The homeowner who fatally shot a 20-year-old University of South Carolina student who tried to enter the wrong home on the street he lived on Saturday morning will not face charges because the incident was deemed “a justifiable homicide” under state law, Columbia police announced Wednesday.
Police said the identity of the homeowner who fired the gunshot that killed Nicholas Donofrio shortly before 2 a.m. Saturday will not be released because the police department and the Fifth Circuit Solicitor’s Office determined his actions were justified under the state’s controversial “castle doctrine” law, which holds that people can act in self-defense towards “intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others.”
No wonder Americans are so infatuated with the second amendment!
Goddamn, the United States really is a shithole country, isn’t it? It’s obvious that shooting was the homeowner’s first resort, because this was a drunk guy who thought that it was his own house. Any sign that it was not, like lights going on, or yelling, would have at least made him pause in confusion.
But yeah, Americans be like killing somebody before even issuing a threat is totally justified.
for all the non-Americans, here are the things you don’t understand about why we say it was justified.
Mental illness is rampant here. The high productivity expectations have a serious toll on people. There aren’t enough doctors to be even close to handle the scope of it. Many doctors offices are getting bought up by large companies who can and do pick the most lucrative clients.
Our justice system releases mentally ill people who are clearly dangerous because they haven’t committed a big enough crime YET.
And people don’t look out for one another much anymore. Combined with a misguided sense of independence, drunks are left to do things that friends in other countries would put a stop to.
This is why we fear random people, this is why drunk people manage to get into circumstances uncommon elsewhere. This is why we say the shooting was justified. We all think about how badly it could have gone if he didn’t shoot, and it wasn’t just a drunk guy at the wrong house.
Donofrio repeatedly knocked, banged and kicked on the front door “while manipulating the door handle” while trying to enter the home.
Donofrio broke a glass window on the front door “and reached inside to manipulate the doorknob”
Yeah, that’s more than just trying to walk into the wrong house when you’re blackout drunk, so I can see why they would consider it justified. But that’s the word of the police, so we’ll see if a different story comes out later.
It doesn’t say if the people in the home ever told him to stop. Did he know there were people in there? If he did, why did he break the window?
He thought he was locked out of his home I’m sure.
Ouch. Yep, that’s justifiable homicide
Not in my state. No deadly threat, no clear intent to commit a felony. Breaking in is not enough for precisely this reason: the person entering may have a mistaken claim of right.
Okay, well, it’s justifiable homicide in South Carolina
Breaking and entering isn’t a felony in your state???, huh…
Only if done with criminal intent. You know, you’re allowed to break into your own house.
If you think it’s your house and it’s not, your mistaken claim of right negates the intent. You might assume your lock broke or something and your only intent is to get inside and take your drunk ass to sleep.
This is scenario where you wake up and find a trespasser asleep on your couch, you can’t just murder them, even if you can see evidence that they broke the window to get in.
There is no duty to retreat in the home, but deadly force is still only authorized to counter deadly force.
In places authorizing deadly force to repel a felonious entry, the intent to commit crimes once inside supplies the justification for force. You cannot know the intention from the mere fact that they are breaking in. That’s why you can’t blindly fire through the door at someone trying to break your door in.
If the person ignores commands to stop, ignores warnings, threatens you, says something like “this is a robbery,” or has a weapon, that’s a different story; there, it’s reasonable to infer their criminal intent.
What if this guy throws an empty beer bottle through the window and it strikes an occupant or uses the wood splitting axe on the front lawn to smash the door frame? Does the nature of the entry matter at all? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to understand. I had a similar conversation down this line of thought with a friend who is a cop in a state without castle. I left that conversation somewhat bewildered by how much an intruder can get away with in proximity to my person before I am legally able to use or even brandish a weapon on them.
Beer bottle, no. No deadly threat. Person is still outside.
If they have an axe in their hand they have a weapon, you can infer their intent to do crimes once inside. No question as to reasonableness of fear for safety. I’d still warn a bunch of times and command them to stop, and I’d only shoot if it was clear they were coming inside.
The thing to remember is that it’s all evaluated from the standpoint of self defense of your person, not property. Deadly force is never authorized to protect mere property.
I guess where I have the hardest part with this is around the “infer” — I personally feel it’s a bit too much to ask an occupant to attempt to read an unfolding situation clearly, accurately, and quickly enough when things are going down in real-time. “Someone is forcing entry into my dwelling, but do they intend to harm me or simply watch Netflix with me?”
