The Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday announced it will begin the process of pulling prescription fluoride drops and tablets for children off the market. The supplements are usually given to kids at high risk for cavities.
The federal government and some state legislatures are increasingly drawing attention to what they claim are the risks associated with fluoride, a mineral that’s been used for decades in community water systems, toothpastes and mouth rinses to prevent tooth decay.
Dentists fiercely contest the notion that the harms of fluoride outweigh the benefits.
Next up, Mewmaxxing czar and Orthotropics advisor Mike Mew
When I said we should restrict children’s tablets this is not what I meant, worm.
So - this started as a John Bircher thing right?
I’ve just been befuddled at the purpose and the point of this conspiracy theory. I guess Alex Jones’s dad is a dentist (and a Bircher) but I doubt that dentists conspire for us to have bad teeth.
Just generic “I don’t like the gubmit”? Was it a Jewish person who suggested that we improve dental health on a population level? What’s the initial bit of skin or hair that this stupid booger coalesced around?
I guess these weirdos have always been around. We just didn’t put them in charge of health.
I doubt that dentists conspire for us to have bad teeth.
People with bad teeth is literally their main revenue stream?! I wouldn’t put it past them.
So much for parents doing research and deciding if it’s right for them. Yet another bad faith argument.
This is such a fundamental change to get used to - some branches of government have been a meritocracy my entire life, doing their best to do the right thing, being careful to heed the best scientific advice, that my immediate reaction is to trust them. Then I remember we’re living in a time where the only qualification is personal loyalty and this particular circus is run by a clown
To be fair, the FDA was incompetent / hamstrung in many other areas before. The overriding purpose was to increase profit.
They, at least they are trying something new :D
I guess the fluorides are harmful to the worm lord.
Time to stock up on fluoride I guess….
Is there actually a need to? Does ingested fluoride do anything that toothpaste fluoride doesn’t do?
I beat the rush and stocked up in December, and I hate that that purchase is already feeling justified. One option to keep in mind as well is that tea is relatively good natural source of fluoride. So if things get bad enough, becoming an unsweetened tea-drinker might help.
Its weird hearing americans have to specify ‘un-sweetened’ tea as if its not the norm
I don’t order tea often, but we would also have to specify if we want it hot. I guess I always thought of the options as sweet/unsweet iced tea, or probably nothing because I’d be surprised if they have some earl grey back there.
Yeah, I agree it’s weird. As an American who grew up in an area where sweetened tea wasn’t the norm, I hate having to specify. But I also don’t have any faith left in my fellow countrymen, and feel like I have to make it clear for them.
When my husband was like three his especially neglectful mother wasn’t watching him like always and he ate an entire bottle of fluoride tables and had to get his stomach pumped, this was in the 70s. With childproof caps and general awareness this should really not be considered an issue, kids shouldn’t have unfettered access to pills in general, it’s not a fluoride thing.
Oh, cute.
I commented before that one can get 5 gallon bottled fluoridated water, and would like to again point that out. The fluoride may not be as concentrated as in these prescription-level things, but it’s available. Can throw it on a water cooler.
Brick-and-mortar pickup:
https://www.arrowheadwater.com/products/where-to-buy
Delivery:
It looks like there are also some other brands, like Ozarka, but Arrowhead’s what I’ve used.
Why do that when you can get prescription-strength fluoride toothpaste from your dentist if you are concerned about your teeth? Your dentist will be able to tell if you need it or not. You could also look into varnishes and having custom trays made for your teeth that you leave in overnight to remineralize.
Even regular OTC toothpaste is sufficient with proper application, a proper oral care regiment, and regular interventions from the dentist (e.g. cleanings every 6 months).
Fluoride’s remineralization benefits are topical. Brush, spit excess, and leave toothpaste on 30 minutes before rinsing. Do not drink or eat anything during that period.
Brush as directed, but at least two times a day. Proper flossing is critical as well. Do not leave acids on your teeth without rinsing with water and do not let plaque develop and stay on your teeth for extended periods, otherwise it hardens into tartar and can’t be removed at home.
