The Hippocratic oath is far too frequently interpreted as a mandate to unilaterally inflict life as broadly and indiscriminately as possible.
Poor guy just wanted to take a bath in the river.
But nobody gets to have fun in city waters.If I can’t have confirmation that the afterlife exists, NOBODY gets to kill themselves. Fucking idiots.
It’s an evolutionary trait from preventing harm to a herd member. It kicks in automatically for everyone but the far end of personality disorder spectrum, regardless of what rational thought patterns are without the surge of adrenaline.
How bout ya find out what’s on the other side? I can assist with an M3 bayonet.
Not that i support suicide, but wouldn’t letting him do it be survival of the fittest at its prime?🤔
Edit: guys chill, it was just a question.
The other people instinctively want to save him because of kin selection. What you see in this picture is evolution at work.
I understand that, too. I was just curious how others thought of my thought pattern.
“Fittest” for what? For example, more educated people have a higher chance to suffer from a mental ilness. Do you think that humanity is better off if only idiots remain?
Blissfully ignorant is still blissful.
“Survival of the fittest” is not a moral law. It’s the scientific observation that, for populations of organisms that reproduce and make mistakes while reproducing, those mistakes that better fit the environment the organisms are in are more likely to be passed on, resulting in, generations later, those populations eventually adapting to better fit their environment. There’s no obligation to consider and follow it as if handed down by a judge in the same way there’s no obligation to consider and follow gravity when walking outside.
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80 IQ or just underage.
You have a couple of decades worth of life left to deal with. You’ve got an eternity to be dead, and it could suck worse. Plus, if you’re a Buddhist or Hindu you’re probably gonna have to go through it all again. Might as well see this ride through to the end of the line.
As a counterargument I’d like to point out that when there’s enough pain present you might just want to tap out.
Especially now since one of the lovely American corporations decided to fuck up pain medication for those that truly needs it for decades at the minimum, because they just had to get that fucking profit.
I’m not even American and I’m on about a third of what I theoretically should be. My doctors admit this, but anything more and there’s a risk of malpractice bullshit.
Hence, pain. Fuck that. I’ll tap out when enough is enough.
The major flaw in your reasoning is that you’re assuming that there’s less pain on the other side. It could be better, but it could be much much worse, especially if you’re carrying the regret of unfinished business left behind.
Other side? I’m sure when I get there the Easter Bunny will torture me no matter what I do, as is the custom, so why think about it?
Can someone please invent a religitard AI filter to just remove shit like this from webpages? I feel like editing out proselytizing cult sales pitches would be something AI could be great at.
You might believe there’s another side but that’s not important to this situation. You’re projecting your personal beliefs on others.
Literally the entire point of my comment is “we don’t know”. Don’t put words in other people’s mouths, and understand that it’s bad form to attempt to make straw man arguments when you have nothing to contribute to the conversation.
“we don’t know” is scientific equivalency, like
On the one hand 99 scientists think global warming is real
On the other hand here’s a Maggat “scientist” in a red hat from Bob Jones university with a Ph.D in religious studies and geology who thinks everything is okay.
There’s nothing to indicate any human experience is not the result of biochemical processes and that brain death doesn’t end consciousness.
“We don’t know” = how to tell me you’re a religious cult member without telling me you’re a religious cult member
Well this thread has proven conclusively that atheists are just as closed minded as religious folk. I’ve never seen so many angry idiots argue for suicide.
I’ll spell it out one more time for you dumbfucks and then I’m blocking all your asses.
There is no scientific consensus on what happens to the consciousness after death. Period.
It could just end. It could also mean that you lay there helplessly experiencing the absolute pain of every cell dying, rotting and being consumed as it decays.
It could be that you find yourself trying to justify your sins to Anubis. It could be that you end up in Valhalla.
We simply don’t know. And that makes the risk assessment of the action of suicide (as a relief from the pain of living) volatile to the point where the possible gain in pain relief isn’t worth the loss of your life.
That’s it. That’s my entire argument. It’s not Christian, it’s not scientific. It’s fucking assessing a gambling risk. Grow up and get your collective heads out of your asses - the moral grandstanding because you "suspect’’ I might have a religious view is fucking idiotic and obnoxious - you’re no better than the Christians you think you’re preaching against.
Well this thread has proven conclusively that atheists are just as closed minded as religious folk.
This is a memes forum. You’re making some very strong assumptions about the people here. Not a single person in this thread has identified themselves with a religion. This is still you projecting your beliefs on the world instead of listening to others.
There is no scientific consensus on what happens to the consciousness after death. Period.
This is not a scientific question. This is a metaphysical question.
Grow up and get your collective heads out of your asses
I’ll do no such thing!
lol more projection. “We don’t know” is exactly like “both sides do it”.
