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By all criteria, this a concentration camp. Not “concentration camp” as rhetorical inflation, or emotionally manipulative shorthand, or edgy metaphor—but as in: literally.
As in: detention without trial, state control, inhumane living conditions, forced labor, dehumanization, brutal violence, isolation from accountability, psychological torture, and—by every available logical extension—murder.
That last one we can’t yet verify in the strict evidentiary sense, but the circumstances suggest it like smoke suggests fire, and they are already trying to hide their actions and deny what is occurring.
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From Wikipedia:
“A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or minority ethnic groups, on the grounds of state security, or for exploitation or punishment.”
I’d say it tracks.
In all literal sense of the phrase: this is a concentration camp
The stated purpose of CECOT is to put people in violently cramped, close confinement with each other until they die.
It is a deathcamp.
Exactly it’s a death camp.
How is this all going so fast, tho? Didn’t it take the nazis a few years to get to this point?
No, Dachau concentration camp was started in March 1933, just a few months after Hitler took power.
The Nazis didn’t have the historical context of the Nazis’ rise to power to help guide them.
Nazis got to all the points they wanted so lightning-fast that nothing happening now can rival it.
That’s one of the reasons for the cultural shock about Nazis - everybody expected such processes to happen very slowly, in small flashes, as they do now. Thus them to be voted out or pressed out as a reaction, or at least for most potential victims to flee Germany, gradual pressure, compromise, all that.
Instead they came to power, almost momentarily changed the internal balance of power (of armed forces, their own paramilitary organizations, veteran organizations and such), anschlussed Austria, “solved unemployment” (organized massive programs of building autobahns and such, not very economically viable, but a symbol and a working mechanism), attracted investments (various scams on enormous scale, but the funds were attracted and it wasn’t all scams), scaled the military back to something realistic, performed successful rearmament programs … And built concentration camps. They started with something like Guantanamo almost immediately after coming to power, then didn’t lose any time to learn.
See, they had an apparatus, even a social layer of very well educated people, but with indoctrination of service and obedience, and the legacy of German science and industry and patriotism too. They broke that, but not before successfully using it for a lot of things.
That’s the problem with building good systems, they prevent idiots from learning who they are earlier. It’s the same with Sun and DEC and other legacy in tech. Everybody still uses their paradigms and products descended from theirs. Vision, architecture, aesthetic (only hidden somewhere deep). So everybody big has now IMHO wrong ideas about how to solve problems, but since everybody also uses solutions made by those who had right ideas 30-15 years ago, they don’t get the feedback. Today’s tech is a pile of crap reinforced with yesteryear grass, but it doesn’t fall apart in your hands because for the main problems you use solutions from a more civilized age.
While this was informative, I don’t quite understand the progressive change from concentration camps in nazi Germany to a fanatic escalating hate for… Uh… x86 architecture?
Sounds like a really, really wild ride to be on.
It’s a more general thought. Our actions do not have immediate visible consequences. Thus we can break everything and think we are winning.
Also on the subject of Nazis it does possess some value, they loved analogies between relevant modern techologies of their time and sociopolitical events. Where the word “anschluss” comes from, by the way. It literally translates like “connecting”, as with electricity. Well, electricity wasn’t new, but radio was, Nazis used radio a lot and referred to use of radio to show how modern and revolutionary they are.
Important because it applies to leftists often, if you say “leftists made Trump” or “leftists made MAGA” or “leftists broke American democracy” or something like that, it’ll sound clearly wrong, but it won’t be. USSR was a clear case of using what others made and thinking that it’s their own achievement by its administrators, most of its history, while first they were using the tremendous results of Stolypin reforms and then NEP (Lenin was a bit smarter than his buddies), and then selling fossil resources to support visibility of a working economy, but that’s kinda off topic.
I’m not talking about x86 architecture, I’m talking about everyone using Java and Sun idea of the web, just slowly worsened and degenerate, first of all. Or Windows NT, it was fine in year 1999, but being stuck there for 20 years is just wrong.
So, back to our day and how it’s useful, systems should have smaller latency for evolution to work well. Like those temples in Japan, which are constantly being rebuilt in all of their parts. You should be able to tear down a republic and build a new one in a couple of years.
