Everywhere you browse, people have such strong opinions about everything and are so toxic or extremely negative. You start playing a game, want to check the forums or something and most of the posts are people being mean to each other. You open social media to keep in touch with people that you’d like to maintain a certain level of contact and there’s always some people that are always complaining about every single thing.
I see myself more and more closing myself into a bubble which makes me appreciate Beehaw much more. I know I am guilty of being taken away by the toxicity and sometimes replying things I wouldn’t be proud of but since I joined Beehaw I see myself policing myself more and more focused on being better.
Just a quick rant, I currently started playing Baldur’s Gate 3 and I am honestly pissed off on the fact people can’t give feedback without being rude or “gamers” just shitting on developers because they are stans of another game. I wanted to be active on the forum and comment on bugs and such because I want the game to be better but it is so depressing reading people being awful so often.
Why are we so shitty to each other? I’m so tired.
Edit: Pardon me if I used weird terms or grammar errors, english isn’t my first language
Edit2: removed specifics
I’ve been starting to reduce my “internet footprint” especially on large media sites. (twitter, reddit, youtube, etc). I’ve been deleting a lot of my posts that dont have important info, and reducing my time spent on them. I’m doing it to improve my mental health. hopefully.
My Beehaw almost ALWAYS loads up without me being logged in. So I don’t see upvotes n can’t comment or upvote. I like it that way sometimes; helps from being 💯% impulsive
why are we so shitty to each other?
I am honestly pissed off on the fact people can’t give feedback without being pricks or “gamers” just shitting on developers because they are Starfield stans
Painting with such broad strokes about opinions you don’t like and writing them all collectively off as “pricks” and “starfield Stans” is contributing to the current state of discourse that you are lamenting.
I was just giving examples. English is not my native language so I did my best to diversify on adjectives. It takes like 5 seconds to find a comment anywhere you go where the person is just being straight up toxic and there’s no good intent on the post. I don’t care about the opinions, I am talking about the intent.
Edit: typo
Intentional or not, the phrasing is very hostile and dismissive, just fyi. No worries just pointing it out.
Sorry but that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I wasn’t trying to sound hostile I am just extremely frustrated and sad right now.
deleted by creator
It’s doesn’t help with people “tone policing” and picking holes in your general argument. It just adds to the feeling of hostility.
Oh, look. Here comes the pedantry and down votes…
I honestly started crying, but that’s just me being pathetic and a sponge to stuff people say on the internet :(
Definitely not my intention and I apologize for upsetting you.
It’s all right, I was just extremely vulnerable due to the amount of exposure (which caused me to write this post) so I just got caught of guard, but I did my best to not be defensive
deleted by creator
these are the valuable interactions that make the large amount of work running the instance worthwhile :)
You are not pathetic! Having emotions about things and feeling your feelings is not pathetic.
It’s definitely easier being on and participating on the internet when you have a ‘thicker skin’ and aren’t too much of a sponge emotionally, but I don’t think it should be that way. I’m sorry that it does tend to be that way. It sucks.
Having feelings about people saying negative things about a post you made where you poured out your thoughts and feelings and opened yourself up is not pathetic. It would probably be beneficial to you (& to everyone, not just you) to try and not take stuff like these internet comments so personally and so hard, but I know that’s a lot easier said than done, and being this way is not a fault.
I may be projecting, because I’m definitely this way, but it sounds like you may have a habit of being too hard on yourself? I know I do! I’m a bit of an emotional sponge like you described yourself as, too, so I totally get it. We both could benefit from giving ourselves some more grace and understanding, like I tend to do for others and I’m guessing you do, too, and trying not to be so hard on ourselves. It doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you/us, though. It’s so easy to be this way, especially on the mean wild west that is the internet!
I’m probably all over the place with this but I hope it all makes sense.
Just to reiterate: you’re not pathetic. Feeling that way and being that way is not pathetic. You deserve to be treated with kindness and understanding, both from yourself and from others. Some of these commenters seem to be taking your post and comments without reading them in good faith…which not only isn’t cool, but Beehaw has rules/guidelines about doing our best to take people’s comments and arguments and stuff in good faith, darn it!
What you were saying was perfectly clear to me and I totally get and understand where you’re coming from and what you’re getting at and I agree because I’ve seen the same thing.
I hope this all makes sense. I can get a little rambly and all over the place, especially when I’m emotional, and seeing your comment saying how hurt you were and then also being so hard on yourself for it makes my heart hurt for you! I totally empathize and understand. If I can clarify anything, please feel free to let me know!
