“It is a complicated issue. It is truly a complicated issue, with a wide range of views, truly a wide range of views,” Jean-Pierre said. “There is no ‘yes or no’ answer to this, it is complicated. There is a rule that the Department of Education [DOE] has put forward, and we’re going to let that process move forward, and again, we want to make sure that while we establish guardrails with this rule, we also prevent discrimination, as well, against transgender kids. But again, a complicated issue with a wide range of views, and we respect that.”
“Absolutely no reason for the Biden admin to do this,” New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote. “It is indefensible and embarrassing. The admin can still walk this back, and they should. It’s a disgrace.”
“Honestly, this move by Biden to push a rule on trans kids in sports is not only a backwards betrayal, it [forces] us to have to spend our time dealing with god d*** sports instead of criminal bans on our healthcare,” Alejandra Caraballo, a civil rights attorney and LGBTQ+ advocate, wrote. “He could have just done nothing. This is legitimizing transphobia.”
The mOsT PrOgReSsIvE Administration in History™ 
“A complicated issue with a wide range of views, and we respect that” Fuck off out of here with that “centrist” nonsense. There’s nothing complicated about it, and it’s not an issue unless you want to turn it into one and want to appeal to people’s emotions like Republicans are doing. It was only a matter of time before they’d start throwing trans people under the bus. I guess with the coming elections it’s as good a time as ever.
Gotta love all the liberals coming in here telling us why it’s “complicated”, while pointing out they support trans right. No, you don’t support trans rights. Because if you did, you wouldn’t undermine those rights by parroting the same talking points as conservatives; talking points that are based on willfully ignoring facts, and even the lack of evidence that this is an issue that exists in the first place. It also gets tiring seeing those same people act like they know how trans people’s bodies work, and not even acknowledge the fact that trans people go through biological changes if they can get gender affirming care, and are very comparable to their cis counterparts. The medical science on it is right there, and trans people’s own experiences are living proof as well. But it’s easier forming bullshit “opinions” instead, especially if you have a certain agenda (conservatives), or just don’t care about said minority as much as you think you do.
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It is a complicated issue tho. Some transphobes deserve re-education camps, while others need to get the wall.
But again, a complicated issue with a wide range of views, and we respect that.
You don’t have to though.
In fact there should be no respect for the views of bigots
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Well funny you say that
Yes, they are. Especially you
You are a bigot. You are inventing a set of standards for fairness that stops exactly at “trans or cis”. How is it fair that one woman could be groomed and trained from birth by rich parents to be the best swimmer she can is allowed to compete against a poor woman raised with less nutrition who was self trained? Why drawn the line at trans or cis and not literally anywhere else?
You’re allowed to be born a gigantic thick-boned brick shithouse and compete against guys/girls born way fucking smaller than you but someone born with a vagina isn’t allowed to compete explicitly against somebody born with a dick as the only stated reason and you DON’T think it’s fueled by bigotry? You’re only fooling yourself. If discriminating against trans people made sense, you’d also being chomping at the bit to descriminate by height, weight, net worth, nutrition, etc. etc. You’d have 18 different leagues for one sport all neatly segregated and you could only compete with people who look exactly like you.
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Yep, I’m a bigot because I don’t want people taking steroids in sports.
ITS NOT FUCKING ENHANCEMENT DRUGS YOU WORTHLESS, BRAINLESS SHITBAG
Estrogen does the opposite of steroids you fucking moron
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sir you are a new account with 2 comments, both of which are in this thread, you wouldn’t do that unless you were hiding
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The brain understands that they are not the same, and unfortunately never will be.
this you about how trans people will never be the same as others of their gender?
I’ve yet to see one person who holds this position not be bigoted
If you think that i have some bad news for you…
I am conducting a scientific test of their claims
gulag the bastard
and 
He officially did not pass the vibe check
I fucking love science!
“Hey, African Americans are fine and all… I… I just don’t want them living next door to me alright?”
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But you know… you don’t have to be one, right?
You’d be way cooler.
