So three men just kidnapped a dude.
They need to be banned from doing this in plain clothes. At minumim. At best ICE needs to be abolished.
At best ICE and DHS officials should be tried in a Nuremberg style court.
They need to be arrested as attempted kidnappers or shot if they don’t surrender. Then they need to be prosecuted as kidnappers.
Just figure out their names and living places. Once the shit is over, hunt them. All of them. And do whatever you like with them.
Let’s assume for a moment that the abducters here were federal agents.
How long before people get the bright idea that they can pull a stunt like this without being federal agents? Has that already happened?
I suppose the scenario I was really thinking of is one where someone is literally abducted by adults, and not just fucking idiot kids playing fuck around.
Which has happened in the article posted here, we’re just taking them on their word that they’re actually federal agents.
Yeah, this was the part that really got me:
“Show us a warrant,” the video shows one of the two women demanding as they attempt to get between the detainers and the detainee.
“Do not touch me or impede me in my lawful duties,” the man in the pink shirt responds. “We are officers from Homeland Security.”
That’s a real bully-logic move right there. How are we supposed to know that these are your lawful duties if you’re refusing to show us your warrant or even your badge? Like, if she had blocked them at this point and the issue were brought to court (and yes, it’s ironic that this is happening in a court), then I can’t imagine a jury saying “well yeah, you can’t prevent a guy from abducting someone just because he won’t give you any indication other than a pinky swear that he has the legal authority to do it.” But, of course, the obvious implication in the moment was that since he was from the “abduct people in an unmarked van with unlimited authority” branch of the government, this wasn’t going to a jury trial, and she was either getting out of the way or she was going in the van too.
I dunno, man. It’s scary.
So what I’m gathering here, is if you can get some friends together, you can get yourself out of court in a pinch.
This is not behavior they want to encourage long term
Yeah, I started to write about that, but it’s unclear that this guy would have actually gained anything by getting out of the courtroom. A lot of folks are released pending trial, in which case there’s really no advantage to getting your friends to grab you out of court, rather than just, y’know, skipping town. If he was already in police custody, I imagine there actually would have been more checking of the authority.
But yeah, making court a place where your enemies know you’ll be there and they’re free to come and grab you is a terrible precedent anyway. If you can’t expect due process even in the courts, what does the rule of law even mean anymore?
Trump isn’t thinking in the long term. He’s usually not even thinking in the short term.
He barely developed object permanence, through many flash cards with pictures of burgers on them.
“if we stop testing there won’t be so many positive tests.”
(Warning: Instagram link) Here’s a video of an instance of this
Florida Woman Posed as ICE Agent to Detain Ex-Boyfriend’s Wife: Police https://www.newsweek.com/florida-woman-latrance-battle-ice-agent-detain-ex-boyfriend-wife-2062962
That’s a scary read - if the assailant had cleaned up better and not stopped at an apartment complex, she could have gotten away with murder.
Florida woman
Yeah, that tracks.
Pretty sure some people showed up at San Francisco City Hall claiming to be with DOGE and demanding they be given access to personal files.
It was just some insane MAGA duds pretending to be with DOGE.
Especially with ICE going into schools and other previous safe zones now, think about how easy it would be for people to take advantage of these situations.
If a person is already willing to kidnap someone, do you really think they wouldn’t easily be willing to disguise their own identity, command authority and prey on people’s fears of retaliation for not complying?
What alarmed Nicholas Reppucci, head of the Charlottesville Office of the Public Defender, is that the enforcers called in to detain the two men in the city Tuesday morning were wearing plain clothes and did not display badges or arrest warrants.
Presumably, the courthouse is filled with cops and others with arrest authority, so why did they allow two men in plainclothes without badges or warrants leave with two people?
If the DOGE pirates had been gunned down in the first lobby the invaded, it would have ended there, or at least gone down a different path.
We should not be normalizing this behavior, and setting precedents. Without a badge, you will not be listened to, and you will leave the building immediately. Without a warrant, you will not be putting your hands on any person. If you attempt to bypass either requirement, you will be arrested. And if you attempt to do enforce your demands by force, you will be shot.
I wish they did have the guts to shoot the DOGE team. Especially since the DOGE goons have literally dragged people out and probably physically assaulted others.
