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CEOs and high ranking business people, what they get to do is not work or work significantly less than a working class people therefore I have no respect for most of em
Small business owner here. Just to add to the other responses about the stress and responsibility as you move up that others mentioned here… I cover every one of my employees when they take vacation or sick leave. So I am often doing my job, plus another person’s. It’s not uncommon for me to work 12 hour days without breaks.
I am not reffering to small business owners, but big corporate executives
I don’t think OP was referring to small businesses (< 50 employees), but more like 1000+ employees.
The higher up you go the less work you do and the more stress you take on. You’re essentially trading your peace of mind for more money.
When you work a simple manual labor job you clock in and clock out and then go home and live your life. Work stays at the office.
When you’re an executive or a business owner you’re working 100% of the time. Something happens, you need to respond. Sometimes you need to make hard decisions where you’re fucked either way but you need to minimize damage.
You need to find solutions to problems and that keeps you up at night. Don’t have enough money for payroll next week? How you gonna do it? Not pay vendors this week? Take out another line of credit at ridiculous rates? Skip a payment on your rent? Equipment financing?
You have to do something- you stop paying your employees and the company falls apart very quickly. Could start a chain reaction of good people leaving, making the situation worse. The buck pretty much stops with you, you can’t pass off the problem to someone else.
It’s not easy to be in charge. Lot of blame rests on your shoulders if things go wrong.
Of course that doesn’t mean they deserve 10,000x the salary of a regular job. I think CEO pay should be capped to some multiple of regular employee pay. Whatever that scalar value should be 2, 5, or 10 I think is debatable. But it should be capped.
Moving from being a Product Owner, working on my own projects, to being a Product Manager who works with Product Owners on their projects/hands over projects to them, it is far more stressful. I end up being on the hook for everything, with an expectation that I know everything about a dozen projects, despite being far less actively involved in the underlying work of any of them.
Am an executive… agree with you on all fronts
“Running a business is hard work, you wouldn’t believe the number of meetings-”
Oh yeah meetings where you and “experts” on maximizing profits talk about how many people you can get away with laying off this quarter and other meetings where you work out a deal to buy a competitor startup in order to immediately and intentionally run it into the fucking ground sounds really fucking essential to the world Allan
No one has said police yet?
that’s not a job, some people are just Assigned Cop At Birth
Honestly in my line of work I seriously considered Police, but when I noticed it’s essentially a cult I noped out of there
the problem with police is that
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the people who should work as a police officer don’t want to be a police officer
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the people that shouldn’t work as a police want to be a police officer
I don’t think police is inherently a bad thing. It just happens to be because people who want power over others should not have power over others.
similar story with politicians. I’d prefer an honest politician. but the process of picking them selects for those who are dishonest.
Exactly, couldn’t have worded it better. Obviously not all of them all of the time, but it is what it is
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They don’t take it seriously enough. They go play army man.
I was thinking more that the general population takes them too seriously.
I disagree. They have the ability to kill people with little repurcussion
And yet people thank them for their “service” and put “thin blue line” flags in their yards. That is the kind of “too seriously” I am referring to.
That’s just cause those people buy into the delusion the cops have.
But I agree with your overall point
Playing army would mean keeping their cool in hostile territory.
Actually it means raping brutalizing and killing civilians in territory where you are not welcome
YOU know that. They don’t seem to.
Field technicians.
Programming. People treat it like a career, but fact is that unless your really good at it, your not going to make any money from it. I’ve found programming to be far more like art than work anyway.
Professional software developer here. It’s definitely a career. I do agree it’s like art, it requires you to fit stuff together like a puzzle to get it to work. But I don’t think that makes it less of a “serious” career - there’s a lot of money in the field and as the world gets more and more invested in computing it’s become a very in-demand skill.
Skilled work often is an art.
That’s why I switched sides. From programming myself to developing functions and writing requirements which someone else can implement into code. :)
I could do some programming (did embedded C), but surely I wasn’t the very best in it. So now I’m the guy who defines what a small (but essential) part of SW has to do which will run in hopefully a few million cars in a couple of years. :) Much more fun (and money).
What’s your job called? I’m nowhere near your field, and am curious about y’alls org charts.
Business analyst I guess.
Not sure where you’re from, but here in the states, if you have a basic ability to code from a bootcamp or even self taught with a portfollio, you’ll pretty easily get hired making anywhere from 45-55k a year. And after about 2-4 years, you’ll pretty easily be making 70-90k sometimes more depending on where you live.
You can still use programming to leverage your current position.