You’re not pathetic and your feelings (in the comment and the post) are totally understandable and valid here. Please try to be more kind and positive to yourself, just like how in your post you were saying people should be less negative and more kind and positive on forums and internet stuff. You deserve kindness! I’m sending big internet hugs your way :)
(My apologies again for this long, rambly, all over the place, novel of a comment, lol!)
What a lovely, high effort comment. Thanks for taking time to respond so earnestly.
This was great, thank you! Yeah, I just wanted to vent a little bit because I was being really overwhelmed by toxic things when I just wanted to browse.
I am extremely hard on myself, haha. This is one of the things I tried to work on during counseling so I have huge triggers with rejection and such (yup, it’s awful).
I really appreciated your message, really! 🥺
It’s not “tone policing” to point out vitriolic tone in a discussion about how people have a bad tone with each other. It’s directly relevant to the discussion. Their word/tone was rude while calling for people to be nice.
deleted by creator
TL;DR… /jk
However, there are two sides to every coin: thought-out discussions are one side, extensive rambling diatribes are the other. There is value in being concise in one’s arguments, when possible without compromising precision.
In any case, even scientific papers have an abstract, extensive laws have a rationale, so IMHO it makes sense for a series of paragraphs to have a TL;DR, or some other way of structuring the content —maybe through headers, or highlighting key elements in bold, or incises like this one— in order to let the reader skip over what they’re not interested in.
It’s good to have markdown,
Twitter𝕏 could try some.Lots of Rage bait out there, or people purposely posting things and making it sound slightly wrong, knowing people will comment too
One of the things that really pisses me off is the current state of Steam. People realized they can bait to get lots of clown awards, which rewards them with a lot of points. On one hotfix update post, someone got over 200 clown awards.
It’s already quite easy to forget we are interacting with other humans when we are behind screens and keyboards
I honestly hate that people do this. Maybe its because I work online in customer service and I chat with people online so I always know that I’m talking to a real person - but even before I worked online, I always assumed I was talking to a real person on the other end.
It’s wild to me that people become so incredibly inconsiderate that they don’t even think they’re talking to a human and instead interpret it as “oh I’m just arguing an idea” yeah, you’re arguing an idea with a HUMAN.
Sometimes I catch people doing that because they’ll respond to me like I’m someone else and I have to be like, hey no, I’m not that person, I’m my own person and you are in fact talking to me now. A person who will react to things being said. Cause you know, human.
I think most people aren’t toxic, but the toxic ones always stick out. If you get 20 normal comment replies and one that was rude, you’ll probably remember that rude one more.
Same goes for anything that people have strong opinions about online - especially politics. The most extreme, hostile, and bizarre takes get a lot of attention and float to the top, which makes it seem like the majority opinion, when most people aren’t like that.
In the german reddit and lemmy we circle jerk about the forums of old, because of their toxic culture. E.g. things like “use the search function, this has been answered a thousand times” “just google it” “you didn’t provide the exact specs of your computer, even if it is just a software issue” and so on.
I think it was easier back then, because we did not have the huge networks like facebook or youtube, where there is no sense of community. But you still had to finde the nice communities and the vileness was always there. It was just easier to steer clear from
It made interactions easily available and there is no “need” to preserve etiquette, because there is no accountability to the community. I also have the feeling that the modern internet, smartphones and strong hardware made people too entitled to things just working and being available at every moment. So we develop back to being toddlers that are quicker to throw a tantrum.
I feel like as a gamer the older internet communities were heavily influenced by abrasive and antisocial gamers and message boards like 4chan and something awful were sort of like a bottom layer of internet forums. The big message boards where like a level 0 of internet memes and culture that would then float up to the more mainstream layers of the internet.
The late 90s and 00s were also just an edgy time for “edgy” humor and edgy behavior and boundary pushing behavior and while some had a talent for towing the line while still being funny or thoughtful, we’re talking a younger internet driven by mostly teens, tweens, and socially awkward young adults so we get the standard newgrounds flash video.
There were also small close knit communities of friends from around the world and happy parts of the internet, and more wholesome spaces, but the poison was already floating around the water in the well even before algorithms and bots were introduced to further enhance the churn and toxic behavior.
I think a good example of this is message board discussion on gamefaqs in the 00s. A few steps above 4chan in terms of attitude the Next Gen Gaming board was mostly just trolls trolling trolls and people arguing in bad faith. The general style of argument would be to quote and reply like every sentence in your post instead of just having like a good faith discussion.
damn do you remember Albino Black Sheep?