I guess I just disagree with the law, but then again my mind always goes to the most unsettling scenarios and probably not those that are statistically most likely. For instance, when you wrote elsewhere about waking up and finding an intruder in your home asleep on your couch, my mind immediately went to: “Ok, but what if I wake up and find an intruder fully alert, not touching anything, but standing in the doorway of my daughter’s bedroom and staring at her as she sleeps?” The amount of time and the element of surprise that I would lose to correctly deduce this person’s intentions (assuming they wouldn’t try to deceive me, which is a whole ‘nother rabbit hole) could mean the difference between life and death/injury, given how easy and quick it is to kill someone with a concealed weapon. And though I suppose the same could be said of anywhere outside my home, too, I have to believe that I am statistically in more danger from someone who has forced entry into my home than someone just passing by me at the supermarket.
By the way, I fully recognize that what you’re saying is the correct interpretation of the law and tracks with what my LEO friend told me. I just don’t like, haha!
Cheers!
What you’re saying flies in the face of mens rea. The person who’s state of mind is examined here is the homeowner. If they perceive their life is in danger they’re allowed to use force. In your state there may be a duty to retreat but even there there are exigent circumstances.
Good luck convincing a jury this guy knew the person who had just smashed his window and was trying to unlock the door from the outside wasn’t quite literally breaking and entering.
Nope. I’ve stated the rule correctly. Again, breaking and entering without more is insufficient justification for deadly force. Castle doctrine is inapplicable to mere breaking and entering. There has be something else, warnings or commands to stop that get ignored, something.
In my examples the homeowner has no basis to conclude that there is any threat.
The test is both subjective and objective. Otherwise, insane people could murder anyone that knocked on their door and claim they were in fear for their life.
By the way, there is no jury instruction on self-defense unless there’s an offer of proof that the homeowner knew of facts upon which a reasonable person could conclude that deadly force was authorized. Someone breaking your window, without more, is not a threat of deadly force against you, even if you are incredibly fragile and emotional.
Obviously you’re wrong about castle doctrine because this guy isn’t being charged.
Yikes. This is terrifying.
I feel bad for the owner who had to make a split second decision on what to do.
Because not much difference between rowdy drunk kid and a mentally deranged person. And making the wrong choice could mean your whole family is in danger.
20 years old is an grown man, not a kid.
Hard to imagine I’d not do the same thing if that happened to my house with my family home.
Would you have possibly tried, I dunno, yelling first? Seems like if you’re already armed there wouldn’t be much danger in say “WHAT THE FUCK ARE DOING?”. It says nowhere in this story they actually tried stopping him, just that they phoned the cops, window broke, they shot him.
That’s what I’m thinking. Call the police first?! That’s a normal response. Not reach for a gun and shoot the person to death. And the student didn’t get inside. I thought an intruder who could be killed was someone who made it inside. So anyone outside the door is fair game, even if they’re knocking and banging?
A female resident called 911 as Donofrio kicked the door, while a male resident went to retrieve a firearm elsewhere in the home
They literally did that.
Donofrio broke a glass window on the front door “and reached inside to manipulate the doorknob,” at which point the male resident fired the shot through the broken window
Breaking a window and then attempting to open the door is enough to justify killing in self defense under local laws, even if the intruder has not entered the building yet.
The article is specifically written to have a headline that implies someone got away with murder, to get traffic. The point of articles like this is to profit, not to inform.
Man shot while breaking and entering, is a much less profitable headline.
What makes you think they didn’t do that? Why is your default assumption that they just started firing?
Maybe the part where I read the article and it says nothing about an attempt to confront before shooting?
Ah yes, police are known to release all information immediately and also news articles are absolutely known to do the same. Thanks for reminding me!
You’re taking the worst possible interpretation and running with it. I recommend not doing that
It also doesn’t say if they didn’t. We have no reason to believe that they didn’t yell at him.
But yeah, if someone pounds on my door at 2am, then tries to force the door open, then smashes my window to try and unlock the door, I’m not waiting til they get inside to see if they are peaceful.
Not risking my life or the lives of my wife and kids on wishful thinking. It’s a tragedy that the guy lost his life, it really is. But he didn’t exactly leave a lot of wiggle room for the homeowners in the house he was invading.
So what you’re saying is literally you have a gun drawn down, you are ready to fire, and you still do not attempt yelling first?
Or ya know, shooting at leg-level? Shooting the hand that was trying to manipulate the door knob?
Did I say that?
Or did you say that?
When I was in college I had this happen multiple times. In different apartments but they all looked similar.
Even had one dude peeing on the floor in my bathroom because I roommate was next door and didn’t lock the door. Dude was in the right apartment number, just off one building.
Even had a couple get aggressive and try to fight me.