Obviously certain foods are better for your teeth than others. Grazing/snacking habits can potentially harm your teeth as well. Xylitol mints are a good thing to have during periods where you can’t brush. I suggest rinsing with water after consuming food, and especially rinsing after consuming acidic or sugary drinks, no matter where you are.
Because children have teeth that aren’t exposed to topical fluoride.
Their future adult teeth, growing under their gums, in their jaws.
The only way to build them strong is from the inside out, by getting fluoride into the children’s systems.
Calcium makes teeth strong. Fluoride prevents cavities.
…by strengthening the enamel. Which is a part of the tooth.
This is false. Fluoride is not absorbed in the body and transported to the teeth. It only works on contact with dental surfaces. You do not need fluoride to develop “strong” teeth. It only works on the exposed enamel. Growing teeth would only be impaired if the child had some other disease or deficiency, like calcium. Fluoride does nothing for developing future adult teeth.
The existence of fluorosis, caused by an excess of fluoride being absorbed during tooth formation, before they begin to erupt, shows you’re wrong.
That is a cosmetic defect with no benefit. You do not need fluoride during tooth development. 40% of all cases of fluorosis are caused by public water fluoridation. Just another reason to end it.
The percentage depends a lot of the ppm of fluoride in the water, which is why it’s now set at 0.7 instead of as high as 1.5 in decades past.
But my point still stands that it enters the enamel before any topical application is possible. Which makes me take everything else you say with a large helping of salt
The human body is able to produce strong teeth and enamel unassisted, our diets and habits do the damage. The body is unable to repair the damaged enamel without topical solutions.
If you have a young child where topical fluoride is unadvised, consider nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste, especially if they know how to spit out. I like Fygg’s brand, it’s made by dentists and the studies are promising. nano-HAp remineralization is less resistant to acid, so please consider fluoride as soon as possible.
As always, consult with a dentist and get their advice before doing anything with your children’s teeth — including having regular check-ups with them.
Maintaining systemic fluoride during development does seem attractive to develop tooth structure that is more resistant to acid throughout. However, I believe establishing and maintaining consistent care with dentists and developing solid oral health routines and diet practices, as early in life as possible, are all necessary steps to take and are more than sufficient.
Enamel damage and tooth decay doesn’t magically happen, and education lasts for a lifetime.
Obviously education about brushing and flossing and a healthy diet help more, if the family is able to afford the food and toothbrushes and regular dental care. But in areas where (natural or added) fluoride levels in the water are higher (within a limit of 1.5 ppm, twice what is set for when fluoride is added), there is observed to be less tooth decay and better overall dental health even when controlling the data for the elements you cited.
I am merely trying to drive home the point that all tooth decay is preventable. It’s not some magic genetic defect or simply because fluoride isn’t at the right concentration in water. If your children’s teeth or your own are rotting out, it’s a multifaceted issue, but not outside your own personal responsibility.
We can all do better for ourselves and our children. I am sure I informed people about the proper application of fluoride because no dentist I’ve ever had taught me. They never taught me to monitor for plaque or rinse acid off.
Our diets are literal trash and regulators refuse to regulate for children and adults alike. High fructose corn syrup used to be in most bread and sugar is still added, sugar (HFCS or otherwise) is added to children’s snacks in vast quantities, common dry snacks on shelves (e.g. oreos, cookies) are terrible for our teeth, candy is made to appeal to children, cereal is awful and appeals to children — literally anything you look at that isn’t a whole food, meat, and certain grains is generally ultra-processed and loaded with sugars and potentially acids that rot our teeth.
Rice, pasta, beans, some meat, unsweetened yogurts, and certain vegetables/fruits are all cheap and accessible to everyone. Not all bread is created equal, but it’s also accessible.
Dental care is inaccessible, and that’s the real reason why enamel damage is allowed to progress to decay. Dentists (and schooling for children) do not adequately explain proper dental home care (and what to do after consuming certain problematic foods).
Common toothpastes and dental products trash our oral microbiome as well. I don’t care what the ADA says about these companies, common products suck. When I use typical products, immediately acid-creating bacteria grow in my mouth, no matter how thorough (and comprehensive) my routine is, how often I go to the dentist, how clean my diet is, and how much water I drink. They can do better — and fuck them for the plastic microbeads they added to toothpastes I used growing up.
