I appreciate the fuck out of Hexbear. Over the past few years I’ve seen a massive ideological shift in a bunch of communities I use to enjoy. Like feminist communities shifted from egalitarian/humanist perspectives towards more bigioted attitudes, people stopped caring about confronting their own biases, and instead try to justify them, because “the patriarchy”. I’ve encountered these people in real life. I once got in an argument with another nonbinary with them telling me “You need to understand the world sees you as a white male”.
I see people getting called white supremace for calling out racism.
Sorry I know this is a ramble, still processing.
Anyways, now that I see the fingerprints of Marxism I can just call it out.
I think this is a side effect of social media algorithms as a whole. It pushes people into more extreme views of content/ideoligies that they already have, potentially pushing them to a point they wouldn’t have chosen.
Yeah, it’s hella dangerous
The thing is you use to see rebuttals, but now you don’t. I don’t really know, but I remember a massive shift when Trump began raising in popularity Reddit communities started to become a lot more insular. You’d get autobanned from communities if you posted in a subreddit with the wrong political affiliation.
And then just last year I was on my local subreddit, one user was just being blatant racist towards whites, another user posted “What happened to colourblindness”, I reported the first comment, the mods locked the second. So I asked what was up, and got told “colourblindness is white supremace rhetoric”, and they saw nothing wrong with the anti-white comment.
I think it’s not just the content that’s being curated, but our userbases.
Man i wish I could clean my shirt with the ironing of this comment 🤣
Wow, this is amazing. Not at all like what happened at reddit…
My political alignment is anti-communism, they are going to have a difficult time if they try to radicalize here.
I align somewhere near communism/socialism/anarchism. They are so fucking stupid though. They will argue that a political class taking all control is good for the working class. The goal of communism is to transfer control to the working class, though there is an argument to be made the methods of getting there require some form of government control first. They don’t care that things in China are being consolidated still. They’re authoritarian first, not communist.
What country are you from?
Why does this comment have 10 downvotes? Seems like a genuine, well-intentioned question to me.
Because it’s irrelevant what country they’re from. An argument should stand or fall on its own merits, not on the basis of who makes it. In that sense the question isn’t an intellectually serious one. People can sense that even if they don’t necessarily articulate it, hence the downvotes.
Because most the people in this thread are just here yo flex hate on anything they consider anti american without actually engaging in actual discussion.
You know, like the discussion that happens on hexbear that is constantly met with ‘fuck you tankie’.
You clearly haven’t been in this community for very long.
I’ve yet to see any dissent or speech that suggests against communism in Hexbear. If you see any, feel free to link it.
What
If you see someone talking against communsim in Hexbear, or Lemmygrad, or any other extremist community, feel free to link it.
Does it matter?
oh oops, i replied to the wrong comment!
Can we not assume that every question asked on Lemmy is hostile? I don’t see what’s wrong with that comment. Besides, I don’t think @[email protected] is pro-hexbear anyway.
I’m pro-federation. but i’m also a masochist.
Even the title Tankie is too undeserving of them, they don’t care aboutbany of that shit. They are authoritarian bootllickers and that is all.
Ah yes, that central tenet of communism, “compensation”.
Yup, logically inconsistent, and if you confront them about it they tell you they are just being “le masters of irony”.
communism in theory is vastly superior to whatever we have now. But in practice it’s entirely inept for the human race. Maybe we should consider some sort of meritocracy that doesn’t rely on bottom up or top down extremes. Transparency and equal opportunity should be the core tenants
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communism in theory is vastly superior to whatever we have now. But in practice it’s entirely inept for the human race.
I’m assuming that what you are referring to as ‘communism’ is actually Marxism-Leninism, they’'re different things. Yes, state socialism (Marxism) has proven that it can end badly, but it’s not the only way to implement socialism, others have proven or are proving they can work.
Maybe we should consider some sort of meritocracy
Real meritocracy doesn’t exist, not without real communism first. Each generation inherits a set of inequalities from the previous one, ignoring them to only focus on achievements becomes a tool for the powerful to justify their power (I received a small loan of a million dollar and did fine, that means I deserve living life on easy mode; meanwhile the poor guy that dropped out of school to pay the bills didn’t work hard enough to lift himself out of poverty).