If you work admin in an office and are able to automate a bunch of workflows with some simple scripts, you’ll have more leverage when salary raises start to get discussed.
Will your code be at the level a professional programmer would produce? Probably not, but you’re not competing with one.
Even better if you keep schtoom about it and automate your work from home job allowing you to just chill for most of the day.
Upvoted for use of British English word “schtoom,” a Yiddish loan word. I always thought Yiddish loan words were an American thing, thanks for the learning opportunity.
Hell the ability to write a basic sql SELECT statement alone opens a lot of doors.
proceeds to learn sql
By the way, SQL, sequel, or squeal?
(personally, I use sequel)
Maybe I’m biased since I recently started working as a software dev, but you don’t need to be really good to get a job as a programmer. I’m evidence of that.
Reading this, I’m not able to interpret what emotion applies here.
Sorry I typed this in a hurry. I just disagree with the statement and tried making a joke.
I got the joke, my response was in extension to it :)
Edit: How do I upload a gif without it turning into a giant webm player view? I had to hot link that to get it to not be annoyingly huge.
Or any job. You underestimate how much any job is just being decent enough rather than amazing all of the time.
Yes I am fully aware of that. My point was that programming is just like any other job unlike what the guy I responded to seems to think.
Depends where you live, and what the job market is like. The demand for programmers goes up and down over the years, with various tech bubbles growing and popping. There are some job markets during high demand times when any programmer with any level of skill can get a good job, can name their own price and make good money, but at other times there is oversupply of programmers, thousands of graduates apply for every entry-level job, where hirers have the advantage, they can name the price and pick only the best of the best. I’ve personally seen both situations in my career.
I will admit, once you get a few years of professional experience on your resume, your chances of landing a good job and making good money goes way up. And yes, it definitely can be a career.
It can be like an artform if you let it be. Or it can be rote and robotic. There are choices in how you express your talents, and how you approach given problems. Lots of people make money from good art anyway.
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I consider programming skills a very valuable skill that unlocks many career options, but if your job is morning but pure programming, yeah most people are not cut out for it.
any money
Can you please define that? Being the Internet, some define it as US$1 or US$250,000.
In an interesting and challenging field, yes, you need to be really good at it because everyone wants to do it. But if you are willing to work on anything, like an ASP.NET Web Forms site built in 2005, that the business is entirely dependent upon to function in even the most basic capacity, with more technical debt than anyone would ever care to deal with, and no time allowed to refactor, you can make quite a nice living.
It is a career, for sure. It can be hard to get into, but I’ve been in the industry for a long time and I have worked with people who have been paid a developer’s salary for years who were unbelievably bad at their jobs.
I used to manage a software team - once I was trying to explain something to a coworker and asked them to write some code to loop from 1 to 10 for me, and they couldn’t do it. I even prompted them by saying “you know, write a for loop” and they said that they kinda knew what for loop was, but they wouldn’t know how to write one. I asked them to give it their best shot, just write the word “for” and then see what flows from there, but they were just not able to proceed. I explained how to do it to them, and then they asked me what an int (integer) was… but I had already explained what an int was the day prior. This person had an honours degree in computer science.
I’d say there are a lot of developers who are barely competent at copy/pasting code from stack overflow until it works. Maybe 10-20% of the people in SMEs are that. The majority are pretty decent, but kinda lazy. Then there are the incredibly competent and hard-working people who are like gold dust. A really good developer who isn’t a complete drama king/queen, has good communication skills and just gets on with their work instead of getting sucked into personal pet projects is incredibly rare.
I’m sorry but there’s just no way that anecdote is true. I refuse to believe it.
Honestly, if anyone else had told me this story, I’d assume that they were either exaggerating or that they were being an asshole to the other person in a way that made them shut down and not really want to engage with them, but it’s as near to an accurate recollection as I can make it. I’ve taught programming to people from all walks of life, from 13 to 60+ years old, I’ve mentored quite a lot of devs, I’ve taken kids from “yeah I’m interested in computers, I like playing games” to senior developers, and while I’m sure that my teaching style may not be perfect for everyone, I’ve never once heard any complaints that I made someone feel stupid, belittled or like they couldn’t make mistakes. I always encourage people to be as honest and open about what they do/don’t understand because if someone says “I don’t get it” I can explain something in another way that might make it click. But yeah, that day when I had just been through the whole for-loop thing and he asked me about integers again, it was as close to just completely exasperated as I’ve ever been with mentoring someone. It was a surreal, groundhog day feeling, like I was sisyphus, and my boulder was explaining to a computer science graduate what a whole number was.