“Harm reduction”
‘Harm Reduction’ is just libspeak for when they give ground to fascists. I hate the insidious nature of how the liberals disguise their bigotry.
quote about liberals being lying foxesUnfortunately I got some harm reduction bs from a fellow Hexbear not too long ago. Saying I have “Biden Derangement Syndrome” because I said
ing for “harm reduction” is some :LIB: shitWell, voting is nothing, who cares? Volunteering for a bidenist is actually detrimental lib shit
absolute nonsense
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Piss off
Yes, it is a complicated issue.
What’s complicated about it, name one single aspect about the issue that cannot be solved with “yes or no”.
Ah yes, the white segregationist, famous ally of the trans community
Ah yes, my favorite ally, old white guy who fucked up so hard he ended roe v wade.
Biden’s career is not deserving of trust.
hey coward @[email protected]. explain how this is complicated
The fact that you think you can cash in your ally points like this is some sort of game to avoid criticism proves how useless a label like “ally” is.
What has Biden actually done for trans rights? “He didn’t make things worse” doesn’t count.
trusted ally jack
trusted ally
strike breaking Joe Biden? ah yes, a true champion of the people.
what trusted ally?
trusted ally
Citation neededWhat’s complicated about it?
Yes, truly it’s the president who is the victim here and not the people getting killed for confusing social reactionaries.
Those all powerful Trans people bullying the smol bean president
*taps sign* “I want to live in the world chuds think we live in”
Complicated how?
“A lot of people think.” , says Biden admin after kidnapping hundreds of kids, sending them to work factory farms
no more half measures walter
Hey now! As a Liberal I absolutely think a untrained trans athlete is comparable to a cis athlete who’s honed their entire body for the sport and isn’t going through HRT is comparable!!
Just because trans athletes have their muscle mass changed by HRT and are competing with a body that they are unfamiliar with in terms of limits and physical composition doesn’t mean they don’t have an arbitrary advantage I assume (read: made up) because I don’t understand how HRT affects muscle mass or that i think education should be gatekeeped based on income, sports and academic ability.
Edit: to any libs lurking don’t come at me with the whole fast release power vs endurance muscle composition of afab and amab athletes because it’s wacky biological essentialism that doesn’t apply to a trans athletes muscle composition.
Edit 2: this pisses me off because most of the athletes kicking up a fuss are white athletes who already accused black athletes of being trans or intersex because they dominate or “have higher testosterone levels” and they are salty af about just losing and trans athletes are an easy scapegoat.
bigots delenda est
And Carthage too! ✊
“fast release power vs endurance” sounds like a rebrand of the “fast twitch muscles” bs
“fast twitch muscles”
I have no idea what this means and I’m glad that I’m OOTL for that one. Means I’m not hopelessly terminally online
Whatever one says about the state trans issue, fast and slow twitch muscle fibers are real categories of muscle. One is for short burst and the other for sustained exertion. Humans lean towards slow twitch and chimps towards fast twitch, which is part of why they can rip us apart.
I really enjoy the fact that humans, spindly and fragile as we are, found our physical advantages in “being kinda slow” and “being really sweaty”
We’re basically biological Terminators that can walk at things to death
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Absolutely, though you will never be engaging 100% one and 0% the other and there are differences between individuals (due to hormones, etc.). Isometric exercises like planks are mainly slow twitch and bursts of exertion like in burpees or sprints or powerlifting are more short twitch.
You will always be training both, but you can lean one way or the other.
It is but with more manosphere to it.
"It is a complicated issue. It is truly a complicated issue, with a wide range of views, truly a wide range of views… There is no ‘yes or no’ answer to this, it is complicated.”
I read this in Stephen Merchant’s voice
I have a question that comes from being uneducated on the matter, and I sincerely want to be. Trans woman athlete, amab, didn’t begin her transition yet. First, is it something that happens a lot, and secondly, how is allowing her to compete in female sports different from eliminating the distinction between male and female in competition?
I’m not super familiar with the details, but organizations already have rules about having to be X months/years into transition before competing. At that point there’s been so many changes to the body that there’s no longer a meaningful difference in athletic performance from a cis athlete.
