Social media seems to be laughing its ass off about this tragedy, is it because the folks at burning man are perceived as frivolous hippies or something? Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career. Upstanding members of society for sure. I guess all some people know is the sensationalized drugs and sex. A person died. This is a tragedy for an event that brings positivity into the world. Kind of annoyed.
You perception is fabricated and managed by social media, get off that and you’ll be happier
And the loudest participants outside the burn are tech bros and influencers.
This but all the people shitting on burning man
He says unironically.
@[email protected] YMMV. 90% of the people I’ve met who have gone to BM are jerks 🤷♂️
You’re not traveling in the wrong circles. Come to a VC fund dinner in September where junior VCs and 28-year-old “mortgage disrupter” CEOs brag about the air-conditioned plug-and-play camps they spent tens of thousands on, and play wink-wink with each other about all of the fun they had.
I’m a multiple-time BM vet, but it’s mostly an expensive, bureaucratized drug party for tourists now.
It’s perfectly fine to goof on it as it sinks into a physical and moral quagmire. Forgive a poorly scaled analogy, but your logic is the NRA’s logic when there’s a mass shooting: “Now, when everyone’s attention is focused, is not the time to highlight the underlying issues.”
No one hates the luxury plug-n-play campers more than other burners. And the org has even taken steps to crack down on them.
But the only thing older than non-burners hating on burners is burners saying “it was cooler back in the times when I went. It sucks now.”
What years were you there?
What does plug and play mean, that it’s an easy setup? Like a premade camper vs something built by hand for the festival?
You’re not allowed to vend anything at Burning Man. No commercial transactions permitted.
However, there are “adventure travel” companies that will take thousands of dollars of your money, weeks before the event, and then take you there and keep you in luxury the whole time. There are people who set up tents and prepare food and do all the cleaning for you, etc.
This has never been a significant proportion of the people attending. Not even 1%. If nothing else, it’s just too expensive for most people. So if you hear people shitting on this practice, just know that it isn’t broadly representative, and every single other burner out there who is pulling their own weight also hates these camps.
They’re strictly against the values of the community. Self reliance and decommodification are declared expectations. And while there have always been moochers and lameasses to be found, having companies make a business out of this was beyond the pale. The org began taking steps to ensure that these operations don’t get tickets and don’t get into the gate.
Self reliance in the desert, by bringing in all you need for your totally natural camping experience.
Yes you bring what you need. How do you think camping is supposed to work?
Ah thanks, that makes sense.
Strong MORALS?!?!?
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I don’t think that’s the flex you think it is.
I’ve been to burning man. I sit a little bit on both sides of the fence having not felt like I totally fit in there when I went, but also understanding the original mindset behind it.
At this point, I feel the backlash against Burning Man generally is a bit overblown. These folks are at a festival (yeah burners, I called it a festival because that’s the word we use for such things in the English language) and they’re having a good time. Who cares. Most folks who go have good intentions and just want to connect and share something. Many artists work for years and months, for free, to have their pieces featured. Some of that art is incredible! My favorite parts though were literally just an astronomy camp where I looked through a pretty big telescope, held some billion year old meteor fragments in my hand, and listened to hours of lectures from science nerds about the cosmos. I also watched a magic show and got fed bacon by some drunk guy at his camp at 7 am who just wanted company. I personally havent drank at burning man, but it is a party. There are all manner of things at burning man, anything you might want and some things you might not… from talks on how to build a sustainable green energy house to orgy tents to camps offering free ice cream and French toast.
On the other hand, burners can take this shit a bit too seriously and get wrapped up in the experience to the point of being annoying. One guy in my camp scolded me for asking too much about his normal life. He was a tech worker and apparently wanted to pretend that he wasn’t when he was at burning man. How ridiculous to think standing in the desert should mean you can’t talk about your actual life. Another time I pulled out my camera (aka phone) to take a photo of some art and some random chick yelled at me to put my phone away. As if we all bought DSLRs and Polaroids for this event because it’s more authentic that way, and as if the folks that did totally aren’t going to go home and put it on Instagram anyway. There were plenty of women just posing on the playa for their photographer “friends.” I doubt they all just put them in a family photo album for the memories.
