So I’m not against wanting a better work/life balance. I’m all for unions, teleworks, paid family leave, etc., but you should have to work. This idea that people should not want to work is stupid and makes this community the laughing stock of the internet.
Socialism is when nobody works.
- Karl “CORAL!” Marx
Let the disabled starve?
Allow for bonded servitude?
Perhaps you might want to elaborate.
No and no? There you go bro
There’s a lot of intersection between the set of folk who believe in obligatory work and who believe in culling undesirables.
Having been called lazy all my life (despite having had lifelong major depression) I’m more than wary of when people like to suggest, as Thessalonians advises The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.
When my symptoms were most severe I was so unwilling to work I spent nine months in my bed, barely able to crawl to the kitchen or bathroom. I had no will to work or play or watch TV, or lift my limbs.
So, yeah when someone opines a work mandate, I get spooked.
Whatever gets you off
The end of work is not the end of labor. The goal of ending work is better described as destroying work as it exists now, with the exploitation and coercion required to make people work.
Then you need a new slogan
There already is. It’s “work reform.”
And yet here we are on “antiwork” talking about how you didn’t consent to work…?
You also need to define the word work. For some theories there is a distinction between work and labor, each having different undertones and nuances.
I’m all for abolishing Work completely, but labour must still be done, and will be done through natural stimulation
Pretty sure in the old days, when there were fewer people, you could just fuck off into the forest and build yourself a cottage. If your feudal lord found out you’d be in trouble, but they didn’t have satellites or whatnot to track you down.
We have this weird unwritten assumption that the cost of technological advancement (esp medical) was our own domestication. That we sacrificed freedom and privacy for health and safety. I wonder if that’s really the case, or if it’s some bullshit post hoc justification
You’d still have to work for your living in said scenario.
Nobody is gonna bring you chicken tendies three times a day in your hidden cottage.
Uncontacted hunter gathered tribes work, it’s right there in the description. Not 40 hours a week, sure, but you can live a much simpler lifestyle in the wilderness on a similar work ethic.
Labor is an intrinsic requirement of human life.
Working for your own reasons is fundamentally different than laboring and having part of what you produce taken from you by an employer
Those are both subcategories of work. You still work in either, it’s just in one case you get everything but you must do everything and in the other case you don’t get what you worked for but you instead get luxuries from society.
You can work for your own reasons right now. But you don’t have the right to just grab any piece of land and confiscate it for your own use. There are too many of us for that.
you don’t have the right to just grab any piece of land and confiscate it for your own use
Maybe not just any piece of land, but there are enormous swaths of empty land in this world that OP can fuck off to, if they’re that determined to not be a member of a society. Of course, they’re not interested in that because pioneering is to much work. 🙄
It’s the kind of work that makes you feel fulfilled and accomplished though. I bet OP would be better off mentally in 2 years if he fucked off to alaska and built himself a cabin. Hell, I bet I would too.
This corporate wage slavery is so fucking detrimental to my well-being. I want to solve challenges and make decisions of consequence. I want to have agency in my life.
I hate the corporate grind too. So I only work for businesses small enough that I’m on a first name basis with the owner.
It’s all very romantic living in a cabin in the wilderniss but there’s a reason no one that has a choice lives that way.
I bet OP would be better off mentally in 2 years if he fucked off to alaska and built himself a cabin. Hell, I bet I would too.
Go ahead then. What’s stopping you?
Land is expensive and you still have to pay taxes on it.
There are co-op/commune options but that’s probably not what OP is looking for either. Unfortunately or not “no man is an island” really is true and we’re all inherently interconnected. We all share the same resources and space, and should all have input into how those resources and spaces are used.
TBH if someone wants to go out into the wilderness and survive with little/no creature comforts I think that should be perfectly fine and they should be allowed space to do that; I also think healthcare and some sort of UBI/food allowance should exist so that a person won’t starve or die of an easily prevented disease, or to make sure the person really wants to go be alone and isn’t just experiencing an untreated illness.
By all means if you want a Corvette or that lifted F150 you should have to work for it but if you’re happy eating squirrel and beans and reading books from the public library? You should be allowed to do that.