Revolutionary Catalonia existed for weeks and really shouldn’t be used as an example of proving the success of anything. It simply wasn’t around long enough for if to do much.
While the Kurdish groups are interesting they exist within a larger state that is taking on several roles of the state, such as maintaining the larger economy, so that the Kurds do not have to do so. Thus the Kurds aren’t proving the efficacy of their system independent of a capitalist system as it is in a capitalist nation-state.
I don’t think you have good examples here.
Revolutionary Catalonia existed for weeks
More like 2-3 years. Yes, it’s still not much, but not mere weeks either. There were also other anarchist territories at the time and they all worked under socialist principles, none of them caused famines, deportations nor genocides; they don’t exist anymore because they got betrayed and hunted down by the soviets, which were authoritarian since day 1.
While the Kurdish groups are interesting they exist within a larger state that is taking on several roles of the state
The Syrian state? During a civil war? Like, what roles?
And is it actually the state taking those roles? At the end of the day, all politicians do is sign papers, the world is shaped by the workers. It’s workers that build and run hospitals, railways etc. If workers under the Syrian state can make the electricity run, why would the same workers suddenly not be able to anymore “under” the kurds?
I don’t think you have good examples here.
How about the Zapatistas, then? They’re around since the 90s and they’re independent from the Mexican state.
Honestly I’m pretty sure the coup part happened on reddit. I feel like I witnessed multiple subs get taken over by tankies.
ToiletPaperUSA almost got couped. Like, in a nearly literal sense. One of the mods expelled like half of the other mods for the crime of not being tankies and started censoring anti-China posts.
I mean, we don’t need to spread toxicity on the fediverse by making fun of folks. I thought we left that behind. If hexbear users become a problem, they can be blocked. Otherwise let folks be whatever they want. We don’t need to recreate the same shitty subs from reddit that just exist to make fun of people.
We don’t need to recreate the same shitty subs from reddit that just exist to make fun of people.
That’s literally a sub that hexbear has. Dunking on libs. That’s one of the core tenets of hexbear. (I’m not pro or anti hexbear, but they espouse the literal thing you’re defending them for.)
I’m not defending them? I’m just saying we don’t need to create a community to make fun of others. I just think if that’s all that instance is, block it or ask the instance defederate it.
Both of these instances, hexbear and lemmygrad, have similar communities that are much older and much larger. Are you going to go to each of these communities and make the same demands?
No, cause they’re clearly a problem and I recommended defederating instead. Are you suggesting you prefer you rather be like them? You admit they’re a problem but advocate to do the same thing as them. That’s a fucked up defense. You are bringing yourself to their level.
Moreover, I’m guessing they must be defederated from a lot of the instances in my network because I rarely ever see posts from them. But I see posts making fun of them constantly. So either they’re not a problem and others are or most of them took the nature and less toxic way of dealing with the issue.
If toxicity shows up in my feed, I’m not s fan and this has been showing up constantly.
And to circle back, are we four years old now that your argument is that they’re doing it so you can do to too? Jfc, grow the fuck up.
ask the instance defederate it.
That’s in progress. The reason for the recent flurry of activity on this community is that hexbear recently federated with sh.itjust.works, and the users of both instances seem to now be pretty unhappy with that decision.
I’m fine with Hexbear users. They’re actually funny compared to their lemmygrad sisters.
I’d like you to make this exact same comment on those instances as well. They have identical communities.
On the contrary, mocking tankies and fascists wherever they are found is good and necessary.
Tankies and fascists must never feel welcome, and for the same reasons. Even Chompskyites, monarchists, and ancaps pale in comparison. Tankies and fascists have no interest in being part of a functioning community that isn’t run by them.
… though I might suggest making ancaps unwelcome simply to avoid the inevitable age of consent arguments.
You’re starting to sound exactly like them. That’s virtually the same type of emphatic shit they’d say to justify their dunk tank bullshit.
Paradox of tolerance, my friend. To maintain a tolerant society, you cannot tolerate intolerance.
Or, in other words: Tolerance is a social contract. When others break that social contract, you have the right to respond in kind.