Getting back to Nazis - if the system they captured had smaller latency, they wouldn’t have managed to even annex Austria.
The El Salvador facility was already built in 2022 during Pres. Bukele’s national crackdown on gang violence. Since it was only running at half capacity (and to ingratiate himself with Trump most likely), Bukele has offered to incarcerate deported gang members there, especially those who were refused by their home countries.
It’s a very honest article.
It’s hard to know how to respond, however. The problem is religion. And believe it or not, compassion and the existence of trans people is the key that has allowed the psychopathic class to gain power.
Many religious types see empathy as a threat to their religious beliefs, which are all innately fake. All people who are kind and empathetic and understand science want to be kind to people who are trans, and for religious people, this threatens the core of their belief system. In the beginning, the Unicorn Sky Man created Adam and Even, not Adam Eve and THEM. So if some people are intersex, and some people look male but feel female, or look female and feel male, it exposes the lies of their religious myths and suddenly makes the bullshit at the CORE of their cult very clear.
These religious people can’t admit their beliefs are based on lies, can’t admitted they were tricked into believing bullshit, and so they will cling to ANYTHING that supports their delusional moron cult instead of providing empathy to people who are different.
Suddenly, in come the psychopaths who don’t give a fuck about anyone, knowing full well they can exploit this situation for more power and money. And sadly they have taken this large core of religious delusional idiots, which makes up about 65% of the country, and they are appealing directly to them: “We will support your religious delusions by hating trans people + we have some other ideas.” And the 65% universally voted for it.
The other ideas are all psychopathic ideas to enrich and empower this psychopathic class, which the 65% don’t understand because let’s face it they are all idiots who mostly don’t understand science which is why they believe in religious bullshit, and now the psychopathic class are trying to use subterfuge and obfuscation to hide the fact that the “other ideas” are going to fuck over everyone in order to consolidate power and wealth.
So previously, most cruel movements stopped because of religion: slavery stopped because white women started feeling the hypocrisy of claiming to be Christian while being cruel to black people who seemed similar to themselves, with this similarity in part because white men had been raping black women. The Holocaust stopped because there was a disabled president who felt it was immoral to kill people who were different, backed up by a public who believed Jewish people were part of their religious foundation.
So now, it’s different: the others are people that the 65% can’t relate to with tattoos who are either ethnically different and not linked to their religious beliefs or are trans people who they simply choose to believe are mentally ill because if trans people aren’t mentally ill, it means their religion is based on lies. The psychopaths who have come into power innately understand this. I do not believe for one moment that Trump Vance and their ilk at the top really believe all this religious bullshit. They understand it and they use it.
This 65 percent is a dangerous monstrosity that is destroying the country with their stupid religious beliefs. But there’s really no winning in this situation. The 65 percent cannot become “woke” because they are idiots. Would you wake up a camel or wake up a pig? Can you enlighten a rat or a turkey? No, these people will always be idiots, they are a dangerous amorphous blob of idiocy and if you try to wake them up they will cling to their bibles, truck nuts, and beer while yelling about trans people.
What is also happening is the world is currently being environmentally destroyed. At the risk of sounding crazy, but who gives a fuck because it’s lemmy, we are also dealing with a strange presence that lives in our oceans with advanced technology and flying crafts. They have bases and can alter time, according to some, unless this is all a lie. We don’t know why they are there, we don’t know if this planet is just being farmed, or if they have always been there, waiting like cicadas to feast on all of us once become plentiful enough during some orgiastic 10000 year feast, and no one fucking discusses this bizarre situation or why they are there. The military claims they don’t know. We also do not know if those beings have somehow infiltrated leadership. Our leaders are not tested for loyalty publicly. For all we know, every single major player in the US right now could be compromised. This may not even be a psychopathic class. This may be Russian compromise at best. We simply do not know who in our leaders is loyal because any adversary of the US can see this “hack” is fairly simple: appeal to the delusional bullshit of religious people by hating trans people and you can own the country, because decent politicians aren’t idiots and know that intersex people and people with different gender identities exist. But 65% of the country is actually that fucking stupid.
And so this evil happens, with people being sent to a Latino Holocaust, and there’s really no way to fight it because they control 65% of the public through a hack. There can be no religious awakening of these morons now because any consciousness, any awareness or decency or empathy means acknowledging trans people and that means acknowledging their religion is a heaping pile of lies, which it’s always been.