Still, never shot anyone over it (and I was and am a gun owner. )
Don’t you think it might’ve been different if it was your own home (instead of a rented dorm/apartment), and instead of roommates you had a wife and possibly other family members in the home?
This is true, and nuance is key.
But at the same time, at least in my college town, the houses on and around campus, certainly within 2 miles, were generally
-
Quite often used as rentals for college kids, VERY few families actually lived there, in fact i never remember seeing families in them.
-
Working class adults were more or less segregated further off campus, largely due to the riffraff.
So yes, it would be a bit different now as I do not live near a college campus. But if i did, and it was often that there were drunk college kids, the witching out after the bars let out would usually be times when ruckus was occuring. So situationally, i would be much less likely to use a gun in a case like that. I would likely have it on me while I assessed the situation but much less likely to use it.
Thats just me though. And FWIW i did live in houses off campus in my later years, and much of the same bullshit would occur. Maybe it was just a different time. I was not much of a partier, and took some hard sciences so often I was leaving the library when the drunks let out. And some of the shit they would pull…Lets just say I would never live near other college kids again.
-
Before you get to the point of destroying your own property, you should have already double checked which unit you’re at, whether a family member has a spare key, or whether someone you know can let you stay the night so you can call a locksmith in the morning. It’s entirely reasonable for someone inside to think that it’s an attempted break-in, so even if the guy just made a really bad choice that ended in tragedy, I don’t blame the shooter for thinking it was a robbery, and not wanting to risk the supposed robber having a weapon. It’s not an easy choice to make in that situation.
We’ll only ever hear one side of this story because the other witness is dead.
No, they have physical evidence, audio evidence which probably means camera or video doorbell and the kid died on the front porch of someone else’s house. Seems like the story told itself. The simple explanation is he tried breaking into the wrong house thinking it was his own.
Not saying he deserved to die over his mistake, it’s tragic and sad that the situation occurred.
Editing to add this from the article:
“evidence gathered at the scene, review of surveillance video that captures moments before the shooting, audio evidence, and witness statements.”
What would the other side of the story be? That he was breaking into his own house, but that the gun was fired from someone that had already broken into his own house and was wrongfully residing there? The facts are pretty basic here.
You are reading as though it is undisputed facts. One reason it is undisputed is because the victim is dead. For one it would be nice to see how likely it was he actually broke glass or reached inside. Was it clear video from a camera at the door? Or some grainy footage from a neighbor across the street? It doesn’t say.
Kid accidentally enter wrong home this was Not Justified. Mother fuckers the law needs to be repealed and done over then.
Shooting someone just for entering or knocking on your door isn’t an excuse to shoot to kill someone. Should at least give person a warning.
I hope that homeowner never finds peace again and better be glad it wasn’t my kid.
Bro banged on the door and broke a window to try to get in. He was literally forcefully entering a locked house, he didn’t just wander into an unlocked door by mistake.
No telling what the kid was trying to do or would have done if he got in. Home owners have to assume the person trying to kick in the door and breaking a window is there to do harm. Justified self defense to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
By all accounts he thought he was entering his own home, thought he was breaking his own windows, etc. Seems to me like a little more dialog and this kid’s still alive and a broken window is the worst part of the event. With castle doctrine laws the way they are mistakes and misunderstandings are much more likely to become fatal.
Not being allowed to defend yourself until the intruder finishes breaking in to your home and attacks you simply means self-defense isn’t allowed, because at that point you’re probably already dead.
deleted by creator
Not by all accounts. Specifically not by the accounts of the people who were inside the home that was getting broken into at 2am.
In none of the accounts do they mention trying to speak with him before shooting. Just call 911 and wait with gun pointed towards door.
Which is what they did, until the intruder broke into the home through the window.
You have a source on that? I’ve yet to see a reference to them attempting to communicate with anyone but 911.
As many sources that you have that say they didn’t.
The homeowners were awake, and calling the cops. Sounds like the kid was drunk to the point he wasn’t engaging in conversation.
This wasn’t a kid knocking at the wrong door in the middile of the day.
This was a 2 AM and break in where the guy busted a window to get at the door handle. This is WAY MORE than just knocking or a misunderstanding. I would agree that mistakes or even simple burglary don’t deserve the death penalty, BUT… if he was aggressive enough to be smashing things in the middle of the night after banging on the door and windows, then what would he also be aggressive and mistaken about when he got inside? At a certain point being concerned for your own safety is legitmate and we crossed that line awhile ago.
Go read the article before you comment.
He didn’t just accidentally enter the wrong home, he was forcibly breaking into the home when he was shot. Even breaking a window to open the door from the inside.
