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Whats even funnier is that in the original (Jewish interoperation) god does this as a joke. Yes god literally makes a bet with angels over if he’ll acturally go through with it. Then said angels go down to earth to attempt to sway him because they wanted to win the bet.
How exactly is the Jewish interpretation different from the Christian one? I thought the Christian Old Testament was identical to the Torah. I ask as someone who was raised Methodist.
The Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament. Depending on what branch of Christianity you go by, the Old Testament contains 39-49 books. But that’s only a small nit.
I’ve never heard of that particular interpretation of the Abraham story, being raised Catholic. I also can’t find any sources that say that the Jews believe that the Abrahamic Covenant started as a joke between God and the angels, but then again my quick search might not have had the right keywords.
The difference is that the Jewish interpenetration developed both before and after Christianity started, so its not really possible for them to be the same.
I wouldn’t trust anyone who misspelled interpretation twice.
interpenetration
My keyboard app doesn’t have working spellcheck. Sorry that every other Android keyboard is spyware.
Religion is a helluva drug.
I was never raised religiously. My first exposure to the Bible was the lego comic the brick testament. It was batshit insane as a kid and it’s batshit insane now
Which is why we need and adult rated HBO type series of the old testament. I really want the episode on Samsung.
And then God was all like “It was just a joke dog. Why you gettin’ all triggered?”
Just Joshua-ing ya, bro.
And they’ll keep on circumcising their sons while unironically screaming about anyone who respects trans rights being out to surgically mutilate all children. What a world.
That seems somewhat antisemitic, if you ask me. Not all jews are anti-trans.
Sorry, m8. Here, I’ll fix it.
trans rightspalestinian rights
There, should be kosher now.
It is not. There are enough Jews that don’t support the actions of Israel for your comment to be definetly antisemitic.
Just not enough to stop the genocide. Work on those numbers.
From what I understand it’s also still the standard in the US. Originally popularised because it would keep boys from fondling themselves which, of course, would make Sky Daddy angry.
But if that’s not the case, I’d happily stand corrected by someone more knowledgeable on this topic.
I would say that Christians are not required to circumcise themselves, since jewish law only applied to Jews before Christ, and it actually made sense to do so back then, for hygienic reasons.
I was unaware Americans do this, but first I would say that that practice is clearly not connected to Abraham, that is portrayed here, in any way, even if what you say is correct. And it is a cultural practice, not a relgious one, and even if it was, as you say, motivated by religious views.
But I… am not sure how circumcision would prevent anyone from touching himself, so I am highly sceptical of that claim.
Finally, I will say that it would be unfair to transpose the beliefs of an obscure american sect of Christianity on the entire Christendom. Especially since there is literally no religious requirement for Christians to do so.
But I… am not sure how circumcision would prevent anyone from touching himself, so I am highly sceptical of that claim.
The idea was, if I’m not mistaken, that without foreskin sensitivity & pleasure decreases. So that way there is less ‘risk’ of boys engaging in sexual activities, other than for reproductive purposes.
Wow. If I was prompted to come up with the stupidest notion right now, I would hardly make up something dumber.
The Jews at least had a normal reason to do this(hygiene), this is ridiculous. Do you still do this?
Cirucmcision was commonly promoted as a means to keep boys chaste in the US and was a popular “treatment” promoted by Kellogg at the time (yeah the cereal guy).
Christians may not be required to do it but we’ve got a few tens of millions at least who do do it out of social cohesion reasons and that’s enough of a “reason” for them.
Here’s a quote by Kellogg on how a circumcision should be ideally performed by the way.
the operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anaesthetic [to] have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases.
Dude was whack job, American af and not Jewish. Kellogg encouraged parents to tie their children’s hands to their bedposts or to circumcise their teenage boys. An even more aggressive tactic saw the foreskin of a young man’s penis sewed shut to prevent erections. For young girls, he recommended pouring carbolic acid on their clitorises.
So no, saying some shit about circumcision being genital mutilation ain’t antisemitic in America. Most people who do it aren’t Jewish, it has a long history of non-Jews doing it and most of the people circumcised in America were done so by non-Jews.
In fact approximately 58.3% of all newborns in the US get circumcised despite any religious affiliation were still happening as of 2010. Recent days could change but not drastically enough to change the point.
(https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/circumcision_2013/circumcision_2013.htm)
So shut up about it already.
