I joined reddit on the tailwind, so it was all echo chamber, we hate newcomers, gatekeeping, automod frenzy, too many rulebreakers, too many rules, etc I could be wrong, but thats what I imagine it used to be like.
I was on Reddit since almost the beginning and I would not say it’s similar, but I also don’t think that culture exists on the internet anymore, closest thing might be tildes?
What I really miss is the intelligent conversion and actual debate in the comments. People don’t really lay out arguments anymore, complete with sources and logical conclusions. Back in the early days of Reddit you’d be downvoted and told off if you made a claim without evidence. Anecdotal evidence, speculation, and bias were called out. There were still jokes and light comment sections, but comments aiming to make a point were essays where you could actually learn something. Might sound exhausting to some, but it feels like the internet has turned into just upvoting whatever confirms your bias, whether there’s evidence of it or not. I’m sure you can find some excellent comments in the old r/bestof posts.
The content was a lot different too, the community was just a lot more scientific. Studies were posted over articles, and clickbait articles (before they were even clickbait) were called out as not having substantial content or evidence. Even studies were heavily scrutinized by identifying the bias in the methodology.
There were a lot less communties (subreddits) too, which I think lead to healthier discussion overall and less of an echo chamber effect. It was still always criticized as being a “hive mind”, but it felt less like one to me back then anyways.
I guess overall it feels like the main difference is everything nowadays is meant to radicalize you, or get a reaction out of you. Back in the day if something political or scientific was being shared it was shared with the intention of changing minds, not confirming bias.
/r/askhistorians was the last bastion of this approach. I loved that sub and really hope they migrate to a lemmy soon.
Kinda pain in the ass to add links and formatting on a phone which most of us use. Early days of reddit was all Desktops.
Yeah good point, that’s probably part of it! Reddit was probably used more during active time than passive time (while shitting). Gave you time to properly research a topic and structure arguments.
I also remember constant reminders to vote on the quality of the post, not if you agree or not.
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Haha yeah, I don’t know if that disclaimer is still there, but that totally went out the window in the mid 2010s
It’s not and that’s because it’s bad for Reddit’s business model in the short term. If you zoom out this is exactly why reddit is on a nose dive over the last 3 years. More. Shit. Content.
Downvoted.
Not a laid out argument, complete with sources and logical conclusions. This is anecdotal, speculative, and biased information.
Serious note : Love your perspective about the old reddit I’m always curious to know what made internet what it was. I wonder if that’ll happen again.
Source or gtfo!
People don’t really lay out arguments anymore, complete with sources and logical conclusions
I only joined reddit like a year or so ago and have recently ditched it. I was never a fan of someone just spamming links to studies and condescending to me while doing so. I think people use links to sources as a way to control conversations. Or at least, that’s all I ever saw it used as.
I appreciate this take, and I strive to make intelligent conversation here on Lemmy.
M
yea that reminds me when facebookk first came out and it was only for college, my friends would post stuff like that
My favorite was old days of Reddit you’d be skewered for posting a .jpg instead of a .png of the image had text.
JPG should be killed off. We don’t need a lossy image format anymore were not on dialup.
heard of 3g? theres better compression out there now anyways
Asking what’s the difference got a response about three paragraphs long.
I wrote some of them.
I was user 2600 or so on Reddit, and yes indeed it does. I just love this size. When I compare the content here and on Reddit, for me it’s a world away now. The vast majority of things on here are relevant and interesting to me compared to reddit where it’s all just low effort garbage and reposts.
The memes about site outages also reminds me of 2010s Reddit!
I feel like I’m the only person on lemmy who hasn’t experienced an outtage issue.
Did I just pick the best instance or something??
My small instance had some instability while Beehaw was being botspammed in the random magazine. My instance’s administrator explained that it was related to how Lemmy handles banned accounts in a very database inefficient manner. I think he also has an update not go as smoothly as anticipated once. But Lemmy.world being the largest instance gets the pleasure of discovering new scaling challenges as it grows
But, the big thing with the outages is I just went “oh okay, I’ll just do something else then” just like the couple of times I experienced a reddit outage. I don’t think it’s as much a thing as the memes make it in both cases
Yeah, I still have yet to experience any kind of outtage and I signed up through Lemmy.today but I do see other people complaining about and they’re not on the same instance as me.