Tragic as he was likely just intoxicated and confused, but understandable that the homeowner would use force to defend himself
While the woman was on the phone with police, Donofrio broke a glass window on the front door “and reached inside to manipulate the doorknob,” at which point the male resident fired the shot through the broken window that struck Donofrio in his upper body, according to police
Glad breaking and entering is now considered worth a death sentence.
Keep moving the goalposts!
This wasn’t a punishment or sentence.
He was literally breaking through the door to enter the house.
What was the home owner supposed to do? Hope he became non-violent once he got in? Challenge him to a game of chess? Declare a set of non-lethal rules and duke it out?
The homeowner has a right to not be attacked in his own home ffs
Idk. Maybe yell, “Hey. Fuck off” and call the police? If it is a drunk person, they probably embarrassingly realize it’s the wrong house. Or if they keep trying to get in after, then shoot?
Also the home owner wasn’t attacked. His window was.
You may want to read the article - they did call the police. Unfortunately it takes less time for someone to violently smash through a door than for the cops to arrive.
Interesting that you summize that they were apparently silent as this guy smashed their door
And, would you really play the odds that someone violently entering your house would suddenly have a moment of clarity when they entered? He was messed up enough to think shattering his own window was a viable option to get into his house.
But they never tried yelling at him, did they? Even after he had a firearm, the article says nothing about calling out with a warning first or anything. That seems insane to me.
It also doesn’t say they didn’t. Are we going to just list off a bunch of things the article doesn’t say?
Hey doofus did you even read the article? He was breaking into the home. Maybe read the fucking article before spouting bullshit, next time.
He mightve thought he was trying to enter his house. However breaking a window and reaching for the lock is a good way to get either shot or arrested for b&o even if he is drunk as a skunk.
You have to judge it from the perspective if the person living there. They hear someone banging on their door, trying to get into the house, breaking the window and forcing their way in. They had absolutely no reason to believe this was a simple misunderstanding, and every reason to believe their life was in danger.
Good - one less idiot walking the earth.
While the woman was on the phone with police, Donofrio broke a glass window on the front door “and reached inside to manipulate the doorknob,” at which point the male resident fired the shot through the broken window that struck Donofrio in his upper body, according to police.
He wasn’t “trying to enter” he was literally breaking into the home.
I would’ve let off more than one shot at that point.
Good - one less idiot walking the earth.
A college student gets drunk and makes a mistake, and you gleefully execute him for being an “idiot”. He doesn’t get a trial by a jury of his peers. He doesn’t get to explain his story. A frightened home-owner hopped up on adrenaline and his righteous belief he can blow away anyone who scares him just executes him on the spot. That’s a terrible system of justice.
Americans are nuts.
Makes a mistake? That’s one hell of a mistake, he was litterally breaking and entering. Just because he was drunk is he no longer responsible for his actions? He chose to go get shitfaced and then he went and tried to break into a home when the residents were home in a castle doctrine state. The only more reliable method of getting shot that I can think of is walking around the woods in a deer costume durring hunting season.
Also how about we stop victim blaming the home owner here. Yes it would have been better if the guy had lived. There’s no question there. But the residents did exactly what they should have with the information they had at their disposal. They called the cops first but, when the dude broke the window and it became aparent that the police would not get there in time, they did what they needed to do to protect themselves while minimizing the chance of them being harmed. Letting a clearly agitated and potentially armed assailant actually enter their home just on the off chance that assailant was actually friendly would have been beyond stupid. The homeowner not mag dumping on the guy actually shows far more restraint than we typically even see from our police.
So you wouldn’t have tried talking first? Like they didn’t either? Seems nuts to me
Spoken like someone who’s never feared for their life or more importantly, feared for their partner’s life.
alright, everyone take a standardized test, if you fail, you’re executed.
deleted by creator
I love how “self” defense extends to whatever people want it to mean. “Self” yeah, meaning they were on the planet I currently reside on.
No, it doesn’t mean “they were on the planet” it’s because in every way he broke into that home and you’re damn right YOU would have feared for your life in that situation. Don’t insult yourself by pretending otherwise.
In this case dude tried to kick the door in, then he broke a window, reached in and started trying to unlock the door. What would you have done?
deleted by creator
Guns are a lethal weapon, there are no safe places to shoot someone outside of a video game.
deleted by creator
I choose to be shot in the pinky toe then
Not fucking kill them, for sure. Dude, there’s other places of the body you could’ve shot at to make your point. Least of all, study the human body some to at least know where the parts that aren’t vital that you can shoot to, that’ll at least send the bastard to the hospital to be treated.
