“Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side. We will bury you,” he said quoting former USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev.
Russian politician Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday Russia could have a right to go to war with NATO.
I mean… I can’t see any issue with NATO not stopping Ukraine from invading its own territory… the territory the UN recognizes as part of Ukraine… and which Russia signed three separate treaties promising to respect as part of Ukraine.
Not doubting you for a second, but can you point me to the treaties? I seem to have to convince people over and over on this service that Ukraine is an independent country with recognized international borders.
One of them is the Budapest Memorandum
Not sure which are the other to. Perhaps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Protocol
It’s always fascinating to hear Putin talk about “history”, and “denazification”. You know its a lie, so you can observe a mad man lying, and perhaps believing that lie. Like a child telling an obvious lie and convinced he pulled it off. Except, less cute and more terrifying.
The point of the lie isn’t to convince. Everyone knows it’s not true. The point of the lie is to make others repeat it, proving that they value your favor more than they value the truth.
It’s a loyalty test.
I listed them in another comment in reply to the question… i wasn’t even including the Lisbon protocol, wild.
Yes of course… Russia acknowledged Ukraine’s borders and territorial integrity when:
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Ukraine was admitted to the UN in 1945 with its current borders (which Russia could have vetoed).
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Ukraine’s sovereign status and territorial integrity were guaranteed in the Belovezha Accords in 1991, which recognized the dissolution of the USSR and the borders and sovereignty of the former member states.
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Ukraine agreed to transfer control of its 4,700 nuclear weapons to the Russian Federation in exchange for guarantees by the US, UK, and Russian Federation that they would not threaten to use (or use) military force against Ukraine… in the Budapest Memorandum in 1996.
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Russia specifically recognized Ukraine’s sovereignty in Crimea when Ukraine agreed to lease it military bases there (and split the Black Sea fleet, stationed in Crimea, 50/50 in 1997) in the Partition Treaty.
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The two countries agreed not to declare war on one another, to treat each other’s territory as inviolable and to prohibit the use of military force to resolve any future territorial disputes in the same year’s Treaty of Friendship.
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Russia agreed to “final borders” in January 2003 (which include Crimea, Kherson, etc)
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As you know, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014; they signed a ceasefire in 2015 once again confirming Ukraine’s territorial integrity, but this was almost immediately violated, so I’m not sure I’d even count it.
Hope it helps. The three that were top of mind for me were 1991, 1996, and 2003.
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If you go to war with one NATO country, you go to war with all NATO countries.
The only interesting question here isn’t how the war will go, it’s how the NATO countries will get to divide up the spoils after Russia is crushed.
Mate, you can’t even win against a non-NATO country, that happens to be the poorest in Europe.
But sure, you have the right to have a war with everyone. Even if we all know you can’t.
Nobody is stopping them from exercising that right against any NATO country. What about Poland? They have been a historical nuisance, Dimi. Just shoot a rocket at a farm somewhere, but make it intentional this time.
A house cat has the right to attack a lion as well…
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I wonder… does medvedev have enough wits left to understand that if Russia has that right… then everyone … has that right?
They’re finding Ukraine difficult enough. Sure we’re sharing some toys (a lot of toys)… but they don’t have carriers or attack subs or missile destroyers…
Threatening nato is not a sane decision to make. We might just take them at their word.
The toys we’re sharing are our older toys from the 80s and 90s even. Its not even the more deadly stuff we have…and they’re fighting against a force that’s getting a few weeks training on these toys and sent out into the field. If russia truly wants a 72 hour war…all it would need to do is attack NATO.
Yeah, Ukraine is excited about maybe getting some F-16s and how much that could help with the air war and meanwhile a couple of F-22s could take down a whole squadron of them.
Is the F-22 that much more capable?
What about the F-35? Did its issues ever get resolved?
Is the F-22 that much more capable?
Yes, it is.
The most successful jet fighter of the modern era is the F15 with a combat record of 104-0.
In combat against F15s, the F22 is 41-1.
There’s also the option that it’s going to be a 30-ish minute war. 50-ish if the other side manages to get their counter value force airborne.
72? Pretty generous. I’m pretty sure we have more HARM missiles than they do S400 SAM batteries.
It’s not the war, it’s the keeping.
