Transcript
A threads post saying “There has never been another nation ever that has existed much beyond 250 years. Not a single one. America’s 250th year is 2025. The next 4 years are gonna be pretty interesting considering everything that’s already been said.” It has a reply saying “My local pub is older than your country”.
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Who did the US get independence from, buddy?
The Kingdom of Great Britain, which ceased to exist in 1800 and lasted less than a century.
Use the same definition (unchanged political institutions) and tell me how long the Roman Empire lasted.
Best I can find is about 500 years.
You have to add all these together to include coups and hostile takeovers or divide it to hilariously short periods.
I think that was the point of the original poster. I mean, they were wrong, but I find a lot of the comments in this thread hilariously more wrong in their self-righteous response.
The was also a kingdom period in Rome’s earlier times. But that’s ancient history, am i rite?
(I’ll let myself out)
Well there’s that… but these people are free from the restraints of logic.
They think of countries as dynasties or times of uninterrupted, peaceful transitions of power. Britain has changed dynasties and government types over the years. It’s semantics.
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There’s a restaurant near me that’s been in business since 1472.
They went bankrupt in 2023. Weird kind of feel.Man, the final owner of the business must have some interesting feelings being the one that drove it into the ground after 550 years.
They survived the Black Plague and the Spanish Flu, but Covid did them in.
Didn’t realise we’re living in 2225 already, damnEdit: math no longer adds up to 2225 ad after op edited year to 1472 ad.
That would be 753 years ?
2225 - 1472
Yes, but op edited comment
The Hudson Bay Company was founded in 1670 and went bankrupt this year. To think a company that indirectly formed an entirely new culture 300 years ago is now going under is wild to me.
I think it’s a shame. It did some awful things in its early years, and it was mismanaged lately. But, I wish there had been a way to allow it to continue to exist as a business, even if it was just a single store and more museum than business. Who knows, maybe it could have had a renaissance at some point. Now it’s just something in the history books as one of the longest-lived companies.
HBC was effectively a “country” for a good chunk of time as well. It had full autonomous control of the land, it’s own ‘government’, provided public services, policing, and it’s own military.
My court house and my apartment building are older than America xD
Some American buildings are older than America xD
Even if this were true, this would be anthropic reasoning, which is always suspect. The belief that the present, the here and now, cannot be exceptional will always overlook examples where it is exceptional.
We live in interesting times.
Bro he could’ve done a single online search and disproved himself in literal seconds.
Freedom of expression has morphed into freedom of stupidity.
freedom to flaunt stupidity even.
My country is 900 years old and my people has inhabited these lands before the romans ever dreamed of set foot here.
That is plain ignorance.
And how long has your current form of governance been in play? Money says not 250 years.
Are we speaking of government or established nation with defined borders in the original post?
As I understand it, it is refering to nation, not government.
sure, but the person in the OP is foolishly conflating nations and states
That is not what defines its existence as a country though. If so then the US only dates to the 1990s with its latest constitutional amendment.
It is wild to me how Americans forget that they built their “nation” upon the genocide of earlier (first) nations, which were there for thousands of years.
Genocide has been a frequent practice for thousands of years, ever since the standard social unit was the tribe and one tribe would massacre another. Whole populations have been “put to the sword”. The Americas are probably the largest single area, but if you really knew your history it would seem just as wild that Europeans and others around the world have forgotten about this.
Americans were straight up humane in their genocide vs. historical examples. Hell, I’d say Israel is doing worse today, not even pretending to make treaties, move people about, nothing.
“Straight up humane?” Dude in the 1800s there were times when people shot natives from passing trains for amusement. It’s not a contest about who did it more nicely.
All I’m saying is that human history is full of far worse genocides than the Americans pulled on Native Americans.