This sports transphobia is mostly directed at trans girls/femme/women, right?
Are they doing this shit to AFAB people in men’s sports?
Regardless all this discourse is wrapped up in misogyny too, implying that people AFAB are always going to be worse at sports.
And it doesn’t take into account the general unfairness in sports. Some people are born into wealthy families who can afford to feed their kids, get them healthcare, and train them into sports.
It’s all the talking points about affirmative action, just in a different font.
Are they doing this shit to AFAB people in men’s sports?
chess is lmao
Oh right. I keep forgetting how many brainworms are active at once
Proving how big their brains actually are, they do transphobia to all trans people.
all these hot big tiddy trans women keep distracting me and making me lose my chess game!
Ah, the Chaser gambit. Very situational
I moved to E4 instead of E5 cause I was
Lenin was a revisionist for being an avid chess player and thus a g*mer.
Yes, trans men are being forced to compete against women against their will. They never cared about fairness, it’s entirely about hurting trans people.
Yeah max beggs in Texas. Trans guy wrestler who absolutely dominated because transphobic Texas politicians made him compete vs women.
And then the transphobes can point to that and say “see, trans people should just be banned” when they’re the assholes who caused all of this in the first place
Fucking hate it here
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The brain understands that they are not the same, and unfortunately never will be.
There it is lol. thanks for nothing, bitch
an ideal world is one where all the fascists and capitalists are laid out in a nice little line and mowed down with .50 cal’s
It is pretty complicated, yeah. Scientifically accurate human sex is not conducive to cleanly segregating people into two categories. Yeah, there are clusters, but I guess all systems are perfectly reasonable as long as you ignore all the ways that they don’t make sense or fail to do their job. Ending gender segregation is the only valid solution.
But question of whether or not the Biden administration’s Department of Education should be using its powers to limit trans kids from playing school sports? That’s the only thing they have the power to do on this issue. And the answer is not complicated.
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I don’t understand what you mean by this
when there is an @ after the username, you can be assured the chance of being a shit opinion is high
It’s not complicated whatsoever.
A transwoman is a woman, regardless of where they are in transition. They don’t have to transition AT ALL for that to be true.
They are a woman with a condition - being trans.
A trans man is a man, regardless of where they are in transition. They don’t have to transition AT ALL for that to be true.
They are a man with a condition - being trans.
The only “complicated” thing in this is your bigoted mindset. You believe that these people are not what they say they are until they undergo and complete transition. You see them as their gender assigned at birth, which is incorrect, and you see them as “changing” their gender by undergoing invasive hormone treatment and surgery. This is a completely bigoted transphobic mindset and you need to rid yourself of these brainworms.
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The issue is that you think they need to transition in order to be fucking valid dipstick. By enforcing “you must transition first” you are actively taking the position that they’re not valid until they do.
Fuck you. Stop talking to trans people. You are dangerous to them and their health.
Unless you believe that people will change their genders expressly for an advantage in sports, the differences aren’t salient. And you shouldn’t believe that.
There is no easy, fix all answer. It does not exist. You are left with a minority vs a majority. In an ideal world, yes, the answer would be easy and done with. We do not live in an ideal world.
There an “easy fix.” There is an “easy answer” and you know exactly what that is the same way that ghoul does. The reason we don’t live in an “ideal world” is because people like you advocate for throwing minorities under the bus the moment our existence becomes even slightly inconvenient for you.
“Period, end of story.”
“That being said…”
You support trans people. BUT… is not support of trans people. Its not complicated. The science is not complicated, its settled and theres no difference.
If you support trans peole stop at “end of story.”
Edit: i reread your post and its even worse than i thought at first glance. You’re just an outright bigot in denial.
