If you don’t like trump and you didn’t vote, then you’re to blame.
My country has compulsory voting so nobody has an excuse
If my country had compulsory voting and my choices were trump and harris I would have voted for mickey mouse. Or do they send somebody in with you to vote for an approved candidate? Because that doesn’t sound like anyplace I’d be interested in living
If my country had compulsory voting and my choices were trump and harris I would have voted for mickey mouse.
A stunning example of exactly the kind of performative pro-genocide bullshit that put us in this mess. Wonderful.
You’re taking to a foreigner, the election’s long over, and you never helped the Democrat’s cause with your edge-lord ass comments.
Not
fuggen
once
No, the Republicans putting up a shitty, awful, terrible candidate that was somehow more likeable than the Democrat’s shitty, awful, terrible candidate, who came in on the coattails of another shitty, awful, terrible candidate was what put us into this mess.
I’ll never accept the claim that Trump was more likable than anyone; no matter how many Take That critiques people can sling about anyone on the Democratic party.
I don’t think he was more likeable, but enough people did that they voted him into office. It doesn’t really matter whether you accept that or not.
Where are you from? How it works where I’m from, is that you’re required to go vote. What you fill out on the paper is no one’s business.
Just put in a blank paper. Turn up because it’s your duty by being a citizen. We live in a society, not as individuals. People who want to live in isolation and not affect anyone else are welcome to fuck off to the middle of the ocean for all I care.
Compulsory voting retains majority of Australians’ support, because it makes voter suppression incredibly difficult.
It’s SOOOO easy to vote here it’s not even funny. We can partially thank compulsory voting for keeping it that way.
If they tried to make voting harder, everyone would be pissed off, since they’re required to vote. Good luck getting such a reform to stick…
Unlike in some certain countries where apparently you’re not allowed to give water out to voters in certain states.
Wild. Dumb. Much freedom to not vote 👌
Compulsory voting is great. We love it (well, most of us think it’s a good thing. I love it, personally)
Is you didn’t vote for Harris, you’re to blame.
No, it’s the Republicans who are to blame. The Democratic leadership is to blame for not putting up a candidate or policies that the voters wanted.
It’s always amazing to me that people will blame the people who couldn’t stomach to vote for the Democrats, rather than getting mad at the Democratic leadership for being so awful that people can’t stomach to vote for them.
Yeah I agree. I see a lot of folks out here victim blaming rather than critiquing the folks with the most power.
True! One is an ocean of random people with their own beliefs, reasons and personal choices. The other is an institution. An organization with a plan. A plan they wrote themselves. A plan they get detailed statistics and polling data on. A plan in which they saw what they needed to do to win and chose not to, effectively betting on anti trump sentiment to keep them from doing the thing parties in their position are supposed to do. Concede to the people and make concessions. Instead they said “status quo, steady as she goes” mid genocide, mid rent crisis, post covid and they lost that bet. No one is to blame other than the gamblers who played power politics and lost to fascists.
The people are not an organized voting block able to strategically maneuver their votes. That’s what a party is for. That’s it’s whole purpose. And the Democrats failed as a party in that election due to their inability to stop committing a genocide, to stop pandering to mid right voters via radio silence on trans issues and active abandonment of immigrants via the adoption of 2016 trump immigration policy.
I mean come the fuck on, she was talking about FINISHING THE FUCKING WALL, the thing we all agreed was the dumbest thing ever. What do you want when the party runs someone like that?
I get you people who wanna blame the leftist in your life or on the Internet you saw saying they wouldn’t be voting. I get that you blame them. But you should blame the party who thought they could win without conceding anything whatsoever to any of the marginalized groups who had no other choice. They learned that there in fact was a 3rd choice and now we all suffer the Democrats incompetence
I didn’t vote, and it doesn’t matter that I didn’t vote.
There are mass counties that had 0 Harris Votes and all DT. This is a statistical impossibility. On top of the already impossible results we’ve seen with the election anomaly all point together at obvious voting fraud. The election didn’t happen as you think it happened, it happened because billionaires conspired together to put a lunatic at the helm.
Hope you’re enjoying the current democratic backsliding the USA is experiencing. It’s partially your fault for letting it happen.
Can we do ranked choice primaries?
Of course they will. Either pick them or they’ll send it all to hell. Even now they probably think this Trump stint will make voters desperate for their next candidate.
Captive audience, it’s why they felt so confident cozying up to Republicans like the Cheneys, because what are the left going to do, not vote?
It’s great really, you perpetuate a problem and constantly blame the people trying to actually bring about much needed change for the problem.
many of the DInos benefit from the same donors as the gop, im betting the megadonors at least implied threatening to cut them off if they dont support trump.
AOC is a clear choice, I’d say Bernie but I’m already tired of old people in power.
AOC is young, in touch with actual issues, in touch with the generations that are moving the economy, knows the struggle since she used to be a waitress and so far I haven’t seen her go crazy on anyone else’s agenda or buying stocks and enriching herself beyond measure like damn old hag Pelosi.