Hope you understand my reasoning for response.
Because young children have teeth that aren’t exposed to topical fluoride.
Their future adult teeth, growing under their gums, in their jaws.
The only way to build them strong is from the inside out, by getting fluoride into the children’s systems.
RFK Jr. strikes again. I’ll never understand why people like him can’t grasp the idea that the difference between medicine and poison is often dosage.
The amount of fluoride in these tablets is nowhere near unsafe levels. It’s not even close.
Because understanding that would mean his heroin addiction was his own fault, not the heroin’s fault.
He literally doesn’t believe in germ theory.
And I don’t mean ‘literally’ as in ‘figuratively’. He genuinely doesn’t believe in the most basic element of modern health and medicine.
You can’t expect him to then grasp something as nuanced as dosage.
Dude took his grandkids swimming in a sewage infested waterway… I mean, you expect someone like that to have even the loosest grasp of anything resembling nuance?
I really hope an amoeba finishes what the worm started.
That poor worm clearly starved to death
Water isn’t warm enough for them yet
This is all so fucking stupid!
Flouride provides unarguable protection from cavities. To do so it needs to come into contact with teeth.
Flouride also (very likely) has brain health implications. So you should not swallow it.
Obvious solution! : what every dentist already does, swish some flouride or hold it against your teeth, then spit it all out.
Our politicians who want to put it in, and keep it in the water can go right to hell for brain poisoning our youth.
It has brain health implications when ingested at levels way above the standard levels used in virtually all water systems in the United States. Stop spreading bullshit. The only evidence of negative health effects from fluoride is based on studies where people were exposed to over 2x the levels of fluoride in municipal water
2x is not very much wiggle room for something that causes neurological impairment. Countries that do not fluoridate their water have seen the same cavity decline as the countries that do, most likely due to education about good dental hygiene.
Flouridated water in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the US, and many, many more places is 150% SAFE to drink. Curiousaur is just a nutjob.
I am unsure about the other countries, but US tapwater (even well water) is very likely unsafe to drink unfiltered in many areas.
e.g. PFAS contamination is prolific and remediation is only beginning — very few chemicals are monitored or are able to be monitored.
https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/map/
Safe and makes you 2 - 5% stupider are different things. I never claimed it’s unsafe.
And pretty much every study to this effect is correlative. No sane doctor or scientist is going to make kids OD on flouride to see if they go stupid or not.
“Measurable” is the beast here. IQ typically has to drop 20 - 30 points on average to be measurable. So it’s probable that the current Flouride levels of municipal water are dropping IQs by say 10 points on average.
On a population level, I believe they have found that the 2x current fluoridated water levels that OC mentions cause a 1 point drop in IQ. This is huge on a population level.
This is even more nuts than removing fluoride from municipal water systems. At least with that, parents who believe the science that their kids’ teeth will be better off with targeted fluoride treatment can buy the drops and tablets, and those who are afraid for some reason can choose to just not use it.
This is just trying to ban access to fluoride entirely, despite research showing its benefits and the distinct lack of significant harm. Madness.
What next, are they going to criminalize sending fluoride drops/pills through the mail, like mifepristone?
Calgary, AB Canada removed fluoride and a decade later added it back after seeing the effects of its absence.
This is just trying to ban access to fluoride entirely
Well yeah. These are extremists, absolutists, radicals. Their dogma must be simple and without exceptions. If they admit even one scenario where fluoride has more benefits than deficits, their whole ideology and worldview crumbles. Nuance is an existential threat.
Narcissism as a fascist dictatorship of a whole country.
The mechanisms of narcissism and of cults are remarkably similar.
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The tablets get chewed before they are swallowed.
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Hey everyone. It’s bad faith. Like, really bad faith. Watch OP say some stupid shit:
A reasonable user mentions an obstacle to childhood toothbrushing:
I see you haven’t interacted with many kids with special needs. Not everything in life can be easily “enforced” for everyone.
OP:
Sure. Niche cases exist. Prescriptions are still fine.
Also OP, later in that same thread:
It’s not hard to stick a toothbrush into a toddlers mouth. You don’t need a prescription.