Women’s figure skating was created because Madge Syers was too good and the men felt threatened.
yes. You will notice though that the primary direction of transphobic rhetoric is aimed at trans women and not trans men. this is a result of misogyny at its core. this is part of the phenomenon of transmisogyny, the intersection of misogyny and transphobia
It is also about patriarchy in that it is seen as a problem for a man to give up his patriarchal benefits, while it is seen as a virtue for women to seek patriarchal benefits. Same reason that gay men always suffered more gay hate than lesbians, the appearance of taking on the “feminine” role is viewed as a threat to patriarchy.
And in a world where modern psychology was founded upon the teaching that all young girls suffer from penis envy, most people think striving for masculinity seems like a perfectly reasonable goal. Author and sex activist Patrick Califia, who is a trans man, addresses this in his 1997 book Sex Changes: The Politics of Transgenderism: “It seems the world is still more titillated by ‘a man who wants to become a woman’ than it is by ‘a woman who wants to become a man.’ The first is scandalous, the latter is taken for granted. This reflects the very different levels of privilege men and women have in our society. Of course women want to be men, the general attitude seems to be, and of course they can’t. And that’s that.”
Once we recognize how media coverage of transsexuals is informed by the different values our society assigns to femaleness and maleness, it becomes obvious that virtually all attempts to sensationalize and deride trans women are built on a foundation of unspoken misogyny. Since most people cannot fathom why someone would give up male privilege and power in order to become a relatively disempowered female, they assume that trans women transition primarily as a way of obtaining the one type of power that women are perceived to have in our society: the ability to express femininity and to attract men.
Whipping Girl, by Julia Serano
Transphobia directed at transmascs is also always mysogynist in nature. Its core concepts are toxic notions of masculinity seen as unfullfillable for AFAB individuals, the maintainance of control over AFAB bodies as reproductive units and sexual objects, and the denial of agency to AFAB individuals, all due to their assigned “female” gender. Terfs routinely claim that trans men and transmasculine nonbinary people are just “confused girls” making a mistake, the entire terf discourse around the issue hinges on the concept not to let people designated as broodmares decide what to do with their uteruses because they are too emotional and irrational to make choices for themselves. It doesn’t get more mysogynist than that, which is ironic when the target of the mysogyny are men, but that’s bio-essentialism for you. When you want to see how fully seperated any and all terfs have become from the feminist roots at least some of them used to have, how deeply and utterly mysogynist they have become, ask them about trans dudes.
“Gay = Feminine” never made any sense to me. I’m gay as hell and I’ve never been anything close to feminine. It has literally zero basis outside of, I don’t know, cishet creep mentality?
In their minds it’s simply because anyone that wants to get with a man is obviously taking on the feminine role, and that both men are feminine because of it.
And the other side of it is probably campness being the one thing straight people could use to clock gay people, and campness becoming associated (incorrectly) with all gay people because of its visibility.
Guess that for the straights there are two orientations: straight and sexual/flamboyant.
I’m basically like a stereotypical straight guy in every way except I happen to be gay (and without the creep attitude that seems incredibly common).
That I don’t fit the stereotype has led to an “are you sure tho?” Groundhog Day. Like, motherfucker yes I’m sure, I don’t go around questioning your straightness and suggesting you try same sex relationships every other week.
Cishets need to be placed under clinical observation.
Right and this is a problem for trans people in a unique way too. The trans people that pass can blend so well that cis people don’t think they even exist, and if they do they’re actually ok with those people because they don’t even register as “bad” to them, they can just pretend they don’t exist and in doing so they don’t threaten patriarchy at all because they’re non-existent.
The only idea of a trans person that exists in the head of cis people is those that do not pass. The ones they can clock. The ones that do not fit in the social design and patriarchy that they want.
The intersection of transphobia and misogyny, but you’ll still get people who deny that intersectionality is a thing.
I am so exhausted with this heteronormative/cisnormative (I’m sure there’s another word for it but I can’t recall) society treating every LGBT person as some exotic animal, like there must be an explanation and you owe it to them for your deviation from the “norm”. Rabid queerphobes spewing their vitriol about the LGBTs controlling society when trans people are being murdered left and right. Disgusting, profoundly sick society.
I would post more but I am exhausted lol
adding this to the long list of reasons im not voting for biden again when libs ask. my go-to is always “that fucker still owes me $600!”