If Josh Shapiro wins the nomination I will not vote for him, I cannot stand this nonsense, this is absolute insanity. How the hell are modern Democrats less progressive than FDR (and he was a massive racist), we are a century ahead yet we are centuries behind. Now we’re fighting over which fascist is more palatable so when can whitewash them and call them progressive. I voted for Kamala in 2024 but NOT AGAIN, I will NOT vote for another mild flavor of fascism lite.
“They will put up x candidates I dislike”
Vote in the fucking primaries then, holy shit. Make a progressive win the primaries for the love of God please
Vote in the fucking primaries then, holy shit.
They won’t.
Really, how do we get viable third parties? How do we change the voting system to not have " spoiler candidates "? The binary is rotting us.
Not by going directly for a moonshot at the presidency. You spend years getting people involved in local politics, then work your way up. State and local governments have power, even if it’s “boring”.
That or a coup or other violent, abrupt, wildcards.
Local government isn’t boring. It’s infuriating. It’s like if you gave the worst HOAs a police force.
Whatever it is, most people don’t engage with it.
I tried to and then realized that they can’t actually help with the main things I want changed, and that they’re just sad little kings of sad little hills.
You go out and work in the primaries.
Look at AOC. The guy she ousted was a mainstay of the NY Democratic Party for decades.
If you wait until the general election you get no input.
But that’s not the end of it as this still maintains the binary. First, what are the measures for getting third parties on the ballot? Second, how do we get rid of the fptp system so that we can actually vote for candidates we like, rather than the lesser of two evils?
Edit: I responded too quickly at work, and fixed it up later.
I’m no fan of FPTP, but let’s not put the cart before the horse.
You aren’t going to change the rules for the 2026 primaries.
Concentrate on what is doable.
1000% this. Half our problem is people bitching that their perfect candidate is not an option, and that they don’t want to vote ‘against’ someone.
The time to be active is NOW, not complaining about your choices in October 2028. Left media isn’t helping here, since they want to complain about how the election is still years away and yet we’re talking about potential candidates… YES, we are. If you’re not talking now, then you’re not in the conversation. Is it great to have a 24x365x4 political cycle? hell no. But is it what we have? yes.
Join your local democratic organization and get familiar with how things work. Help choose a ‘not fascist’ candidate for now and push for better down the line.
If you’re here, reading this, and you want things to be better, then you have two choices: vote blue no matter who (ceding your choice to others who are involved), or get involved and be part of the decision of ‘who’ is blue.
how do we get viable third parties?
By having a third party that’s willing to put in the work and do things the right way.
So, instead of having a do-nothing candidate like Jill Stein who shows up right before every election, then disappears again after only obtaining a half of a single percent of the total votes, we’d have to have a third party that started focusing on winning local/state elections. That would allow them to start having more than ZERO members in the houses of Congress, which is currently the case. And once they have members in Congress, from various districts around the country, then they’d have a real chance at running a presidential candidate who can win.
Make no mistake. Anyone that currently votes for a 3rd party candidate for president is an utter fool. And there are A LOT of them on Lemmy. A 3rd party cannot win. They are nowhere near winning. Because they haven’t put in the work to create a coalition to actually start having a presence in our government.
Don’t neglect that Stein was a Russian plant to spoil the election. Follow the money and Stein’s activities pre and post election.
Yeah, it was pretty obvious.
But whether she was or not, a 3rd party candidate for president can only serve to split votes and increase the possibility of the worst candidate winning. And that will be the case until a 3rd party starts getting serious and getting representatives in Congress.
It’s a literal joke to vote for a 3rd party candidate when they don’t even have reps in either house of Congress. Do the people who vote 3rd party not think about what would happen if one magically won when they have no one from their party in Congress to help achieve their agenda?
How? Probably not via voting in 2028 or holding a sign. As in, not within the pre-existing failing/failed system. This one isn’t gonna recover.
After the people are in charge of the smouldering ashes, you can start from scratch! The one upside. Assuming USA doesn’t just submit passively and end up like Russia with a broken people for centuries, which is what I’m expecting.
Copy Canadians. Including the limits on campaign length, so your news cycle isn’t so endlessly exhausting. No wonder 1/3rd have totally tuned out. IMO scrap FPTP like we didn’t have the balls to do.
I guess that’s the crux of the question: does it really require smoldering ashes to get this done? Entrenched power is obviously tough times, but within the system we currently have what are the possibilities?
Not sure anyone really knows yet. I’m a pessimist by nature, so there’s blind spots and I freely admit them.
1.) Federally and statewide, you’ve got to vote for the party that isn’t making Ranked Choice or Star voting illegal, for starters.
2.) Locally, third parties have to actually run local candidates. They are a vanity party otherwise.
If you can’t manage those two things, math & chaos theory guarantees that you’ll never have a 3rd party.
I want Approval Votingand Sequential Proportional Approval Voting, but will support any electoral reform referendum or bill.
And when those get enough name recognition with the electorate, the GOP will start passing bills to make them illegal in red states.
Have you considered just having like a local group organized around something like pro-labor or just the community in general.
Elect officers or organize how you think best. Call meeting invite guess to speak to issues you all like. When elections come around try to solicit questions to all the campaigns. Have the organization vote as a group on who to endorse or not at all.
If it’s worth the effort, work the campaigns for the folks you all endorse.
More people did that stuff then starting a third party in state would be easy. From there you go forward. If you do well or brand then you may have others in their region wanting to do the same. National two parties are federations of these groups with more binding Charters.
