i wonder what y’all have to say about this

  • @wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    I commented some of this in response to a popular comment below, but since you asked for general impressions:

    I take this as an anti-natalist statement. Anti-natalism has some implications of nihilism for those already born, which is to say: If I think it’s unethical or wrong to have children, due to the suffering inherent in living a life (or caused by the negative externalities of reproducing), does that logically imply that I must blame my own parents for my conception, and wish never to have existed? (though not, necessarily to end my own life, of course, as that would bring further suffering)

    If we are not going to be nihilist, and instead choose a more utilitarian approach with a cost-benefit analysis, to what extent does the added value of reproduction (from your effect on the future increasing through genetic propagation, fulfilled biological imperative, and any derived joy from interaction with the birthed individual) outweigh the potential loss of quality-adjusted life years from health implications of reproduction (especially for the mothers)? Is the risk of negative outcomes high enough to resolve not to reproduce?

      • @turnip@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        Just need a bit of DHT inhibitor, which is cheap because its out of patent.

      • @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        52 months ago

        The trick to being stress free is to get older without any kind of family, to work yourself to death consumed entirely with your bank account high score, and to consume, consume, consume forever without any thought to the next generation.

        Fuck, this comic makes me want to have kids more, just because of how bleak and shallow the worldview is.

        • @HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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          32 months ago

          There are other things you can do other than mindlessly grind for wealth or drag another non-consenting consciousness or two into existence.

          • @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            22 months ago

            Shame the comic doesn’t explore that.

            But also, its weird to claim babies are “dragged into existence” since there’s no way to establish who wants to be here.

            If we’re going to entertain non-existent people who don’t want to exist, we are obligated to consider non-existent people who do want to exist.

            • @HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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              52 months ago

              If we’re going to entertain non-existent people who don’t want to exist, we are obligated to consider non-existent people who do want to exist.

              People who are happy to be alive does not “pay” for bringing someone unhappy into existence. In fact if you really think that you can justify all sorts of morally reprehensible things.

              But that isn’t precisely my point.

              Let me repeat: No one consents to being born. You cannot ask someone ahead of time if they’d like to be born. Any person born owes absolutely nothing to their parents and almost nothing to everyone else other than basic respect. Until of course they themselves give birth, and then they owe an infinite and unpayable debt to their children.

              Even if your child is perfectly content being alive throughout their life, they did not choose to be here. You brought them here and thus you still owe them a debt.

              • @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                12 months ago

                People who are happy to be alive does not “pay” for bringing someone unhappy into existence.

                How are you evaluating happiness absent existence? Hell, how are you evaluating happiness, period?

                Even if your child is perfectly content being alive throughout their life, they did not choose to be here.

                How do you reach that conclusion? We’re all just bits of matter, assembled in various shapes and configurations.

                He was here before he was born as matter. He’ll be here after he’s dead as matter. All life has given him is senses to perceive his surroundings and agency to affect them.

                Are you arguing a given child would be better off inert? Are blindness, deafness, and paralysis virtues?

                • @HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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                  12 months ago

                  How do you reach that conclusion? We’re all just bits of matter, assembled in various shapes and configurations.

                  Because… inert matter doesn’t make decisions…

                  How are you evaluating happiness absent existence? Hell, how are you evaluating happiness, period?

                  As long as you accept the premise that some people are happy and some people are unhappy, I don’t think measuring it for precision matters.

                  Are you arguing a given child would be better off inert? Are blindness, deafness, and paralysis virtues?

                  They wouldn’t be a child if they were never born to begin with.

  • Fat Tony
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    42 months ago

    This post appears to be at odds with c/childfree and c/suicidewatch.

  • @HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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    492 months ago

    I feel nothing but revulsion and disgust for the person who made this comic.

    It places its sympathy towards parents, which is nonsense. They’re the ones who choose to bring the child into existence in the first place. They should fucking bear the guilt and try and make up for it as best as they can.

