Shit in the glove compartment to assert dominance.
Cup holders are just cups to hold your cups…piss in them.
Hi. 3F Copenhagen member here. I believe the scaffolders club are organising something over a similar situation that is, however, less intrusive than yours. Your situation is like a horror story version of what the scaffolders are getting (GPS tracking, logging of their company vehicles. They don’t have AI… Yet…).
Do you have a union you can turn to?
Holy fuck you all are a bunch of callous assholes. Telling someone to “join a union” or “ask your union” about it are fucking mental. Do you really think OP is working a union gig or are you really that stupid to think you just go out to the union store and ask for one union card? How is this helpful to anyone who is in a non-union job working for a non-union company. I’ll bet you all are the same people that tell depressed people to “just be happy.” It’s just useless, if not ourtright malicious, advice to give someone.
Well, if it is not helpful advice for OP it is not bad advice.
It’s really not even advice. It’s just self aggrandizement and dumbass people looking for a circle jerk to join. It doesn’t address the issue that OP has in the slightest practical way, and is kind of callus to their actual problem.
There are two camps in this thread. On one side you have people saying to move to a workplace with a union. On the other hand you have people advising criminal retaliation, vandalism, sabotage, and fraud. And you have a problem with the unionists.
I have no problem with unions and I’m extremely pro-union. I’m also practical and not naive enough to think that you can join a union in every job. They don’t exist for a lot of jobs at all and you have to be very diligent to be able to form one without losing your job from unjustly being fired.
What I hate is people giving shitty advice so they can feel superior. “Join a union” is great advice if your job/field already has one. “Join a union” when someone has a work dispute with their clearly non-union employer is idiocy and belittling to the person that is asking the question. I made the analogy above, so I’ll turn your question on its head, do you think depressed people should just try to be happy? Because it’s the same level of advice as, “Join a union” in this instance.
No, it’s on the same level as “make major life changes” to either a depressed person, or someone working in a non-union environment. There is no analogy needed. Sometimes you cannot make major life changes, even if it might help with significant problems. But we don’t know that. It’s valid advice. Unlike everything else said in this thread.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. You’re right. It’s insane that for some people “create a union” seems to be a magic solution that anyone can just magically do on their own.
There is a lot of magical thinking and ideology in this thread, very little grounded, human to human advice.
Only if US drivers would stop driving like idiots and idling their motors wasting fuel.
Don’t American cars have a start stop automation that stops the engine as soon as the car isn’t driving? Or are they also disabling it?
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It exists in some cars, but it’s clunky and anyone with used car experience gets a jump scare every time it happens. It’s really only well implemented in hybrids.
That’s gotta burn out starters really fast.
Those Solera devices you’ve got are relatively common automotive IoT fleet trackers. They usually have gps antennas. They talk to the engine and transmission directly over canbus. Then they process that data and report what they see over a cell network. If they see nothing, they report that too with a heartbeat signal and various error codes.
Depending on the model, they sometimes have external cell antennas connected with a mini coaxial cable. Find it and unscrew it all the way, then re-screw it in by only 1 and a half rotations so it’ll hang on but barely. Then clip the nearest ziptie so the cable wobbles free. It’ll cause the nut on the coax to get a stress fracture in under a year. They will have to replace the gps/cell antenna module and those are like $300 a piece through Samsora. In the meantime you’ll get iffy signal responses. Don’t let them catch you cutting the zip tie on camera or you WILL lose your job.
Your truck will be in the maintenance shop relatively frequently at the request of whoever reads the reports for repair of that cell module. They won’t find anything wrong with it, scratch their butts, then just screw it back down and replace the ziptie.
Unscrew it and clip it again.
Or, conduct yourself with integrity. Advising someone to compromise their integrity is pretty shitty.
Eh. OP already told us they had no integrity. Ever met a truck driver? The overwhelming majority of them have no morals or integrity. There’s a reason why. It’s because they get to get paid for not being around people - it attracts people who suck. Not all truckers suck but the overwhelming majority of them do. I can’t post something that will suddenly make some of them read it and go “By gum… I should become a better person!” But I can post some shit that might make their boss’s job more difficult and possibly get OP fired which might be funny in a chaotic-evil kind of monday morning shitpost way.
None of that elaborate rationalization you just performed changes anything. You admit you counseled something unethical, but you want to insist that reflects on OP, not on you. So now it’s not just a failure of integrity, but it’s also sophistry.
its unethical to … not listen to your shitty boss. gotcha.