Many States have these hurdles for recognized political parties but they can’t stop folks from just organizing how they want.
What you need is a Bernie Sanders funding his own political party, then recruit the AOC and likes. Then they constantly for 20 years present on themselves and refuse to compromise with Democrats and call them on their bullshit whatsoever.
But idk why they didn’t do it sad for you
We’re nowhere near to it. It has to be a grassroots effort from convincing all of our population it is necessary. Because neither the DNC or the RNC really want it. More parties means they lose power. The DNC pretends to not be opposed, but they undermine third parties all the time. We have to fix first past the post, and neither party is going to help with that.
You push for ranked choice voting initiatives in your state. You grow the party locally, get people into city councils, state legislatures, the house of reps before gunning for the presidency.
We have no third party candidates in the house, an institution with 435 members + some extra non voting ones. There’s a few non-affiliated, but no true third parties. If you can’t get someone in there, you shouldn’t bother wasting time and money on the presidency.
I’m a progressive, but also a pragmatist and a realist, and I find these kind of complaints unhelpful and naive. Politics is a blood sport and it always has been. No one is going to hand AOC the reins of power. She has to win them, and her opponents aren’t going to play fair. This is, sadly, how the game is played. Don’t mourn. Organize!
and conspire to defeat whatever progressive is winning, even though they’ll be the only one that can defeat trump’s third term
Okay but the point is they should’ve been able to run a wet paper bag against Trump and win.
Dems chose someone worse than a wet paper bag.
It wasn’t the wrong candidate, it was the wrong campaign.
The Dems stood in front of an electorate crippled by 4 years of rising cost of living and said “Look how good the economy is! GDP is up! Employment is up!” The electorate said “We can’t afford eggs,” and the Dems said “Shut the fuck up our economy is great how dare you say otherwise you worthless peasant!”
The Dems never stopped to consider that high GDP is meaningless if all the money ends up in the hands of billionaires and high employment is meaningless if everyone is working three jobs to make rent. Biden refused to allow any daylight between himself and Kamala on any issue, so they ended up just presenting a new wrapper on the same shit sandwich.
Trump meanwhile said “I hear you, everything is too expensive. I’ll solve it by blaming immigrants and doing some magic involving something called tariffs that I promise will make everything cheaper.” Now, none of that is actually a solution, but that didn’t matter, because when you yell “Help, I’m drowning!” and one person says “No you’re not”, while the other says “Yes you are and it’s because of brown people…” you don’t really listen to anything past the “Yes you are,” because the point is they apparently want to help you and the other person doesn’t. Trump didn’t need to have workable solutions, because the Dems forfeited the entire contest before it even started. Trump just had to show up and sit in the chair.
I dunno. Pretty sure a wet paper bag would have been better than a felon rapist traitor who’s shitting on our Constitution and tanking our economy.
Right, that’s why they were worse.
🔴
Tim Waltz is your best bet here. White man, can peel off MAGA for change but still stay “pure”. We have to get past the deep south rooted haters that hate POC, women and anything not white/Christian.
Obama was the Trump of the Dem party. Now you gotta play balance, sadly.
Writing was on the wall here. Need to get rid of the dinosaurs to have any chance at all.
Did you listen to the latest tiff between David Hogg and James Carville?
Carville really wants to push progressives out of the Democratic party while keeping their heads in the sand. I think his last rant was because Hogg wants to replace existing Dems (Carville says he should be replacing Republicans). However, I think Hogg wants to do this because these Dems aren’t really doing anything and waiting to pick up the pieces from this Trump administration. I think agree more with Hogg that it’s more important to show the people that you represent them rather than be like: “we’re not the Republicans”.
I’m not an entire fan of Hogg though, he seems a bit inconsistent but I agree with him here.
To be clear, people should have voted for the Democrats. We’re all in the position we’re in because not enough people did. Would you get what you want? No. But we still wouldn’t be in the mess otherwise. I mean, assuming the election wasn’t stolen.
That being said, all these older people that don’t seem interested in fighting for their people need to be purged from the Democrats. I don’t know if it’s because they’re really old or out of touch or what. There’s a thirst for people to want representation for them to fight (as seen by the AOC and Bernie rallies). I think their inactivity isn’t helping for the most part. Also, they need to get some more names out there.
Yeah, I’ve been low-key following this drama and Hogg is out there spearheading the “tea party style takeover” that people have been saying the DNC needs. Carville, Schumer, and Co. seem to think that letting the republicans off the leash to blow up everything and hurt everyone is the best path forward. Put another way, the plan is to continue offering shitty corpocentrism and hope that voters prefer corpocentrism (clothed fascism) over naked fascism again in two and four years. Fuck that and fuck them, Hogg can take my energy and blast those fossilized assholes with a spirit bomb.
It’s because the democrats simply cannot fund-raise on the kind of populist progressive policy Americans actually want.
Democrats are up schitt’s creek without a paddle - they can’t fund-raise without the support of the large donor-class, and their increasingly populist progressive base are simply not satisfied by the kind of economic policies those donors are desperate to preserve.
If democrats stay this course they will never hold more than 45% of congress again and only win the white house maybe once every 3 or 4 terms.