Joe Biden owes me $600 and I don’t even fuckin live there
So, you think voting for a Republican or not voting is going to get the job done?
What is the job that needs to get done?
Since I was eighteen, I have voted for a third party even when its chances were hopeless, if the main parties were unsatisfactory; or, in absence of a third choice, voted for the lesser of two evils.
I could vote, but the election in which I could vote was a farce.
I shall not go to the polls. I have not registered. I believe that democracy has so far disappeared in the United States that no “two evils” exist. There is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I can do or say.
This Administration is dominated and directed by wealth and for the accumulation of wealth. Corporate wealth profits as never before in history. We turn over the national resources to private profit and have few funds left for education, health or housing. We let men take wealth which is not theirs; if the seizure is “legal” we call it high profits and the profiteers help decide what is legal. If the theft is “illegal” the thief can fight it out in court, with excellent chances to win if he receives the accolade of the right newspapers.
Gambling on the stock market is increasing and all prices are rising. It costs three times his salary to elect a Senator and many millions to elect a President. This money comes from the very corporations which today are the government. This in a real democracy would be enough to turn the party responsible out of power. Yet this we cannot do.
I have no advice for others in this election. Are you voting Democratic? Well and good; all I ask is why? Are you voting for Biden and his smooth team of bright ghost writers? Again, why? Will your helpless vote either way support or restore democracy to America?
Is the refusal to vote in this phony election a counsel of despair? No, it is dogged hope. It is hope that if millions of voters refrain from voting in 2024 because of their own accord and not because of a sly wink from Putin, this might make the American people ask how much longer this dumb farce can proceed without even a whimper of protest. Yet if we protest, off the nation goes to Russia and China.
Fifty-five American philanthropists are asking China “to face manfully the doubts and promptings of their conscience.” Can not these do-gooders face their own consciences? Can they not see that American culture is rotting away: our honesty, our human sympathy; our literature, save what we import from abroad? Our manners are gone and the one thing we want is to be rich–to show off. Success is measured by income.
University education is for income, not culture, and is partially supported by private industry. We are not training poets or musicians, but engineers. Business is built on successful lying called advertising. We want money in vast amount, no matter how we get it. So we have it, and what then?
Is the answer the election of 2024? We can make a sick man President and set him to a job which would strain a man in robust health. So he dies, and what do we get to lead us? We remain in the same mess. I will be no party to it and that will make little difference. You will take large part and bravely march to the polls, and that also will make no difference.
Stop running Russia and giving Chinese advice when we cannot rule ourselves decently. Stop yelling about a democracy we do not have. Democracy is dead in the United States. Yet there is still nothing to replace real democracy. Drop the chains, then, that bind our brains. Drive the money-changers from the seats of the Cabinet and the halls of Congress. Call back some faint spirit of Jefferson and Lincoln, and when again we can hold a fair election on real issues, let’s vote, and not till then. Is this impossible? Then democracy in America is impossible.
web
Voting for Democrats means you are actually voting for Republicans because Democrats do whatever Republicans want, serve the same class, and are themselves Republicans. So not voting is actually harm reduction. Voting just helps Republicans.
yep, straight facts
yes, if the democrats won’t earn our votes, we’ll withhold them. it’s not like a democrat in office meaningfully slows down the pace of fascism.
Withhold and help the Republicans.
the democrats are helping the republicans far better than I ever could.
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no, democrats have demonstrated repeatedly that they are unwilling to do anything. you would be a fool to vote for them over and over again after seeing their incompetence and unwillingness to even slightly push back against the reactionary policies being enacted under biden
The Democratic Party has room for improvement, sure, but it’s also the only party with room for improvement. On this issue, not voting is the same as voting for a Republican. That surely won’t get you any improvement.
I hear the same thing from both parties, therefore not-voting must be the same as voting for both parties, which counts as voter fraud.