I used to manage a software team - once I was trying to explain something to a coworker and asked them to write some code to loop from 1 to 10 for me, and they couldn’t do it. I even prompted them by saying “you know, write a for loop” and they said that they kinda knew what for loop was, but they wouldn’t know how to write one. I asked them to give it their best shot, just write the word “for” and then see what flows from there, but they were just not able to proceed. I explained how to do it to them, and then they asked me what an int (integer) was… but I had already explained what an int was the day prior. This person had an honours degree in computer science.
Are you sure you managed the team? I’m joking, but how did this person get through an interview, let a lone survive so long working as a dev?
Haha, it’s a fair comment - it’s a team I inherited, it wasn’t my hiring decision. I don’t know what the interview process was like before me, but I’m guessing it was a very old fashioned “where do you see yourself in 5 years” affair.
I’m pretty sure that they just muddled through by copy/pasting stuff seemingly at random and tinkering until it worked. Which can be a good way to learn, for sure, but it’s not really what you want from a professional developer, full time.
The guy who managed the team before me didn’t believe in object oriented design, and not in a cool Haskell way, in a really old fashioned “I can do everything with batch scripts” way. The team was using a programming language that was so old that they were using dosbox to compile it because the compiler was a 16-bit application.
Because the compiler was a 16-bit application
Name the language, mate. This sounds a bit too insane to be true.
Yeah, it was called DataFlex. The vendor has released new versions of it called Visual DataFlex (VDF) and then renamed VDF back to DataFlex, but this language was what we called “character mode” DataFlex. It’s still used by the company as their main data entry application even today and a lot of their processes still are written in DataFlex. A lot of the work that my team did was rewriting a lot of the old crap in C#, but there was just so much of it built up over the decades.
I sucked balls at programming and made six figures.
damn dude know your audience, you’re on Lemmy lol
Mate Im dogshit at programming and make plenty of money at it.
What crack are you smoking? There are thousands, probably millions, mediocre coders making 200k total comp+.
How did you come to that insane comment?
How did you come to that insane comment?
They took a few community college “video game programming” courses and got nowhere with it.
Maybe if you are a freelance programmer working out of a coffee shop…?
Work shouldn’t be the primary source of stress in our lives no matter what the job is.
Brb gonna go try to hack the NSA so I have something else to be stressed about
Park ranger. There are two kinds: chill and friendly, or the kind that make you show all your documents, prove your park stickers are valid, make you repark your car, and then scold you for being too loud even though the next nearest campsite is several hundred feet away and nobody has complained and you arent even being loud…
Watch Joe Pickett :-) . Bad ass!
You’re that camper. Turn the music off.
Nope, no music or media. Just sitting around the campfire telling stories and laughing. Sorry, but 9pm is not late, especially when quiet hour isn’t even until 10 at that particular site.
I don’t care that you like to get up at 5:30am for your morning run, I’ll be totally quiet when the actual park rules say I have to be.
Hmm, doesn’t sound overly specific for an assessment of an entire profession at all. DEFINITELY not based on a single day’s experience 🤔
Rough trend.
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Reddit mod
Being a general manager at any retail outlet
Oh god 100%.
This isn’t a matter of life or death, Nicole. This is a Disney Store in a mid-tier mall.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Assistant General Managers are even more serious so the sales people pick on them all the time.
Don’t you mean assistants TO the general manager? 😉
Assistant to the General Manager.
it’s actually a blue collar job where they do quite a bit of physical labor, at least the good ones. I have more respect for that then a lot of white collar jobs.
You probably shouldn’t decide how much to respect someone for what job they do. Unless they do like a really sketchy or immoral “job”, like a hitman or a scammer or something.
I think the only reason to respect someone is for what they do.
What better measure is there, even if job is only part of that? better to form my opinion of people for what they do rather than the traditional historical measures.
A persons actions are important, but so are personality and motivations. A job isn’t “what someone does because that’s who they are as a person”, it’s the thing that they do because they need to pay their bills. It’s one thing that you know for sure that they have ulterior motives for - money.
I respect people for how they act towards me and others. Are they generous, or selfish? Do they admit when they’re wrong, or do they double down on it? When they have power over others, are they cruel, or are they kind?
This is way more important than what job someone has. Often, what job someone has only gives you a guesstimate as to how wealthy their parents were, and little beyond that.