I like that you think I care. Like I said. Chaotic-evil monday morning shitpost.
Ever met a Lemmy poster? The overwhelming majority of them have no morals or integrity. There’s a reason why. It’s because they get to post while not being around people - it attracts people who suck. Not all posters suck but the overwhelming majority of them do. I can’t post something that will suddenly make some of them read it and go “By gum… I should become a better person!” But I can post some shit that might make their posting more difficult and possibly get OP banned which might be funny in a chaotic-evil kind of monday morning shitpost way.
You do me proud by copypastaing my shitpost
what does it mean to ‘clip a ziptie’?
don’t let them catch you, you WILL lose your job
Hey director of IT for a trucking company here, i just want to reiterate this part!
Don’t fucking do this. Any of this advice. You WILL lose your job and we WILL blacklist you from the industry for this shit. Maybe if you drivers could actually mange your fucking log books and follow the safety regulations we wouldn’t need to have ELDs and camera and GPS and fucking canbus monitoring and annual inspections and all of the other “”“invasive nonsense”“” the government requires.
I dont want it either. Its all crazy expensive, annoying to manage, and I have to constantly deal with drivers complaining about it.
Sorry. I’m a little upset with this issue because its a constant issue i have at work. But no there is nothing you can do besides just get another job.
I just want to reiterate it again. Do NOT mess with the equipment your company has in your truck. At best you’ll just get fired but I’ve seen my company respond with legal measures in the past.
Man i have had drivers i work go full on road rage. No really he reached up and tried to tuen off the camera. Im not sure if had a fake button or he jist pressed the wrong on. Bit he the grabbed a gun and got out. This was after pushing a car in the cement baracade.
Its crqzy what some people do in cars
You’re the fucking problem. Maybe if you treated people with humanity and worked towards a common solution instead of using technology to drain people’s souls, you wouldn’t have people that hate the shit you’re slinging.
What you do makes the world a worse place to live in.
He didn’t say he was management and bought the stuff. He said he worked in IT. So with any power to make decision across a fleet.
I appreciate you defending me, but I did say I was director of IT so unfortunately I am management. But it wasn’t me deciding to install this stuff on our fleet, it was the federal government.
I’m also a supervisor at work but I don’t always get to decide on things. Often senior management gets an idea in their head and then I have to figure out how to implement it without breaking everything.
I do get to say I’m against something and I told you so. Which is usually followed by a compromise solution.
The director of IT at a trucking company absolutely would have power over the devices used by said company.
Trucking is so funny. There is an adversarial relationship between the drivers and the office, which you can see in this comment.
The industry is trying to solve safety issues caused by the nature of long haul driving and maintenance of profit in logistics by companies that use their services.
Trucking used to be a way a person could provide for their family, remain independent, and feel in control. Now, trucking is an industry where you are trapped in a moving computer designed primarily to reduce the insurance rates of the company that employs them, because their business practices and demands were so dangerous, individuals truckers had to drive more hours, get paid less for those hours, and literally drive themselves, and other motorists around them when they crashed, to death.
Then they blame the truckers as they race to bottom in hiring. Don’t even get me started on nafta. Your industry sucks for the employees who are necessary to keep the economy moving.
Trucking used to be a way a person could provide for their family, remain independent, and feel in control.
Still can. There are still owner-operators, and they have significant control over how they do their job, as long as they aren’t caught cooking their books (…which is what most drivers used to do before there were crackdowns, because you got paid per mile). They usually get paid a lot more than fleet drivers, because fleet drivers aren’t responsible for the maintenance of the truck.
The safe way to fight back is through the trucking unions, which don’t seem interested in getting rid of this invasive software.
But if every trucker did this they couldn’t blacklist them all.
Unions aren’t interested in pushing back against the invasive software because they know drivers haven’t been following the rules.
Basically nobody in the industry wants this. It makes it harder to do our jobs, it’s more annoying, and it’s crazy expensive. But it’s what you gotta do when drivers run 2 or 3 log books.
Yeah, this is a problem of pushing compliance to a level above the operator in an area where the perfection demanded by policy relies on traffic behaving perfectly, and drivers never experiencing delays or problems, to operate. The only way this goes away is a scarcity of drivers.
Someone who believes they know how to drive will suggest automated trucks, but the accident lawsuits will probably bankrupt the first companies.