Spoken like only a person that’s never been in a possible life or death situation and that has undergone zero self defense or tactical training.
deleted by creator
Yup, lot of video game playing, “I would have done x instead”, captain hindsight people in here. You NEVER point a gun at something you don’t intend to kill.
What would you have done?
Not shot someone.
Bud you are full of shit.
I hate saying that because you have the marathon symbol and I love old school bungie with a passion, but if someone tries to kick your door down and break your window, if you are not scared for your life then you are just as drunk as he is.
At no point would I think “I should murder this guy.”
In fact I have had three break-ins, and I managed to not kill anyone each time.
Nor did I say you should murder the guy.
When you have someone unresponsive breaking into your house, you have no idea what their intentions are.
Do you think the homeowner said “I want to murder this guy”?
Get off it dude, you’re being a silly goose
Absolute bullshit and you know it!
That’s an easy position to take when the house he’s breaking into doesn’t contain your children.
Again, my first response is never going to be shooting someone, ever.
In Canada, where I live, that would be a crime.
Oh shit something very similar to this happened to my mom once. She’s an older woman who lives alone and terrified of everything. Yes, she owns a gun.
One night ~ 2-3 am a man knocked on her door and demanded to be let in. She’s terrified, grabs the gun. He moved around to different doors, knocking and banging and yelling to be let in. He started shaking the door handles. My mom called 911 and was hiding in a bathroom. They asked her to just wait, police were on the way.
Finally she goes out, sees the guy at a window, and pointed the gun at him…but the gun has a laser pointer when you squeeze the handle. So she screamed back that the red dot on his chest was about to be where she was going to shoot him.
He ran off. Police show up, say they found the kid - 20 - drunkenly stumbling around the neighborhood. The bar had just closed and he thought he was at his friend’s house. A week later he sent her a $20 gift card to a local restaurant with a note that said “Thank you for not shooting me.”
The cops said if she had shot him, she would have been legally within her rights.
Agree or disagree with any or all of this, I’m sorry for the family of the person who was killed. It’s just a terrible situation all around.
While the woman was on the phone with police, Donofrio broke a glass window on the front door “and reached inside to manipulate the doorknob,” at which point the male resident fired the shot through the broken window, striking Donofrio in his upper body, police said.
The headline made me instantly rage (as intended). Reading the article made me reconsider. The real answer is to not have guns in the hands of the public. But then only criminals will have guns. Stfu.
If the public wasn’t allowed to have guns and this guy did turn out to be a home invader, what would you say then?
I remember reading that statistically it isuch more likely that you kill a friend or family member with a gun than a home invader while trying to defend you’re home. Instead of worrying about hypothetical ‘what ifs’ that are very unlikely to happen maybe we should stay anchored in reality.
I’d introduce them to my baseball bat. Repeatedly. Then call the police.
I think I heard on the radio that the homeowner was an old man, so I doubt he’d be capable of using a baseball bat against a college athlete. But I can’t find an article that says anything about his age.
So, you don’t want to kill them with a gun, you’d rather get up close and personal and bludgeon their face until they’re unrecognizable? Baseball bats are a deadly threat too, go attack someone with one and watch how fast you get an AWDW charge.
I’d take being shot over being repeatedly bludgeoned with a baseball bat, personally.
Look at that 100%justified use. If only it legal to defend yourself where I live like this. That would be great.
Canada?
Did you just tell yourself to STFU?
deleted by creator
Any other developed country and there wouldnt be a death involved.
Going to call bullshit on that.
The drunk kid smashed a window and kicked the door repeatedly. This wasn’t a quiet kid accidentally wandering into a room.
This is the US mentality. Yeah, kid was very dumb, kid was in the wrong. Kid should probably be arrested and spend some time in jail to learn his lesson. Nope, death penalty.
Hard to shoot someone who’s made an honest mistake when you don’t have a gun…
Honest mistake ain’t busting in a window tho. I’ve locked myself out of my own house before and I’ve never went “I’ll just break a window to get in”
I’d be terrified if someone was trying to break into my house at 2am.
The ex did once. I came home and had to cover a basement window with plywood.
You hear stories about people with dementia doing this all the time. Guess they don’t deserve to live anymore either.
It’s also hard to shoot someone who hasn’t made an honest mistake and is actually breaking in specifically to do you harm, when you don’t have a gun…so your comment is total nonsense.
Maybe we should just stop shooting people all together.
If someone intends to harm me or immediately threaten my life, I’m shooting them. There is no moral or ethical argument you can make that will invalidate that. I consider the right of self-defense to be an inalienable right even if that requires lethal force.