Those forums are how I eventually ended up on 4chan back in the day.
Thats a name I havent thought of in some time. I remember it more for its flash games and videos though I never browsed the forums.
Right? Every now and then I find someone who remembers but most people don’t remember the forums. I was super active on the forums there back in the day.
IMO, there’s a lot of factor playing part in this. (Copying from my fedi personal fedi acc!)
-
A lot of people lack control of the real world situation that happen to them and some are desperate for the feel of being in control enough to harm other people just to feel like ‘I’m in control’
-
A lot of people do not have a way to properly deal with their anger and frustration. They only teach to ‘hold or suppress it’ and there’s such also consequence in showing negative emotion IRL, so online is almost having no consequence for it.
-
Online people are separate by screen. People know that there’s people behind it, but they don’t feel it. In online, we don’t get in your face ‘feedback’ from body language or facial expression from other people. IRL, you mess around and pretty much find out instantly.
-
Social media reward people with engagement and fav/like, which is easy dopamine for people like it’s just a tip away from their body. And SOMEHOW I feel like social media normalized people being mean to each other as ‘Playful witty funny hahaha’ so they get rewarded by that. And yeah these things are addictive, so you can crave more, making you do more ‘extreme’ thing to get them. And yes you can get addicted to being angry too.
-
And then there is also peer pressure and ‘us vs them’ mentality that is so strong in social media. I mean yeah, if we look at it, being ‘mean’ together with your group it’s sort of activity that you can bound together and also reward you as well. It just not a good one and come at a cost of another people.
Now add all of them together, you get the platform that reward toxic interaction and also extremely addictive. You get reward from like/fav. You get reward by ‘Peer approval’ (because today we forbid other people having neutral opinion on a thing, but it could be just my experience.), You get reward by your own brain. Not counting other thing like politic, moral compass, religion because it adds entirely another layer on this.
off-topic, language
Don’t take this as a criticism, I think your arguments are spot on… but if you might excuse my curiosity… it looks like you’re not a native English speaker, and I can’t figure out which language those expression structures come from… may I ask what’s your native language?
Oh yeah that totally fine! I’m from Thailand so my native language is Thai.
-
There is hope.
This is really cool, is there more from where it came from? Is this a blog? I really loved it!
Just search for indie web. It’s an idea, a movement, etc. If you want to find things off the beaten path, this is an interesting search engine.
Omg all this stuff is so cool. Thank you!!!
My favorite part of that site was discovering this site: https://simone.computer/#/webdesktops
I already knew about Windows 93 and 96, but didn’t know there were so many of them out there!
I know. I love stuff like this. Some people are so talented.
The loudest voices usually aren’t the most representative ones. I like Hank Green’s take in a recent video. It’s easier to dismiss the really out there opinions when you realize that it’s not what everyone thinks.
Hank Green is just so… awesome. Both Hank and John are, really. I’m not saying everyone should be exactly like them (they’re both white, both men, etc) but I wish more people would take the initiative to cultivate the positivity that they exude. I know I could do a fair bit better at being positive myself…
I agree and thats why I end up in Beehaw. There is still some hostility but compared to the world wide web out there, its much better.
Now I just reduce my time online and try to find friends who share an interest.
Get off the internet. I’ve been trying to have a social event on every weekday so that I’m not sitting bored at home. You forget about politics. I also have one room in my house I’ve dedicated as internet-free, where I go to do stuff like drawing.
I am so bad at like getting out. I got off the internet for three whole weeks and in that time I: Did a massive amount of chores and worked on my computers’ hardware without ever turning them on.
Drawing I could do, though.
I am way less online than I used to. However whenever I am into something new and I want to try reading about it, I end up facing these situations. That’s why I am more and more leaving platforms and just avoiding things to a point I am in a bubble.
I believe a lot of the posts and replies that rile an individual up, on social media, are put there by bots. Intentionally to rile people up.
I think social unrest is desired by certain groups and factions.
One thing you really have to learn in this world is how to disregard the feelings of other people. Other people’s feelings are only rooted in their own self-interest and they will take advantage of your feelings and manipulate you to get what they want. They’re not even aware they’re even doing it half the time. It is the perennial human condition.
Most people are ugly-spirited, mean, cruel assholes.
You’re better off either just insulating yourself from them or hardening your spirit to better tolerate their presence.
Why are we so shitty to each other? I’m so tired.
That’s our nature. We always have been and always will be. The only difference is that now it’s way more convenient.