See how that works? Remember what this article is about?
It’s bad faith conspiracy shit. Moderators? Anyone? (Edit: Thanks Mods!)
Having fluoride in the water means that you are constantly maintaining a level of fluoride in your saliva which then integrates with the surface layer of your teeth throughout the day as you drink water. If you limit it to just toothpaste then that function only occurs for the small amount of time following brushing your teeth.
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Jfc, multiple studies have shown that increased flouride in drinking water decreases the number of caries in the populations teeth. Its not homeopathic, if it was you wouldn’t even be talking about it because the levels wouldnt be testable. It’s not the ingestion that matters, its having the appropriate level of fluoride in the thing you put in your mouth all day every day that keeps the levels up in your mouth so your teeth keep absorbing it. The benefits of improved population dental health far outweigh the public monetary cost of doing it and the personal health cost to you, a person who brushes your teeth, which is zero.
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Luckily one of my friends has already been down the ridiculous path you’re travelling, so I’ve had the opportunity to spend quite a lot of time reading studies relating to this subject. I’m all good on the topic of water flouridation and dental hygiene thanks.
The mechanism for preventing caries via fluoridated water is the same whether the water is treated by a municipality or treated at home. It is proven effective. Your tips on brushing are great, but they are only effective for the 2 to 3 half hour periods following that brushing. Fluoridated water prevents caries, that is a fact. So why rob yourself of a safety net for good dental hygiene?
So as much as I ‘loved’ watching my friend descend into madness with anti fluoridation nonsense, I’ve had my fill. You asked for the scientific backed mechanism for how fluoridated water helps prevent caries, and I provided that. You clearly didn’t actually want that, so I’m done here. Have fun bud.
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then you put it there using toothpaste
You’d be astonished how many people don’t brush their teeth, so…
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No I think they should just flourinate the water
Well really people should brush their teeth but also since people won’t - including parents who won’t make their kids do it, and that’s not their fault. So flourinate the water.
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What? Dilute to rest of the body mass? Don’t think u understand how this works…
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I do not assert that merely swallowing water with fluoride offers any benefit to do with dental health.
It should be obvious that the act of directly swallowing water containing fluoride would give the water little to no opportunity to interact with one’s teeth, which would be required for the intended preventative effect.
This is very similar to the decision by most nations to put low base levels of iodine in table salt. Given peoples’ daily habits and diet, it was determined to be a safe and reliable way of ensuring exposure to a needed substance for general health. Not everyone has or will have the discipline to apply fluoridated paste to their teeth regularly (hell, many people don’t even brush their teeth regularly!). Nor would many people take steps to ensure they had a recommended dose of iodine if they had to think about it, rather than just getting it through their daily meal …
It should be clear to anyone that it’s the incidental daily, weekly, monthly, yearly cumulative effect of fluoridated water, even in the brief interval before it is swallowed, swishing in the mouth and in direct contact with teeth, that can be of benefit.
Explain to me the science of how municipal fluoridation causes health issues so severe that it should be discontinued.
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I see you haven’t interacted with many kids with special needs. Not everything in life can be easily “enforced” for everyone.
Also watch them ban fluoride toothpaste next.
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Prescriptions are still fine.
This article is about the FDA pulling approval from prescription fluoride. Reading comprehension is hard, I know.
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Do you really believe they will have fluoride prescriptions?
Edit: from the article: will begin the process of pulling prescription fluoride drops and tablets for children off the market.
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“Well I sort of agree with my flawed understanding of what they’re doing so it must be fine.”
We’ve already played this game with abortion. Stop justifying insanity.
They’re not on general sale, they’re prescription. I’ve never been recommended these as a kid or as a parent (for my kids) and this is the first I’ve heard they even existed. They must be uncommon at best.
Explain to me the science of how swallowing fluoride protects teeth.
Easy, you don’t swallow them.
They’re chewables.
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Yeah, I was prescribed them when I was younger (The wonders of living in a state that still doesn’t fluoridate the water supply). They were small little red pills that you had to chew on and then rub the “paste” on your teeth with your tongue.
Imagine basically dehydrated toothpaste, had a chalky texture, not the greatest.