On the plus side, if anybody reading this ever has reason to think that they might need to go into a police station and remove someone being held there, apparently if you and a friend or two look sufficiently the part, you can just walk in, in plainclothes, and claim to be Homeland Security, and just… take a dude and leave.
Whatever happened to the Fourth Amendment? If they’re not even bothering to uphold the Constitution in a courthouse you guys are well and truly fucked.
I’m pretty sure Homeland Security was created with the sole intent of subverting the constitution from it’s inception.
https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
The magical 100 mile “Nah constitution don’t really work here” zone that also, crazily enough, includes 2/3 of the population.
The constitution has not existed since 911. I am not sure why people still believe in it. Even Santa Claus is more plausible to exist.
well that’s a load of shit
Yeah, I don’t think it’s very likely that a mythical jolly man brings presents to kids worldwide
Brilliant rebuttal
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You were okay with the program deporting people without trial because they “are criminals”? Are you even listening to yourself?
No I assumed that they would take the legal route of getting rid of illegal immigrants that are criminals I didn’t expect it to be like this. But I still am on board with them getting rid of illegal immigrants that are criminals, They just need to go about it a better way
That thing you wanted was already happening under Biden, and before him. How do I know? They didn’t hire new people. They just gave the signal to the existing hires that they can do what they want. They were able to deport criminals before, and they did. Trump just lied when he said they didn’t. During the campaign he duped millions of people into believing a fake problem to which he is now providing a fake solution: no additional criminals are being deported, not really — they’re just doing things more sloppily, being more cruel about it, and padding the numbers with innocent people.
Ok, sending people to an El Salvador concentration camp instead of their home country, that’s certainly new.
They’ve been on Lemmy for 20 days. This Reddit slop is already becoming exhausting
I made an account at the start of the year before changing to make one not associated with my at all. The redditification of Lemmy had become so much worse even just since I got here.
In B-school this is called “adverse selection.”
At this point I’m hoping they’ll at some point make the mistake of sending some Chinese citizens to El Salvador. Hopefully someone with CCP ties. Now I’m not saying I wish this upon anyone, I’m saying they’re sending people anyway, I just hope they’ll eventually make the mistake of doing it to someone whose government can actually fight back. China could absolutely destroy the US if they wanted to at this point.
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That’s what I mean about the duping. None of that was happening under Biden. These “open borders” allegations are and have always been nonsense.
Do people try to cross illegally? Yes. How do we know? Because they’re caught while trying to do it and sent back — this one fact should put the “open borders” claims to rest, but that’s if we lived in a sane world. And don’t get me started on all the citizen militias patrolling the border and shooting people for sport, because a lot of the border is in red states where leadership turns a blind eye to these types of vigilantes.
Most undocumented immigrants in the US arrive normally on a visa by plane and then overstay their visa. And while some do that on purpose, a lot of the time the expiration happens accidentally due to things out of their control, like because paperwork takes too long and it’s tied to their employer who isn’t moving their ass fast enough, etc. Some are in the process of correcting their undocumented status or even taking their citizenship test when ICE detains them.
The argument here is something you alluded to in the first comment I replied to: an undocumented immigrant merely existing in the US poses no risk to anyone, so maybe deportation isn’t really a measured response to coming across a person with undocumented status, let alone calling them “illegals” and doing all this verbal shell game between “illegal”, “criminal”, “terrorist”, deliberately confusing “insane asylum” with “asylum seekers” etc.
All that rhetoric is meant do dehumanize and paint large groups of people with the same brush: dangerous, disgusting, inhuman. Then the “open borders” lie implies incompetence and naivete on the part of the previous administration (or even sadism if they did it knowingly). This is how we ended up here, and now they’re doing what they wanted to do in the first place: treat them all the same and continue using the verbal shell game when asked about it, saying stuff like “criminals have no right to due process ^(but we decided without due process who the criminals are)”.
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Back in my day the trolls put some effort into it.
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So… you’re suggesting obviously homosexual activities while calling someone derogatory slurs?
The lady doth protest too much, methinks
It’s probably the gesta- I mean ICE
gICEstapo?
Is this exactly the kind of stuff 2A was supposed to have solved? What were the half a billion guns for?
Guns are for the tyranny of green energy and gay marriage. This is what they voted for.