Actually since the democrats are republicans, by not voting for democrats I’m voting for democrats
The Democratic Party has room for improvement
Yes and this it the room
no, not voting is just not voting. voting for the republican party is voting for the republican party. and from where im standing, the difference between dems and republicans is negligible. the dems arent offering any “improvement”
The Republicans are salivating over the prospect of you not voting. Exactly what they want.
The dems also. The less voters they less they have to spend on marketing. Imagine if they proposed one popular thing. They would have the election in the bag. That is all it would take, one broadly popular position. They are so opposed to democracy that people generally being in favor of a thing is not reason enough for them to enact a policy. They would rather spend donation money proping up GOP candidates than legalizing weed nationally or whatever.
the dems are salivating over the prospect of useful idiots like you voting for them election after election after decades of failing to deliver on any of their promises because “it’s complicated.” Exactly what they want.
further exploiting and oppressing the working class is exactly what the republicans want. and the dems are united w them in that
Thise two parties are nothing alike.
The Democratic party doubled Trump’s deportation numbers, gave the police record funding and has now ceded trans rights to the right
There is no room for improvement and no point in voting in national elections, we warned you motherfuckers but you didn’t listen, now eat shit dem
oh my god THE WORLD ISN’T REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT
THEY’RE BOTH STUPID FUCKS THAT ARE TWO SIDES OF THE SAME FASCIST COIN
So you think that rewarding the Democrats for having the only standard be “Our senile, racist, rapist, corrupt, reactionary war criminal doesn’t have an orange spray tan” is going to “get the job done”? Or just the entire party being the polite, norms-respecting Republicans.
I think it’s the only party that does not vilify LGBTQ people, so I’ll keep voting for them for that reason and many others.
What thread do you think you’re posting on you dumb fuck?
Tenderqueer moment. Unable to see how the US reactionary political system systemically undermimes queer folks who are most likely to be marginalized. But poor/unhoused BIPOC queers should wait their turn, right?
“It’s the only party…”
There are only two state sponsored parties (of the bourgeoisie and those they induct) and a corrupt electoral college. What other parties are there? The Republican party has devolved into mask off facism and the democratic party is concerned with their own positions.
You’re literally commenting on a post about democrats being incompetant and unwilling. Don’t you think that might lead some to think they don’t actually care about queer people but instead their own clout chasing?
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Sure. Some might think that. But there is still lightyears between those two parties when it comes to LGBTQ priorities. Republicans are just hoping your frustration will cause you to stay home on election day.
If you are the most pro-lgbt person, but don’t do anything that defends them, you’re not an ally, you’re a fucking patsy
Ok. You stay home on election day or vote for a Republican. See where that gets you.
No they’re not. You have conservative think tanks with a detailed plan about how they’re going to make being trans illegal in the US and you have literally nothing from the leader of the Democrats who is supposedly different in their priorities with queer folk. There hasn’t been any serious attempt at pushback against states criminalizing and going after trans youth. And in the context of years and years of conservative laws across the country eroding our right to exist, they release a statement like this. There is no difference between these people. They just want to be able to call themselves allies because they think it builds character for themselves. Allies cannot dictate our liberation and allies will just as quickly silence their support of us when it becomes a little uncomfortable while we are still here and we still have to live in this shitty country.
But tell me how it’s all according to keikaku and that the Dems are actually totally on our side guys, just ignore the last 70 years of history.
Republicans are just hoping your frustration will cause you to stay home on election day.
This is literally about the Democrats being worthless craven shitheads as usual. I’m writing in Hillary again in 2024, fuck you.
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Which LGBTQ priorities? When Biden talks about the rights of queer people, the only thing he brings up is gay marriage when the GOP openly talks about ending the right of trans people to exist as ourselves in public, whi9ch if you knew anything about our lifes and how we need to lead them you’d recognize as openly genocidal. Biden is a coward who doesn’t even dare to say the word trans in public while DeSantis and Abbot are already making lists of trans people. What he has done instead is this shit we’re discussing here, when he could’ve opened up planned parenthood clinics on federal land to guarantee access to free abortion and gender affirming care in red states, could’ve stepped in when Florida "legalized abducting trans kids out of state for forced conversion therapy*, could’ve coordinated the isolated efforts of some democrats on the state level to create asylum states for trans people etc. etc.