It would work if you made lanes for self driving trucks.
Because no one would drive in them ever, they would respect the sanctity of the truckpool lane.
Yeah, and you assume other drivers won’t drive in the wrong lane
You could then tie a bunch of trucks together, and have them run on this special lane.
This is brilliant! You can even let the front truck pull all the others tied behind it so you need fewer working engines.
What if you added guide rails to the lane so the trucks didn’t have to steer?
End result? We turn into crabs. 🦀
And we could manage traffic stops when one is going to cross another street so it can save on fuel for not having to stop!
I dunno, companies would start cutting costs by firing all but the front driver. Need strong unions in place before that.
Woah buddy, you’re just talking crazy now.
Reading this thread is really selling that dream job.
You all keep doing what you’re doing and there will be no drivers left to squeeze out and make their life even more miserable.That’s the idea. Replace them with driverless vehicles.
The IT lackey just trying to make ends meet has no say in this process.
this is a similar argument to the nazis. this is how bureaucracy and management normalize oppressive conditions. a bunch of weak yes-men
Reductio ad Hitlerum is a really weird thing to pull out of your ass on this particular discussion.
idk man, it only happened like 80 years ago. seems to be more relevant than ever.
ah, the just following orders guy
truckgpt will be here soon, unfortunately
You know there’s plenty of control freaks micromanaging everything underneath them even if it pisses off their best people to the point of quitting.
Especially those 1 or 2 rungs higher up the chain who need to make up problems to solve so they can justify their existence.
you’re confabulating
you drivers could actually mange your fucking log books and follow the safety regulations
you are part of the reason everyone hates management. the overburden of society by technofascists like you will result in many horrible repercussions down the line.
giving nerds any power over workers was a mistake
Counterpoint: I would love to not be run over by a truck driver that decided that when redbull stops working a swig of whiskey will help him be awake after skipping the night sleep. You know how I know that I would love to not be in this situation? Because this exact situation happened to me and it sucks, even though I survived.
If anal probes is something that prevents heavy equipment operators from breaking the rules, so be it. I would prefer them not need that also.Personally I’m very pro-probe. All the probes, all the time.
Hey so it’s actually the federal department of transportation that decides we need super invasive tracking! And they decided that after a ton of accidents directly caused by drivers not paying attention and working crazy hours.
I also don’t want to pay or manage this crap but here we are.
I’m a little upset with this issue because its a constant issue i have at work.
maybe find a new job where you don’t act like completely garbage manager? or work to find a human centric solution rather than… oppressive digital technologies?
I hope you end up with a neurolink in your skull and are constantly monitored for wrongthink.
Maybe if you drivers could actually mange your fucking log books and follow the safety regulations we wouldn’t need to have ELDs and camera and GPS and fucking canbus monitoring
Those companies would deploy this shit anyways even if the logs were perfect. Anything to blame the employee can and will be deployed.
Those companies would deploy this shit anyways even if the logs were perfect.
I want to say that businesses are famous for spending enormous amounts of money to fix a solved problem sarcastically but I’ve been working too long to believe it.
Still, so much of the problem isn’t with the monitoring but the annoying middle-management response of stack-ranking all the drivers. Rather than just playing your hand, big employers are constantly trying to reshuffle and “optimize” staff in order to squeeze out an extra ounce of profit. And the end result is everyone being immiserated in order to give someone with a marginal fluctuation in performance a raise.
Anything to blame the employee can and will be deployed.
Shit rolls downhill.
Look I can tell you that no company wants to spend enormous amounts of money (we spend close to 7-figures per quarter for asset tracking) and pay an entire team of people to micromanage drivers. Plus companies and drivers make less money because they have to actually follow the rules now.
ELDs have been around for a really long time. It didn’t become standard until 2017.
Same old shit. Companies treat employees like machines and numbers on a spreadsheet and demanding more and more productivity while paying lip service to rules and regs yet knowing that employees will skirt, bend, or break the rules to meet whatever sterile metric the beancounters set within the expected window.
Don’t meet the metric? Get some bad performance reviews. Start referencing the safety rules that slow you down? Not a team player. Get fired for some nebulous problem.
Most of the time it’s ignored, but when something goes wrong the company just blames the employee for failing to follow regs.
Automated system reporting just keeps the costs down by creating a higher turnover of employees.