That said, Burning Man is a unique event and most folks are just trying to share and view some of the most unique art in the world and connect with others. At my age, I generally find most festivals annoying and burning man has plenty of people to be annoyed at, but it is what it is and frankly I don’t know that it deserves more hate than something like Bonaroo or Coachella. At least Burning Man is full of folks trying to be more than mere passive consumers of entertainment. The mandate is for you to be a participant. God forbid you attend an event where you’re asked to do more than consume, but rather give, anything you want or feel others could benefit from.
If there were 10 other events like burning man, I’d say we should look for the best one, but it is the only event like this. That said, as time goes on, it needs to change. Burning the art has to stop, for instance. Also, some of the more snobbish cultural aspects of the event could die off and I wouldn’t cry.
Not sure I’ll ever go back, but its mostly because I’m too old for this shit and seriously get off my lawn. But, I got the idea and, I won’t hate on others who feel drawn to it, unless they’re insufferable.
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it
Well put. I’ve been twice, 25 years ago and 8 years ago. Some aspects are really cool. Burners can also be insufferable, especially when they make it their entire identity IMO. I will never go back either. Also too old for that shit.
Yeah my SOs mom took us and still goes. We aren’t wealthy and usually get discounts. His mom saves up every year for it. The only thing about it I don’t like is how dirty it is and how hot otherwise it’s really fun and I don’t do drugs or alcohol. Fire shooting giant metal flowerbeds and moving castles.
Aren’t there smaller burning man festivals?
there’s definitely a few different ones in Oregon.
There are many copycats and smaller local versions of the same idea. The idea that it’s the most unique event in the world is marketing BS form the organizers.
These people could have checked a weather forecast and had a lot of advance warning to GTFO. If you go out to the desert without doing anything to ensure your safety, it is mostly your fault if you get screwed. Same reason it’s funny when antivaxxers get measles and when COVID deniers get COVID. Of course it is still sad and the people responsible for spreading those theories should be punished, but it is sort of funny.
Because it’s a festival in the middle of the fucking desert. It’s an utterly ridiculous place to have it and totally extravagant.
They’ll go there claiming there to be going I to some kind of getting away from civilisation, hippie commune thing but the amount of effort and infrastructure to make that environment survivable is ridiculous they actually doing more damage to the environment by being there than if they just stayed in the city.
No one’s glad someone died but their death has nothing to do with the ultimate problem of them all being there, and without being too macabre, people die music festivals all of the time, usually because of drugs. Most music festivals are held in a field, where it’s at least reasonably possible to have basic infrastructure without huge expenses of money and effort.
Burning Man ‘promotes’ anti-consumerism and communal effort, however attending requires significant financial resources and costs that can and do exclude (most) people, it’s living hyprocracy, and an excellent example of capitalism corrupting grass roots ideals. honestly is an absolute joke of a festival.
It’s like $400 for a ticket, and then the rest of the cost is getting there, food, water, shelter, etc. You can pay as little or as much as you want to accomplish those things. Plenty of people drive there and stayed in tents. I don’t see how it’s any different than camping for a few days.
Because I can go camp somewhere for less than $100?
You wouldn’t be at burning man then. It’s obviously a very different experience.
Lmao I’ve camped for free just by pitching a tent off the side of a secluded road.
I was calculating in gear costs too tbh.
check again it was up to $575 this year
Ive never been to burning man. I went to Coachella a LLOOONNGG time ago when it was hippies rolling around in the dust. Coachella ain’t that anymore, it’s instagram rich kids and tech bros. I assume the same thing has happened to burning man.
No it doesn’t. Poor as dirt and go almost every year. So many idiots in this thread have no idea what they’re talking about. Just parroting the media.
What if I told you you could be less poor than dirt if you didn’t buy overpriced festival tickets?
the people I knew who went in the past would usually pool money together in order to get all the camping supplies and gas money.
Clearly, people who classify themselves as “poor as dirt” should not be allowed to spend money on anything they consider fun.
Clearly, if you can afford $400 for a ticket you aren’t “poor as dirt”. But you go on ahead and decide what my message was :]
And yet you spend like Bilbo Baggins?