I’m already too dead inside to muster up the energy
Thats why we should adhere to the principles of public ownership of land. Which used to be the case dating back to prehistoric mines shared between different factions and groups.
Examples of this are all over in the past and some rural communities but all because some powerful duts decided that human kind is inherently selfish and everyone would automatically overuse the land breaking the system. The example given is a farmer who increasingly claims a bigger part of a field to get a bigger flock of sheep or orchards.
All of it completely ignores that companies sucking the planets resources dry to the bone for profit while a farmer in a rural community has no need to increase flock if not to make profit. Proper use of public land is in the interest of everyone.
Not saying you’re wrong, I’m just pointing out that private ownership of farmland was probably encouraged as a way to incentivize farmers - work the land yourself, do it for your self as number one beneficiary, you’re more likely to work better, and not clock out (as much as possible for something like farming). Whereas people working state owned land might just say ‘feck it, not my problem’, picking the path of least resistance as it were. It’s entirely possible that companies exploiting this came about as an unintended (initially) consequence.
There’s also a situation currently where multiple small land owners rent out their land to be worked by a single well-equipped group of farmers and get paid on the yield minus whatever labour costs. This is in order to combat the inefficiency of working your own small plot of land with less powerful machinery or avoiding to invest too much in your own equipment (farm machinery is very expensive). Now the fairness of that trade-off is still questionable, but probably more than the current overall exploitation, if you have trustworthy folk.
Back to your point, human beings are incredibly selfish. You either do it for yourself and yours, or are taken advantage of by somebody doing just that. It’s always the interest of everyone, it’s just the definition of ‘everyone’ that differs
Ideally, I think public land should not be owned by anyone, not even the state. Land belongs to whomever makes use of it (and no, making use of it does not mean fencing it up and letting weeds grow because it’s not profitable) and that may very well change from year to year.
But then you’re gonna have to pay taxes to fund the military industry regardless. But at least you get more than the crumbs of your work
What was invented was unemployment and underemployment, both of which are unnecessary.
Wrong, people do bring me whatever sort of food I ask for, and I don’t have to work for it. That’s because I’m a successful landlord and business owner, so maybe you should stop complaining about having to work and just become successful like me and then you will realize the truth, nobody has to work if they don’t want to. Just be a success and you can enjoy a life of leisure.
It’s a good point, perhaps we were freer before. Then again, 90% of the European population were basically slaves during the dark and middle ages, and I also enjoy not dying from dysentery.
Have you ever died from dysentery to compare? Maybe you’d enjoy it more than you think.
I’d like to try some death, please.
I’d like my death on the side please, I’ll have it later at home.
You could try. But there’s 2 problems with that. Firstly surviving on your own is extremely difficult. Subsistence farming is hell and without a community often ends in death after a single drought or bad crop.
And secondly the medieval era didn’t have that much empty, unclaimed land that could support either farming or hunting. There were farming communities everywhere there was open space. And old forests in Europe are pretty much entirely man controlled by this point. Poaching was a serious crime because of population control and logging was also controlled.
What I’m saying is, no man is an island and very few could survive as one. There’s a reason we developed society.
It’s not just bullshit.
Soon after we invented agriculture we began to lose survival skills, and it got progressively worse until we reached the point of grocery stores.
This was our choice. We stopped roaming to stop and grow, harvest, and store grain to be sure we had food stocks in reserve for low yield months. This gave us time to create and learn which led to civilisation.
Before agriculture, we were no more than bands of maybe 50, probably territorially killing each other on discovery much like Chimps do.
I mean there’s a lot of wilderness and open space in the US. No one is stopping you from going out there and starting from scratch. Go ahead and do it
There’s the tiny problem of me not being American though.
Yeah. Dunno about elsewhere but while you can totally set up camp and do whatever, the local government here in Sweden will come with machinery and tear it down if you don’t have sufficient permits or own the land.
Hell even if you own the land there may be codes preventing you from setting up shelter without the right permits.
Du råkar inte vara från Halland eller?
Nope. Ursprungligen från Stockholm. Bott i Sörmland större delen mitt liv, flyttar till Östergötland om ett tag.
You did not specify that. So how was I supposed to know?
You weren’t. Don’t assume that everyone lives in the US by default.