I’ve brought it up on other Lemmy comments, but one thing I really want to work on with messaging is “Eat the rich”.
Case in point: Elon Musk is evil. He’s a toe-sucking narcissist who can’t stand that South Africa ended apartheid. He’s a loser that can’t beat the first Path of Exile boss. He’s…make up your own insult, and I’ll likely echo it. But what I can’t stand is commenters saying that anyone and everyone possessing as much money as him is equally evil. Basically the equivalent of so many school “Zero tolerance” policies.
Musk is evil for his actions, not just for personality. Yes, a large number of rich people are also evil - there’s logic behind that venn intersection. But capitalism is our system, even if we decide we want to start changing it. Past the big names of horrible people that have lobbied the system for their own interests, many rich people are just…quiet outside of their main successful ventures. One very ready playbook of the far right is to point out how many Democrats - even honest ones that have made excellent changes - are evil simply for having net worth in the millions. As long as “Eat the rich” is a popular slogan, it tends to work, and convince donors that progressives are out to hunt them down with axes.
My take on a better message would be: We all want a better world. Have you ever wandered the streets of venice, wishing you could have that nice communal feel back in America - unburdened by homeless people, dirty streets, or traffic? This is our goal. House the homeless. Clean the streets, and encourage recycling. Put people on public transit. Progressives will tax you more to make that work, but will make a better world for it; one where people don’t need to hire private security to protect from betrayed employees, or shelter in an SUV to go two blocks. If you’re a businessman, vote Republican. If you’re an honest businessman, vote Democrat.
The message could use some work, but perhaps you get the idea.
All the career federal employees that have lost their jobs because of Musk numbers in the thousands. Their knowledge, skills and experience with federal programs just wiped out because of that freak. The true cost of this is just beginning. Nothing is going to work soon.
But what I can’t stand is commenters saying that anyone and everyone possessing as much money as him is equally evil. Basically the equivalent of so many school “Zero tolerance” policies.
The existence of billionaires while millions of people are starving and homeless is the evil those commenters are pointing to.
Almost as if those people are upset about a system that valorizes and encourages immense wealth inequality, and not, like, which people get to be billionaires.
But what I can’t stand is commenters saying that anyone and everyone possessing as much money as him is equally evil.
There is no ethical way of acquiring a billion dollars. Get on board with that concept.
That doesn’t mean their evilness is *equal", but it does mean they are all evil. Even popular rich people like Warren Buffett, Gabe Newell, or Taylor Swift are evil for conducting the kind of systematic exploitation necessary to acquire a billion dollars worth of financial assets from consumers and workers.
We need confiscatory top-tier income taxes. We need securities taxes to drive the ultra-rich to pull their wealth out of financial assets. We don’t need to restrict them from acquiring products and services produced by workers: their mansions and yachts and private jets are not the problem. Those purchases all paid worker salaries.
The problem is their portfolio, not their stuff: every item in those portfolios is designed to siphon consumer dollars away from workers. We can, and should, claw back against such excessive exploitation .
If democrats stay this course they will never hold more than 45% of congress again and only win the white house maybe once every 3 or 4 terms.
Yeah I’m feeling that.
You bring up really good points. How do you go to the large donors and say, “give us more money to help take more money from you”.
I’m greedy. I want the live in a clean and safe society. Empirical data exists that shows one way to achieve this is the Scandinavian model; high tax funding social services.
At least, that’s how I dress it up.
Hogg wants to replace old, “do nothing” incumbents with younger versions of Pelosi, Clinton, Jeffries.
Hogg wants young, centrist, corporatist Democrats, not progressives.
Because they win elections in purple districts. Try running AOC in North Carolina.
removed by mod
Harris represented the Democratic party, but conceded numerous Republican talking points like immigration, highlighted that she was a gun owner, and campaigned with the Cheneys. Kamala refused to take a strong stance on Gaza giving little more than lip service to Palestinians and their supporters, rarely talked about ideas like universal healthcare or wealth inequality, and dismissed the general concerns about the economy.
Voters failed, yes. They failed to turn out and prevent the obvious danger of another Trump presidency or were ignorant enough to vote for him. However, the Democratic leadership also failed. They hid the state of Joe Biden from the public until the last minute. They failed to engage their base and, for the third election in a row, boosted a middling candidate over progressive candidates and then relied on negative campaigni against Trump to provide enough of a turnout.
Every time a progressive candidate has run in a primary they lost. The American public is one Facebook ad away from voting for a face eating Leopard. If they really wanted universal Healthcare they would have voted it by now. Voters failed, the dems run with the candidate that had the most chances of winning. And then the voters failed again. Twice.
obama really broke the minds of conservatives, couldnt accept a half-black, muslim as a president.
Conservatives don’t participate in democrat primaries, do they?
But he is a Christian?
When a progressive candidate runs in a primary, the party itself sabotages them. The party leadership and party-favored candidates lie about the policies. The party prioritizes centrists with their funding.
The American public is one Facebook ad away from voting for a face eating Leopard.
In part, yes. I am arguing that you can’t ignore the fact that the democratic party itself paid for that Facebook ad.