Guns are for Drag Queen Story Hour and school schoolings
Important Note: For perpetuating school shootings, not stopping them. Absolutely not for stopping them. Unless we’re talking about the shooter taking themselves out when they’re done.
A good portion of the 2A fetishists in this country love jackbooted authoritarianism as long as it’s aimed at the correct demographic.
They love the fantasy of being a plucky revolutionary, but in reality they are the ones helping the boot come down.
but we can change that any time. change the demographic by arming yourself and not being one of those people.
Way ahead of you there.
its called ammosexuals,people who fetishized and fantasize about a scenario where they shoot people, any excuse will do. i seen a video of a poc right winger, “climaxing” over the thought of shooting someone in an unlikely scenario. it was the cringiest thing.
These gestapo need to be doxxed
You misspelled shot.
They don’t need to be mutually exclusive
I think this is one of those pearl clutching instances that won’t take kindly to that kind of language. You need to use the legal system to oppose the corrupt legal system, I guess.
Then I guess these gestapo need to be legally shot, after a legal trial and sentencing to death.
(Stupid fucking mods.)
Having watched the video, that guy provided no evidence that this was anything other than a kidnapping. Shooting him in the face would be 100% self defense
Maybe, but writing mean articles about them isn’t going to stop them, and they have the support of the trump administration. The only thing that’s going to stop them is if they’re afraid they might not go home afterwards.
Obviously the next step for them will be gearing up like they’re going into combat, but that really starts making people pay attention to what’s going on
Oh, I fully support shooting nazis and their collaborators dead. I was taking a shot (pun intended) at the moderators who remove comments like “the guys running today’s concentration camps should be shot”
Gotta know where they are before that
What alarmed Nicholas Reppucci, head of the Charlottesville Office of the Public Defender, is that the enforcers called in to detain the two men in the city Tuesday morning were wearing plain clothes and did not display badges or arrest warrants.
Sounds an awful lot like kidnapping. So then the question becomes: why didn’t the court officers or local police arrest the so-called “ICE agents”? Up to and including firing on the assailants, if necessary? Because if you don’t show your badge, and you can’t back it up, you are not who you say you are. And that becomes broad-ass daylight kidnapping. And the actual uniformed officers did nothing (I know why they did nothing - the call is coming from inside the house).
did people not remember trump had the same nameless goons in his first admin when kindapping people.
Sure, but this is frankly another level. Snatching protesters off the street is fucked, for sure. Snatching people out of a courthouse, while they’re engaged with the legal system, out from under the noses of judges, attorneys, and court officers is absolutely another fucking level.
Well maybe we can use this and go get Lugi. Just claim to be ICE and maybe the courts let us get him, thinking we going deport him to El Salvador.
Hey, if it’s stupid but it works, it’s not that stupid.
Because the people who work at the court were likely complicit.
Of course they wouldn’t tell the Public Defender, but that doesn’t mean that he bailiff or whatever, wasn’t in on it.
Sounds like a courthouse that is absolutely corrupt of the constitution and should be all held to treason. The U.S. brought back the firing squad, and the president preaches for no trials. If anyone knows me I love this country. That said, I’m fairly sure this country says we are required to shoot the judge by firing squad without a trial? Or maybe they havent been clear. Is it just racism based slaughter, or slaughter all around they support?
You mean that some of those that burn crosses are the same that work forces? 🤯
Wow you really can’t tell the difference between officials and gangs of criminals these days.
They’re the same picture.
The police have always just been the biggest gang
Indeed, kidnapping is one of the things that drug cartels are known for. Now we have people claiming to be federal officers doing kidnapping? There needs to be a LOT of pushback over this, it’s crazy and ridiculous.
Federal agents have been in league with cartels before.
https://jacobin.com/2023/03/us-mexico-war-on-drugs-garcia-luna-calderon
By design. It reminds me of another article posted on Lemmy recently, that “tough on crime” jurisdictions are making it less safe to live in those jurisdictions.
“Is it worth the trouble to go to court?” Reppucci asked. “I think it’s going to make it much harder, inherently harder, and more likely that people will disregard lawfully issued subpoenas, both by the prosecution and by defense attorneys and by civil attorneys and, even perhaps, dare we say, in divorce cases or custody case hearings that people are going to evaluate whether or not it makes sense to follow lawful state orders.”