Instead, he is tiptoeing around the “complicated issue” if people like me should have basic human rights.
You’re right. They are more of the Uvalde Cops to the Republicans school shooter. Even when they nominally have power they wont even rhetorically fight back, let alone use that power, to defend LGBTQ people in any way.
I understand your frustration, but not voting or voting for a Republican will just make matter worse. There’s surely room for improvement among Democrats, but it’s also the only party with room for improvement.
There’s plenty of room for improvement to be very diplomatic about it. But you seem to mistake room for improvement with actual improvement. Who cares if the democrats could theoretically do better when they patiently and consistently don’t? What good is this void of unrealised improvement doing anybody?
Either you believe that the mere existence of room for improvement is a material gold, which makes no sense. Or you believe that there exists a mechanism for getting the democrats to realise that improvement, a way of pursuing then left. How this is going to work remains a mystery and believing that the democrats will improve tomorrow seems more like a coping mechanism than anything that is likely to actually happen.
but not voting or voting for a Republican will just make matter worse.
Because the democrats have done so fucking much to stop the republicans. Hell, if they get any worse, they could send them a mean letter!
No, ignoring the extremely limited efficacy and right-wing bias of electoralism, their entire point is just being the “Not Republican Party”. As long as they can only offer that and nothing else, and still be electorally competitive, they never have to improve and will actively fight against improvement. Additionally, they actually do more to aid the Republicans and right-wing agenda as long as they are really ineffective and out-of-touch and in people’s minds voting for them is the only real opposition the Republicans, while constantly capitulating to Republicans on issues like trans rights. But ultimately, this is why the Republicans are much more responsive to what their base wants, since even if they are reactionary, and can somewhat generate the culture war issues, they are the only party offering a positive agenda. (Positive in the sense of a politics of making changes and advancing agendas rather than just saying that the other party is worse. Not saying their agenda is good, obviously)
So, yes, there is some times, particularly on close elections or local elections where you can get improvement by voting Democrat over some Q-anon or MAGA psycho. But you also have to admit, especially with Federal elections, not voting for Democrats is not really making things worse or doing less “harm mitigation” than voting for a Biden, or whatever right-wing bigot the Democrats throw up next. Especially if, even on things like LGBTQ rights, they immediately capitulate and take the Republican position, just with more polite rhetoric.
No one here is voting Republican. The fact that you’re including that as a possibility is a massive indication that you don’t understand what we’re on about.
There’s room for improvement? Are you sure? What are you basing that on? It must be vibes cause it sure as fuck doesn’t follow with the transphobic statements of
brandon’s handlers.
You guys are unironically basically just as bad as the republicans
as a trans woman, your concern is worthless to me.
but no its the queer people who are wrong on this issue, not you
the only party that does not vilify LGBTQ people
might wanna check the OP you’re posting on before you.trot that take out there chief
Just in case anyone from other instances are stopping by, this is how liberal democracy leads to fascism. You have a right wing party that wants to criminalize being trans while tacitly supporting physical violence and extermination. The only viable opposition party can’t even use decisive language about the validity and existence of trans people among cis people. Because it might hurt their polling.
Now the strongest, political position from the “left” is “it’s complicated.” So when the right starts being very clear about violence and carrying it out through official state entities, the new left position will be even more to the right. Because they already gave up on “Trans people should participate in the things cis people do.” So it’s not even about trans people living a normal life. Historically, by the time we get there, it doesn’t matter what the left position is anymore. Because the right has taken over and are putting people in camps.
This is why it’s so very annoying to hear about harm reduction and voting the lesser evil. That’s not how it works. One hand washes the other. The lesser evil just leads to greater evil getting strong anyways. It doesn’t stop it or bide you time. The only lesser evil is violent revolution, which is only evil if you don’t understand what’s at stake here.
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I’m one of those people from other instances stopping by that hasn’t thought a lot about this issue.