My point is that there’s no amount of ads that would make people in Europe vote against universal Healthcare. In the US it seems that people are so ignorant that ad budget determines election outcomes. People don’t really want progressive policies, they are content with bread and circus.
That’s an extremely flawed take. Europeans wouldn’t vote against universal healthcare because Europe has experienced universal healthcare for decades. It spread throughout Europe in an extremely transformative time - while rebuilding from the destruction of WWII.
Americans are far more isolated than Europeans in many ways, and that also prevents us from truly understanding these kinds of issues. You can visit another country like we visit another state. This lets you experience so much more diversity of ideas than America gets.
Americans are fed lies by everyone around them because the lies let those in power keep power and make more money. We’ve been slowly drained of our ability to flourish. We spend an increasing amount of effort just surviving. We’re stressed and tired of the political turmoil, which lets politicians further strip us of our power.
I won’t deny that there are stupid, racist, willfully ignorant people here. I just don’t blame them for all of their ignorance. In order to learn, you need to be given the resources and opportunity to do so. Those in power here have worked very hard and spent a lot of money trying to prevent them from getting those things and feeding them lies about an alternate reality that maintains the status quo or further empowers the ruling class.
I don’t understand why it’s a flawed take, I don’t disagree with anything you have written, we pretty much are saying the same thing.
In the US it seems that people are so ignorant that ad budget determines election outcomes. People don’t really want progressive policies, they are content with bread and circus.
There is a difference between being “content with bread and circus” and being deliberately psychologically overwhelmed and subjected to propaganda for generations. I have no illusions that, as victims, we need to be saved. We must save ourselves. Still, I think that compassion is required. Telling people they are too stupid and impotent to stand up for themselves will just make them defensive.
If you are in Europe and just want to feel better about yourself then have at it. Just don’t forget that wannabe Nazis are making a come back there too, and if powerful people in the US can get rich with this strategy you might be next.
i felt the israel thing has much less of effect on voters than you think, maybe in Michigan, but both parties wholely support the genocide, so theres not much issue there. its the constant attack by msm on biden and harris throughout the campaign
i felt the israel thing has much less of effect on voters than you think
Ok. I’m sorry you feel that way.
For the record, I voted for her because she wasn’t Trump. As a voter, I didn’t much appreciate being assigned a Democratic candidate instead of given a chance to vote for one. I was even less thrilled about her insistence on cozying up to the likes of Liz Cheney because the DNC arrogantly thought they could court Republicans who didn’t like Trump. Add in her denial that there’s a genocide going on in Palestine or that the average American was economically hurting despite a booming stock market and you could probably see why not many people liked her.
I like that America chose to microscopically analyze and criticize Harris while a felon rapist traitor who shits on our Constitution and tanks our economy waltzed into the Oval Office.
Sounds like you ended up making the right decision, but so many others didn’t. Couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Because America is dumb.
Right, Harris was a good candidate, that’s why her primary campaign lasted all the way to december of 2019.
So your point is that it should have been Biden?
No, there should have been a primary.
At this point I don’t think it would’ve mattered. Maybe Biden would’ve been kicked out sooner but the primary would’ve still ended with a boilerplate democrat candidate. It wasn’t Harris who lost the campaign, it was the poor campaign strategy put together by the DNC.
Maybe not, but instead they actively avoided their constituents
If they had run a primary, there would have been far more air time on the issues voters were upset about instead of the neutered politics they ended up running on
hard to do with only 3 months, and legally they cannot give the campaign money to another candidate that biden had already raise throughout the year.
Biden had been sitting below 40% approval basically since 2022, they had plenty of time to realize they needed a stronger candidate (OR he had plenty of time to address the concerns of protestors). Instead he waited until the last minute and he pressured Harris to keep his platform.
If you want someone to blame, i’d start there.
You do know the DNC doesn’t run presidential campaigns, right? They funnel money to the campaign, but the campaigns are run by campaign managers hired by the candidates.
It’s no use. Americans would much rather place blame on a candidate, one that was INFINITELY better than the other, than accept responsibility as an electorate for failing.
Harris was perfectly fine. A successful prosecutor with a doctorate in law. She would have continued a progressive agenda. She would have maintained economic stability. I’m sure it wouldn’t have been as progressive as many would like, but certainly better than our current state of affairs with a president who shits all over our Constitution and is tanking our economy 3 months in.
The bottom line is the American electorate failed an open book test. Too many fools who chose to become single issue voters. Too many fools who thought it would be wise to vote for a 3rd party in a presidential election, despite having literally ZERO chance of winning. Too many fools who abdicated their responsibility as citizens in a democracy because they weren’t pleased with their options. This was one of, if not the easiest, election we’ll ever have in our lives. And we failed. Because we aren’t a very intelligent society.
She ran hard to the right, abandoning all of her previously stated progressive beliefs. She would have continued the shitty economy that Americans were upset with. She said she wouldn’t do anything different than a highly unpopular president.
Of course Americans blame the candidate, as they should. Her entire job was to get elected, opposing one of the least popular presidents we’ve ever had, and she lost. It should have been a slam dunk for her, but she gave all of that up, for money and genocide.
She ran hard to the right
I think you and I have a different definition of “hard right”. If you think Harris was “hard right”, what would you consider our current situation?