They just banned it in Florida, with Meatball DeSatan calling it “forced medication,” and that if parents want their kids to have fluoride, they can give it to them. Now they want to ban those products, too.
So now we’re just going to reconfigure our entire society to indulge the fantasies of conspiracy theory weirdos?
No reason to reconfigure anything. They have droves of people willingly agreeing to and gobbling this shit up. Our society is fundamentally broken
So now we’re just going to reconfigure our entire society to indulge the fantasies of conspiracy theory weirdos?
Until Americans get off their couch and do something, yes.
I kinda buy the “forced medication” argument, but rather than removing the municipal water requirement, I think the municipality should provide water filters for those that want to opt-out.
I think the evidence is fairly clear that, in this case, opt-in should be the default as it protects VASTLY more than it harms.
Nah, I’m perfectly ok with “forced medication” when the societal benefit vastly outweighs the side effects. Mandatory vaccination, nutritionally supplemented food for children to aid in development, minor things like fluoride that reduce healthcare costs and promote long-term health, bring it on.
Giving credence to unsupported “skepticism” undermines the necessary faith in public infrastructure. Faith is a careful word choice here. I don’t expect the average person to really understand the benefits and chemistry and p-values, as much as I’d like them to. Some things just need doing because you trust the authority saying so. (And right now there are precious few American authorities worthy of trust.)
I can’t agree. Bodily autonomy isn’t a compromise position for me, and I think “faith” is a vice, not a virtue.
It’s not a compromise it’s the cost of a functioning society. Measles. Smallpox. Polio. Whooping cough. There are extremely real costs to “personal choice” in the face of disease. Those costs are quite often passed on to children. Rickets. Fetal alcohol syndrome. I don’t think parents should be free to make harmful choices for their offspring.
Faith is the compromise. I wish that every single adult had the education, interest, and wherewithal to make ethical and well-informed decisions about themself and their dependents but that’s not the world we live in.
Bodily autonomy doesn’t allow parents to make choices for children. It does allow people to make choices for themselves. Nice try at shifting those goalposts, tho.
The context of this thread is healthcare for children.
You could make a great movie about the fluoride prohibition of the 2020s.
[Opening shot: A dark, rain-slicked cityscape. Neon signs flicker. A child’s toothbrush lies abandoned in a puddle.]
Narrator (gravelly voice): In a world where fluoride is forbidden…
[Cut to a sleek black SUV speeding through a checkpoint. Inside, a woman in a lab coat loads a capsule into a hidden compartment behind a false toothpaste tube.]
Narrator: …one syndicate dares to keep the smiles alive.
[Cue dramatic music. A warehouse door slams open. Inside: crates of fluoride tablets, glowing faintly blue. Armed guards in dental scrubs patrol the perimeter.]
Agent Plaque (sternly): “They’re dosing kids in back-alley clinics. We need to shut them down—permanently.”
[Montage: high-speed chases through suburban cul-de-sacs, a drone crashing into a jungle gym, a slow-motion shot of a fluoride pill flying through the air and landing in a glass of water.]
The Molar (smirking): “You can take the fluoride out of the pharmacies… but you can’t take the sparkle out of the people.”
[Cue epic music drop. Explosions. A toothbrush sword fight. A child grinning with unnaturally white teeth.]
Narrator: This summer… the fight for dental freedom begins.
FLUORIDE WARS: THE SPARKLE SYNDICATE
Coming soon to a theater near you. Brush responsibly.
You could make a great movie about the fluoride prohibition
We already have one: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.
They try to make Americans weak, sick, and dead on all fronts. As of the US government was under control of a hostile country.
Don’t forget stupider
If Trump is a Russian sabatour he’s doing a fantastic job.
Let’s go all out and replace them with meth. Instead of protecting teeth, we’ll eliminate them. Who needs a dentist when you have no teeth? Think of the savings!
Lisa needs braces.
Nice try, Big Soup! Paying a lot for medical treatment is the American Dream!
Haha! I’m actually from Big Stew, you fool. And I run a side gig with Big Applesauce.
You can’t eat stew without teeth!
tst gonna need to have a sacred daily fluoridation ritual for its devout followers.
