. Along that research I swear I recall seeing that it’s a KDE/SDDM issue but I might be getting some wires crossed on that (and thus, don’t quote me/take my word on that 😅)
Not only do I get this on shutdown I get a job on startup that runs for a minute thirty that looks for a swap partition that I have deleted.
As comments below you will need to check /etc/fstab and then run a mkgrub or mkgrub2 command with options like -o (you will have lookup the full string) and it will rewrite the info that the system is told at boot about drive partitions
I’ve had that problem before, I think I had to mess around with my fstab and grub config to fix it.
Yes. Deleting partitions without editing /etc/fstab is a nice way to render your system unbootable.
Only if they are necessary for the boot process I think
You think means you’re assuming and relying on assumptions for critical options is deadly: Unless you’re adding the “noerror” option to the referring line in /etc/fstab the machine will fail to boot.
Did you delete it or comment it out in /etc/fstab? Adding
noresumeto your boot arguments should also help. You can try that out in “extended options” during boot and add it to /boot/grub/grub.cfg later. Don’t forget to run
update-grubafter editing.
Praise all the syatemd gods
“no loose ends”
Dead processes make no log entries
i mean
I just use scissors, I have so many IECs laying around
Be careful cutting any multi-conductor cable with scissors, there is a solid chance you short the conductors to each other when doing so.
Great way to damage a power cable.
We should start clamping little handles to them.
Old wives’ tale. I’ve only ever yanked power cords out of the wall and I’ve yet to have one go bad on me.
My ex: what charging cables do you have? They last forever, mine break after a year!
Also my ex: so I got a bunch of the same charging cables you have and they all broke after a yearThe type of case that plug has in the stock photo is not coming apart without extreme violence.
I like it. Simple but effective.
$ kill -L 1) SIGHUP 2) SIGINT 3) SIGQUIT 4) SIGILL 5) SIGTRAP 6) SIGABRT 7) SIGBUS 8) SIGFPE 9) SIGKILL 10) SIGUSR1 11) SIGSEGV 12) SIGUSR2 13) SIGPIPE 14) SIGALRM 15) SIGTERM 16) SIGSTKFLT 17) SIGCHLD 18) SIGCONT 19) SIGSTOP 20) SIGTSTP 21) SIGTTIN 22) SIGTTOU 23) SIGURG 24) SIGXCPU 25) SIGXFSZ 26) SIGVTALRM 27) SIGPROF 28) SIGWINCH 29) SIGIO 30) SIGPWR 31) SIGSYS 34) SIGRTMIN 35) SIGRTMIN+1 36) SIGRTMIN+2 37) SIGRTMIN+3 38) SIGRTMIN+4 39) SIGRTMIN+5 40) SIGRTMIN+6 41) SIGRTMIN+7 42) SIGRTMIN+8 43) SIGRTMIN+9 44) SIGRTMIN+10 45) SIGRTMIN+11 46) SIGRTMIN+12 47) SIGRTMIN+13 48) SIGRTMIN+14 49) SIGRTMIN+15 50) SIGRTMAX-14 51) SIGRTMAX-13 52) SIGRTMAX-12 53) SIGRTMAX-11 54) SIGRTMAX-10 55) SIGRTMAX-9 56) SIGRTMAX-8 57) SIGRTMAX-7 58) SIGRTMAX-6 59) SIGRTMAX-5 60) SIGRTMAX-4 61) SIGRTMAX-3 62) SIGRTMAX-2 63) SIGRTMAX-1 64) SIGRTMAXSo does kill -4 just make the program a bit poorly?
SIGILL P1990 Core Illegal Instruction
It starts playing Beastie Boys over PC speaker
Only if you have installed the correct license file.
Linux does give every application time to shut down correctly, but unlike windows, it won’t wait for ages until every process is down. Linux WILL shut down in a certain timeframe, whereas windows waits for years if necessary. In my old job, we all had to use windows and I had times where I clicked shut down, turned off my monitor, grabbed my stuff, left and in the next morning, the PC was still on because Notepad refused to just close lmao.
That is what infuriates me so much. Instead of just killing the process after 5 mins of waiting it just cancels the shutdown. Like fuck off with that shit.
Depending on the use case, that can be a good thing or a bad thing
Shouldn’t be the default though.
Ha, you want choice in how your OS functions?
Here, have another bing toolbar for your settings app.Man I hope next time I press windows and type an application by name, or by executable.exe I get a spinning icon then a stack of unrelated web results that are probably malware.
I don’t want my IDE with hours of work to just shut down forcibly.
Then you might not want windows cause Windows forces updates on you whether you want them or not and break things. Linux will happily wait for you to forget for so long it breaks because the target API doesn’t accept your old ass code anymore. At least in Linux as long as I don’t forget I’m good. I sometimes forget
TBF there are ways to completely disable updates in Windows (I just did in my VM because it should literally only run 3 programs which are not working with wine)
then surely you would not have asked your OS to shutdown? linux does what you ask
I should probably sigterm instead of sigkill, but it sounds far less cool
Nothing is graceful about Windows. [=
Close correctly my ass, window’s priority is to piss us off.
I’ve tried to turn a pc off to go to sleep, only to realize in the morning it’s still on because some program refused to close.
Now when I see the prompt to force close, I just say yes.
sudo reboot, that way the gui gets to die in a fire, too!
Kill commands make me look like a CS:Go Civilian
KILL KILL KILL
Linux is actually great if you need to implement graceful shutdown with signals – I love it all around :)))
deleted by creator