Outright denying genocides and praising Putin’s aggression in Ukraine is what I’d call intolerant. I don’t care what your pronouns are or how LGBTQ friendly you are, supporting fascism and genocide is not okay and breaks the social contract we have.
You sound exactly like them, I can’t tell the difference.
Your failures are evident.
The only failure happening, is Lemmy still showing me notifications from y’all impotent toxic avengers in this community, after I blocked it multiple hours ago. So I’ll just start dishing them out individually. Enjoy.
That’s a lot of copium you got there
Could you specify which parts in the comment you replied to which sounds like tankies? They described the paradox of tolerance perfectly as well as summarised the viewpoints of tankies, neither of which any tankies would say themselves.
So you can see why people are wondering about your bizarre remark, and some may even suspect you to have been disingenous.
As I alluded to in another comment, I’m not necessarily against the dunking itself, I’m against the death cult ideology that they bring with them. If you find that kind of mockery annoying, then this probably isn’t a community you want to involve yourself in.
I don’t see cacheson denying genocide or celebrating authoritarianism.
well said comrade. here’s a ration
Why did you say fascist twice?
I won’t normally try to correct people on it, but fascists and tankies aren’t quite the same. The latter are vile authoritarians, but fascism is a more specific thing, even if it’s still kind of fuzzy and hard to nail down.
Though if you just meant it as a joke, carry on. o7
Tankies are vile human beings with an ultimately good goal (even if no real way of achieving it with their methods).
Fascists are vile human beings with vile goals.
I wouldn’t say the goal is good. Some aspects of it, yes, even if I don’t agree with it. But they openly call for violence against those they disagree with. I wouldn’t call that good.
I mean, I would call that the method. Generally, they theoretically are still calling for an end-goal of stateless communism.
A goal that will never be reached because it is a utopian dream. Human flaws will stop it occurring everytime, and that’s where the big problems are. They can only achieve it through violence, and every time it’s been tried that violence ends up being used to shore up the power of the few at the top.
We’re still better off with none of them, however
We must make it clear to others before their minds are infected by communist “ideas”. It’s good to shatter the delusion before they are more emboldened
The issue with hexbear isn’t communism…
Meanwhile in my Lemmy app…
(Blocked by an instance filter)
(Blocked by an instance filter)
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(Blocked by an instance filter)
(Blocked by an instance filter)
Which app do you use that has instance filters? I’m using Liftoff and I didn’t find an option for that and I’d really like to filter some shit instances
As suggested, Connect. Excellent filter capabilities. My feed is pretty enjoyable now, at least on my phone. The only thing I’m missing is filtering out comments with specific keywords but that isn’t a huge issue. I downvote and occasionally block a user if they just post an emoji or a pun.
I even have a “system”:
- Instances with annoying users like those on hexbear, blahaj or lemmygrad: complete instance block.
- Communities which I have no interest in: block
- Spam bots reposting articles, reddit threads or links to some random blog post: instance/user block depending on context and how many posts per hour they spit out.
- Too many posts about the same subject that I don’t care about: keyword block. Absolute bliss when Elon Musk and Donald Trump is gone.
I only interact with content that I find interesting. Not a huge fan of defederation if it’s not pedo paradise or spam bot/troll farm. There are some good tutorials online on how to tie a noose if one of those two are your thing. Everyone has the right to an opinion and I have the right to ignore crazies.
Liftoff says 131 replies but I only see less than a dozen. Feels good.
They are all mentally unwell. So sick of seeing their shit. Literally no different than the ultra MAGA crowd just the opposite end of the spectrum. Insane people congregating sharing insane beliefs.
That’s the political spectrum …I used to see it as a line with left on one side and right on the other. After reading and leaving a whole bunch in my own, I now see it as a circle where we all try to basics ourselves and our ideas at the top centre, if we drift too far left or too far right, we’ll slide down and eventually meet our political opposite at the bottom where everyone acts the same anyway.
What you are describing is known as the “horseshoe theory” and is widely rejected by political science.
The actual way to portray such things is a political spectrum, but with 2 or more axes, also known as a “political compass”.
and all are cringe.
true political science is that views can’t be blanketed into red or blue
I like the political compass as a tool for mapping politics beyond left-right (with more dimensions it’s even better, but sparsely populated, which indicates that it is missing some symmetries of politics), but it fails to grasp how politics is not as much a spectrum as it is a tree of ideas that mate with each other and evolve, diverge according to circumstances.