So then do you know? Seeing as you think you’re psychic and all…
lol lol moving the goal posts. Now I have to PROVE my position to you while yours is the default and requires no further discussion. I haven’t had a conversation like this since I was on reddit.
You are the definition of toxic
If there’s any religion I had to adhere to it would probably be Buddhism, which I don’t, really, except for the whole “we’re born, we suffer and then we die” viewpoint. In that specific case it would only lead to more, albeit different suffering.
Unless you’ve experienced daily pain on the side of 5+ for over a decade straight I don’t really give a shit about what you think though, especially if it is because of some religious belief.
I have a few regrets, but no unfinished business I care that much about. If he wasn’t already an alcoholic wreck I’d beat the shit out of my abusive asshole of an excuse for a father but that’s about it.
The simplest explanation is that it’s the same as before you were born. Can you see how a religious view might lead to unnecessary suffering in this life?
It’s not a religious view - you folks need to take a step back and look at the argument, not your own inferences.
Spoken like a true cult member.
It’s an unscientific view. Maybe in the afterlife you get to finally meet the Invisible Pink Unicorn, so what are you waiting for? When you weigh up all the imaginary possibilities, they add to just about zero.
If it’s invisible it can’t be pink.
Invisible just means you can’t see it, not that it can’t be pink. And remember, we’re talking about a unicorn here.
I wish I could put you in my place and make you read that. Fuck you.
Why? It’s a simple risk assessment based one question:
If I kill myself, will it stop the pain?
And the answer is that I don’t know. Neither do you. For all we know, it could be worse.
To me, that’s an unacceptable risk.
Anything you infer or think I’m implying is based on your own assumptions (which are shallow and self-centered - you have no idea about the amount of pain I’ve suffered in my life, so fuck you very much too - pretty arrogant to assume you have a monopoly on suffering).
My original statement isn’t a moral or religious statement, it’s just one of fact. You have a limited amount of time to live. You have (apparently) an unlimited amount of time to be dead, you will be dead eventually no matter what, and being dead could be much worse than being alive depending on what you experience.
The odds that things will get better with suicide aren’t in your favor. That’s just a fact, kid. Don’t be in a rush to make things worse for yourself and everyone around you.
Occam’s Razor: The simplest explanation is often the correct one. It’s a whole lot simpler that there’s nothing when we die, rather than the whole afterlife business.
Which, incidentally, is what the ancient Egyptian’s conception of hell was:
In order to receive judgement the dead journeyed through the various parts of the Duat to be judged. If the deceased was successfully able to pass various challenges, then they would reach the Judgment of the dead. In this ritual, the deceased’s first task was to correctly address each of the forty-two Assessors of Maat by name, while reciting the sins they did not commit during their lifetime.[15] After confirming that they were sinless, the heart of the deceased was weighed by Anubis against the feather of Maat, which represents truth and justice. Any heart that is heavier than the feather failed the test, and was rejected and eaten by Ammit, the devourer of souls, as these people were denied existence after death in the Duat. The souls that were lighter than the feather would pass this most important test, and would be allowed to travel to Aaru.
The Duat is not equivalent to the conceptions of Hell in the Abrahamic religions, in which souls are condemned with fiery torment. The absolute punishment for the wicked, in ancient Egyptian thought, was the denial of an afterlife to the deceased, ceasing to exist in the intellectual form seen through the devouring of the heart by Ammit
One of the reasons I’ve decided to stick around. Plus, I just like walking like an Egyptian…
What if I’m already sentenced to hell, and prolonging my life is going to lengthen/worsen my sentence due to violations of laws I am unaware of (think of The Good Place)?
What if we’re dealing with a sadistic god, who dishes out punishment proportionally to one’s willingness to hold onto hope - and just ignores suicidal people because they’re not worth the trouble?
What if, as others suggested… nothing, at all?
How did you come to the conclusion that your speculation has more weight than any Roko’s Basilisk type shit I can come up with in 5 minutes just because I’m bored?
Suicides no joke.
Damn the guy must have felt terrible in that moment.
Well yeah you finally have the knowledge that this earth isn’t worth living in and finally overcame your body’s built in instinct to not die, and some assholes literally force you to stay alive by grabbing onto you like nearly every depiction of hell or hades that has ever existed including tying you to the bridge with ropes.
From a suicidal persons pov that’s exactly what I imagine that would feel like. Also the insane amount of embarrassment from a huge crowd of people that are all there because of you. Some of whom are probably “it’s all in your head” kind of people. It is hard enough to open up and show your feelings to one trusted person, let alone an effin crowd.
That said, the guy that they saved can now say “F you and see you tomorrow” so that’s something.
Oh man I’ve got a couple words for ya.
let alone an effin crowd.