Life is based on assumptions. It’s a good assumption to assume people online speaking English is from America
No, it is a terrible assumption. English is the de facto lingua franca (wow, four non-English words on a row) of the world, and specially on the Internet.
Ok
Ah yes. USA defaultism. Never fails to entertain.
Ok
Yes they are, moron.
Taxes are hardly optional, and they WILL punish you for seeking independence.
Yeah, if that’s an option then I respect people who do that, but if you want the comforts of modern society then you need to contribute.
Imo anti work is about pushing back on the ridiculous expectations of companies, and ensuring that employees receive some of the benefits of automation to ease the load on them.
This tweet strikes me as the “but I want everything for freeee!!!” person who makes anti work look bad. Like that idiot Reddit mod who went on Fox News or whatever news station it was.
The original anti work community on Reddit was more about the abolition of work, before being co-opted by work reformists. It wasn’t about just “pushing back”, but about abolishing the modern concept of wage labor under capitalism.
Money doesn’t need to exist, so your complaint about them just wanting things for free is ludicrous and strikes me as capitalist apologia.
I recommend reading The Abolition of Work to better understand the concept. At the very least, it would allow you to form actually compelling arguments against the idea so that you don’t have to continue showing your ignorance.
Yeah I don’t mind working honestly, but I’d love to be able to live as well. Everything revolves around work, and there’s this constant race for improvement and efficiency. There won’t ever be a enough, and that makes me sick.
At some point I’d like to live too. If we’ve gotten so fucking efficient why can’t we cut down the amount of hours of work needed?
No instead we build machines that can perform creative endeavours so all the writers, artists, and the like are freed up to do menial labour instead.
I don’t argue the benefits of society but I still hate it. It’s like an abusive relationship, codependent and toxic. Ugh.
If you are more efficient then you probably need to work at hiding that from your employer and finding a way to spend the hours you save doing something beneficial for yourself. You employer pays you for a certain amount of output per hour, if you can do 8 hours of expected output in 1 then that’s your business.
If you are more efficient then you probably need to work at hiding that from your employer and finding a way to spend the hours you save doing something beneficial for yourself
I can get away with this at like office jobs but if you work on your feet, I don’t see that happening. I never had extra time in the service industry.
Yeah there isn’t much room for hiding efficiency and repurposing recovered hours there, maybe pivot into management?
Yeah, it’s just about pushing back on ridiculous expectations.
If you work and do your part you should get shelter, medical care and all the other necessities, as well as time to live your life. Then, if you work hard you get a bigger house and more luxury items etc.
But we’ve ended up in a situation where you have to work hard and you don’t even necessarily get the basics anymore. Home ownership is a pipe dream for a lot of people in my country.
Meanwhile, people like the one in the tweet just want stuff for free. They don’t actually want a society where people get what they deserve, really they just wish they were born to a rich family and don’t have to work.
Meanwhile, people like the one in the tweet just want stuff for free. They don’t actually want a society where people get what they deserve, really they just wish they were born to a rich family and don’t have to work.
I gave you an upvote cause I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but a lot of people in the comments seem to be applying a whole lot of meaning to that tweet that isn’t really there.
All it says it that they didn’t consent to the bullshit we currently deal with. Isn’t that what the anti-work movement is? We’re all sick of the 9-5 bullshit 40+ hour a week grind in order to live?
I mean… just looking at it I agreed cause yeah, I didn’t fucking consent to this shit.
That doesn’t magically mean I don’t want to work ever. It means I want to work in different ways.
So, people with disabilities that prevent labor shouldn’t get shelter, medical care or other necessities? Do you not see how tying peoples worth to their productive capacity has inherent eugenic arguments associated with it?
If we’re going to discuss doing ones part, should we discuss the uncompensated labor which modern society depends on? Should we define what counts as contributing in a way that encompasses these forms of labor? Should we be counting Exxons corporate lawyers as doing their part when they lobby to prevent meaningful actions to combat climate change?
Our society has a profoundly perverse rewards system, which results in nearly inverted compensation compared to contribution. Pedagogy is inarguably one of the single most necessary and important aspects of society, yet educators are compensated poorly and their work devalued.