Disagree, I think that the way someone decides to spend their time says a lot about them. Sometimes you just need to work for money, I get that, but often times people just do whatever they fell into because they’re too lazy to chase their dreams or do something actually beneficial for society
Dogshit take tbh
Clearly touched a nerve
Yes, gaslighting idiocy tends to touch a nerve when people are trying to have a good faith discussion 🤷
I think I’m being pretty reasonable. If anything, I stated my opinion and I’m being attacked for it. I’m not trying to play victim, but all the feedback I’ve gotten from this comment is hostile
Because they need money to survive, and their parents can’t help them financially sp they cant get a degree in whatever field, even though every position in the field requires it?
I mention that sometimes this is the case and there’s nothing wrong with that. But you don’t necessarily need a degree to do meaningful work or to chase your dreams, just effort.
Accounting and banking.
All of them, I think.
their own
“Influencer”
Someone is bitter they can’t make a good salary being on YouTube 🤣
The question was about jobs.
“Influencer” is a “job.” They didn’t mention getting paid.
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Part time dog-walker.
What is the definition of a job? I guess if someone said musician, that would be a career instead? Is a self employed contractor a job or is every client a job? Does an actor have one job or many?
I considered a revenue stream to be a job but I’m not sure now.
I guess the definition of job is
vocation/occupation that generates your main financial incomeMain financial income
So if I have 3 positions of employment, only the part time gig that makes me 60% of my income is my job, but not the full time one, or the part time one that makes me a bit of money on the side?
Well, the main sources of income.
A robbery could be a job too, depends on the point of view
Middle management.
Teaching. Everyone seems to think teachers are full of themselves until they become a teacher and become full of themselves themselves.
it’s one of the most important professions but okay tell me more about how mrs dunn was mean to you and you suck at fractions
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How is saying teachers are important virtue signalling?
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Read the OP title, it asks what job do people take too seriously. I answered. Anyone who ignores we did just fine without our current system of teachers for centuries is already doing exactly that, taking it too seriously. It has nothing to do with your strawman of me thinking a teacher was mean to me.
Go back to being an illiterate, muck raking peasant or die young in a workhouse then, I guess. Fucking hell.
People in all the past golden ages did just fine without having the teaching system we have currently.
You know who the “Golden Age” was golden for? The relatively few educated people.
And for general relative prosperity and trade.
And you somehow genuinely feel that the average person’s prosperity was, relatively, better in that period?
Working 7 days a week, morning to night, producing that prosperity and trade for the educated class in exchange for a pittance. Whilst eating your table scraps in the dark, you can hope you don’t die of a disease you have no idea how to prevent contracting.
I love teaching, but the job of being a schoolteacher scares the heck out of me. Trying to earn the respect of 30 kids, while working from some standardized lesson plan, it sounds awful. I wouldn’t last a month.
I took classes which would qualify me to be a teacher. The biggest thing that scared me out of it were the unions and the fact they’re not even legally questionable sometimes. I didn’t want to become that. In the United States, the occupation has so much control that the head of the teachers’ union is considered the most dangerous individual in the nation according to a poll/ranking. Not sure if anyone would be willing to accept that as context for my answer though.
Everyone should be in a union. I’m happy to hear teachers are successfully unionised in the US.
If you grew up here you probably wouldn’t be saying this. Unions at their conception were supposed to be collectives of people who made sure they weren’t mistreated, but today they’re groups who use their membership numbers to make sure they get their way as often as possible. You may have heard about police here being notorious for overstepping in certain matters. In cases where this is true, that’s with the unfortunate help of the police union, which practices a needlessly strong honor-based system of nepotism. Teachers here are the same way. If anyone in power even remotely brings up any proposed bill that works in favor of teachers, such as one that gives them less required work time or more pay, they will pressure it into materialization, and they will exploit anything and everything for their giant wolf pack, allegorically-speaking. With Lemmy having a strong anti-capitalist sentiment, it strikes me as counterintuitively argumentative that the same demographic would be so supportive of unions.
Giving support to a bill that benefits workers through collective organisation is precisely what unions are for. Why are you against people wanting a better work/life balance? Unionise and you can have one too.
Because that’s not what they end up being used for most of the time, people here most often see them be used to impose one’s group’s interests on others, and these interests often dictate the fate of one’s future in the job. The issue is so bad the occupation is stigmatized in less populated areas.
Plus there’s the problem of having to relearn subjects to such a level of mastery that you can teach them effectively. Like 2nd grade math isn’t hard at all obviously but it’s really hard to synthesize and break down all material in a way that a developing mind can grasp it.
High school students are raging psychopaths. Being a teacher there is a life of eternal psychic warfare. It warps you, body and mind.