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Yep, having jailbait as one of the top subs is not a good look. But in other places it’s more pleasant. I miss the novelty accounts before the coming of bots.
i miss when spacedicks would make some gross disgusting shit get to the front page 😂
All the tales of Eden have been told by those who stayed till the fall
At least when CP is posted here it’s a malicious attack instead of a Reddit Approved Top Sub.
Wasn’t there comments that people didn’t like the fact the comment feature arrivée at one point?
full of weirdos
“There are no sane people, only underdiagnosed” - soviet doctor probably
My brother, this is exactly what Reddit felt like in the beginning.
M
You are right… Reactionaries are everywhere, not even limited to online! A lot of the problems on social media are much the same, or the platforms had gone through similar at some point in their journey.
can confirm, this place is as much a shit hole now as reddit is.
God I hate redditors.
You wanna elaborate what problems you’re having?
Dude fuck reddit. They ban/suspendel accounts for seriously petty shit and then give no recourse and you can’t make new accounts. It’s absolutely bs. Yes I am bitter but I am glad to have lemmy because it does feel like reddit but I don’t feel so gauged by edge lord mods… Well yet any ways… got into an argument with a mod they reported me for harassment and I got banned… I have tried to make new accounts and the get suspended. I tried VPN and then making the accounts and it worked for a bit, but then they suspended me again cause I commented on the sub I got in a fight with the mod on… Such bs
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What? It’s not a copy pasta . This happened. I was sunshine-filters and had over 90k karma. Had the account for four years alone with my alternative account that was similarly named. Lost them both. Super pissed. Made new emails and new account, Instan bans. Found the VPN strategy and it worked for a while until it didn’t… still not sure how the VPN failed me
I got a warning for making a report on an automod comment and basically said the moderators are being oppressive and unjustly closing down comments. Five days later, I haven’t touched reddit at all because I switched to lemmy and got a notification that I was banned from reddit because of the same report that I had received a warning on. I guess warnings on reddit are meaningless because you will still get banned or suspended even though it is the first “offense,” which isn’t hard to do when you tell mods they are jerks. I immediately used shreddit on my account and promptly deleted it with feedback that reddit banned me for a first offense that was a warning at first. Literal cancer of a site and glad to be rid of it. My life is better, and lemmy helps with communicating with the small communities I like.
I shared a link to my google drive with free and available to everyone PDF’s of tabletop roleplaying game supplements and got banned for piracy lmao
Dude screw reddit… I should have quit July 1st when they took away my boost for reddit 3party app… but I couldn’t stand FB discussion which is deluded with terrorist claiming to be Christians and Republicans… I can’t stand the boners they get for any cop video… So I tried going back to reddit… then the ban came… I searched around and some how found lemmy… and I am glad I did. I like it here better. I like that it’s new too
I’m not sure, i made a comment on the controversy over linus tech tips, basically there may have been miscommunication and we should wait and see before demonising anyone. But people took what i said the wrong way and downvoted me to eternity. It was quite depressing. I didn’t say anyone was wrong or anyone was right. Just stated i’d been in a position before where people misunderstood my intentions so i understand how easily it can happen.
Happend to me too. I’ve asked on a Post about modern slavery in London why they don’t just go to the Police because I was really just curious. I was sure there was a reason why this was not an option but I couldn’t think of any. And then I just got insulted and downvoted. After a few hours and a post asking why I get downvoted later, the tide turned and it got balanced out. But people can be real POS over here too. The Account insulting me was deleted after i reported him. Im not sure if He was just a Troll or an genuine ass.
I really can not stand the mentality behind insulting people who are asking questions.