But they are not doing it because they are Christians. The vast majority of Christians don’t do it, and atheist americans do it too. This is just a quirk of america, that is religiously coloured because that is what america is like.
And the comment I responded to was talking about people who circumcise for religious reasons.
So it is you, who is wrong.
I’m rubber you’re glue.
lmao mfw I remember why I stay away from atheist spaces. Just the most sweaty debate bros ever.
Seriously! I just read this and I was like, fuck, I remember being 16 too
Wait… you mean we’d fondle ourselves even more if we were uncut??? When do you guys ever sleep???
It"s a hard life 😔
… but that woodwork needs to be done. 😞
Not all circumcised are Jews. Most aren’t in fact.
In the US circumcision was the norm for the longest time. Thank John Harvey Kellogg for that. I don’t think it’s recommended anymore.
It’s probably still a lot more uncommon than being uncircumcised because “well I guess it should look like mine or most of the others”
Aesthetic and looking like the father is a big reason women still support doing so.
How would women feel if men said the same thing about cutting theirs up for aesthetic reasons?
But the only religion that holds to this story of Abraham, and circumsises is Judaism.
Muslims reject the Torah, or the Old Testament, and Christians are under no obligation to circumcise so this only applies to Jews.
And Americans do it
because they are weirdfor cultural reasons.Christians are under no obligation to circumcise so this only applies to Jews.
But they still believe it.
Believe what?
The story of Abraham
Dude. Wipe your computer screen clean, open your eyes, and notice the text in the meme about 4 billion people who think nothing is wrong with this: Christians are invoked directly in the post.
They didn’t say anything about jews being anti-trans.
Didn’t even say anything about Jews. Most people I’ve meant who are pro circumcision and follow an Abrahamic god are not Jewish.
But Americans that circumcise(which I did not know happened), don’t do it for religious reasons. And Muslims don’t believe in the story depicted, so this by elimination only applies to Jews.
Ah yes! The famous three branches of abrahamic faith: Judaism, Islam, and America.
Jewish scholars often recognize 8 genders.
There are Jewish TERFs, but they tend to also be alt right Zionists.
As a Jewish person the vast majority of religious Jews are extremely transphobic and also incredibly homophobic. So no its acturally not inaccurate at all, most Rabbis will genuenly complain about Trans people mutalating and indoctrinating people while doing that themselves.
I’m pretty sure it started with some chick named Mary cheating on her spouse, and then “Uh, no, it’s uh, it’s… MAGIC! Yeah, I got pregnant from magic! But the magic was a person you see, named uhm, looks over at pet dog, named do- uh no, g-o-d, his name was God! God gave us a magic baby! Yay!”
That’s the new testament. Pretty modern and woke stuff compared to the old testament which is the common root of Abrahamic religions.
And that tells a lot about the state of the whole thing, really.
The power of women. She and few schizophrenics changed the whole society.
don’t forget the part where she got her fiance/husband totally snookered and/or dosed with magic mushrooms or something; and then appeared to him pretending to be an angel telling him to shut the fuck up and go with it.
(or maybe she got a friend to be the angel?)
Edit: also, can we talk about how if the story is real… there was no chance that Mary could give meaningful consent?
For religion rape is a feature not a bug
Well, the whole virgin Mary is later stuff. Joseph was the father probably. If there was any Jesus at all - the “objective” historical mentions we get are not really very first-hand, so it’s all kind of clouded.
So, like, To go with more modern names, it’d be like some guy named Michael having a kid they named Braiden. In that particular time and place Yoseph was a super common name; as was Yeshua.
Which suggests there were many, many people named “Yeshua Bar Yoseph” which is part of the reason we have “Yeshua of Nazareth”
In fact, there was probably more than one Yeshua bar Yoseph from Nazareth, even if it was a small town. just like how there’s Braiden, Brayden, Braeden, Braidyn. It’s probably a good thing I’d never have kids because I’d name them all Zathras
Mary was a teenage girl that was being married off to an older man who was already widowed with children (at least, I think that’s the Catholic claim. “Perpetual virginity” and all that means that Jesus shouldn’t have siblings…)
I think rationally she was a teenage girl that was raped by a Roman soldier, and considering that not being a virgin on your wedding night was the kind of thing that, at least on the books, could get you killed…
If Mary lied, that was a really smart move.
Not to mention that those same 4 billion people are convinced that it is an act of love. Their god would be abusive as fuck if it existed.
The act of Love was that after demonstrating his commitment, God allowed him to dip out at the last second and sacrifice a goat instead.