The psychopathic class, or possibly a controlled class, that has gotten into power also knows the conundrum that decent leaders feel: if you are a decent leader, do you stop fighting for basic normal rights for trans people to try to get some of the 65% back, thereby ensuring some trans people will feel marginalized and literally die as a result through deaths of despair, or do you refuse to morally compromise, ensuring doom? Eventually, more accepting young people are going to start voting, so this problem will eventually go away in 20 years, but the cruelty and exploitation and viciousness is all happening right now. So what can be done right now?
I’m not sure if there’s anything that can be done. I don’t see a solution. I am not sure organization will do anything, protests will do anything, the math just isn’t on the side of decent people. Does anyone think there is a solution to this problem that doesn’t involve waiting 20 years?
Bases and altering time?
The first half of this was great. Then you descended into tomfoolery.
The “tomfoolery” is documented and there have been congressional hearings on it. My point is that we have no proof that everyone in power is not a Russian agent, or worse, and this hack would allow any adversary who sees the exploit to gain control.
There was a time when covid first spread right next to a literal covid laboratory and the media said it was from bats and scientists said they had done genetic testing prooving it came from bats. At the time, even saying that it was possibly more likely that covid came from the covid laboratory was “misinformation” and a “conspiracy” that would get people banned from social media. People like you were the ones who would either laugh or gasp when people suggested covid came from a covid biolab back then. There are numerous public reports documenting unusual crafts decending into the ocean. I am sorry you are too scared or culturally constrained to acknowledge something is happening: either people in the military are lying or it’s real. Either way, it’s not something wise to ignore and you, sir, are the fool, with a name like heliumfart the clown wig on top.
The fact that the 65 percent can be easily controlled through this hack and we can’t be sure if the ruling administration is even loyal to US interests or to something else is part of the problem.
This does seem to be a concentration camp, many people fear what will happen to LGBT people next especially transgender people, and there have already undoubtedly been deaths of depair for transgender people as a result of this.
If you have a better analysis or resolution, please, please write it, suggest options that people who are against extreme cruelty for people who are different can undertake. Because I don’t see how. Much like a parasite is able to get an ant to stand on a leaf, you can literally steal the farms and insurance from the 65 percent as long as you bash trans people affirming the illogical religious beliefs of the 65 percent. You can literally open up a concentration camp in the name of jesus and visit the pope after pretending to believe in kindness if you control the 65 percent by bashing trans people. It is an easy hack: the cognitive dissonance of the 65 percent is incredible and if you can help them not feel that tension regarding the lies at the core of their belief system, you capture that whole voting block regardless of what else you do.
The fact that there may be underwater basis with something down there, or that many military personnel are lying about this, should be a fucking concern, and if you think that’s foolery you’re not thinking clearly. We don’t know if this means another nation, we don’t know if this is a culture from a different planet or a culture that is just advanced and lives in the ocean, we don’t know if it’s some sort of interdimensional consciousness or intelligence. The government in the USA has also lied to people in the US before so we can’t be sure the information they are providing is accurate. We also simultaneously have people in power that are behaving in unusual ways that suggest a possible alignment with Russia and that may be due to mutual beliefs or it may be due to payments. We do not know.
When there is suddenly inexplicably a concentration camp that the US is sending people to, the fact that we do have to second-guess the loyalty of those in power is an important part of this. Although Republicans have often been greedy and selfish, ideological differences were also part of the equation at one point. Now, I am not sure if this is just about ideology.
With the biosphere likely to eventually collapse at the rate the world is going, Republicans either think that they will amass enough wealth that in a neo-feudal hot planet they will be able to survive or they really are so stupid they aren’t thinking at all.
All of these things still don’t solve the problem. The state the US is in is much like if you are using Qubes and suddenly you see your mouse open up a terminal in dom0 and someone type “I have access now.” The USA has been compromised by this transgender-religiousidiocy hack of 65 percent and there is now a rootkit. Someone has control and it’s not even clear who has control nor how to disinfect the system.
I’d be fascinated to hear what the fuck you think is so illogical about what I posted?