Definitely not the sort of thing a fascist would do. Lefty liberals are Larping
Ludicrous.
Maybe shoot kidnappers? Amazing how often your guns are used to kill school children and how rarely to fight injustice.
Maybe shoot kidnappers?
Normal people cannot legally carry firearms into a Court House.
Is there no law enforcements with weapons in your courts? And also what about the kidnappers on the streets? Have any gotten shot so far?
Iknow people simply do not want to risk their life and thats fair but i wonder about the use scenario for all these weapons you guys own and i do not understand why besides having a fetish for weapons.
The Venn diagram of gun fetishists and the people still cheering for Trump is nearly a circle.
The problem is that most of the weapon fetishists are on the side of the fascists.
The fetishists yes, but to anyone thinking otherwise mostly all the leftists I know are strapped. It’s just an issue of organization.
…i wonder about the use scenario for all these weapons you guys own and i do not understand why besides having a fetish for weapons.
The vast majority of guns are owned by people who lean far, far right. The use scenario for most of them is a fantastical case where strangers with dark complexions threaten their homes and families and they suddenly turn into Rambo or the Punisher and then shoot all the bad guys.
Of course this never happens because these very people are honestly cowards who are too scared to go to the grocery store with their weapon. If something really dangerous happens you’d better not be between them and the nearest exit because they will shoot you if you block them while they’re running away. Well, unless you’re armed. In that case, they’ll run from you too.
Were you rubbing your nipples when you wrote this? You sound like a MAGAt fantasizing about trans Mexicans.
That’s probably because I’m essentially talking about MAGAts fantasizing about getting to use their 2nd Amendment rights.
To add on to what @[email protected] and @[email protected] said, the primary use-case for personal firearms in the US outside of hobby/hunting in day-to-day is self-defense, and as a last resort.
Even with a concealed carry permit, most states’ concealed carry laws state that you can only use your weapon if you have no method of retreat, and retreat should always be the first option. (Rightly so.)
Second problem that this seething pile of shit administration has created, is even if you were cornered, no way out, and used a gun to defend yourself, as soon as they say (real, fake, made up, or retroactively) “oh that was a Federal agent” you’re now looking at having to deal with the Federal “justice” system, which is currently a big lying pile of shit that does whatever it wants with no regard for any life. (State and local laws are, for the most part, still functioning correctly.)
So basically, a death-and/or-El-Salvador concentration camp sentence for the person-that-would-be-helping.
Signing up as a rogue citizen to defend others, as a firearm owner, is at minimum legal fees, possible loss of firearms, possible jail time, or these days, possible disappearing.
You basically have to be in a mental state of writing off your own life to do such an act. If we are at that point, we’re probably in civil war.
There’s not cowboy justice in modern America, most of the time, surprisingly. Only Federal cowboy injustice.
Closest that could be maybe done is if a group of armed citizens in a state where open-carry is legal set up groups to protect those being targeted by the Nazis just outside the legal land boundary of the courts. Specifically because officers (read: thugs) are trained to shoot first and ask questions later. You’d need a mass of armed citizens, not touching their firearms, so the thugs know they’re outnumbered and no matter how tiny-penis-brain they are, they know they’ll probably come out dead if they escalate. Still very risky, could easily escalate as the thugs are also trained to purposely aggravate citizens so the citizens will make a mistake and the thugs can “apply the law” (do whatever they want with no consequences) as they see fit. This would be the tipping point Mango Mussolini wants to declare Martial Law across the US, and then we’re back to the civil war thing. All the rules change at that point, and the perceived “authority” that the ICE cowards think they have disappears, but we’re also looking at massive loss of life, no matter how it plays out. Unlike the Nazis, most Americans value life.
It sucks, right? When a majority of a country follows its laws, but they’re dealing with human trash in power that can mutate it at-will with almost god-mode powers, it becomes infinitely more complex to save the People and Democracy. They’ve done a good job stacking the deck in favor of Tyranny.
So basically, a death-and/or-El-Salvador concentration camp sentence for the person-that-would-be-helping
Point of correction here. A sentence to the El Salvador Concentration Camps IS a death sentence. The fact that there’s currently no tangible proof that prisoner executions are happening is about the same as see a giant plume of thick black smoke rising off the city tire dump and saying that there’s currently no tangible evidence that the fucker’s burning.