Also hard to shoot somebody breaking in to your home with violent intentions when you don’t have a gun.
And the only way to find out what the intruder’s intentions are is to wait until it’s potentially too late to defend yourself.
I wouldn’t call breaking and entering into the completely wrong home at 2 am “an honest mistake…”
One of the presidents of the US did it regularly and he never got shot for it.
The kids only real crime was being too drunk to understand what was going on.
Which US president would break into people’s homes? Sorry, I am unaware here…
And no, he was breaking and entering too. Even if that was not his intention.
When you choose to get drunk, you’ve also agreed to accept the responsibility for your future drunken actions.
Just make dishonest mistakes and you’ll get voted as president.
I’m in a developing country and such things don’t happen here. Some months back an upstairs neighbour of mine tried to enter into my house when i was inside. He was trying his key and then rang the doorbell and i opened it and he was very confused. Then he looked at my house and realised he was on the wrong floor, said sorry and went away. These things happen if all the apartments look the same. No one needs to die for such small blunders. What’s more disturbing is the amount of people here justifying shooting the kid because he broke a window and was forcing his way inside. They don’t realise they wouldn’t have to fear other people so much if there were no guns available in the first place. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of replies that gangsters don’t obey rules and what not but isn’t that the same in every other country without guns? Maybe Americans like to kill people a lot. No wonder their entire country runs off war and destruction.
They don’t realise they wouldn’t have to fear other people so much if there were no guns available in the first place. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of replies that gangsters don’t obey rules and what not but isn’t that the same in every other country without guns?
Home invasions happen in countries that have strict gun laws. I’ve lived in a bad apartment complex (one apartment was a trap house, a neighbor was stabbed on his way home from work, several vehicles were stolen and mine was vandalized), and a neighbor tried to get into my apartment late one night. I didn’t own a gun at the time, but I absolutely would have stabbed him with a kitchen knife if he had broken a window and stuck his hand inside. Instead, I asked him if he was okay and explained that he was at the wrong apartment.
You don’t need a gun to kill someone, it’s creepy enougth to assume the intruder has ‘just’ a big knife
In this case, the person was literally breaking into the house, broken window, reaching for the doorknob. The homeowner had every reason to think their home was being invaded. And given how violent crime can get in the states, unfortunately shooting first in such a situation does make logical sense.
The situation sucks, but this case might be more on the system than the shooter.
That type of thing happens in the US as well. It doesn’t ALWAYS end with a gun. I’d say most of the time it doesn’t.
This person broke a window though and was actively forcing themselves into the home. That’s a pretty big difference from “trying a key and ringing the doorbell.”
It’s always going to be a judgement call, for a different intruder theirs would’ve been the right call. It’s not even about guns, there are knives, drugs, etc. They’re all relevant and the kinds of people that are breaking windows can be dangerous.
I forget all the details but a former neighbors son had an extremely traumatic experience when he was out with a trainee as a paramedic and a guy hopped up on some concoction of drugs incapacitated him (I think by throwing him against the wall) and then the dude spun around and beat the trainee’s skull in with some object.
Just because you haven’t heard of it… doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen in your country, but I hope you’re right. Idealistically you’re definitely right, this sort of thing never should happen, but sometimes there’s no good answer; you just do the best you can with the information and situation you’re in.
Genuinely curious if you had someone smashing your window and trying to enter your house forcefully what your response would be.
I’d leave.
Well where I live there aren’t nearly as many guns so the person breaking in would be less likely to have a deadly weapon and it would be a bit less risky to just call the police and hide, or comply with the (assumed) robber, or I’d feel like I’d have a better chance with using a blunt weapon like a bat to protect myself and drive them off, which would be less likely to kill someone. But where I live there are also a lot less robberies in general.
Doesn’t guarantee nobody would have died if the same thing happened in a place with less gun violence, but it might have reduced the chances. Even if people get into the same kinds of confrontations, if there aren’t guns involved the chances of everyone surviving a violent encounter goes up by a significant percentage. Less guns in a country over-all means less chances for a conflict to have a gun involved.
I mean if I take a swing at someone’s head with a baseball bat I’m probably just as likely to kill as I would be by shooting them. I will say baseball bat to the head probably hits less since it would probably render you unconscious immediately.
I mean if I take a swing at someone’s head with a baseball bat I’m probably just as likely to kill as I would be by shooting them.
You’d be surprised. While one hit can kill, concussion/brain injury without death is generally more common from a single hit. Usually it takes multiple hits to guarantee killing someone, and it’s harder to aim if you’re not like, a baseball player, than most people expect. You’re more likely to get a glancing blow, even assuming you catch the other person by surprise. The type of bat can make a difference in how likely it is to kill from a first hit as well.