Antiwork isn’t just “if I work hard I should be rewarded”, it’s “One shouldn’t have to sacrifice their body and mind in service of subsistence wages” and also “my value is not determined by the profits I can produce for a private corporation.” And even “Uncompensated labor is a form of exploitation upon which all economic activity depends, and should be treated with the foundational importance it has, rather then dismissed as valueless or insisted upon as is often done through traditional gender roles”.
Seems like you’re looking for an argument and using me as a straw man, considering I’ve said none of that and actually agree with the points you’re making.
If you work and do your part you should get shelter, medical care and all the other necessities, as well as time to live your life.
Someone’s part is whatever they’re able to do. If they have disabilities that mean they can’t contribute in a work environment then they’ve essentially already done their part.
There needs to be a base level that means everyone is protected and has what they need. And in an ideal world I’d like to see people like teachers and doctors being among the highest paid/rewarded for what they do.
“Yet you partecipate in society. Curious! I am very intelligent.”
False equivalence.
Not doing any work is not improving society
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Actually, the person in the tweet is saying they don’t want to work. If you go based off that, then they don’t want to be a part of any society, they just want everything for free.
If you want to be part of society, then you work and contribute. Otherwise, you’re just a leech. Whether you’re a billionaire or a poor one.
Actually, the person in the tweet is saying they don’t want to work
where did they say that?
Yeah no, that’s actually literally illegal. You might be able to get away with stealth camping, but you can’t just set up a homestead in a fucking forest or something. That shit would be knocked down, you’d be fined, and then you’d be jailed when you fail to pay the fine.
No there isn’t; it’s all claimed by various people or national parks or something.
The idea that one can go out to the woods and build a new society unhindered is pure fantasy.
That would be Freedom ©®™
You absolutely could try. It would be fine until the already established hierarchies feel you’re becoming a threat to their monopoly of power. Then they will come up with some reason to go out and shoot you or lock you up.
But I do think most of the people who say shit like they want to live in a wilderness commune would last two weeks before giving up and going back to running water, paved roads and grocery stores.
I mean I guess you can go all Fountainhead and just live in the woods. Of course, you’ll probably die if you don’t do any work, but you definitely have a choice.
do you think it is possible to make a genuine choice under such coercion?
I think that when you deny individuals agency by assuming they are brainwashed, then it’s difficult to have democracy.
i don’t see how this answers my question
And I think when you don’t butter your bread, the sandwich tastes shit and dry
Now, are we finished making irrelevant statements?
You should get a bread maker.
No, you actually can’t do that. You’ll go to jail when they catch you. Unless you have a shitload of money to buy property and cover the taxes on it for the rest of your life, you can’t just leave society and live in the wilderness and expect not to be persecuted for it.
It’s the way of the world. To eat, to live, work must be done. The most fair is way to divide up the work which must be done is by capacity. The fruits of those labors should be distributed first according to need, second according to whomever produced them.
This is not how things are done now, of course. Now, the neediest work hardest, and the fruits of that labor flow to those who have the least need.
Human nature, regardless of political systems, dictates that one and their family must provide trade-worthy value to receive trade-worthy value. There are plenty of exceptions to that thanks to charity (at any scale) and social policies that allow for some to provide little trade-worthy value and still receive essential benefits (for example, those with disabilities). But if there were an option to provide no trade-worthy value and receive completely satisfying goods, accommodations, and freedoms in return, then productive people would naturally feel foolish for spending time working any more than they like to. There is some point where there wouldn’t be enough people to maintain the benefits for the non-workers. Although people would offer to work as good will, labor and supply shortages would be far more frequent or constant. So should we allow the option, but only a limited amount so that the threshold of value-produced to value-consumed is never met? It’s unlikely that there would be good relations between the class of people in society that would be gifted with that option and those that aren’t.
Does “human nature” “dictate” that nuclear families are a central organizational structure within society, or are there plenty of exceptions, in the sense of societies following systems and cultures very different from the one under which you live?
How I see this problem is that we aren’t given to tools to help us decide how we want to live our lives. Work sucks and is a waste of time. Contributing to society is valuable and something I want to do.
I also want to do that. I do not want five of my days eaten per week in service of that though. I want to have a life.
