• @[email protected]
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    29 days ago

    So… No one in here has tried to learn Mandarin in here huh?

    Let’s talk about Hanji, heck worse let’s talk about:

    四是四,十是十,十四是十四,四十是四十;
    谁把十四说“十适”,就打他十四;
    谁把四十说“适十”,就打他四十

    Which is pronounced like:

    sì shì sì, shí shì shí, shísì shì shísì, sìshí shì sìshí;
    shéi bǎ shísì shuō “shíshì”, jiù dǎ tā shísì,
    shéi bǎ sìshí shuō “shìshí”, jiù dǎ tā sìshí.

    • @[email protected]
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      19 days ago

      This is China-nese. Original Chinese, its

      四是四,十是十,十四是十四,四十是四十; 誰把十四說“十適”,就打他十四; 誰把四十說“適十”,就打他四十

          • @[email protected]
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            19 days ago

            No I mean the minor difference ones. Or how I am supposed to memorize 5000 hanzi to be considered college literate. This is a bunch of repeating but good Lord there is a lot of individual characters out there.

            • @[email protected]
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              19 days ago

              It’s sorta like memorizing the word encyclopedia. I’m sure if there were a handful of letters missing or wrong you could still read it. Because you don’t memorize the letters but what it looks like. Exactly how Chinese works.

      • @[email protected]
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        8 days ago

        I don’t know all the words in this, but I doubt it; it’s a classic Chinese tongue twister.

        The first line translates to "four is four, ten is ten, fourteen is fourteen, forty is forty. On the second & third line it’s something along the lines of “whoever says 40/14 says <X>, <sth> 40/14”, as far as I can tell.

        Spoiler

        No, I don’t want to use a translator, where’s the fun in that?

        • @[email protected]
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          8 days ago

          Yeah, so that last bit is supposed to be
          “If someone says 14 like 40 hit them 14 times, if they say 40 like 14, hit them 40 times.”

          • @[email protected]
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            28 days ago

            Ooh nice, thanks :)

            I recognized 打 as something on the lines of hitting or striking, but wasn’t sure if it actually had that meaning here, or something (seemingly) unrelated as in 打的.

      • @[email protected]
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        59 days ago

        Nope, but it does come up if you get tested for breast cancer.

        Point is, that yacht isn’t a difficult word at all. Especially not if you’re European, since the word for yacht in many European languages is… yacht.

    • @[email protected]
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      69 days ago

      Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän. Actual word for an actual job that existed until 1991. Welcome to German.

      • @[email protected]
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        29 days ago

        eh people always point to German but they just use compound words more often. if you know the parts that make up the word it shouldn’t be hard to parse.

        • @[email protected]
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          39 days ago

          that makes german easier than most other languages, for example french, where they just invent new sounds to fuck with foreigners and use a new or loanword for any complex situation, instead of just compounding the information

    • @[email protected]
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      19 days ago

      I mean I have no idea what that means but I bet it breaks down into something resembling a good descriptor. English causes issues with four letter words with two O’s in the middle.

      • @[email protected]
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        19 days ago

        It’s a medical term or word or whatever. But it is not easy to pronounce at all. That’s the thing with Danish. We have a lot of letters that are silent or changes sound depending on what letters they are next to and sometimes just because.

        Even if you have skildvagtslymfeknudeundersøgelse broken down for you, I doubt you’d be able to pronounce it correctly because several repeat letters in that word are pronounced differently and some of them are silent.

        Words like: ord, ost, mos, mos and orden all have vastly different ways of pronouncing the o and mos and mos are completely different words with completely different pronunciations where you can literally only tell which one it is based on context in the text. By themselves, you will not know.

        Every language has their little quirks like that, but everybody knows how to pronounce yacht as yacht is the word for fancy boat in many languages. The post above is basically like being impressed that a foreigner knows how to pronounce “okay”.

    • Camelbeard
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      59 days ago

      Hottentottententententoonstelling in Dutch. It means hottentot tent exhibition

    • @[email protected]
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      39 days ago

      Fascinating- I don’t speak Danish but I can _almost_read that. Enough to assume it has to do with thyroids and lymph nodes.