A lovely test of one’s faith is whether they’ll stab and burn their child on command.
By the way, if someone is constantly testing you, that’s abusive. Run. Away.
Gabriel: what else could a test to see whether someone would stab and burn a child possible be!?
God: a test of obedience and faith!
Gabriel: a test to see if someone has faith in voices in his head that tell him to murder children IS A PSYCHOPATH TEST!!
God: well I’m sure there is something more psychotic than obeying murderous voices in your head
Gabriel: well, I can’t think of much
omg 💀
According to them:
Mutilating your genitals for sky daddy in your head- good and normal
Surgery to be your true self - Deranged
I hate this hell world.
Job: “Thanks for giving me back everything you took from me in that bet with Satan, but can you please bring my dead family back to life?”
God: “We haven’t established that lore yet.”
God: I replaced them, what’s your problem?
I constantly reference Job for exactly that logic. Early Christianity saw family as property first.
Even as a child i used to hear this story and go “that’s fucked up. Why would god ask him to do that? What a psycho. And why would Abraham agree to do it?! If god is asking you to murder your own kid, maybe that god is shit”
As a fun fact, some interpretations say that by binding Isaac and being ready to proceed, Abraham failed the test, either in the eyes of God or at the very least in the eyes of the author. The second verse has God saying (JPS Contemporary Torah)
Take your son, your favored one, Isaac, whom you love […] [emphasis mine]
And after stopping him, the angel (which is identified with God) says
I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your favored one, from Me.
The description of Abraham’s love for Isaac is missing, despite identical phrasing (also in Hebrew) otherwise. It’s as if God (or the author) is taunting Abraham.
This also raises a concern about God’s omniscience; he says “now I know that you fear God”, as if he wasn’t previously sure. There are many ways to resolve this, but the Bible is just very inconsistent everywhere.
Why would a loving god torture people for eternity? I guess we’ll never know.
Why? Have you not played The Sims?
Yeah but I don’t claim to love my sims.
Fun fact: Abraham goes up the mountain with his son but comes down alone, suggesting that in the original text he went through with the child sacrifice.
The Bible has tons of edits like this, it’s fun to spot them—and even more so to guess the intent behind them. Often when a seemingly irrelevant detail (or an entire chapter) is inserted in the middle of a story, that’s an edit (although there are also genuine errors). In general, the Bible is not as well put-together as people tend to think. In this case, whoever wrote this wanted to make clear that Judaism does not condone human sacrifice, in contrast to other contemporary religions.
Others (chiefly those who consider the text to be holy) interpret the pronoun change as indicative of an emotional separation between Abraham and his son, as if following these events they don’t want to walk together any more.
whoever wrote this wanted to make clear that Judaism does not condone human sacrifice, in contrast to other contemporary religions.
I suspect that the addition of the lamb(goat?) Was a latter addition to distance Judaism from child sacrifice but that Judaism did evolve out of a religious tradition that practiced child sacrifice (and idolatry). But I’m also aware of how antisemites would love to slander modern Judaism with accusations in a similar vein, so it’s a kinda difficult line to walk.
when one person believes a delusion, it’s schizophrenia. when millions do, it’s religion
True, when enough people do something it gets normalised, no matter how crazy.
They had it with opium, and we have this thing with the hard drug alcohol.
As they say, if you talk to God, that’s praying, but if God talks to you, that’s schizophrenia.
If you talk to god, you are an idiot and if he talks to you, you are a schizophrenic idiot.
If someone finds comfort in talking to God, then they’re comfortable. If it produces a desirable result, then it’s desirable.
Calling others morons for disagreeing with their way of life, however, solves nothing. I was a Reddit atheist at one point, and I’m glad I’m no longer one.
And if it produces nothing but example after example after example of negative results? What is it then?
Thinking that it’s a one-size-fits-all solution. In some people, it helps. In others, it hurts. If people found their own faith, instead of having it handed to them at birth, the world would look a whole lot different now.
Perhaps, it would even be a good one.
“Old man listens to cloud” is an even scarier headline.
Not sacrificing his son is actually a late edit, this is known because through though they changed the text to an angel stopping him, it still preserved the original language that describes ‘‘THEY went up the mountain’’ and ‘‘HE came down the mountain’’
There’s evidence that ancient Israelites, like most other cultures in that area, practiced human sacrifice.
Elsewhere in the Bible, Jepthah sacrifices his daughter in Judges 11. No angels intervene.
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