In any case, we’d probably bog down around the same time China and everyone else on that side got involved. I don’t think it would be as clean or as quick. But, yeah. We could definitely screw them pretty harshly without ever landing troops
China and Russia have no military alliance, Xi is just taking advantage of the fantastic business opportunity that opened up for him for cheap Russian imports. If Chinese troops became militarily involved in Russian territory, it would probably be to acquire their claims over eastern Siberia, dating back to the Qing Dynasty. Otherwise he’s just be supporting a state that competes with him for the dominant regional position.
The Tsar took that land from them, back in the day though. If you look at their current claimed territories, they never forgot. Maybe if Russia agreed to become a subject state of China, then they’d help militarily, but they’re certainly not friends or allies.
Russia does have actual allies, but not many. And China isn’t one of them.
So what you’re saying is we could Jalta Russia at the Urals with the Chinese and set up Cold War 2 on a really big scale?
There isn’t anyone really on that side . China and NATO have differences, but China doesn’t have anything to gain from helping Russia, and nthey lose a lot is NATO loses. They will sit out. Similar with India, they will stay out . Iran or a few other small counties might consider joining, but I doubt it as most are smart enough to know that is suicide.
Idk, China might see the spread of resources as a good opportunity to try an invasion of Taiwan.
Putin made his move because Xi sounded like he was going to go at the same time.
Xi was closing on HK and planned to switch immediately to Taiwan, even started the domestic pivot, then his navy told him they needed at least 5 years (honestly its more like 15, they are just starting carrier flight ops on the Liaoning and their newer ones aren’t shaken down yet).
Putin had made his preparations, Xi hinted he might go anyway once the west was distracted.
If daddy z hadn’t stayed in kyiv history would look really bad right now.
Maybe, Xi seems just sane enough not to try, but who knows. China and Russia can’t really win against NATO though they make things harder. India likely hates China enough to join NATO as well.
Of course we are talking nuclear armed countries so everyone loses is possible.
We don’t need to occupy Russia to stop them from continuing a war that they start. We can just destroy their equipment and manufacturing locations so their armed forces surrender.
I was just gonna say, destroy the vodka and cigarettes.
That falls under equipment!
Or the big guns. If they start attacking the nuclear powers, things are going to get very spicy very quickly.
He is a puppet. It’s hard to think with Putins hand so far up your ass.
America is not giving Ukraine the most advanced weapons and that is stopping Russia.
Imagine if America used their pre advanced weapons.
It’s posturing. Russia wants to look tough. They’re a paper tiger.
And at full scale. This is definitely typical Russian posturing, ie total bullshit that everyone knows is bullshit but they say it anyway.
Total posturing. A few hundred of these would end the war overnight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM
These aren’t even classified. Poland and Finland have them, today.
Ukraine is keeping Russia in check with cardboard launched grenades. It’s pretty amazing, honestly; both how innovative Ukraine has been under duress with almost nothing, and how bad Russia has performed in this mess they’ve dumped themselves in.
A few too many toes over NATO lines would decapitate the Kremlin, probably before anything could be done in response.
I have been highly impressed with the Ukrainian spirit and ingenuity.
I have also been surprised at what a cluster fuck Russia has been on the battlefield. I expected them to perform better than they did. It shows how much they have declined from being a super power.
The only issue I have is Russia has nukes and Putin is dumb enough to use them.
That stealth missle I linked, there’s a CHAMP payload designed for it that fries any electronics…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electronics_High_Power_Microwave_Advanced_Missile_Project
Launchers, guidance systems, communications, all of it. Should be able to be handled, if any of it even works anymore.
I just don’t understand why the americans can’t decide their stance while sitting on these wonderful advanced weapons. Either give Ukraine enough equipment to win or tell them to get lost and give up territory in exchange for peace. One risks escalation with Russia or if things go too well collapse of russia, the other risks discrediting the rules based international order (lmao).
But the status quo with delayed/half assed aid shipments is costing thousands of Ukrainian (and Russian, but who cares lol) soldiers’ lives for pretty dam questionable outcomes.
“Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?” - Mr. Blonde.
“Mister Krushchev said, “We will bury you” I don’t subscribe to this point of view It’d be such an ignorant thing to do If the Russians love their children too”
-Sting
Michael Madsen is awesome as Mr Blonde. Such a fucking psycho.
Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side. We will bury you
Because we all know the Soviet Union and Russia are exactly the same thing and the Russian military is definitely as powerful and as capable as the Soviet Union, no doubt. Please pay no attention to the complete lack of victory in Ukraine.
When has either the Soviet Union or Russia “won” anything in the last 150 years?
Their “win” in WWII was throwing as many bodies as possible and starving their own cities to delay the Germans long enough for winter to set in.