      • @[email protected]
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        9 days ago

        It is a medical word for getting tested for breast cancer. I didn’t bring it up because it is a difficult word to understand, but because it is difficult to pronounce correctly without stumbling over it. Yacht is not difficult in any way since our word for yacht is also yacht and because the spellings and sounds are pretty common in for example German, which is another language we are being taught from an early age.

        Of course, all languages and their difficulties are relative depending on where in the world you live, but if you’re European, especially western European, then it is pretty silly to be impressed that people can pronounce yacht.

        Having a long word like skildvagtslymfeknudeundersøgelse is a lot more tricky since it’s a bit of a tongue twister to pronounce and if you aren’t well versed in Danish, you will also not know when or how to pronounce each letter, as several of them have different sounds or no sounds at all at different places in the word. That is why I brought it up.

    • @[email protected]
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      18 days ago

      I see your Danish and raise you a German bureaucracy:

      Rindfleischettikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz

      It means: Law for the transfer of the task of the monitoring of the labelling of beef.

  • @[email protected]
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    9 days ago

    I remember when I was a kid and we started learning foreign languages in school. My class got divided into two halves, ones that study English and other that study German. Few month later I was walking down the street with my classmate and he went like:

    • Oh, so you’re studying English, huh? What does DUHR mean?

    • What?

    • DUHRR

    • Oh, you mean door? It’s spelled do-o.

    • Bro, there’s an R in there and two O’s. DUHR. Even I know that, and I’m not even the one studying English. If door was do-o, then would you spell TOH DOH as “to do”?

    Little did the bro know… I hope he at least got German well enough, AFAIK there’s little bullshit like that

  • @[email protected]
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    29 days ago

    FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

  • tiredofsametab
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    39 days ago

    Not exclusive to English, but English definitely has a ton of things that just follow no pattern (even by root language, though if you know that, when it was borrowed in, and what vowel shifts it did/not have, you might have a chance).

    This did immediately make me think of “Simone Giertz” from Sweeden whose name’s pronunciation sounded like ‘yecht’ to me.

  • @[email protected]
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    29 days ago

    Try looking up “colloquially”. That’s going to be a rabbit hole. Oh, speaking of. Idioms. English is one of the hardest languages to learn.

  • @[email protected]
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    379 days ago

    Monolinugal people thinking that the pronounciation of some rare words is the big issue when learning languages…

    Dude, try memorizing the correct grammatical gender for every single noun or every single exception to regular declinations. And that’s just for a medium-difficulty language like German.

    You know how there’s simple English versions of news articles? The same thing exists with German. And the language in these Simple German articles is more difficult than the regular English version.

    English is THE easy mode language of the world, which is why e.g. pretty much anyone in Europe defaults to it if they are speaking to anyone who speaks a different native language. Like, if someone from Austria speaks with someone from Ukraine, they will use English.

    • @[email protected]
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      79 days ago

      try memorizing the correct grammatical gender

      Americans don’t memorize all that shit for English either. We just start using words. German is the same. Don’t try and learn it out of a textbook, just start talking and reading.

      And the best part is you can pronounce their words pretty logically.

      • @[email protected]
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        79 days ago

        Americans don’t memorize all that shit for English either.

        … because it doesn’t exist in English. Of course you don’t remember things that don’t exist.

        Don’t try and learn it out of a textbook, just start talking and reading.

        Yep. That’s why you can pick out every American stumbling through German even after they spent 20 years in the country, because they can’t get any of the things that you have to memorize right.

        And the best part is you can pronounce their words pretty logically.

        If you think that what they teach in American schools in German, then maybe. But seriously, pronunciation is so not the hardest part about learning languages.

        And as I said, German isn’t even a hard language either. That goes to e.g. Finnish or Hungarian (at least for western languages). But English is an easy mode language.

      • @[email protected]
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        29 days ago

        What the fuck do you think learning vocabulary by reading is, if not memorization? You’re just doing it subconsciously rather than intentionally.