Yeah I guess that’s all true. Either way I personally would prefer a gun to a baseball bat for self defense for the simple fact that it puts me in less danger than attacking my attacker with a melee weapon. There admittedly isn’t much in my house that is worth my life but apparently the person breaking in values my things more than their own life.
probably depends on if guns are involved or not.
This is such an annoying answer. I’ve had a strange man enter my home unannounced. I remember standing just behind a wall with intent to stab him with the knife I had because if someone breaks into your house you don’t assume a good time. Even without guns strangers are dangerous. That maintenance guy was seriously lucky I happen to recognize him in that split sec and stopped before stabbing him in the chest.
I’m American and I’ve never worried about guns. They aren’t as common as people think in a lot of areas. Mostly we have a few yahoo’s with a shitton of guns and most people with zero. I’ve still been in several situations where I felt unsafe without guns even being a consideration. If this dude was doing all that at my house, I’d call the police and then wait with a knife like I did with that stupid maintenance guy I almost stabbed who should have known better.
this uh…this story just kind of reinforces how bad of an idea guns are, cus you would have killed a guy who also wasnt trying to kill you.
Depending on the gun they maybe wouldn’t have killded him, even if they hit them. Also if you are already jumping at someone with a knife, it’s not that much easier to stop than a gunshot.
Stab wounds are far less deadly, and far more treatable compared to gunshot wounds.
You’re right, and there are lots of studies backing this up. Even if you compare similar wounds like neck wounds from stabbing vs getting shot, and getting stabbed in the heart vs being shot in the heart. Stab wound victims are much more likely to survive than gunshot wound victims.
deleted by creator
Yes it is. Take a look at gun homicides vs knife. Guns are more deadly and we have the deaths to prove it.
deleted by creator
To be fair, here’s the thing. If you replace a gun with a knife, while that doesn’t erase the chance of death by any means, it does lower the chance of death significantly. Because despite what a lot of people might think, in a fight, you’re a lot more likely to survive if your attacker has a knife than you would if your attacker has a gun. If you hadn’t recognized your maintenance guy right away and attacked him, then he’d still be better off with you wielding a knife than if you’d been wielding a gun instead.
And in a country with less guns, both you and a potential robber are less likely to have guns. Maybe you would use a knife, but clearly not everyone would, and saying “there’s not as many as you’d think in a lot of areas areas” is all fine and well, but the statistics show that the US has an absolutely mind boggling amount of guns per capita compared to any other country. The US literally has more guns than people. In other countries, it’s not just in some areas where guns are less common, it’s every area, and most have less than even the areas in US’s that have less guns. Countries that are literally at war have less guns per capita than the US does.
Obviously that doesn’t mean you’ll never be in danger without any guns around, but you will generally be in less danger over-all, and even when you do get into danger you will still be less likely to die.
Gunshots are actually less deadly than knife wounds btw.
Can you support that statement…?
Lot more likely to shoot somebody before you have a chance to stop vs stabbing them.
That’s not true, gunshot wounds actually have a significantly lower survival rate than stab wounds. I can provide some studies on the topic if you’re interested.
Source?
People don’t just drop when they get stabbed and a stronger person can pretty easily take a knife from a weaker one. If you’re trying to defend yourself from a real attacker with a knife you’re probably going to have a bad time.
That maintenance guy is an idiot. I worked maintenance for years and you never enter someone’s home without ringing or knocking and waiting for a reply (even if they say the home will be empty). When you do unlock the door you open it slowly while calling out, “Hello! Maintnance!” I’d say 30% of the time someoine was there when I was assured the property would be empty. Kid skipping school, home sick and forgot our appoinment, etc.
You are correct. That’s why I didn’t assume maintenence guy, but instead rapist.
How did they enter your home? Did he have a key? Had you called for maintenance?
He’s definitely an idiot.
Nope. He had a key, I guess he used it? IDK I just heard my fucking door open. He was there to fix something or other that was causing issues with the apartment below Mr. It was like 2PM which I guess is why he didn’t announce himself, but yeah he almost died.
Mostly we have a few yahoo’s with a shitton of guns and most people with zero.
How do you know that? Are there actually stats on that? I’m a left-leaning gun owner, and I’m careful to avoid talking about guns around most people to avoid unnecessary conflict. The people who make it their entire personality are a very vocal minority.
