The instance seems to be mostly right wing trolls. I know defederating is unpopular but I don’t think much is to be lost in this case and it can save the mods some headaches.
Edit: the response on exploding-heads.com to my reporting of transphobia. Courtesy of the “second in command”
@chalkman >hEy cOuLd wE deFedErate wITH exploding-heads.com/
is this the best redditors can come up with??? :guraKekw:
Isn’t it just better to do it on your own accord?
If you do not wish they mingle with you, block the community you do dislike. You can even block individual person.
If you do not want to participate in theirs, just don’t visit them.
Defederating is extreme, it takes liberties and freedom from other users, and should only be used as last resort.
EDIT: @eta_aquarid, why you are discussing this instances meta, you are from kbin.social? And then why you blocking me? Is there some sort of brigade going on here?
EDIT2: So many other unrelated instances’ user come in here. Wow. There are some coordinated attacks to make sh.itjust.works worse huh?
KBIN.SOCIAL PEOPLE: This https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/39264/Hey-could-we-defederate-with-exploding-heads-com#comments means it is HOSTED on sh.itjust.works instance! It is NOT kbin.social post! Even if you can see from your instance!
Wtf, what liberties and freedoms does it take from anyone? No one has the right to anyone’s attention nor any instance. They aren’t being blocked from using the software.
@[email protected] I swear I can’t reply to you for half an hours. Kbin probably have some issues.
But, how about nonpolitical community? How about people who do not wish to participate in drama of defederating and only want to talk to each other?
Since you are from kbin.social, the outcome of this thing does not affect you at all. I wish you do not participate any further to stir the pot.
considering that I’m definitely not the only kbin user on this thread, no?
and that “nonpolitical” thing, what does that mean?
What do we consider as so normal that believing in it or saying it is considered apolitical?
because the context here is that there are alt-right users on an instance and the instance is either doing a bad job of getting rid of them, or is completely fine with them being there
and maybe that’s apolitical to you, but not to a lot of minorities
I’m not blocking you; had you been replying to what I said?
also being blocked from an instance doesn’t mean you’re suddenly not able to use the Fediverse; it just means that that instance doesn’t want to associate with yours
this can be fixed by just moving to another instance, or (in this case) getting rid of the alt-right shit
Defederation isn’t an attack on free speech; it’s a group saying that they don’t want to interact with you; freedom of expression doesn’t mean everyone must listen
These guys fucking suck, no doubt, but I really prefer that we put the impetus on users to block communities they don’t like rather than pursue total defederation
Being tolerant without limits not a good way to handle right wing trolls. Trusting right wing trolls to moderate themselves is, imo, not a route to success.
Call me an outlier, but isn’t the point of using Lemmy (and similar federations) is to allow free speech? Now federations are de-federizing day one? I don’t like this trend
No. The point is so that servers can do what they want without influence. If a server hates Nazis, then they don’t have to participate with them. That’s their right.
If a server wants free speech, they can do that, but it’ll always eat itself and that’s fun to watch as people piss and moan now that people don’t want to engage with them.
If you think this is about free speech, I think you should join a free speech server. I’ll laugh when you find out free speech servers are just hateful places without consequences, though!
Oh I’m not actually on shit just works.
I’d rather the user blocks what they don’t want to see
That’s a cop out. Blocking requires engagement with the content, and some of us want a blanket ban so it doesn’t seep into our space.
I just want to post about fun stuff without having to wade waist deep in content that wants people to kill themselves.
Guess I’m just more liberal here. Agree to disagree. I personally miss the wild west attitudes of the early internet
The problem is the paradox of tolerance
Don’t de-federate unless they’re allowing the planning of violence, CSAM material, or actual abuse.
As a leftist I see it like this:
Blocking someone is: “I don’t want to see this”
De-federating is: “I don’t want you to see this”
Blocking someone is: Ignoring a person saying bigoted things.
De-federating is: Jailing a person saying bigoted things.
If you can’t handle people saying shit you don’t like then you need thicker skin. If you can’t engage in a conversation with a person who shares an opinion that you fine distasteful then you need to seek maturity.
If you can’t disagree with someone without physically attacking them, then you don’t deserve to be part of a community. If you can’t exist without abusing another person, then you don’t deserve to be part of a community.
Wait, whats the argument against jailing shitty people? No one’s abusing them or attacking them just nobody wants to hang with them in any way shape or form.
nobody wants to hang with them in any way shape or form
Then each person, individually, makes that choice.
If you choose to not hang out with a person in a cult that’s fine. But you shouldn’t block them off from every other person, what about the people who are trying to deconvert them. What about the people who are keeping an eye on them to make sure they don’t do crazy things?
Your desire to interact with them should only control your actions, you shouldn’t try to impose your desire to block a person or community on everyone who shares an instance with you.
Nah ppl should not stand by and watch literal human garbage thrive. Let them stew in their own hate, alone.