        • @[email protected]
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          19 days ago

          Language acquisition and rote memorisation aren’t exactly 1:1.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_acquisition

          It’s like the difference between reading a dictionary and only going forward after you’ve learned a page by heart vs simply starting to read simpler novels even when you don’t understand all the words, and picking it up as you go along. Understanding form context.

    • Chloé 🥕
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      9 days ago

      i mean, no, the reason english is the default language of the world is due to (british, and then american) imperialism

      french and latin were once the default languages of europe for the same reason

      and how hard a language is to learn is kinda irrelevant, because it will always depend on what language(s) you already know. for monolingual speakers of english, it’s hard to learn a language with grammatical genders, but if you already speak a language with those, that won’t be a problem

      • @[email protected]
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        39 days ago

        The ideia of gramatical gender is kept, but the specific genders may be different, so it’s still pretty hard

        At least that’s how I felt when learning spanish or french

      • @[email protected]
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        9 days ago

        “for monolingual speakers of english, it’s hard to learn a language with grammatical genders, but if you already speak a language with those, that won’t be a problem”

        Not necessarily. I’m German and I still have to learn French grammatical genders by heart, because they don’t necessarily match ours. Familiarity with the concept doesn’t make it any easier, just less weird.

        Example: The tower. LA tour, feminine. DER Turm, masculine.

        • Fushuan [he/him]
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          09 days ago

          That’s more of a Germanic vs Latin languages. Most genders on french and Spanish match.

          • @[email protected]
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            69 days ago

            Lol, they don’t even match consistently between Portuguese and Spanish which are much closer, even when the noun is literally the same (e.g.a água vs el água)

          • @[email protected]
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            69 days ago

            What? no

            I know portugueses and spanish and I’m learning french and it make it all even more complex

            Since in one language it’s something, in anofher it’s something else

      • @[email protected]
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        169 days ago

        but if you already speak a language with those, that won’t be a problem

        Tell me you are a monolinugal English speaker without telling me.

        The problem is not wrapping your mind around the concept of grammatical genders, but that you have to memorize them for every word. And they are different in any language with grammatical gender.

        For example:

        • Italian: La luna (female), il sole (male)
        • German: Der Mond (male), die Sonne (female)

        or

        • German: Das Huhn (neuter)
        • Italian: il pollo (male)
        • Spanish: la gallina (female)

        Knowing the grammatical gender of something in one language won’t help you one bit when learning another language. In fact, it might be even detrimental, because it’s different in every language.

        • Chloé 🥕
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          49 days ago

          Tell me you are a monolinugal English speaker without telling me.

          tu penses mon nom d’utilisatrice vient de quelle langue?

          of course not every language has the same grammatical genders, but if you already speak a language with them, you don’t have to learn the concept, you already get it

          when learning Spanish in school, grammatical gender was really not an issue, cause i already speak french (to be fair, french and spanish will often gender the same words the same way, which greatly helps ofc)

          to me, it was much harder to grasp the distinction between ser and estar, for example. two fundamental verbs that, in french, get translated to the same thing

    • @[email protected]
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      29 days ago

      Well, they all speak it in western Europe because it is the language of the victors of WWII, and is since taught in schools.

      We have English from class 5 (mandatory), French or Latin from class 7 (mandatory), then, optional, Latin or French (whatever you did not take) from class 9, and something like Italian or Spanish from class 11. Some schools offer wider selection like Polish or Russian, or even Greek like they did in my nephews school.

    • FundMECFS
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      28 days ago

      I don’t get why people keep saying German is harder to learn than english. I struggled much more learning english as a second language than German.

    • @[email protected]
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      69 days ago

      English is THE easy mode language of the world

      English isn’t easy at all. It’s an obnoxiously difficult, confusing, and contradictory mash up of half a dozen Mediterranean languages.

      If you want an easy language, learn Esperanto. If you want a business language learn English.