I actually think we should work towards a 20-hour work week or less. Our kids and civic duties suffer for our lack of time and energy, making for intergenerational mental illness and an general civic incompetence (facilitated by the gutting of public education programs)
That’s the goal. But I can’t reject the fact that I need to work. It’s gotta happen. And I also don’t want to be depressed all the time. My comment is kind of about learning how to keep doing what I need to do without being sad and or angry about it all the time.
I’ve always been envious of those people who grew up knowing what they wanted to do with their lives and then they did it. It seems like what we want is incongruent with what is available. It’s like they were born into something that was designed for them, but I think at least part of it is parenting and education. Doesn’t help that our world is kind of fucked up though. Hard to close my eyes to that and be excited about choosing a career. That and* we’re kind of serfs.
During the 2020 epidemic and lockdown bunches of people were furloughed and we all got to acquaint ourselves with extended cabin fever. Many of us picked up new hobbies and some of those could ne monetized and were better than the (often toxic, underpaid) dayjobs.
It was a conspicuous phenomenon now called the great resignation. Our capitalst masters compain how no one wants to work, but it’s evident to the rest of us that it’s the toxic underpaid conditions we don’t like, and we’d be glad to work if conditions were better.
I suspect laziness isn’t a real character flaw or deadly sin so much as the desire to not suffer as we work. (There is avolition, a symptom of mental illnes such as major depression, and this is what drives people to couch-potaro for weeks or months at a time.)
I think that modern work is something done to us, as a form of violence. We’re told to go here, do this, and in return we get just enough to get by. Humans are definitely not lazy, but we do have a problem with slavery.
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Actually, that one’s on me guys, sorry. I just said we were all okay with it and honestly thought you’d all be fine with it…? Anyway, my bad.
Good lord this community is cringe most of the time.
Yup, they want to live in fantasy land where they benefit from other people’s work, but do none themselves. They’re still children, but most of them will eventually grow up.
The rest will become communists, which is something I’ve been seeing a lot of on Lemmy.
Or you could try reading what was actually said properly, rather than making up something different that wasn’t said by anyone except you.
So spot on, dude.
You obviously don’t have the slightest idea what communism is
Let’s not forget that communists do work. Not saying you said otherwise, just a reminder.
Someone should tell the wannabe communists that they’d still have to work.
Who let the boomers in here? Why are we talking about communists?
Yeah the 40+ hours of manual labor I do producing 3 $25,000 machines in a week while being paid $1000 is totally not work at all.
Critiquing a system of exploitation is only possible if one is lazy and worthless, not something that typically and historically comes from those most oppressed under a given system.
Refusal to blindly submit to coercive hierarchies is a sign of immaturity, while blind obedience to that system makes you a real man. Only people who blindly accept their and the exploitation of their friends and family are adults.
What’s the plan then?
So go start your own business producing these $25,000 machines if it is that easy. Go on then. Clearly you have everything figured out. Your are supposedly worth $75k a week but you’re only getting paid $1k a week. Start your own company and even if you have yourself 10x the salary, you’d still have one of the most profitable companies on the planet.
If it’s that easy, then why aren’t you doing it?
Is it maybe because there are dozens of other people involved in building these machines? It is because the labor to build something doesn’t cover the cost to design and engineer it. And test it. And logistics. And the costs for any regulator certification these machines must go through.
Loving hearing people with all the answers only to find out they really have no answers.
Exactly. This is what I chose to do, I took a small loan of seven million dollars from my father and started my own business, and that’s what everybody should do in my opinion.
Hey dum-dum, people get real bank loans to start their businesses literally every single day. If the commies in here spent 1/2 of the time and effort to write snarky comments as they did a business plan or on educating themselves and learning a skill, they wouldn’t be stuck living in their mommy’s basement making barely enough to survive.
I was agreeing with you! If they weren’t such dum dums they could be a success story like me and then we could all sit around and do nothing instead of working. It’s not hard!
I have built my own business, however it was impossible to run equitably under current structures of regulation, so I sold it.
But no, there are not dozens of people involved in building the machines at our 10 person company. There are 2. There are 2 involved in designing them, and three involved in ongoing support for the units, a cost which is itself covered entirely through service contracts. The majority of our revenue is taken by the corporation that bought the company with the entire crew together, including management, receiving less than 50% of the money made post costs for our efforts. Our revenue supports the multi billion dollar stock buybacks the owning corporation does each year, and the $4 million dollar salary of their chief executive.