Sure… Gaza is worse off that Hiroshima and Nagasaki!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
A 1975 U.S. Senate subcommittee estimated around 1.4 million civilian casualties in South Vietnam because of the war, including 415,000 deaths. An estimate by the Department of Defense after the war gave a figure of 1.2 million civilian casualties, including 195,000 deaths
The Israel-Hamas war has less than 0.003% of the casualties the US inflicted on Vietnam. That’s not to say the Israel-Hamas War isn’t a bad thing (all wars are) but just trying to snap you back from historical revisionism.
Vietnam had 16 times the population of Gaza at the time. So your 1.4 million ends up being 87,500 if you keep the ratio and that’s over 20 years. Israel has passed 50,000 in less then 2 years.
Also, the fact that you can compare the current situation to what happened in Vietnam and Japan should give you a hint that you are defending the wrong party. This is far from the win you think it is. Defending those things would be unimaginable, you should think about what that means.
It’s not the Israel-Hamas War, it’s the genocide of the Palestinian people by a vile warmongering apartheid state.
I wouldn’t say casualties really matter when it comes to genocide, what matters is the intent. The US were quite happy to wipe out the Native Americans and didn’t exactly cry any tears as they did it, to the point where wiping out the Native Americans was such a sticking point to them that Britain demanding they not expand into Native American territory was actually a contributing factor to the Revolutionary War.
The Israelis pretend they aren’t interested in wiping out the Palestinians, but they aren’t exactly stopping the settlements driving out the remaining Palestinians and they’re certainly pretty keen on ensuring no Palestinian returns to Gaza when they inevitably annex the place. The intent is there, it’s just obfuscated.
I’d say they’re pretty similar, at least in terms of intent. Both nations want to expand because they believe it’s their god-given right to have that land, and the natives to that land need to either accept it or be ‘removed’.
I’m on your side, 95% of the way but I don’t think it’s fair to the victims in Japan, Vietnam, Palestine etc to be part of a ranking. Just like there are bigger and smaller infinities, there are larger and smaller amounts of casualties. But in comparison to large and small infinities, those numbers do not show the hurt these people went true. In Japan for example, some died in an instant where others went through decades of physical decay because of the damage radiation did. How can that be put in numbers and compared to what happened to people in Vietnam for example.
You can leave out a comparison with a ‘sure…you must have forgotten Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the 1.4 million civilian casualties in South Vietnam because of the war, including 415,000 deaths’ for example.
He is arguing in bad faith. His only goal is to make the actions of the state of Israel seem less extreme. That’s why he fails to mention the population differences and keeps using the term “Israel-Hamas war”.
If you check the modlog you find gems like:
The use of the word genocide is political.
Until that happens, Gaza should be treated like any fascist state that throws rockets at its neighbor.
Thanks, noted.
Gaza should be treated like any fascist state that throws rockets at its neighbor.
0 fucks given for actual people living there indeed. Wow.
Thanks for checking that out
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Interesting - I said “frequently” without any specific numbers, but apparently your non-numbers are lower. My bad.
Not really. The logic is attempting to draw a distinction between nations, kingdoms, and tribes, among other things, with emphasis on continuity in governance. So France isn’t the same nation between the Revolution and the Napoleonic Empire, or after a dynasty change.
The interjection is pointless towards their argument because it doesn’t understand the “logic” and is wrong in its own way.
His problem is that, as a truly stupid person, he isn’t aware that the point he is trying to make is one reserved specifically for democracies, not nations, and is still wrong. The Roman Republic lasted for 482 years, just to start with the most famous “democratic” example, and Japan’s government could be argued to have lasted 2,600 years depending on how much credit you want to give the mythological founding of their imperial family.
Further, the modern form of the United Kingdom government was founded in 1707. There have been changes, obviously, especially in the power balance between Lords and Commons, but the Acts of Union created what is indisputably a modern concept of nation and government.
The UK was founded in 1707. The British crown family is even older than that.
“british” crown family.
Yeah, I just added that funnily enough.
Confederations of indigenous tribes qualify as nations by any reasonable definition. Most were democracies. Some still exist as sovereign democratic nations today.