    • I Cast Fist
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      69 days ago

      English is THE easy mode language of the world

      hahahaha, no, it is not. A significant amount of words are ambiguous if isolated from their context (take “fire”: as in fire a shot, a flame, fire a worker, “this is fire”?), pronunciation is all over the place, it feels like there are more exceptions than rules when it comes to past-present-future verbs

      • @[email protected]
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        49 days ago

        The old man the boat.

        Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

        Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.

      • @[email protected]
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        59 days ago

        Šovė į kažką = shot someone, šovė į orkaitę = put in oven. This is pretty common for all languages words can have multiple meanings.

      • AItoothbrush
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        49 days ago

        Lol the english monolinguals. Hungarian “Lóg”=to hang, “lóg az iskolából”=to skip school. Extremely common thing in every language. Also most languages are irregular just to different extents. English irregularity is mainly in some of the past tense forms and spelling. I would count gender as an irregularity(depending on how it works in the language) which english doesnt have for example. English doesnt have cases which are another struggle for a lot of people learning languages. Then there are languages that are not as irregular, but they have extremely complicated internal logic which is just harder to learn than just learning by a case by case basis. Id put hungarian here where there are usually reasons for why things happen but it just got lost in an older version of hungarian or its so complex theres no point to learning it. Also there are things that do actually seem to be completely fucking random and are even annoying as a native speaker.

      • @[email protected]
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        139 days ago

        Only someone who has never learned a second language thinks that this is difficult or somehow special to English.

        • I Cast Fist
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          19 days ago

          I never implied those problems are special to English, but that English is not “THE easy mode language” due to those problems, plus many others I didn’t mention

        • @[email protected]
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          49 days ago

          As someone who has learned four different languages and studied a dozen more, English is on the harder end of the spectrum to grasp phonetically. The nice thing about English (and other Romance languages) is the alphabet. Compare that to Chinese, with a laundry list of characters to absorb or Arabic which omits a bunch of vowel sounds, and you experience a lot of trouble.

          But compare English to Spanish or German and you’ll find it to be unusually confusing and difficult. Pronunciations, secondary meanings to certain terms, and the haphazard grammar all make English a game of learned reflexes rather than logical progressions.

          That’s not special to English, but it is more pronounced in what is effectively a mongrel outcropping of assorted Western European dialects.

          • @[email protected]
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            49 days ago

            The thing with English is you just have to learn phonetics by hearing, not by reading. It’s quite simple actually. It only has a very limited amount of language-specific sounds, and you just learn the written and spoken forms of each word individually.

            The really nice thing about English is that everything’s prepositions not cases, there are no grammatical genders and half of the words are just Latin. If you know any other romance language, you can just re-use all the latin-based words you know and you’ll be mostly fine. You only have to be aware of a handful of false friends and that’s it.

            I don’t think that English has more words with secondary meanings than other languages or anything like that.

            I, in fact, do speak German, Italian, Spanish, English and a bit of Welsh. German is my first language, so can’t say how that is to learn as a second language, but English was by far the easiest to learn of these languages. Sure, it’s the least phonetic one of these, but that’s really the only disadvantage it has.

            • @[email protected]
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              19 days ago

              The thing with English is you just have to learn phonetics by hearing, not by reading.

              Sure. And you could say the same about Chinese, which is a fairly simple language to learn if you never want to be literate. But as so much of our communication is via text, the literacy angle is an insurmountable part of language learning.

              • @[email protected]
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                9 days ago

                English spelling is easy enough that in 95% of cases you can match up the spoken word with the written word.

                How’s the percentage of that for Chinese?

                In fact, if you want a language where it’s actually hard to know how a word is pronounced if you only ever see it in the written form, you gave yourself the answer.

                • @[email protected]
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                  19 days ago

                  in 95% of cases you can match up the spoken word with the written word.

                  I’d be curious to know if that’s actually true.

                  How’s the percentage of that for Chinese?

                  If you know your radicals? We’ll say “also 95%” just to be annoying.

                  But how do you learn the radicals? Same way you learn all the standard English pronunciations. Repetition.