You wouldn’t say that there is a spectrum between a shark and a dolphin, but they share a common ancestor and have similarities driven by their environment.
It’s this nuance of accumulated history that the political compass can oversimplify as a snapshot for people without the time to waste studying political history.
Well yes, but it was never the goal of the political compass to portray the history of beliefs. It is just a way to visualize the current alignment.
Yes, but that’s what I’m saying. Positional closeness sometimes hides a lot of foundational differences and creates the illusion that there is a continuous path between any two points. Eg between tankies and nazis :)
Tankies and Nazis would be both on the outer end of the authoritarian axis, but on completely different ends of the economic axis. If you take 3, 4 or even more dimensions there will barely be any positional closeness left. You can visualize every form of difference in the form of an additional dimension.
I am not advocating specifically for a 2 axis political spectrum. My original comment was just pointing out that the horseshoe theory is bullshit.
They are not on opposite ends. Nazis were not laissez-faire, protectionist actually: On the economic axis they were close to the middle.
Plus I’m not saying they are that close, I’m saying that the line you can draw between them can not be followed continuously, you probably need to take a few loops around other systems like Weimar liberalism, Italian Socialism and feudal Czarism or Marxism to go from one to the other.
I just gave that example because it looks like convergent evolution shaped by similar circumstances despite completely opposite origins.
That’s called the “horseshoe theory” I believe. Some scholars/academics dispute its validity. I don’t feel myself qualified to have a strong opinion about it either way.
As a leftist, we don’t claim these people. Their views are left-coded but inherently antithetical to leftist values. Marxism-Leninism is an attempt (and quite a successful one) to appease revolutionary sentiment by embracing the aesthetics of the left but wrapping it in an authoritarian state. It’s similar to how the nazis called themselves socialists to leech off the socialist sentiment in Germany at the time. These dopes like leftist aesthetics but completely miss the mark on any leftist policy.
We should have a spectrum based on how far they are from agreeing with the human rights charter.
The irony is that if they were merely antifascists that were dunking on racists and transphobes, a lot of people would genuinely appreciate them. The tankie brain-rot ruins that though.
Bro I had them call me a bigot because I dared to suggest trans people aren’t trans when they’ve finished transitioning. They’re just whatever gender they transitioned to. That and, oh god the horror, that trans people in sports is complicated for reasons.
That’s it. That makes me a bigot. Literally accepting them, accepting them makes you a bigot because it isn’t on their terms.
Delusional authists seem to think the world should bend over backwards for them. Surprise surprise, it doesn’t.
One called me an eugenicist because I don’t wear masks any more when I go to public places.
They claim we just don’t like having opinions challenged. No, I’m okay with new ideas, but when they come bundled in a sandwich of insults and mockery, the ideas lose their appeal. I don’t understand why the hexbears don’t get that. It’s always everyone else’s fault that no one wants to talk to them.
“You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the fascists, not join them!”
Although, tbf, I think I’d still be somewhat annoyed at Hexbear style discourse even if it was oriented towards a good cause. Much less annoyed, of course, but “I know you are but what am I?”, Sea Lioning, Gish Galloping, and images of pigs pooping on their own balls are not great for the tone of any community.
Let’s face it, these people are run-of-the mill internet trolls who are working with a politics angle. Their only cause is distruption of online communities for shits and giggles. Treat them like any other troll - block on user level, defederate on instance level.
Just be glad they’re staying on hexbear and not creating alts on other instances.
They have been doing that. Other threads on lemmy world have the nazis admitting to it.
What is with the overuse of the term Nazi? Nazi means a “national socialist”, an ideology that is, among other things, anti-communist.
They say Nazi when they mean authoritarian.
They’re literally the opposite of nazis
They say Nazi when they mean authoritarian.
That’d be lemmygrad then that’d fit that
Found an alt.
Check my post history idiot
Reading these comments that looks exactly like what they are doing.
Because they are
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These are not intellectually serious people. They should not be treated as such.
Lmfao. SJW is just as sensitive as Lemmy.world apparently