Yeah I considered bringing that up but it’s also not accurate to paint all the regional groups in that way. In hindsight I probably should have mentioned the Five/Six Nations at least.
Just takes one to disprove the original point that no nation is older than 250 years.
Rome lasted for 2,000 years because I consider the Byzantines as true Romans.
So did they, “byzantine empire” is a modern conceit
Depending on who you ask, some might even say that Rome still IS
ROMA INVICTA
There is an island in the Aegean where they identified as Roman until 1912
The 250 year thing is basically complete BS
.
i think the first poster misunderstood a quote and I can’t reproduce it anymore either. it was something about no empire lasted more then 250 years? or no government form or something among these lines? it was not about the country disapearing in name or anything, but that it damatically changes in one way or another like completly changing the form of government
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Even that’s a very obvious fallacy though
I remember it as most empires collapse before or around 250 years. If I remember the quote correctly it mentioned most not all, and empire not nation or country.
I believe the ottoman empire (1299–1922) would like a word.
Man, imagine being so fucking dense you literally ignore the nation that created yours, which is still around. Inglun? Wazzat?
About 15 years ago, I got to go on a road trip across the states. 6 weeks, driving from east coast to west coast.
On more than one occasion, when we were inevitably asked where we were from and dutifully replied “England.”, we were met with utterly blank stares.
“Uhhhhhhhh, Engerland?” “You mean New England? Never met anyone from there before…”
“No, England. Old England. The original England, capital city, London. That England.”
“London? That’s just north of here… I don’t get it.”
I swear, the sheer ignorance and lack of basic understanding of the geography of our world was fucking staggering in some places. Not always the armpit of nowhere “towns” either.
The first part is believable, you are talking straight out of your ass for the second. No one, not even the most inbred, hillbilly, hicks, would think “USA” when they hear “London”.
And before anyone starts with “well there are lots of stupid people in the world, I can see this happening” no you fucking can’t. Because NO ONE would associate London with the US rather than the UK.
I guess youve never been to Kentucky.
Or Oklahoma 💀💀💀
There’s even a London there.
We went to Kentucky. A nice fella who we played EVE Online with back then invited us to swing by for BBQ and Bourbon.
Didn’t really hang about otherwise though so can’t comment on the average local’s temperament. We had a lot of ground to cover :)
There are people in the US for whom the whole world is whatever region they’re currently living in. Sounds like they encountered some of those.
You seriously overestimate your countrymen. We were just about to cross the Canadian border, if that helps you wrap your head around it. London, Ontario was some ways north. We actually went through it for the laughs, after the interaction with the moron. 💛
I wonder what i would get if i say my region
I’m not saying this didn’t happen. But as an American myself, I find this bizarre. I was born and raised in Texas, and I can’t recall ever meeting someone who didn’t know what England is. Though I guess if you are visiting from England, the topic is more likely to come up.
I’m also convinced that every country has absolute morons within their populations. Our American morons are just louder than most.
Pfffft. Texas was one of the worst.
Despite being the oldest of the group at 25, not one, but two different restaurants in Texas refused me alcohol on the basis they thought both my British Driving Licence (a biometric photo-ID) and my Passport were fake as they’d never heard of Britain.
That and the entire fucking state stinks of oil. You can smell it before you cross the state line, and the smell fades as you leave, it’s bizarre.
There are some really dense people, who actively avoid learning anything at all.
I guarantee you could find American citizens who have never heard of Donald Trump.
I kinda envy them if so. To be so oblivious or isolated to not see the country crumbling around us…
I have had exactly the same experience. “Where’s England?”… “Errrrmmm, Europe…?”
You know the language you’re speaking? It’s from there.
I got asked what state New Zealand was in. I felt my American tour had been worth it at that point.
Ha ha, one guy I met guessed Wisconsin. I was told I spoke very good English.
England would like a word. It formed in 927 AD. That means it is 1,098 years old.
Colloseum: Am I joke to you?