A person can be smart, but people are fucking stupid.
Please don’t you ever equate yourself to what more than one person thinks.
You’ve thought about you more and your opinion is the most valuable when it comes to you. Be yourself at all times. Maybe you’ll do it enough and people will admire it. Maybe you have, just always forget about what others think, it has so much to do with you and so little to do with them.
You can’t share yourself if you’ve already molded it to be everyone else.
Edit: I really hope you don’t read this as malicious or corrective, more of just a please don’t forget about you. It’s so easy to compare yourself to others or where you think others should place you, but they can never ever have your perspective. Just be your best you, and at least one person will love that and feel proud of it. That person will be you.
i get that these people need more help than just being convinced not to do it, but in that moment isn’t talking them out of it the right thing to do?
I think the question is who are you to force your choices on others?
This hits way too close to home. In my time I have known many friends and loved ones that have dealt with suicidal ideation and a few attempts.
Every single one of them is doing better now. They’ve all built lives and are happy. They are all so grateful they failed or were prevented from killing themselves.
You don’t turn a blind eye when someone is having a mental health crisis. You help them.
To your point in that moment they are not of a sound mind to be making that decision.
No
I bet they chatted shit to him about their god as well
Or maybe it’s the most cared for he’s felt in a long time. There’s something powerful about having that many people care and dedicate time to saving you.
The reasons for “why” he was trying to commit suicide definently would effect how he feels about this
Fuck you. But I’d save you anyway.
You don’t know if the man was willing to be saved at this point, he may have been in a situation where he wasn’t able to hold himself up. Also this appears to not be the US, I assume they have their own cultural views on suicide and often cultures do have longer term solutions for people who are suicidal, Some cultures in Africa will take a normal workday off as a group and have a public celebration of sorts they will stay in the sun most of the day and community members will all individually take time to talk to the community member in need and show effort to spend time with them about anything at all, they rarely talk about their troubles is what I understand. There are approaches that differ from the west and there’s places with less stigma.
I’m very worried about everyone here. Really, I know that there is a way out that isn’t suicide–it’s revolution–but it seems like you’ve all submitted to Capitalist Realism. I’ve thought about risking my life in an attempt to overthrow the state, but unlike you all, I am legitimately afraid of losing my life. It’d be such a sad note to end my life on. I wouldn’t be there to see any surprising good things happen. I wouldn’t get to see a socialist system established before me, and I wouldn’t be able to do anything to help anyone. How come you all feel fine about death? There’s nothing afterwards. There were the Viet Cong who couldn’t live to see their country establish socialism, there were the Leninists who died fighting the Tsar who couldn’t see the Soviet Union come to be, there were the slaves who died in Southern plantations who couldn’t see Juneteenth. If you were really willing to die, you’d die in battle.
The problem with the Western middle class is they’ve been conditioned to think they’re part of the ruling class.
They believe that the ruling class’ successes are their own, until it’s time to get ready to go to work the next day.
They see themselves as above poor people and believe they’re entitled to more before those who have less.
They always believe the solution to their problems is to make more, not spend less.
The issue isn’t just capitalism. It’s not just greed. It’s a culture of consumerism. Hopefully anyone who has been around for a few decades can recognize how much the social landscape has changed in favor of encouraging people to sell themselves out as quickly as possible.
We are living in the most negative of peaces.
Bruh bleeding out in a pit of mud on the battlefield as other random people fall on top of my already crushed ribs is way fucking worse than a bullet to the dome.
Plus, this revolution could easily go the other direction and I’ll end up being tortured to death anyway. I feel like this take is possibly the most historically ignorant one possible.
People don’t really feel “fine about death” but more like “being alive feels worse than death”.
There is almost always some thing in such a person’s life that is causing such feelings. Even if someone thinks the world is better off without them, it’s caused by how they “perceive” their impact on the world, which can be caused by the way other people interact with them.
Can you explain your ideas in more detail? I’m not understanding, but want to read more.
It was word salad a bit, but I was concerned about people either wanting to die or trying to make clever quips about it.
The term Capitalist Realism I took from Mark Fisher’s book, Capitalist Realism, in which he describes people believing (at the time the book was written) that Capitalism is “human nature”, applies to everything, and that all attempts to the contrary are fruitless. And when someone is buried in debt, and believes in Capitalist Realism, they’d probably commit suicide out of hopelessness. This is why it’s so important to understand how socialism works, and work for its establishment.
TL;DR I understand that the problems are caused by Capitalism. They are fixable, there is still hope, and I worry about so many people considering and glorifying suicide.
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Nobody asks to be brought into this world. You should be allowed to determine when you’ve had enough.
But not out in public.
Whether out in public or in private is better, depends on context.