Soviet casualties were 4.5x higher than Axis casualties in operation Barbarossa. They lost 21k aircraft to 2800 for the Germans. 20k tanks destroyed vs 2700 for the Germans. And 4.5 million casualties compared to 1 million for the Germans.
I wouldn’t call that “burying” anyone. The biggest effect it had was weakening the Germans enough for the Allies to finish the job on the Western Front and bail the Soviets out.
The Soviets lost in Afghanistan in the 80s because of the US funding the Mujahideen.
Their biggest victory in the last century was taking Crimea because nobody else stepped up to help Ukraine like we are now.
Russia has nukes. That’s it. Beyond that they’re worthless militarily.
Hey, now. If not the capabilities of the soviets, at least they’re still using the same tech.
Russia doesn’t need a victory, it needs a long running war. Because this war is bringing Russia shitloads of money.
Ah yes it’s making Russia so much money which is why their economy is in perfect condition and the ruble is worth more than ever!
Ruble worth is irrelevant, especially since they don’t neeed to buy stuff from EU and US anymore. But Russian economy is in a healthy state.
What sources do you have to back that up?
Russian trolls, I’m sure
IMF are Russian trolls?
IMF says Russian economy will grow by 1.5% in 2023 - https://www.imf.org/en/Countries/RUS
For comparison, their projection for UK is 0.4%, US 1.8%, and Germany should drop by 0.3%. Yeah, sorry, Russia is doing fine.
Is it a good enough source for you? Do you need more sources? I can give more.
1.5% of zero is still zero. It’s like you practice being this stupid.
Wishful thinking. Well, enjoy being dumb.
US GDP: $76339 per capita. x1.8% = 1374.102
UK GDP $45850 per capita x 0.4% = 183.4
RUS GDP $15607 per capita x 1.5% = 234.11RU can expect growth, but their GDP is still shit. 1.5% growth puts the UK economy at just under 3x the Russian one. I know which currency I’d trust more and where (all other things being equal, which they’re not) I’d invest.
It’s not about your investment. The reality is that the war doesn’t have any negative impact on Russia at the moment. And if the oil war will continue to progress the way it goes right now, the Russian economy will only get better.
We need to think about other measures if we want to help Ukraine, because sanctions don’t do shit.
So, what. Their official currency is the Yuan now?
I think they’re at least partially right, Russia’s strategy appears to be throw as many men at the problem to keep the front line stalemate going in the hopes the Western donations eventually dry up, then throw even more men at Ukraine until they can win. An obvious pyrrhic victory to most, but when did hundreds of thousands of deaths and a decimated economy ever trump expansionism for Putin and his cronies?
Is that why they now talk about war with NATO? So they get even richer?
No, they just talk bullshit to score points with Russian sheeple. But that doesn’t mean Putin’s regime needs a victory.
I thought they didn’t want a victory. More war, more profits!
They don’t want a victory indeed. As I said already.
So the Kyiv offensive was a feint after all. Genius!
Right? What a bold strategy, getting your ass kicked by a much smaller nation and becoming a laughing stock.
It definitely was their plan all along and definitely aren’t trying to change the narrative.
Lol
Lol what?
Joke is on you tankie
At the fact that you’re either a Russian troll or an idiot that fell for a Russian troll.
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I’d like to see you do that, mr. Medvedev.
War has fuck-all to do with rights. If you’re going to attack a NATO country we will beat your ass back into the stone age without mercy, your nukes won’t save you if you dare cross that line.
Just claiming you have the right doesn’t mean you actually have the right. Ask January 6 trumpers for more information on that subject.
On another point: just because you can doesn’t mean you should. You can kick a Lion in the balls but that doesn’t make it a great idea.
Then again, I’m sure Russia’s leadership knows this and right now is just posing like an 8th grader bragging about his uncle being a navy seal because holy shit, Russia is fuuuuuuucked.
For the next decades it will be busy pulling itself together, trying to rebuild an international economy that doesn’t rely 100% on unsustainable practices of just selling all it’s minerals, getting rid of the reputation that Putin gave it, trying to rebuild a military that isn’t the laughing stock of the world… And all that is assuming that the country doesn’t fall apart, doesn’t dove into civil war and that say, china doesn’t decide it likes the taste ofmsome of the pieces that are left.
Russia is fubar, and right now Ukraine is the victim, butt within this decade, the innocent Russian citizens will be the victims of it all
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You have the right to guzzle bleach if you choose also… just sayin’.