Sounds like you’re painting with a mighty broad brush. Which specific people and posts are you talking about? Because if you find a ‘literal human garbage’ poster you can click their name and click ‘Block User’.
I don’t need you to curate my block list for me.
lol, defederating is not anything like jail
- Federating is like sitting at a big table with a bunch of people in a restaurant.
- Blocking is moving a couple seats down from someone who’s being an asshole so you can’t hear them anymore (but meanwhile they’re still harassing your friends, you’re just ignoring it)
- Defederating is separating the group so that you’re no longer at the table with the asshole and their asshole friends
Now, in a tolerant society, we should be tolerant of people who are merely annoying. But not people who are normalizing violence and hate. There are people you fundamentally should not sit at a table with.
It’s important to understand the difference between a good faith disagreement and bad faith propaganda and harassment campaigns, which is what the right wing troll farms deal in.
Defederating is separating the group so that you’re no longer at the table with the asshole and their asshole friends
The issue is that you’re no longer choosing who you interact with you’re choosing who everyone interacts with. You’re walking away with a table that other people are sitting at. This isn’t Reddit you’re not banning their subreddit, they’re not deplatformed, you’re just adding them to the block list of everyone on your instance.
You have no right to tell me what I can see and respond to anymore than I have a right to tell you who you can and cannot block.
You have no right to tell me what I can see and respond to anymore than I have a right to tell you who you can and cannot block.
That’s also not what defederating is. Nobody’s speech or ability to see speech is being restricted, since we are all free to set up accounts on other instances. Users are making a reasonable request to the instance owner for a normal moderation action that is in line with stated community standards and past defederation decisions (i.e., lemmygrad); the instance owner is free to honor it or not.
The basic question, which every fediverse instance has been having to deal with since inception, is how to draw the line on communities that willingly include bad actors. It has to be drawn somewhere, and where you draw it says a lot.
If you blocked everyone on that server, you’d never see them again.
If you de-defederate them then nobody here can see them and you’ve blocked everybody on that instance for everyone on this instance.
If you block them it doesn’t affect what I can read and respond to. If you de-federate this instance from their instance then you are choosing who I can see and who I can read and who I can respond to.
From your point of view there is zero difference between them being de-federated and you blocking their users and communities. From my point of view there is a significant difference between them being de-federated and you blocking their users and communities.
If you were just worried about seeing what they write then you’d block them. If you run a community and are worried about their users posting in your community, you can set up a moderation script that blocks posts coming from their server.
You’re trying to make choices that affect how other people on this instance interact with the entire Fediverse. It is not your role to decide what other users can read and respond to.
You have no right to tell me what I can see and respond to anymore than I have a right to tell you who you can and cannot block.
This isn’t Reddit you’re not banning their subreddit, they’re not deplatformed, you’re just adding them to the block list of everyone on your instance.
I can manage my own block list. You can manage your own block list.
You can’t manage my block list, and I can’t manage your block list. Fair?
No. You can start your own server if that’s how you want it. That’s fair as designed.
I’m not the one trying to change the server.
If you’re not happy here then there are other instances for you.
As I quipped about earlier, based on what a lot of people are saying in here it’s kinda bullshit that we de-federated lemmygrad then. But to your point we just need a short list of things that sh.it will defed over so that policy can be applied consistently.
These big discussion threads on the main community here have actually had a lot of healthy discussion in them which is encouraging. All of these things are just initial growing pains that the broader lemmysphere is going through right now to find its footing. Things will even out.
I’d like to decide for myself what I want to see and what not, as an adult.
I agree. I don’t like this whole principle of dictating what members are or are not allowed to see. Defederating should be a last resort. Everyone has a block button.
Fuckers like you are the reasons this is going to fail. Redditor neckbeard hivemind that mass downvotes everything they disagree with.
If you’re getting downvoted everywhere you go, maybe your opinions are just shit.
Downvotes from asshole Redditors usually means you’re doing something right.
If you step in shit everywhere you go, look under your own shoe.
but it won’t even affect you.
Defederation should be the LAST and FINAL option. From what I understand, this is a small instance that isn’t causing much trouble outside of their instance. Block them on your own! I’m on lemmy.world, but personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post. I don’t think we should start going around defederating communities that we disagree with, even though their opinions are shit, vile, offensive, and disgusting. Leave it up and block them on your own.
Edit: 10 years ago I used to be one of those intolerable fucks. Yes - exactly like them. Until I talked to other people on Reddit, real life, and listened to other ideas. I had a change of heart and hope even a couple of them could too. It happens.
Yes exactly. Just like there are idiots in real life, we ignore them and move on. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if we disagree with it. Sure people can spout some nonsense devoid of facts we can down vote if thats the case .
You might disagree with someone on politics but like the same sports team for example. There are humans on either side so like in real life we can get along and don’t need to agree on everything.
If something is illegal or its hate speech or something like that then report and block the user and the content.