    • @Rin@lemm.ee
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      62 months ago

      i don’t know who wrote it but i think it might’ve been a kid who drew it. I’ve often felt like my parents hated me (i hated them for that too) and i’ve often contemplated leaving. i’ve always came to the conclusion that they would be happy if i did so, or if I killed myself. I never did because I was 10 years old and I was scared what would happen to me and i didn’t exactly have the means to kms.

    • @andros_rex@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      When I was 6, I told my mother I hated her and she threw away my entire Pokémon card collection. I think my hatred was probably justified. (I had a holo Charizard, bitch could have sold it for grocery money.)

      • @HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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        52 months ago

        My parents treated me mostly fine, though I’m fairly certain with my father it was fairly conditional, I was just careful to not get on his bad side. Now not so much.

        Even with acceptable or even good parents, I still find everything to be fairly existentially unpleasant. I resent being born.

        That said, despite that I still love my mom. Shes a good person despite having given birth to me.

          • @HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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            12 months ago

            I’ve not read any of his work but I am aware of him. I suspect that I’d likely agree with him on a lot. But I’ve also read that reading his work would probably make me even more depressed about being born.

            • @andros_rex@lemmy.world
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              62 months ago

              I tried Camus’s “nothing matters so make up a meaning you like and run with it” for a while, which I think works for one’s first few existential crises.

              The clumsy solution I’ve stumbled on is viewing this all as a war against entropy and evil. Anger is a feeling that has escape velocity, that even if one feels crushed by the despair inherent to being human, you can at least pick up your “weapons” and keep tumbling on.

              There’s some positives in the experiences and small pleasures, like art and discussion and philosophy, but it’s mostly a fight.

              I think Planescape: Torment explores a lot of these ideas in a way that’s a bit less “despairingly” nihilistic. The “best” ending means the Nameless One spending eternity in hell fighting in a pointless brutal war - but it feels correct, it has meaning.

  • @Deathray5@lemmynsfw.com
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    152 months ago

    I don’t necessarily think that comics that have toxic messages are inherently a problem.

    I think a perfectly reasonable parent would relate to the comic at some point. Read as more of a vent post I get it. So long as it’s recognised as a toxic perspective and is indulged as a temporary way to air their grievance in their own head I think it can be helpful

  • queermunist she/her
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    372 months ago

    If I was never born I wouldn’t be alive and I wouldn’t have to kill myself. Truly the best of both worlds.

  • @kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1042 months ago

    Thats extremely unhelpful and even harmful for many people

    Trigger warning: depression

    I personally have depression and have been through horrible things before I even turned 18. So yeah if you told me when I was 15 or 16 that eveyone around be would be significantly happier and better off with me not around I would genuenly consider jumping off a bridge.

    • @wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      I definitely see your point, though I took this as an anti-natalist joke, not a refutation of “It’s a Wonderful Life”.

      I’m inclined to wonder at what point the arguments of anti-natalism must be weighed against the nihilistic implications on those already born?

    • @foofiepie@lemmy.world
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      222 months ago

      Me too, and I agree it would have had a negative effect when I was at a vulnerable stage way back then.

      Now that I’m a grisly old bastard, and a parent, I found it funny af.

      So, mixed feelings.

    • @Obi@sopuli.xyz
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      32 months ago

      Don’t laugh, do you have any idea how hard it is to live life with cactiarmitis? The budget on winter jackets alone…

  • @HollowNaught@lemmy.world
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    302 months ago

    Ngl, this post really doesn’t send a good message. Is it true for some people? Probably

    But my parents pushed me into 3 days of tafe, 2 days of uni, and 2 days of work a week when I was younger. It caused me to crash and burn

    It honestly makes people who are already doing a lot feel like they have to do more to make up for what their parents have given up for them, and that’s just unhealthy

    I had to move away from that mindset, and something like this really wouldn’t have helped

  • @thingAmaBob@lemmy.world
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    132 months ago

    I mean, seems like these parents never wanted kids. It’s amazing how many pregnancies are accidental. I wonder how many would actually have children if everyone had 100% control over when to conceive.