It’s a shame that US politics seems to be so boolean. As in, the only acceptable position for a political party is the polar opposite of their opposition.
What if an issue is genuinely complicated and cannot be resolved by a three word statement of position? Can there be no discussion around that?
What if an issue is genuinely complicated
This one isn’t complicated, liberal. Anybody who demands inspecting the genitals of highschool girls because his daughter’s team lost an amateur soccer match (which is what this boils down to and what is already happening out there) is a pervert who needs to be hunted down with the full force of the law. Trans women in sports are not a competive issue anywhere. There is not a single sport were we are a relevant force, and in fact our presence is not an issue at all anywhere unless we’re talking absolute edge cases like medically untransitioned trans women in full contact martial arts, which do not even apply in this case because we are talking motherfucking school sports. You do not base political discourse on edge cases not even relevant to the topic in question when the reasoning they’re brought up in the first place is a full-fledged plan for our outright genocide. Wake up and smell the Zyklon B, liberal. This is what has been going on this year, a concerted, nationwide effort to eradicate us starting with gender affirming care for minors and sports bans that is backed by the entire Republikan party and a gigantic propaganda budget that has made my people public enemy number one for the most fanaticised part of the base of your country’s fascist party.
TheUSA has already been consistently among the nations with the most transphobic murders worldwide for years. Florida and Texas are at the point where they are openly making lists of my siblings. If you still think this is complicated, you can walk into a buzzsaw for all i care.
It’s not complicated because the issue is complicated. It’s complicated because the spokesperson for the leader of the Democratic party has to be careful with what she says. It’s complicated because saying yes pisses of the alleged moderate majority who disagree with saying yes. It’s complicated because saying no pisses off the progressive and shits on the pro LGBTQIA+ image of the party. You can’t strip away the politics of the situation or do a thought experiment where cows are spheres and there’s no friction. The situation and answer can only be understood in the actual context within which it exists, along with the historical moment and broader context.
It is not complicated because letting trans teens play on the same team as cis teens is a deeply complicated issue that cannot be resolved with a slogan.
And I just explained that it’s not boolean. It’s not 1 and 0, it’s just 0. And the minute someone tries to suggest 1 instead, the people more concerned that people might have the wrong opinions about complexity show up. We’re trying to make the discussion more nuanced and complicated, it’s the moderates and adults in the room stopping us.
letting trans teens play on the same team as cis teens is a deeply complicated issue that cannot be resolved with a slogan.
“Trans women are women, women should be allowed to play in women’s sports.”
That’s not a very complicated slogan IMO.
that hasn’t thought a lot about this issue
Yeah, we can tell.
Now now, be nice
What if an issue is genuinely complicated and cannot be resolved by a three word statement of position? Can there be no discussion around that?
That’s fine if it’s an issue that is worthy of debate.
We’re talking here specifically about the rights and survival of human beings, and in that kind of case, no. There is no room for debate. There is no complexity. You either support people’s right to live, or you don’t. There fundamentally cannot be a grey area here; any response that includes the words “yes, but” automatically cedes ground to fascists.
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ahh yes, let me politely debate the merits of my own existence. the truth definitely lies in between the extremes of “let me live my life” and “exterminate the slurs”
oh don’t be coy, your nonsense fools no one. Jump off a bridge, your only use is as fertilizer
The people pushing for the changes to high school sports policy have also been calling for the extermination of trans people from the earth. We’re not the ones making it sound nuts. Talk to the Republican base.
As in, the only acceptable position for a political party is the polar opposite of their opposition.
It’s not though. One party is saying “trans people shouldn’t exist and we tacitly support their extra judicial murder” and the other party is saying “ehh it’s complicated”. The polar opposite would be if the democrats started doing [REDACTED]
If you haven’t thought a lot about this issue, then you may not be aware that the issue is nothing but complete transphobia. It is not “complicated” the science is actually very clear and the only reason to be against trans people in sports is bigotry and claiming its “complicated” is supporting that bigotry
We’ve discussed and solved it a hundred times already, and the solution is the same every time.