She would have continued the shitty economy that Americans were upset with.
I think you and I have a different definition of “shitty economy”. If you thought we had a “shitty economy” under Biden, what would you consider our current situation?
She said she wouldn’t do anything different than a highly unpopular president.
You can listen to dumbasses who thought Biden was some awful president, whose qualifications for believing so are their feelings, or you can do your homework and find out that he was actually a progressive and legislatively successful president who passed some really beneficial bills for the American people.
Have you spoken to an average American? They don’t know jack shit about politics. They don’t keep up with legislation. They don’t pay attention to statistics. And you’re telling me that American’s failure to pay attention, like responsible citizens in a democracy, is a single candidate’s fault? That because she may not have run the best campaign possible that it isn’t American’s fault for allowing an already failed felon rapist traitor to be our leader…again?
Our society is a reflection of our electorate. It sucks because our electorate is largely idiotic. Not because one candidate didn’t run a perfect campaign against a felon rapist.
I think you and I have a different definition of “hard right”. If you think Harris was “hard right”, what would you consider our current situation?
I would call our current situaion Extra Hard Right. Yeah, Trump is more right-wing than Harris, but lets not pretend that she was anything but right-wing. She campaigned on “Genocide is good, and we should keep bombing children, and I love my guns”, then campaigned with the Cheneys. That seems pretty hard right to me.
If you thought we had a “shitty economy” under Biden, what would you consider our current situation?
I would consider it shittier than Biden’s economy. Just because Trump’s economy is worse, doesn’t mean Biden’s wasn’t shitty.
You can listen to dumbasses who thought Biden was some awful president, whose qualifications for believing so are their feelings, or you can do your homework and find out that he was actually a progressive and legislatively successful president who passed some really beneficial bills for the American people.
I did do my homework. I saw him bomb the shit out of innocent people, including children. I saw him back a genocide. I saw him screw over the rail-workers, bail out rich corporations, back down on the minimum wage, drag his feet on the lowest of student-debt fixes, and cut the highly popular Covid Relief programs. Did he do some good things that I liked? Sure. But those were crumbs compared to all of the awful stuff that he did.
Have you spoken to an average American? They don’t know jack shit about politics. They don’t keep up with legislation. They don’t pay attention to statistics.
Of course Americans don’t know shit about politics or statistics or legislation. That’s how politics works. But Americans know that they are getting screwed, and they saw Biden in office while they were getting screwed. Does that make Trump a better candidate? No, obviously not, but Americans were mad, and saw Harris say that she didn’t think she’d have changed anything that Biden had done. Not a smart move when Biden was so unpopular.
And you’re telling me that American’s failure to pay attention, like responsible citizens in a democracy, is a single candidate’s fault? That because she may not have run the best campaign possible that it isn’t American’s fault for allowing an already failed felon rapist traitor to be our leader…again?
No, I’m telling you that it’s the single candidate’s fault that she lost the election. She could have run a campaign that addressed the voter’s concerns, but instead she ran a campaign that addressed the concerns of the rich, and the concerns of the right-wing. And “not run the best campaign possible” is a far cry from what I saw. I saw her run an absolutely terrible campaign.
I do blame the people who voted for Trump. They are awful people and I consider them quite stupid. But lets not let Harris or the rest of the Democrats off the hook for their own failures.
The Democrats are still in “Blame anyone, as long as we don’t have to introspect” mode right now, and it shows. Maybe next time they should try listening to the voters if they want to win the majority of them over.
but lets not pretend that she was anything but right-wing
She’s part of an organization that regularly votes for liberal policies and against conservative policies and regularly speaks out against right-wing politics. Can you give some examples of why you believe she is right-wing?
She campaigned on “Genocide is good, and we should keep bombing children, and I love my guns”,
It’s hard to take you seriously when you make emotional comments like this. Pretty sure here in reality she didn’t run on “genocide is good”. More like “Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East, so this is complicated”.
then campaigned with the Cheneys
If some right-wing mega stars want to come out in opposition to Trump and what their party has become, I’m not entirely against that. Did it end up making the difference? No. So what? How is it hard right to get someone on your enemy’s team to speak out against your enemy? Is everything hard right to you? Is hard right in the room with you right now?
doesn’t mean Biden’s wasn’t shitty.
Again, you haven’t done your homework. Put down Lemmy and start looking into the economic stats. Our economy was recovering well under the Biden administration. By all metrics. Which was impressive since a world wide pandemic destroyed supply lines, among other things.
I did do my homework.
It sounds like you’re just nitpicking things he didn’t do for you and not really acknowledging all the things he did. Which you can, and probably will do, with every president. Like student loans. No other president has forgiven student loans. He did. For many. Despite the Supreme Court blocking him at every turn. But in your eyes he just failed at student loans because he didn’t forgive as much as you wanted him to. Like you think he can just do whatever without any opposition from Congress or the SC. Spoiler alert, no president accomplishes everything you want them to. The one we have now will not accomplish ANYTHING you want him to.
Of course Americans don’t know shit about politics or statistics or legislation. That’s how politics works.
Lol. What? Do you think every electorate on this planet is as ignorant as the American electorate? Of course not. That’s why other first world countries have things like universal healthcare and paternal leave and mandatory paid vacation. What planet do you live on? Why are you making excuses for people failing to do their civic duty?