There is a similar thing not far from where I live. Through an unlucky friend, then the neighbour of their festival grounds, I got to discover the organizers’ ‘ideals’ and ‘ethical and ecological approach’ first hand. In short: it was about money. And more money. And they managed to turn a large reservoir into a dying punch bowl of acid, piss and shit within only a decade. I suspect Burning Man to be the same, considering the ticket prices. The fact that some poor fools with their heart and soul intact save their little money to visit this monstrosity just makes it more sad.
I don’t actively engage in Schadenfreude much, but I do carry a little of it in my heart. If people think flying or driving very far away for Entertainment, and bringing thousands of people into an otherwise quiet place is okay for the wildlife there, and can be in any way an ecological thing, they have understood very little about ecology. And now also ignored by most: the destruction that happens by the thousands of ‘poor humans who just wanted to have fun’ trampling through the last remnants of life in a drought stricken place.
We are not alone on this planet. Invading a place with our idea of fun is very damaging. We can party perfectly well at home. If home happens to be bleak and sad maybe we should work on that first before invading quiet places.
Just as a counterpoint, the area burning man is held in is one of the most ecologically inert places you could go. There’s no vegetation and the only life to speak of is brine shrimp eggs, which are about as threatened as mosquito larvae.
There’s still a lot of trash that gets left behind which can travel with wind, but as far as impact on the land goes, it’s likely significantly less invasive than your local county fair. There’s just nothing out there for them to damage.
This thread is wild. I suspect most of you who seem completely positive you’re right to judge thousands of people and what they deserve would be very indignant and angry if someone lumped you in with a category of people you somehow are tangentially related to.
It’s kind of depressing. I thought Lemmy wasn’t a wasteland of humanity like reddit was, but if I was only going by this thread I’d have to conclude it definitely is not a damned bit better than reddit.
A lot of the time, people hear about Burning Man in the context of which privileged asshole grifter attended it. Elizabeth Holmes, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, etc other billionaires or influencers… And it is described as “tech bros’ favorite party” in the media.
So, given that impression of it, I can see how the default reaction to it failing is unsympathetic.
All these people making piles of assumptions that if Elon Musk went once, everyone there must be a rich piece of shit, just makes me want to go even more just to spite them.
I know there’s a lot I don’t know about it, but what I do know is that for most who go it’s about art and being free to express themselves. Really strange how much hate people have for something they likely haven’t the first goddamned clue about
So strange to me. I have never been but the people I have met who have gone multiple times and loved it have made me think it’s a force for good.
My first exposure was a wedding I DJ’d, most of the people there were friends of the bride and groom from burning man and they are burned (ha) in my memory as the type of people who go. Even the “pastor” who performed the ceremony. Bride is a travel writer, husband is a doctor. All of the bridal party. Extremely intelligent, kind, funny humble humans all. I played EDM music. Best wedding I ever did.
I think a lot of people who dislike burning man are envious of the glamour and money being flaunted there. Lots of beautiful people, nudity, drugs, money, and partying.
Which I can definitely understand. A lot of people would love to be able to just drop what they’re doing and go walk around a desert playing at steampunk dress-up.
Ha… I guess that is what people see. I’ve never seen any firsthand evidence that that’s what it’s like. And there are a lot of dumb frivolous events based around motorcycles, airplanes, firearms, super heroes. I think they are dumb but would never laugh if their event got ruined.
Jealousy isn’t the only reason to feel that way. I don’t trust most rich people, not because I grew up poor, but because I didn’t. And the last thing I want is to watch them cosplay as radical artists, because I know actual radical artists.
I got shit for this in another thread, but I will stand by it- you do not go into the desert without checking the weather report, and if it says rain, light rain, heavy rain, sprinkles, doesn’t matter, you do not go into the desert. These people did not do the most basic bit of safety you could do.
Ok and people rebuild their homes in flood zones, it’s not the criticism that bothers me but when people take joy in it. The posts I’ve seen are just cheap.
I agree, I don’t take joy in it. I just don’t have much sympathy for them.
If you thoroughly understand the situation and feel that way I respect it.