I’m oddly happy that, despite what some might call extravagant ideas, you stand by LGBTQ. Goes against the stereotype, and I can only support that. As a side note: the only “extravagant idea” (who am I to say; you can’t disprove a negative — in other words, I mean no disrespect) I’ve ever gotten interested in was Philip K. Dick. You may find his VALIS series interesting; it’s the most persuasive argument for omniscient non-human intelligence I’ve come across, and quite well written at that.
Bit rambling, slightly jumpy to conclusions. Also assuming people can be generalized into a few buckets.
They’re right that we should at minimum not allow them to define how we talk about this, and we should call it what it is.
But we should also have a plan to avoid getting put in a concentration camp when we do so. Stay safe, and be good everyone.
They’ve done it before, why would we think they wouldn’t do it again?
I’m sure Republicans would say the same and more about me, but I’d take one migrant who took a risk to work harder than almost any Americans do and give their children a better life (funny how they actually do what the American mythos claims to value, they walk the walk of our largely bullshit rhetoric), at our big corpo’s invitation no less, than a hundred of my fellow American supposed conservatives born in the developed world acting like they hit a triple and reveling in the suffering of those who weren’t born in what was once a cradle of safety until they demolished it with their ballot, seeking to destroy their enemies, aka most Americans, in the zero sum game Faux News drilled into their head.
These people are unashamedly drunk on the schaudenfreude of cruelty. To me, their willful rejection of basic human empathy means they are wholly devoid of value.
Even if you were a massive shithead racist, and only wanted white Americans working in America, it doesn’t matter. Even if you were to somehow convince white, natural born Americans to work the shitty farm, housekeeping, and industrial cleaning jobs, it doesn’t matter.
There simply aren’t enough white, natural born Americans to fulfill all of those jobs. Our economy will fucking collapse without migrant labor. Our food supply will collapse. We depend on a lot of people working really awful jobs for peanuts to have food on the table every day. There is no amount of rhetoric that will change that. And if it takes the collapse of the United States for these motherfuckers to learn that then so be it. I’ll see y’all at the pitchforks and torches rally.
This is something people around the world need to understand.
All the developed countries with plummeting birth rates should be actively competing for citizens.
Though for non-US nations they are already getting some help from our self-imposed brain drain.
South Korea would like to know your location
America already had concentration camps in the form of ICE detention camps and prisons. The trials most faced before being sent to prison do not some how make those prisons not concentration camps. Those also have inhumane living conditions, forced labor, dehumanization, brutal violence, isolation from accountability, psychological torture and murder.
El Salvador is certainly worse, but we didn’t get here overnight. The american people have been conditioned to accept this over decades by sending millions of people to internal slave labor camps with the thin excuse of “but they had due process!!!1!”
excellent point
Look at the shade of their head. These people had hair. Without hair its easy to think they are typical American gang members with shaved heads. But look at the tan-less skin. They had hair and they were shaved to prevent lice but also to remove their personality. Look at some with glasses. Gang members often hate people with glasses because those people often have more money to pay for glasses.
I suggest making some reforms to state institutions before someone else gains control of at least two thirds of the political power. Having support from two thirds of a legislative body is sufficient to completely rewrite a constitution in many cases, so the only question is whether a “supermajority” can reach some consensus.
I personally don’t have a lot of hope for peaceful reform, given what I see from https://ballotpedia.org/Results_for_ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)_and_electoral_system_ballot_measures,_2024
Home of the not so often brave and land of the less and less free.
Land of the fee,
And the home of the slave
It is not new though, it started with Guantanamo concentration camp for Taliban fighters.
It is not new though, it started with Guantanamo concentration camp for Taliban fighters.
It is not new though, it started with 10 concentrations camps during World War 2 for Japanese Americans.
It is not new though, it started with Guantanamo concentration camp for Taliban fighters.
It is not new though, it started with 10 concentrations camps during World War 2 for Japanese Americans.
It is not new though, it started with concentration camps for the extermination and removal of the Native Americans
Hey! You skipped the civil war concentration camps on both sides, how dare you.
I’ve always thought it was hypocritical of Americans to be calling Nazis the worst. We literally enslaved a group of people for hundreds of years, bred and slaughtered them at our whim. Had concentration camps, and more. We’re not better, and probably worse. We just had good propaganda.