But Americans know that they are getting screwed, and they saw Biden in office while they were getting screwed.
Welcome to every presidency, ever. So you’re acknowledging that the American electorate is so ignorant and irresponsible, that if everything isn’t the way they want it, and they feel like they’re getting screwed in some way (which they will always feel), they’ll either throw their hands up and not vote, or vote in such a way as to ensure someone LESS competent is able to step in? So you’re agreeing with me that the fault lies with the American people for not informing themselves responsibly? That political candidates have to treat Americans like idiot children instead of grown ass responsible adults? Whose fault does that sound like?
but instead she ran a campaign that addressed the concerns of the rich, and the concerns of the right-wing.
Can you provide some examples, instead of just your feelings? Because I remember her eventually laying out her economic plan and how it benefitted the average person. Something Trump utterly failed to do. Keep in mind that this isn’t just about one candidate sucking off every last American for their vote. There’s also another candidate you have to take into account, and this one was a FELON RAPIST, so maybe Americans should take into account that they’re not just voting FOR someone, but AGAINST someone.
I saw her run an absolutely terrible campaign.
I saw her run a campaign INFINITELY better than her opponent. You know, since it actually included policy. Whereas the other guy simply said “I have concepts of plans”. The American people voted for a guy that straight up said he didn’t have a plan instead of a woman that laid her plan out. And you’re over here defending the American people and trying to deflect fault from them onto the ONLY candidate with a fucking plan? Please.
The only thing we agree on is that Democrats need to do a better job listening to their constituents going forward. But this last election is 100% on the American people. They failed. Because the differences in competency between the candidates (and parties) was so insane that for things to turn out the way they did is absolutely the American electorate’s fault. This was the easiest decision between two options EVER. And Americans failed.
For all of the things you complained about in this post, I already literally put in examples and explanations to prove the points. If you aren’t going to take this discussion seriously and read what I posted, then I’m not going to continue.
Come back when you want to have a good faith discussion.
This was one of, if not the easiest, election we’ll ever have in our lives
If you honestly believe this then the next 50 years are going to be a WILD ride for you
Yeah man I’m sure Winston Churchill, the drunken failure who lost his own easiest possible post WW2 election to Clement Attlee, is totally not blaming his loss to the voters and not his failure to run a proper public campaign.
Harris was a good candidate
Which is why she willingly chose to ignore millions of constituent demands, and banned an entire Democratic party ethnic base from partaking in the DNC because “fuck you, kiss Israel’s ass lol”.
And that defnitley didn’t backfire at all because voters love being told to eat shit and vote for the lesser evil, especially after not being able to participate in a primary where a candidate people actually wanted could at least be voted on.
spoiler
Seriously the actual stupidity to run a Churchill quote in response to voter demands is astounding, especailly because he got shrekt in 1945.
The bottom line is America isn’t going to jeopardize their allegiance with Israel. They’re our most important ally in the Middle East.
So what you’re really saying is you would have preferred if Democrats lied like Republicans and said during the election that they would put their foot down regarding Israel, only to take that back once elected.
And honestly, I would agree with you. So many dumbasses in this country chose to vote 3rd party or not vote because of the whole Israel/Palestine thing that now a felon rapist traitor who shits on our Constitution and tanks our economy is president. So yeah, I kinda wish Democrats just pulled a Republican move and blatantly lied about their intentions during the election and then walked it all back after winning.
Single issue voters/abstainers make me nauseous. Especially when so much is on the line.
And now we’re learning the hard way.
Democrats do lie about their intentions all the time. I saw Biden and Obama’s campaigns, and presidencies.
Harris was actually one of the most honest campaigns that the Democrats have run
So basically, whether Democrats lie or not, they lose because they’re held to a different standard and a felon rapist gets to sink our nation.
Man, what a stupid country.
Nah, I think they’re held to a pretty similar standard. They just did a worse job than Trump did when it came to acknowledging how shitty life has become for Americans.
The Republicans ran on “Everything is fucked. Fascism, genocide and racism are going to fix it.”
The Democrats ran on “Everything is great! But we’re gonna do genocide and draconian border policies more than they are.”
If the voting-base you are trying to win over is angry about how things are going, and you offer them a solution, they’ll likely vote for you. But if your voter-base is angry about how things are going, and you fight against what they want, then you probably aren’t gonna get many votes.
Nah, I think they’re held to a pretty similar standard.
There aren’t enough LOLs in the universe for me to respond to this. Like, this is one of the silliest comments I’ve ever read. If you honestly believe that both parties are held to similar standards, you are either super young and haven’t been around long enough to know better, or you just REALLY don’t pay attention. IMAGINE a Democrat president doing a FRACTION of what Trump has done, even just in the last 3 months. Not to mention the last presidency. Just IMAGINE it. IMAGINE Democrats in Congress saying things like what Marjorie Taylor Greene has said. They’d be fucking GONE. To say that both parties are held to a similar standard requires a level of ignorance I simply cannot fathom.
If the voting-base you are trying to win over is angry about how things are going, and you offer them a solution, they’ll likely vote for you.