I’ve even stated that I’m asking a question in good faith and being genuine and somehow people turn that shit into “you were insulting me by asking”
The lemmyverse, is rife with sock puppets. It’s very easy to make a bunch of accounts for down voting. And brigading is easy here too, let’s not forget we have a general population, we don’t have specialized pockets really. So if something’s generally unpopular, but is technically correct, it will get downvoted regardless because the general people outweigh the individuals.
Overtime we might have communities that require community reputation to post in, or vote in, like we saw on Reddit.
I just want to say waiting for more data is always the right thing to do, especially with any new internet drama, so I respect your position
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A major difference being that the fediverse won’t get that “advertiser friendly” corporate sanitization with how it’s set up.
It’s nice not being advertised to or feeling like a product.
I think you underestimate the sheer fuckery of corporate advertisers.
I think the fundamental question is, as the Fediverse gets more popular, then how will servers get paid for? Here are some possibilities I see for how Fediverse hosting could work at scale:
- Surviving off donations alone: Possible but in my estimation unlikely, and it could veer into the territory of big donors having a controlling stake or exerting their interests.
- Instances limiting number of users to what they can afford: This would require the network of instances process to really work well.
- Big instances selling advertisements: Without oversight or moral commitment, this could easily go towards creepy personal data collection.
- Crowdsourcing the costs: This would require transparency and fundraising or some other model
- Hosts financing the operation in other ways: This could also easily get into creepy data collection practices or other dark patterns.
I hope we come up with some process or plan for avoiding the pitfalls and forging an honest and community-integrating way forward.
I think the next good solution to delay the march of normalcy is stronger community bias / branding.
Especially when the public gets to be anonymous. Then they believe they can do and say whatever they want to, no matter how shitty
Aka eternal September
Ah yes, the common addition that ruins pretty much every equation. People. People suck 😂
The only solution is to make your own private instance and never allow anyone to join. Perfection at last… Oh, wait there’s still one human ruining the atmosphere. Not to worry, there’s a quick fix for that. You just need to ban yourself and then the instance will be completely perfect forever.
So far I share your opinion. So far…
I find Lemmy to be an echo chamber more than Reddit was. Depends on the community but Lemmy can be pretty caustic if you don’t agree with something.
That being said, is fine there is different opinions. Creates discussion.
Honestly, the fact that Lemmy displays upvote and downvote counts (like reddit, at least with RES, used to) makes it a lot friendlier. If you say something unpopular, better to see +10/-4 than just -6 - if you’re saying something unpopular but true, at least you’re seeing some positive reaction.
And when you know it’s going to be unpopular, that +1 feels better than the -12 feels bad. You got through to someone!
This alone makes it worlds less topic and less circlejerky. People won’t automatically groupthink themselves into disregarding you if they realize that your comment was divisive instead of wrong.
+15/-45 gets that across better than -30
YouTube/Google also made this mistake. Or, I’m sure it is tested to make some KPI look good. But, certainly not the ability to discern “is this video garbage/scam” at a glance.
Sure, I’m clicking more videos to find a relevant one. So, probably “increases engamement”, but also reduces my willingness to pay for the service. But, I suppose it’s mostly driven by ad impressions.
This must depend on which app you’re using.
Sync just shows the total, I’d prefer if it didn’t show at all.
Haven’t used Sync but I bet they carried a lot of the UI stuff over from reddit and didn’t update that. Default web UI for lemmy shows the up and down.
A little bit easier than using the wayback machine:
It definitely feels that way to me. And it also felt like Reddit went to shit so slowly, I didn’t even notice, like the mythical frog in a pot of water on a stove. It took me 13 years to break free. I hope Lemmy stays small to be honest. I’m old enough to remember the Eternal September on Usenet.
Sounds glorious.
hey I’m doing my best to be rude, scabulous, irascible and misanthropic out here.
There are antibiotic creams for scabulousness these days, how advanced is your case? 🧟♀️
ha. typo. I meant scabrous.
Ed Sheeran level. He’s too far gone
/j
My dick looks like a pepperoni pizza.
We appreciate your work.
It’s an aggregated increase in technical debt. It’s not a rule by any means but it seems to rhyme in the web space, think Digg ,/dot, geocities ,yuku, ezboards.