Eh, I wouldn’t say Americans reached the level of industrialized genocide Nazi Germany achieved but we definitely had and still have plenty of blood on our hands.
I’m not sure I’d agree, though maybe you’re correct because it wasn’t industrial. We put bounties on bison skulls though to encourage them being slaughtered because we new native populations relied on them, for example. It was brutal and systematic. Sure, we didn’t use industrial means to actually kill them, but I don’t think that makes it better or worse, only different.
TIL
In Die Hard, when Hans is describing Takagi, he says “interned at Manzanar 1942-43”. 9 year old imsufferableninja thought he was talking about an internship at a prestigious company called Manzanar. 25 year old imsufferableninja finally figured it out. They did not teach about the US’s concentration camps at my schools, for some reason…
Master Miyagi from Karate Kid also had it rough.
And George Takei
Massive shoutout to my teacher who taught us this junior or senior year. Was absolutely shocked.
Guantanamo Bay is/was its own fresh hell, but it was not a concentration camp.
Why is it not?
It was an off the record black torture/interrogation site. They didn’t send every taliban they accounted there. It was selective.
Ah, sorry, I didn’t realize that the Nazis sent all their prisoners to one camp. I guess those weren’t concentration camps, either.
I’m sure the Nazis had torture/interrogation sites too.
Nobody said that not being a concentration camp made Guantanamo ok.
No, someone just said it’s not a concentration camp because everyone of one demographic wasn’t there.
Actually, on further thought, I’ll give you that. But, unsurprisingly, limited rights abuses tend to lead to more extensive rights abuses, and the only really surprising thing is that it took more than 20 years to go from torture camps to concentration camps. Waiting for those ghettos, Poland style.
You misinterpreted my response. The point is the intention (giving 1 example at the time of operation). That intention was interrogation not concentrating undesirables.
Because it was used for a select few (relatively speaking). It wasn’t a camp built to concentrate a sizeable portion of our population into one small area.
I’ve already said that there are good arguments for why this shouldn’t be considered a concentration camp, and this isn’t one of them. This is like saying genocide isn’t genocide because the unique tribe you wiped out was only a couple hundred people. So, if you took that same tribe of people and put them in a camp and resteicted their movement, would you not consider it a concentration camp because of it’s size?
Gitmo was never meant to store large amounts of people (and not civilians). It was a place that was conveniently located that allow them to detain and torture individuals. That’s not a concentration camp dude.
Even when they started trying to send some migrants there, there were articles saying that they didn’t have the facilities for it because it was never meant for that.
By the way, only some concentrations camps in Nazi Germany were exterminations camps. So even without any mass murder this can easily be regarded as equivalent in function to a concentration camp.
We invented concentration camps in the US to deal with Chinese and Native American “undesirables,” back in the mid 1800s. This is just the third time, at least, we have started using them. We only pretend to be better than the Nazis because we didn’t have the idea to use them as mass murder camps, just slow death camps.
You forget 120,000 people of Japanese descent during WW2. And the Biden ICE camps.
And how about Guantanamo for some added gruesome torture?
The one that Obama definitely and immediately was going to close when elected.
And it would’ve been no problem since the US used Polish black sites and other vasal places to do it.I started the timeframe in the mid 1800s. The WWII camps were the second or third time we used them. One could argue that the modern day Industrial Prison Complex is also another variation that we are using of the same theme.
Specifically, extermination camps are industrialized human suffering. Something like an assembly line that builds cars, except the output is death.
All that said, splitting hairs about the definition of this stuff is not a good place to be.
That first paragraph is perfect: By all criteria, this a concentration camp. Not “concentration camp” as rhetorical inflation, or emotionally manipulative shorthand, or edgy metaphor—but as in: literally. It’s so fucking frustrating how the media has done so much work normalizing Trump that you can’t just call things what they obviously are. Trump is doing all of this stuff loudly and proudly in all our faces but if you call CECOT a concentration camp, or you point out that he dropped a fucking shitcoin before the day of his inauguration to take bribes out in the open, you just have TDS. It must be so easy and comforting to just be a nice little Trumple cultist and slurp up everything he says and dismiss all evidence of your eyes and ears.