How far back does your memory go? Donald Trump said he had “concepts of plans” which is him openly stating he doesn’t have a fucking plan. Meanwhile, Harris ended up laying out her economic plan. So only one candidate had a fucking plan, and Americans chose to vote for the one that didn’t. They also chose to vote for a FELON RAPIST instead of a literal fucking prosecutor with a doctorate in law.
STUPID. COUNTRY.
The bottom line is America isn’t going to jeopardize their allegiance with Israel. They’re our most important ally in the Middle East.
Liberals will never, for an instant, ask themselves why Israel is such an important ally - not even when confronted with a choice between standing behind them literally committing a genocide and allowing a felon rapist take office.
‘We can’t abandon our ally’ is the most lazy lie the state department has ever successfully sold their citizens completely unchallenged right next to ‘we’re looking for WMD’s’
I can understand why a German would think a far right cop was a good candidate in general, but no. She was a terrible candidate for anyone not voting republican.
Hey american socialist here.
Harris wasn’t that bad. Y’all are so extremely radicalized you can’t even admit a good candidate when you see one.
None of this shit would’ve happened that’s for sure
ICE was still a fascist organization when Obama and Biden were the head of the regime.
An antiblack cop that couldn’t win a primary is not a good candidate for the party whose voters include most black people and most anti cop people.
She was objectively a bad dem candidate. Like all California Dems she’s more right wing than any other Dem in the country and is only running Dem to pull the party right.
But we’re talking politics right?
So let’s look at our political line up. John McCain, Rashida Tlaib, Mitt Romney, Obama, Trump, Bush, Harris, Biden, Bernie Sanders, Ted Cruz, Desantis, Newsom, Ilhan Omar, Eric Adams, Booker, AOC, Clinton. Jill Stein, Greg Abbott, Marianne Williamson, Matt Gaetz
Just some names of people who rotate in the news cycle or had runs or whatever. Really truly consider who Americans could vote for and who could become president.
Now imagine you’re a progressive of any degree. Who has a chance to win and hits closest to your boxes? In 2020/2024 your options aren’t good. It’s cool to wish and pray for someone to come along and change that or be the person who would but realistically you shit in one hand and wish in the other, Harris is like top 3 options here. Sanders, Harris, Booker are who I’d gamble could make a run and maybe win against Trump. Harris being the weakest option and still not the worst.
Ever been part of a performance or sports team or anything? It’s really easy to shit on the situation when you’re in the bleachers.
Obama was completely unknown before he ran for president, with absolutely zero national air time or accomplishments.
The very foundation of your theory fails at the starting line. Name recognition isn’t important. Americans can’t name their own senators, much less random fox news featured senator number 41.
And this isn’t sports. That’s the problem, people treating it like sports.
Parties should be unconstitutional. Especially for president, but since we’re not there yet and won’t be until after the collapse, we should still not vote based on team. Vote blue no matter who got us Biden and trump. Its a terribly stupid, objectively fascist strategy that’s doomed to fail if not applied to fascist voters.
Okay and like I said shit in one hand wish in the other.
These are the names currently. Keep wishing bro
They are not the names that will win, so either accept that and start working on solutions, or repeat the actions that brought you closer to fascism.
Shitting in your hands will never fill them with food.
most of them cant admit that thier sexist, so they say “i dont like her, or she doesnt have any plans”
“american socialist”
pretty sure that’s an oxymoron.
exhibit A: Bernie Sanders
Why tell an ally that they don’t exist?
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How? I’d bet there is more talk of socialism in America than ever before and also likely here in America more than anywhere else right now.
the dnc did underestimate hispanics and black male voters, who are traditionally conservative and culturally sexist as well. of course the constant propaganda dint help harris: roegan and griftersd.
If that’s the case then we should just give up, because people are going to be fucking idiots like they’ve always been, so we’ll never get anyone good in office ever.
Isn’t there enough bad things happening right now to complain about? This is a totally imaginary scenario that is years away and you’re all ruining your day a little bit more by engaging with it.
WHY?
It is totally wasted energy. Total waste of time. Counter productive to your political goals. Encouraging a culture of fixating on problems you have no idea how to solve. Bonding over helplessness and apathy.
You know a lot of canvasers are thinking about ditching the dems and going independant? You could encourage them, you could become one of them, you could help give them arguments and counter narratives, make memes, shitpost for a good cause, post in mixed comment sections where half the people hate you and fish for an even mix of upvotes to downvotes - that’s how you know you’re reaching people! Take a little pleasure in becoming unbotherable.
Also, counter narratives are great because you don’t have to substantiate anything. ’ ICE is deporting random innocent people to fill quotas ’ - your move, rightoids, I spent five seconds writing that and one braincell. Zero effort and they might end up spending 100x the effort countering it. God knows I’ve been on the other side of that. It’s a brilliant rhetorical tactic.
You don’t even have to keep arguing, you can just post ‘sounds dumb’ or ‘bad argument’ or nothing at all and just leave!
Bots wouldn’t exist if posting comments on the internet didn’t do anything. And even doing nothing is better than perpetuating misery-posting culture in the online left.
Tony Benn said that the job of the left is to 1) anger people and 2) inspire hope. We need to get a lot better at the second one.
:edit:
Just to clarify, I also hate the Dems lmao