With that said, I deleted my twitter a year ago. I deleted facebook three months ago, and left reddit for lemmy two months ago. It’s actually been really great for my mental health to not know what everyone I know is thinking all of the time, and I still have messenger if they need to to get in touch with me. Do I miss an event here and there? Yes, but it’s worth it for the amount of stuff I don’t have to see anymore.
People who are shitty to others seem to use this excuse - it’s just who everyone is.
But no, it isn’t.
It’s not an excuse or an opinion. It’s the history of our species.
The only difference now is it’s just a lot easier to be that way.
It is an opinion, and a wrong one. Not only does that cloud your world view with toxicity, but the human species literally would’ve died out if we had not worked together and cooperated to make villages and advance our species out if the stone age.
Thank you for your point of view. I appreciate that.
I doubt you have met our entire species. You know who you have met? Loud, obnoxious people… Because they are there to be noticed. But there is a selection bias here. Most people are actually really nice but you don’t see them because they don’t get into fights, they don’t argue, they let things go etc.
I’d like to share your optimism… but I’ve seen some of those “really nice” people who “don’t get into fights, they don’t argue, they let things go etc” when they’re in their homes, behind closed doors, when they think nobody’s watching them, when they believe everybody’s on their side… I’ve heard some of them through walls… I’ve seen what they’ve done to others… and too many of them turned out to be not nice at all.
I on the other hand might argue, have gotten into a few fights, don’t let some things go… maybe you’d call me “not nice”… I call myself “tired of being a doormat”… despite coming to this safe space to be nice, and maybe remember, or sometimes learn, how to be nice.
You sound like me 10 years ago.
How did that work out?
I think 20 years ago I still sounded like @[email protected]… but I keep seeing proof to the contrary, and wouldn’t want to end up in 30 years like someone who, after asking someone else for help, then proceeds to tear them a new one because they only wasted 2 hours of their own time, before confiding in me: “I don’t trust people”.
Maybe I’ve lost faith in humanity… did you gain it back? And if so, how?
I just grew as a person I guess. I’m not the same person I was 10 years ago and I’m sure I’ll be different in the next 10 years if I’m still around.
I also cut a lot of people out of my life and cut a lot of certain interactions out of my life. Like for example, I got of 4chan in 2020. I use to be a troll - the kind of person OPs post is complaining about - and now I’m very against it. I always prefer to be honest online instead of just saying whatever to get a response.
I try to have more good faith discussions now instead of antagonizing people.
But I said I sounded like you 10 years ago cause I remember hanging out with people in person, at their houses and at parties and on the streets… I felt like an observer. It felt like I knew a lot about other people cause I was always listening in.
What changed is that I stopped listening in on those people. Went out of my way to go meet other people instead. Now I’m not seeing those patterns I use to see among the previous groups I hung out in.
I have some faith in humanity but only because I sit around theorizing how to make things better. It’s just a theory though. So I know its possible but to make it happen, would take the kind of work and time I don’t have and I have no reach.
That’s true especially in gaming circles.
There are big misconceptions about game development jobs. People tend to think that implementing X or Y feature “surely can’t be that hard”. They have absolutely zero experience in game design or game programming and yet they take on such a condescending level when you read their posts.
Programming is hard. Balancing is hard. Developing a game while you have a whole player base against you is hard. The game industry is most infamously known for its crunch times and high turnover rates. And yet players do not respect that.
Whenever a game gets released at all, it’s such a ton of work that have been done. Even if the game turns out to be not as fun as people wanted. Or even if there are bugs. In fact, i am sure that half of the people that complain aggressively will never do something that impressive in their life, ever.
We should be in awe and respect our fellow devs because this job is one of pure passion.
That said, it’s perfectly valid to complain about a product not meeting expectations or realistic standards that have been set. That’s just business, if the product is no good it doesn’t matter how much time and money you put into it.
Though I’m nice about it, no one sets out to make a shit product apart from actual scammers. I’m usually more interested in breaking down how something failed to deliver.
I and three others had a pvp Minecraft server and we had to shut it down because people were getting into stupid toxic arguments to the point we had two sides, one wanted the other banned on threat of them leaving because one of their members had an argument several months ago with them and brought it up again. I spent all nighters on the Minecraft server and the owner spent €50 every month. To be treated like this was heartbreaking. So the four of us agreed to shut it down. It hurt and I feel bad and the underlying concept was enjoyable to many people, but we couldn’t have it because people were just trying to figure out ways to break it and weren’t actually playing the game we tirelessly were maintaining for them. Shutting it down was heartbreaking but I feel so much better for it.