So, what I’m hearing is “don’t struggle or it’s gonna hurt more”. I think this advice is horrible.
No. It’s two things.
-
Maybe truck drivers should have followed the rules better and drove safer. Drivers cooking their books have caused enormous amounts of harm and death, and that’s ignoring the huge loss of money when a driver crashes because they’ve been driving for 26hrs straight.
-
Don’t fucking damage company property. This is actually my biggest sticking point for this whole thing. I dont care if you like it or not, the hardware is not fucking yours and the hardware being there is part of your employment agreement. Don’t like it? Tough shit buddy take it up with the DOT.
Look, Jim, I know you don’t like the explosive collar we bolted to your neck, but you’ve GOT to stop messing with company property
-you
No its more
This thing is not owned by you and is required by the federal government. Please dont damage our very expensive hardware
But yeah blow it up to an unreasonable level and anything sounds crazy.
The only part required by the govt is the electronic logbook. It doesnt need gps. It doesnt need ai. It doesnt need cell. It only needs the electronic logbook. So yeah - blow it up
Fun fact, ELDs require GPS. It’s easy to find public information. There is also this web page which goes into more details about the “why” we have to have ELDs installed in trucks.
And the cell service is to allow the actual device to communicate back to the parent. At my company we use Samsara and Motive.
We do not use any AI features because we don’t need them but I have talked to guys at other offices that do use it. Largely it’s because of insurance. You can get crazy discounts on insurance for running something with the AI tracking. There are also some AI programs that optimize routing but those are “”“AI”“” features not necessarily AI.
That’s an awesome sermon from somebody who knows literally fuck all about trucking.
The industry created the problem by demanding that drivers go beyond any form of reasonable work, drive endless unsafe stretches and cook the books or they’re the ones getting canned. It’s an industry which downloads all the pain onto the drivers.
Shut the fuck up when you don’t know what you’re talking about. Don’t just show up to scold people and make crap up and pull things out of your ass. You know nothing about trucking and that’s clear.
I like how you ignored the part that actually upsets me about this.
Don’t fucking damage company property
-
Who tf references a truck driver blacklist?
This is gonna blow your mind… But other transportation companies…
HR, always.
This is literally 90% of what they’re paid to do.
Truck driving companies…??
My dude. How would you like a camera over your shoulder every minute of your workday, recording your every move? What might you do faced with that?
I work in an office with cameras ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
“I’m oppressed so I must also oppress those I have power over”
What’s their justification for needing them?
I sure hope they don’t use the word “team.” Because that ain’t it.
Its an office space we lease. I am not sure who originally installed them as they were there when we moved in.
We do manage them and retain the recordings though.
If i were a new employee I would see it as a lack of trust. Also as some kind of buy-in to the idea that you must be doing “justifiable” actions every minute of the day.
And that’s completely understandable.
But I know, at least in our case, it’s just there for insurance purposes in case something happens. Which, thankfully nothing has.
…and you’re okay with being recorded all day long, just like that?
I understand the practical limitations of privacy. But as the IT admin i am also the one who manages the cameras and access to them so that helps.
shown it my nuts
Name checks out
Nice
Well the whole bit about backing out the nut is to cause it to fail in a manner that looks more like a maintenance problem and not a driver problem. Even when stuff like that only happens on one cab, it’s not enough to point at a singular driver.
And yeah all of that advice comes with the rider that “you may be unemployable” afterwards.
Yeah I get that. But you aren’t clever and you aren’t the first one to think about that.
We will catch you
Eh, that’s never true. Some people will be caught. And the typical person who gets their CDL only works a few years before they realize the industry sucks for drivers and burnout.
I’m not going to claim a 100% catch rate, because that’s impractical.
But we absolutely do frequently fire drivers for tampering with their trackers. Theres about 15 layers of checks and balances preventing a driver from disconnecting or otherwise disabling it.
Man getting unemployment sounds like heaven.
Lol I don’t care about OP getting caught. This isnt the r/goodlifeadvice
Doubt it
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Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do. “Tattling” programs are quickly becoming a staple of any sort of logistical jobs. Companies will parade it around as if it keeps people safe, or it protects the honest employees. It’s designed to give them reasons to get rid of you.
You speak the truth.
I know it sucks. And corps are playing with the automation line. They don’t want to replace too many jobs with automation because that will trigger the need for UBI to off-set the amount of jobless people no longer driving the economy. So, instead they’ve resorted to “churn and burn” practices. Things that allow them to burn people out and toss them aside and make it the workers fault.