I’ve been out in the desert on more than one film/TV shoot in my life and we were always really diligent to make sure we were going out there when there was absolutely no risk of rain, because you could be in a wash or a dry lake bed and never even know it.
And I’m pretty sure Burning Man is in a dry lake bed.
It’s such highly irresponsible behavior that, like I said, my sympathy is minimal. Also, pretty much everyone is fine. It’s just very unpleasant for them. Someone did die, but they didn’t say why they died. It could very easily have just been ODing considering it’s Burning Man.
Rebuilding a home in a flood zone is a little different. That’s a permanent situation people decide not to change for infrequent floods. Some people might not have the means to uproot their lives to get out of a flood zone. This current situation is a temporary choice for fun. If you do something that involves being outside, understanding the weather is necessary.
By the same token, would you criticize the organizers for holding the festival in a place that can flood, even if in years past it didn’t?
Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career.
I think of two people in my past when I think of Burning Man.
One being my ex who got in trouble for punching his ex girlfriend AT burning man. He had to go to court and she got a restraining order against him. There were also witnesses and he almost got kicked out of school for it. He should have been kicked out of school in my opinion.
Anyway. Him and his friends were super trashy. All people who went to Burning Man.
Then there is this girl I use to work with. She was nice. She was extremely pretty. 10/10 instagram model type, not even exaggerated. She was also super late to everything. I waited two hours for her and her friend to meet up at a cafe. That was the last time we hung out. She really came off as someone who gets away with shit just because she’s considered hot.
Well far be it from me to judge anyone at a music festival but I think for many burning man has some bourgeoisie, fake hippie sorta connotations?
Yep, exactly my confusion…this makes it ok to take joy at what happened? I think the perception is wrong but even if not…it’s fucked up.
When leftists say eat the rich they don’t mean it in a nice way.
Are burning man people rich? Not being a smartass, I’m just trying to understand the perception.
I don’t take joy in suffering of anyone. My only experience of the Burning man festival is on the hilarious episode of “Malcom in the Middle.” Also, rain in the desert is often a mixed blessing
I always think of the Reno 911 episode, that was hilarious as well.
Generally, they’re not. I’d say it’s an inclusive crowd that likes to backbite each other. I don’t particularly love burners, but this level of distain is ridiculous. A lot of art collective types and their patrons.
Appreciate the reminder
You should have your mom check your house for lead paint.
Oh look, I see you gettin a little sass there now 😚 Don’t make me come over there and spank you
who me? i’m just a poor lower class fine art patron.
Not really what I’m saying. If you don’t know the type, you don’t know the type. Bunch of fire spinners and Etsy sellers working middle class jobs.
Higher up you were talking about a travel writer marrying a doctor. Those motherfuckers are rich.
Nuance is a dead concept to an online leftist.
Catch em at a bar and they’re generally better versions of themselves.
Some yes, some no. There is definitely a large swath of tech bros and influencers, but there are also plenty of working-class people there too. My burner group is just a bunch of kink folks from every income bracket, having a good time. It is very art and music heavy, so normally it is a lot of fun seeing the art and mutant vehicles, then hitting up whatever music happened to be nearby. I prefer smaller regional burns, but there is still something to be said about doing Burning Man. It’s on a whole different scale.
I think - correctly or incorrectly - a lot of people perceive the typical Burning Man attendee nowadays as being a rich and/or famous person who is somewhere between indifferent to + amused by the suffering of other people less fortunate than they. And - again, not saying this is correct - they perceive this as being more of an annoying/inconvenient/uncomfortable thing (lots of wallowing in filth, but only 1 death AFAIK) than a bona fide natural disaster; totally different order of magnitude from what just happened in Florida, for example, or Hawaii.
So it’s less serious than a hurricane or flood or whatever in a populated area, and affects much more deserving people; if, heaven forbid, a bomb went off and hundreds of Burning Man attendees died it would be a very different story, and certainly in that case I don’t think any decent person would laugh about it, but a bunch of rich assholes stuck in the mud playing “Survivor” for a week is much more farce than tragedy.
Remember Burning Man 2020-2022 when shit happened?
Remember Fyre festival?
How many times do people have to learn that going out into the middle of nowhere, shit is going to happen?