Almost 100% guaranteed that if anyone eventually manages to investigate it properly there will be a whole bunch of mass graves.The or was more from hope at this point, honestly. Although we really need a first-world free nation to stop that El Salvador shit. Unfortunately, that will probably be the trigger for WWIII the morons in the US federal government are hoping for.
Totally understand.
Yeah, it would take almost literally the whole rest of the world to stand up to the US. The military superiority difference between the US and everyone else is… problematic. The US was always a bit of a bully as an ally, and part of the disparity is the fault of the rest of us, allowing the US to take the bulk of defence burden, and mil-tech development. It’s turned allies into perceived client States in the view of people like Trump.
So yeah, if the only way to get Trump pulled up on this fascist shit is to have a global united front, and threaten WW3? We had better hope that there’s enough people in the US military chain of command who recognise, and honour, that the oath they swore is to the constitution, and to protect it from threats foreign and domestic…and not an oath to Trump with the promise of Jackbooting the necks of the rest of the world. Otherwise, as the quote that’s often attributed to Einstein goes:
I don’t know what weapons might be used in World War III. But there isn’t any doubt what weapons will be used in World War IV…
Stone spears…
I like to shoot far off cans, bottles, and targets out in the country. I’ve never shot an animal (that I know of) or a person (pretty confident about that one) and if there was some rabble-rousing going on and I was for some reason armed and loaded I don’t have the mental capacity nor the confidence to decide who lives and dies. Just because I own guns doesn’t mean I’m your defender. You should go buy a gun and become the justice decider you describe. Become the change you want to see.
What is happening is abhorrent. Morons with guns aren’t the answer.
Not possible in my country. I just sometimes have the feeling that americans accept more shit from their government and law enforcement BECAUSE they have loads of weapons and it gives this wrong sense of security, that you are able to rise up against authority if push comes to shove. Only that it will never be quite bad enough to risk your own life. And i understand that. Still sad to see.
Is there no law enforcements with weapons in your courts?
American cops don’t protect American people. First and foremost, they protect their own. Beyond that, they protect the establishment that gives them their authority.
And money. They absolutely protect people with money.
Even if they could, anyone thinking they’re going to be able to shoot their way out of being abducted by the gestapo will have a very rude awakening.
Still better to be killed in the street than renditioned to America’s concentration camp in El Salvador
If that’s your goal, yes, a gun would be effective.
Is your goal something other than doing better than being renditioned to America’s concentration camp in El Salvador?
When people say “second amendment!” about this stuff they’re usually talking about overthrowing tyranny somehow, not suicide by ICE.
¿Por Qué No Los Dos?
A comment almost exactly like this got me permabanned from reddit. It’s like they’re telling us who’s side they’re on.
Years ago I was site-wide banned for “multiple false reporting” or something for reporting comments that advocated blanket murdering protesters and black people related to BLM protests. These comments are probably still there while antifascist users and subs are banned regularly.
I mean… they’ve been pretty clear about it for several years now?
You cannot hypothesize about shooting a person attacking your child but you can have several subs dedicated to cheering for the death of conscripted Russian soldiers. The cool part is that it was a 3 day ban and when I appealed it, the ban became permanent.
That’s completely, unsurprisingly, typical.
I’m on my usual 2 day ban over some comment I can’t remember, but probably something about how the current admin is a cancerous growth, and should be treated accordingly.
So you’ve been banned more than once and you continue going back?
https://www.helpguide.org/relationships/domestic-abuse/getting-out-of-an-abusive-relationship
Shit posting is fun.
Babe wake up, new gender just dropped
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It’s horrifying to see so many incidents of kidnapping in courtrooms. I can’t imagine a more blatant and clear example of subversion of the legal judicial process.
There would be no reason to remove them from a courtroom if you believed the court would come to the same conclusions they have. So the logical explanation is that they know that what they’re doing is illegal and that these people they’re snatching haven’t actually done anything wrong. It’s shameful that we’ve allowed this to happen in our country and frankly, it’s embarrassing that this is what the once great USA has stooped to.
The authorities are assholes. They go for schools and churches and hospitals and courtrooms. They won’t bother with rape cases unless they’re an easy slam dunk. They hold grudges and weaponize their power over people they don’t like. They won’t target gang members when uneducated immigrants are so much easier.