More than that. It’s designed first to enrich insurance, AI, and other business interests, to drive down wages and eventually replace humans with autonomous vehicles. Irobot.
Yeah, in a world where we are short of drivers and they are hiring questionable people, they are looking for reasons to fire you.
Doubly funny if OP is American, where you simply don’t need reasons to fire people.
Right to work is very misunderstood online. It’s not the freebie everyone seems to think it is.
If you terminate sometime without documented cause, you can’t deny their unemployment claims and must keep paying them in all 50 states.
The myth that they can fire you with no recourse is something they want everyone to believe so that nobody files for unemployment. when they’re entitled to it.
That’s definitely going to change in this political climate. There will be states where the head of the unemployment insurance will just stop paying at Trump’s direction and ignore court orders. MMW
This is true in every state but Montana.
I program tattling programs for non-logistical industry. It does let us know if people mistreat equipment or even break speed limits. But what pays the bills is predictive maintenance or responding to reactive maintenance needs more quickly. We can reduce scheduled maintenance for longer and prevent failed parts from causing too much damage.
Sure it’s a different industry but generally employees are expensive to hire and even more expensive to lose. Losing a job because of a number in an algorithm that decides to tattle is rare unless that employee is a total piece of shit that we were looking to sack for other reasons. Usually its a “Dude samsara told us you blew the speed limit in this town and we’re going to get fined out the wazoo and you’ll lose your DOT license. Dont do it again”. If they do stupid shit again and get caught by the police, they might lose their DOT status for some number of months and be unemployable until it is restored. So really it is a safeguard to prevent that from happening in the first place and helps them KEEP their jobs longer.
Give your truck a lobotomy.
No. If you want privacy, transportation is the wrong career. Trains are much the same.
You form a union and bargain with your employer. Thats about it though
Yea give up to A.I. that’s the only choice.
Nope, refuse.
Try to fight your company without organisation and you will be giving up your job. Look up the laws wherever you are and form a union. Be smart about it though and dont get caught in the act of forming it.
I think you misunderstand what a union does.
Pretty sure literally nobody here said that
that’s what your company wants you to believe
Don’t be a pussy.
Let me explain why companies are doing things like this. They’ll make unreasonable demands and when you make mistakes as a result, the AI will capture it and they’ll use that in court to blame you as the employee and try to hold you personally liable. This is their way of saying you’re nothing more than a liability to them. Fuck this system. I’d start demanding a new employment agreement to protect yourself.
Or seek greener non-ai-infested pastures
Could try a wifi cell jammer. Ai don’t do shit without internet
That’s going to be incredibly illegal to use outdoors. Make sure you know what the regulations are before engaging in any kind of jamming, you might block someone else’s emergency transmissions.
better to find the antenna and short it out. jammers are at best illegal and at worst you end up leaving it on and fuck up someone’s 911 call.
Probably true, couldn’t think of another solution that doesn’t damage the vehicle
Until he drops off the truck at the office and it uploads everything at once.
Yes this problem likely won’t be solved without someone taking apart the telemetry software. Spoofing the sensor data is an option if you understand how the data is collected but hardly a good option for someone without a specific skillset
Do you have to violate laws/regulations laws to meet schedules? Perhaps malicious compliance and adhere to all laws. As some have said, a union could help. If you don’t have to violate laws/regulations to meet schedule, perhaps consider adhering to laws/regulations.
HARD BRAKE DETECTED!
You seem kinda despairing and dismissive of the obvious answer… talking to your union.
You have no power over your employer, but your union does.
Additionally, and this is kinda wild but, have you spoken to your supervisor? What did they say? Did you explain what it is about it that’s so annoying?
I’ve worked as a consultant for companies that use this type of thing and most disable the verbal warnings and stuff because they’re not helpful in any way.
Not all of us have Unions… Just saying
Sure ok.
IDK how things roll in the US. In Australia I think most jobs can find a Union.
Even if you don’t formally unionise, talking and negotiation is the way to resolve this. If all the drivers express their misgivings to their supervisor in unison they’re likely to be heard.
In the US the manager is likely to tell them all to pound sand if they dont like it. We have very few workers rights here sadly. You are correct that being in a Union would be much better. I wish we had more of that here, but a lot of people believe the BS that they get fed from thier corporate overloards that Unions are bad.