Although it’s probably a bit beyond social media debate. When it comes down to “seeing a strangers body floating in the river” , “finding your sibling hanging in the next room” or “found at a kindergarten playground”.
spoiler
All of those examples are based on real life acquaintances who ended their lives, and their discovery. And to be clear: The kindergarten one was discovered before the kids arrived.
If assisted suicide was accessible public suicides likely wouldn’t be common. The number of people with exploded heads that emergency responders find would decline drastically I imagine.
Then where? Not like you can walk into a funeral home and be like “Yep, I’m done, I’ll take your deluxe ‘End it now’ package please”
We could change the laws and allow this.
Do you know a place that is not public…?
You can in some countries.
No one is stopping you from trying this.
We should be encouraging these people to take their frustrations out on the ruling class.
Give them something to live for. Something to believe in.
No. You stay. Suffer alongside us. No one clocks out early.
Gross
Then my life goal is to make my continued existence your daily problem.
🫡
Nope. It’s a bad prescient. Society would be a worse place if life had no inherent value.
I disagree, clinicallydepressedpoochie.
I’ve tasted friendship (Ha-ha)
I’ve tasted you (Oh no)
I’ve tasted dying and it tasted good
I’ve tasted heartbreak (Wah)
I’ve tasted food (Uh oh)
I’ve tasted dying and it tasted goodBut that’s dessert
You can have it when the dinner is gone
But that’s dessert (Uh-hoo-ah-oh-ah-oh)
But that’s dessert
You can have it when the dinner is gone
So put it downJack Stauber mentioned!!! What the heck is a normal music video
The anti theses of the Rammstein song “Spring” (jump) where a guy is on a bridge just to enjoy the view until other people come who mistaken it for a suicide attempt and encourage him to do so. This ends when someone decides to actively help him
I can’t take Till seriously anymore, but that is one of my favorite songs ever. The mood is just so jarringly depressing. The song really paints a picture.
this comment section might be insane
Lemmy do be like that.
I want to see the German version next.
reality is insane
insanely based
This capital battery is not yet used up; it may not be ejected.
Just let him rest, people.
Not everyone wants to exist. We didn’t tell our parents to birth us.
Fuck it
Yet we value life above all else. If people reach that point, where living holds no worth, we as a society have failed them.
But at some point mightn’t it be time to accept that?
That we failed people? I just did.
To accept people want to cease to exist? No. Understand it, respect it, tolerate it if to mitigate unreasonable suffering, yes.
Accept it just because, no. Life is not cheap, discardable or disposeable. So, no.
All adults should have the right to euthanasia.
And even children, if faced with health conditions with no hope or chance of improvement or cure.
I’m not against that. Your life, you should - you are - the only one with a word on how to dispose of it.
But to contemplate death because you see no other option for a life worth living, because society, family, friends, whatever failed you, is not the purpose of euthanasia.
Life is worth living.
I take it you’re pro-life and oppose abortions too? Obviously euthanasia wouldn’t be an option for you, you believe ‘life is worth living’ and a ‘precious gift’ and all that bullshit.
Life is only worth living for those privileged enough to enjoy it; and those with this privilege are going to be fewer and fewer as we progress further into late stage capitalism, fascism, ww3, resource depletion and climate collapse.
It’s nice that you’re having such a great time here, but to deny those who aren’t the right to a safe death justecause you can’t comprehend their suffering -is willfully ignorant and will be actively harmful if this ever becomes something we can vote for.
Every adult who wants access to euthanasia should have access. No ifs, no buts.
I voted in favor of the end of criminalization of abortion in my country; it was the first vote I ever cast and am proud of it.
Not that you asked or even deserve a polite answer after that tirade but I actually saw my mother waste away, for years, as a cancer ate her bit by bit. I don’t wish suffering of any kind to any one, so fuck you and your presuppositions.
And if this answer grants me a ban, I will wear it proudly.
It’s a shame and a disgrace we, as a species, came to the point we are today but if we are to blame anyone - here’s my advice - let’s start by getting our asses from the couch, walk to the nearest mirror and curse at the face staring back at us.
I’m fed up with people that by default take the position that everything is lost and there is no hope. So, again, fuck you and fuck off with that mindset.
Be politically active, stand up for your rights, unionize, talk to other people, meet like minded people, create some change, even if small. Actually do something.
Stop judging for a first.
Did I engage you in bad faith? Refused to answer your questions? I just hold different views from you and will fight to keep them, if necessary at the my own life’s risk.
I’ll repeat it again: I do not want the life of anyone, by default, viewed as discardable or disposable. That is an horrendous way to approach life.
we as a society have failed them.
Yep.
are you advocating for suicide? because it really seems like you are
Wholesome crab bucket mentality
FUCKING FINALLY SOMEONE GOT IT!