Because I’ve lived in shitty areas with actual drug dealers and BS like that. Less people have guns than you might imagine. Maybe it’s different in nowhere USA, but in urban shithole, USA and Middle class suburbia that’s about what I’ve found. People have like 3+ guns or none at all. I guess it’s possible all my friends are just hiding this from me for some reason and in my hometown I just happen to know all the people who shoot guns, but honestly it’s been rare that I’ve seen people with just one gun. It’s not that I’ve never seen it. My cousin’s husband owns exactly one gun.
I don’t think there’s any way to get stats, but I think that the US has more guns than people lends some credibility to this idea.
So it’s all anecdotal, and based on what people tell you? Like I said, gun nuts are a very vocal minority.
And I’ve lived in a slum too. An apartment in the building I lived in was basically a trap house, a neighbor was stabbed on his way home from work, my gf’s vehicle was stolen, my vehicle was vandalized, and someone tried to enter my apartment because he was drunk and confused. And after all of that, I still have no idea how many of my neighbors had guns because most sensible gun owners don’t advertise the fact.
::gasp:: Actual drug dealers??
Phone the police and tell him to fuck off? Maybe hit their arm with a bat or something. If I was alone I could even just leave. Not immediately execute them.
Sir this is a reddit clone we have a blind hatred of the police here please choose another option.
You spelled justifiable wrong.
I dont have any guns so probly hiding and calling cops. But also I dont live in any other developed country, Im not blaming the homeowner for fearing for his life in the country with more guns than people. If we were somewhere else, not only would the homeowner not have a gun, anyone trying to break in would be much less likely to have one.
People are so damned anxious to use their damned guns
They are. The amount of people who confidently say they’d shoot before attempting to communicate has me terrified; like they want a reason to escalate the situation.
Yeah, the states has the same accidents as anywhere else in the world, but they sprinkle a little gun into the mix.
If someone is breaking into your home, you should defend yourself and your family with whatever means is available. The amount of people here saying you should have a polite conversation or comply with the robber’s demands (even if that demand is to harm you) is bizarre.
No one was actually breaking into their home though. Literally nothing would have happened to that home owner if he had been less trigger-happy and tried to comminucate with the kid.That is completely incorrect and shows you didn’t read the article. The guy physically was breaking the door open.
No one was actually breaking into their home though.
He very LITERALLY broke into his home. Are you delusional?
The problem is you can’t judge people’s actions on what we know after the fact, you have to look at what the person knew in the moment, and for the residents, it sure seemed like someone was breaking into their house, and it’s not reasonable to expect to have a dialogue with a burglar.
But he literally broke a window and reached around to open the door from the inside. After trying to kick the door in.
It’s a tragedy, but the homeowner was 100% justified.
He broke the glass and tried to open the door from the inside. If I were inside that house, I’d certainly feel threatened.
Donofrio repeatedly knocked, banged and kicked on the front door “while manipulating the door handle” while trying to enter the home.
Donofrio broke a glass window on the front door “and reached inside to manipulate the doorknob”
Its not bizarre. Its called reasonable force
So, defending yourself is only valid once you’re actually in the process of being killed? A bit too late at that point. Someone physically breaking into your home is a valid reason to use force in response.
A bit too late at the imaginary non event in your head?
But the definition of threat is what you described. It is a threat against your life which this was not and its why this is tragic because failing to assess caused an unnecessary death.
So, again, someone physically breaking open your door, who has unknown weapons themselves including a potential gun, should be something you do nothing about? Just let them in and hope they don’t mean to kill you?
that’s what you’re saying not me. Use my words, not yours
I can see both sides to this, and bottom line it is tragic. And I worry about stupid drunk college kids making this kind of fatal mistake. Terrible.
deleted by creator
I don’t think I could ever get drunk enough to break a fucking window, that’s insane. I don’t understand people’s excuses for degenerate criminal behavior while drunk, I’d pass the fuck out before I got to this point.
Eh, I could see someone getting drunk enough to get into the headspace to do that. You’re drunk, you’re at what you think is your house, but you can’t get your key to open the door, so you just decide to break a window and deal with the fallout in the morning.
I’ve been that drunk. I didn’t manage to kill myself or induce anyone else to kill me, but it’s really just sheer good fortune that it worked out that way.
Well, I guess South Carolina is going on my list of places that are too dangerous to ever visit.
Probably a good idea if you tend to drunkenly break into homes in the middle of the night
I don’t, but I also don’t want people to think they can just shoot me with no repercussions.
No one does. There’s some relevant context here that you seem to be ignoring.
I don’t think it’s nearly as relevant as you seem to think it is.
You’re missing punctuation after the word think.
So clever.
usa_anthem_kazoo_earrape.mp3playing in the background. This shit is abnormal in the rest of the world.