If you don’t like a community you can block it but if we shut off instances all of the time I can guarantee you the fediverse will just turn into isolated echo chambers and we’ll all be forced back to corporate walled gardens.
If we can coexist in real life we can coexist here.
We need our views challenged to grow. Being corrected is a good thing thats how we learn. Life is short at the end of the day let’s not try to take it too serious.
❤️
holy shit, how do I even begin to explain that you can’t just “ignore” Nazis and racists and transphobes and letting them keep their platform
you do understand that they hurt real fucking people, right???
“personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post”
The shit they post is the gateway to worse things for some. You’re still free to go check what’s going on over there, it doesn’t mean they should have access to our space.
gateway to worse things for some
so you’re basically saying “there’s nothing wrong with this, but let’s ban it anyway because it may be a little wrong in the future”?
Where did I say there’s nothing wrong with what they say?
In the OP you’ve got the perfect example: “I’m not racist but I can point to BLM and criticize it…” that’s exactly how you plant the seed that leads some people to racism, with that “but”.
I’ll share it again and again: https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g
Communities keep deciding not to react to alt-right users until it’s too late to get rid of them.
… are you saying you can’t criticize BLM?
also that yt link lol
i probably already watched it but will again cuz i remember liking it.
upon rewatching a few minutes of it, i can see there’s a few fallacies here and there but doens’t mean it’s wrong.
final edit: wow does he make a shitfuckton of assumptions to just say “if we allow jordan peterson to have a youtube channel we’re killing poor black people”
No, I’m saying that it’s exactly the way the alt-right opens doors to more extreme opinions. “I don’t think X but…”. They keep moving the window of what is and isn’t acceptable this way.
Let them participate here and that’s exactly what they’ll keep doing until the problem is too major to control because they’ve taken over (see /r/Canada even before /r/metacanada was banned) or a mod puts their big pants on and say enough is enough and bans their instance, but then you’re still stuck with all the users that got converted.
100%
I don’t like how r/conservative handles their moderation but I don’t think their subreddit should be nuked.
But things like Men Going Their Own Way, and The Donald or any other subreddits promoting violence and direct hate deserve removal (or de-federation). De-federation should be used as a tool of last resort. For places who are turning to actual violence or outright hatred.
I cannot stress how strongly I disagree with exploding-head’s stance on Trans rights and racism but if someone has an odious opinion on gender affirming care or trans athletes then they should be met by people who counter their ideas. Simply cutting them off into isolation provides zero chance of changing their minds.
I understand that some people have no interest in debating people who disagree with them, and that is entirely ok. Block any community or poster that you find offensive but defederation is not something that should be used regularly.
I was also kinda surprised that sh.itjust.works doesn’t block exploding-heads as most instances I’m aware of do. That coupled with the fact that the instance doesn’t block them but blocks lemmygrad made me think at first sh.itjust.works was going to be some far-right instance, but from what I’ve seen it isn’t. Though, I don’t understand why sh.itjust.works would want to federate with them, considering their content often violates the rules of the instance.
No. Nazis need to be blocked by the instance admin. Otherwise, it’s time to look for a new instance.
My experience with exploding-heads is they are mostly level headed serious users and not trolls at all. Defederating because one person had their feeling hurt is dumb and ruins the fediverse for everyone
Great opinion, let me check your comment history to vett your perspective…
HAHAHAHA you argue like a child and have 0 perspective. Thanks for the opinion but no thanks.
He’s very clearly just here to troll, not to provide any actual perspective or discussion.
Hey kbin users if you want to block this domain just go to https://kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com and block that domain there.
This. Kbinauts should encourage using the block button, rather than demanding defederation. Curate your own experience, don’t try to curate others’ experience. Please and thank you :)
deleted by creator
Not really a fan of putting on shades so I don’t have to see the nazis in the nazi bar
just kick the nazis out
you’re on kbin.social, not on sh.itjust.works, so first of all, why are you voting on what sh.itjust.works does?
sh.itjust.works is not a defederate-happy instance. If you want to join a defederate-happy instance, unlike kbin.social and sh.itjust.works, consider one such as the following, where exploding-heads.com has already been defederated:
- beehaw.org
- lemmy.ml
- lemmy.blahaj.zone
Let’s wait for per-user instance filters to be implemented, then everyone can block instances to taste. As long as their users don’t cause trouble in our communities, there’s no need for our instance to act as a moral guardians and decide what our users can and cannot see. Defederation is a nuclear option that should only be done if their instance is disrupting our instance’s operation (spamming and breaking rules while in our communities).
I like that sh.itjust.works currently federates with almost everyone, and I can see a big part of the fediverse from here. It would suck having to visit multiple instance to see the whole fediverse.
If per-user instance filters are implemented, perhaps instances could have “default blacklists” for new users for stuff like exploding-heads or lemmygrad that most people don’t want to see, with the option to manually un-block them if someone does want to see that.