You obviously don’t work in manufacturing, because regulatory certification costs are one time payments done at the inception of each model, not an ongoing cost for each unit.
Sure thing buddy, if any of this was true any bank on the planet would happily write you a loan to start a competing business. One where you could theoretically undercut this big bad evil corporation by many thousands.
Instead you’re either too lazy or just plain full of shit and want to mouth off online. Or, again, this is far more complicated than what you see in your tiny corner of the bigger process.Your schtick might work for some of your fellow commies out there, but it ain’t working with me.
You can believe what you want. I’d offer to show the articles of dissolution filed with the state when we dissolved our corporation after the sale , but I’m not really willing to dox myself just because you choose not to believe me. And no, it’s unlikely a bank would finance me a loan in an entirely different industry to my previous business just because. Hell, we didn’t take any loans to build the business in the first place, straight capital only, no outside investment. We had a specific amount of runway to get up and running, and we did so.
Maybe because have a gigantic money head start is basically a must and not something that the mere mortal can have because of the actual thing that they are criticizing it?
You can be rich, put that money somewhere where someone “manages” it for you, fuck off to a desert island for 5 years and when you come back you are richer than before. And you didn’t do jack shit for that money. Do you think that is fair? And most importantly where do you think that money “is coming from”? The answer is that it is skimming from all the hardworking people that generate profit for the company while only getting paid a small fraction of that.
Good lord you have the mind of a 6 year old who has no idea how the world works.
Great comment
Right back at you
LOL
holy fuck you’re clueless.
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I’m in a community labeled anti work and every other post is about some new lazy ass who wants endless handouts, and I should waste my time explaining anything to the commies in here?!
Complete strawman. No one wants to sit around and do nothing.
Hold my beer.
Strawman? You either want to work or you don’t. Which one is it?
Of course I want to work. Saying people just don’t want to work is absurd.
Saying people just don’t want to work is absurd.
I’m glad you understand the problem
Your assumption that the antiwork movement is just made of lazy assholes who don’t wanna do anything? Yeah, that’s a problem.
the antiwork movement is just made of lazy assholes who don’t wanna do anything?
It’s not an assumption. It’s literally in the name. It’s literally the entire content of OP’s submission. Where do you think you are?
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fucking about and doing whatever I want!
That doesn’t sound like doing nothing ;)
I love to sit around every once in a while, nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I sit in quiet contemplation for days at a time, other times I just go golfing or fishing or take a vacation to Bora Bora to sit on the beach and drink. If you want to do these things it’s not hard, start a successful business or make a smart real estate investment!
If you want to do these things it’s not hard, start a successful business or make a smart real estate investment!
Exactly!
Nice trolling
So they will stay children forever because that is what a communist is someone who is emotionally stunted
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to live without working. I already do this as a landlord and a business owner/investor. Maybe when you grow up you will be successful like me and understand the virtues of not grinding away all day to make somebody else rich, instead, let other people make you rich.
I don’t get all the people who are here that clearly aren’t anti-work.
like why are they here? Isn’t this a community for anti work and not against it?
why are they here?
Because it shows up in my home feed as “active”?
“Stop interrupting my echo chamber”
IMHO there’s two main groups
-
“Wage labor is inherently unfair, we need to build a new economic system.”
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“fuck work amirite guys?”
those groups definitely over lap though.
Significantly though? You can find many groups with an overlap that doesn’t really mean anything.
In this case, I am in the group that over laps which is why I mentioned it.
Same here, I think both venting and discussion of solutions are helpful.
Totally agree.
The former moved to “workreform”, at least on Reddit. The latter group are the dog walkers that stayed put.
Work reform are liberals who don’t want a new economic system. For example they want a higher minimum wage, with wage labor still existing. Maybe they’re a little bit of the latter, when it’s not too impolite.
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0Nobody wants to toil. The profits funnel directly to owner pockets who do next to nothing to operate the company.
Honestly, I have more of an anarchist mindset. You shouldn’t have to work, at least not a job. I’d rather build my own house and grow my own food. Everything I do directly benefits me and my family, not the rich. But I need money to buy the land…
Whether you like it or not, you live in a civil society. You are not alone, which is why we have rules on how we interact with eachother. I guart you, take away those rules and it’ll get a lot worse for all of us. Calling yourself an anarchist at 20 is fun and edgy, doing it at 30 is just anti social and ego centric and at 40 it’s just plain sad.
You have to work because we all do. You have to eat, use electricity, drink water. Why do you thinnei we pay taxes?
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In general, I agree with you and I understand what you mean. But building your own house and growing your own food - don’t underestimate that. It is an amazing idea (and feeling) to work for your own direct benefit. But it is an awful lot of work. My uncle in law lives like that in Ukraine. They have a small house in the middle of a nowhere village. The only money they get is from biking (!) with some of their crops to the next town to sell them. That’s a nice life but they have to work hard work from dawn to late evening every single day. No sick days. No weekends. No evenings off. No running water. No warm showers. No plumbing. You poop outside, in the cold, in a little wooden house with a bucket. They kind of chose to live like this (his other siblings moved away, he didn’t want to give up their parents’ land) but it is a hard life that tears on you. It breaks your bones, literally. As much as we all hate working for corporate here - for obvious reasons that demand all the support we got - be cautious of over-romantisizing this kind of self-sufficient lifestyle in the countryside.
I’d like to have my own house built, not just a wooden cabin. Run off of well water for water, and solar panels for electricity. I know that with the way that Modern Industrial Society is, I’d have to buy the land, couldn’t just off grid it.
I actually want to become an android developer within this society. I’m aware that my career wouldn’t define me at all, and I don’t really care about titles. I get to work remotely which makes being in the country easier, and would make decent money to buy the land and equipment needed, and maybe get some degree of help.
Alaska is your best bet, just dont vote like you do in continental america (if you are american). Alaska and the interior of Canada are the last true frontiers in the west.
I just don’t think anyone agreed to waste 40 hours of their life at this.
When did antiwork get filled with bootlickers?
For the literal sense, yes, I do remember consenting work for livelihood. Now, that work actually is being made into servitude, I don’t remember. Livable work is really scarce, servitude and selling-out isn’t.
Why the FUCK do you think you’re entitled to get the free labor of bakeries working hard to make bread, farmers farming to create food, and people building technology to make your life easier?
No, you don’t have to work. Go live in the forest and farm your own food. Maybe then when a lion attacks you you’ll realize the value of modern civilization.
Because if FOSS exist he imagines that also people would like to do real actual work just for fun!
That’s true, but the whole point of technology and modern civilization was to make us lazy and somehow people are working even more? Except for like 5 people.
Most people in the west can work less, if they are willing to sacrifice comfort, material goods etc.
Most people can live without teeth and with cancer killing them, while eating cheap ramen for the whole month staring at a wall, sitting naked on the floor, in a house without a roof and walls.
You ARE working much less. Have you tried working in a farm for 12 hours a day? You wanna compare serving coffee in Starbucks with farming for months then losing it because there’s frost?
Who TF is working on a farm 12 hours a day? What’re you watching grass grow? My mom’s family has a farm and I have worked there before and it’s pretty fun actually and all the usual work is done by 2 pm. Feeding animals, cutting grass for them using a spinny wheel thingy. Getting eggs from chickens, milking cows, ploughing the fields is done by tractors and only thing you have to do is throw seeds around. And it’s not like you’re doing the same thing for 8 hours straight. So yeah I’d say it’s more work. I’d much prefer doing that over graphic design for 8 hours. As for the frost, well, just grow shit where it’s not cold I guess.
Im pretty sure 95% of farmers would aggressively disagree with you. Lots of farmers in my country burn out from over working. Unless you are talking about a hobby farm for personal use
Unless if they’re slave farms you’re talking about. Then i haven’t seen any other farms like that, maybe it’s just a country to country thing. And it’s not a hobby farm it’s a proper farm, they sell milk eggs and and the field produce. Even got mango trees. Sure it’s a lot of work but it’s not overwhelming and they take a lot of breaks and even chat with neighbours for hours. And my grandma’s 80 and still milks the cows and walk them in the field and stuff. Not because someone tells her to, but because she likes it.
