I’m considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don’t plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I’ve also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I’ve already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it’s worth it before sinking money into it
Im happy with my ROG Zephyrus G14, which I only chose because of decent linux compatibility and a sale at Best Buy.
I would say when judging the price of a laptop, whether it is Windows focused or Linux focused, make your decision based off of mainly hardware specs (and that hardwares linux compatibility). For example (assuming same price), if a Windows laptop has a great AMD CPU and GPU, I would take that over a Linux laptop with an equivalent CPU but an NVIDIA GPU.
My best advice is to read posts / watch videos of people using / installing / reviewing Linux on said hardware before you buy it. For instance, Asus ROG laptops (like I have) require a program called asusctl to control certain aspects of the machine that are usually controlled by Asus’s proprietary software. I would not have known this if not for researching beforehand.
EDIT: I agree with another comment, used Thinkpads are awesome and usually old enough that there will be next to no compatibility issues with Linux. Also, they’re tanks!
Ooo, nice! And yeah, buying a laptop without knowing for sure Linux is compatible would be a very bad idea, lol. As for ThinkPads, I’m highly considering getting one simply because of the price point, but used/refurbished stuff can be a bit of a gamble if it’s from somebody who isn’t credible
Thinkpads are a particularly solid option for used, as a lot of businesses buy them in bulk and they end up on resell sites (in better condition than most consumer used models). Like you said, just has to be a credible reseller.
They seem pretty nice, and I’m pretty sure it’s the best route to go down for now. I’ll probably look for some credible sellers later and make my decision then
Check out Framework if you haven’t already! https://frame.work/linux
They’re designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they’re super modular. You can also save some money if you’re not afraid to put it together yourself.
I got their 12th gen diy last year and it was really easy to assemble. I was pleasantly surprised at how well thought out it was.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn’t the past year saving up for it. I’m glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
How’s the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol’ days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I’m pretty sure it’s usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
Perfect, thank you! Some laptops these days have increasingly complex camera modules that make having drivers for them increasingly messy.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you’re replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
While the laptops being so modular is really useful, the list of supported OS seem a bit narrow, although that doesn’t mean I’m not considering. Thank you!
Those are the officially supported distros. You can install other ones just fine. I doubt you’d find another laptop that had even just more than 1 officially supported distro.
Yeah, but I’d still like the peace of mind from knowing for sure other distros work, y’know?
Sure, fair enough. There are other distros supported by the community if you want to check that out too.
You honestly won’t find better than the support for framework in the laptop space. The arch wiki entry for it is fantastic, and having multiple supported distros is almost unique.
That does give me a bit of comfort. I’ll definitely have to put it higher up on the board, then! Thanks again, lol
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Framework_Laptop_13 The Arch wiki is the GOAT
What distro are you considering? I know e.g. Arch has a wiki page dedicated to the FrameWork and basically everything works.
Just get whatever. Part of the fun is hacking it to get it working.
If you’re thinking of getting one, i personally would recommend getting one from https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/. Extremely good quality and a really clean distro with Tuxedo OS 2 although you are able to install on it whatever you want.
Thanks! They look good but are a little expensive :( they’re definitely a vendor I’ll look into in the future, though!
Any will do, just make sure it has Intel WiFi.
Eh, I run Ubuntu on my newish XPS and it has issues I’ve never seen with using Linux before. If I knew ahead of time I would’ve gladly paid a few hundred extra not to have these problems.
Specifically, sometimes the keyboard just stops working (after waking from sleep) and I’ll need to restart once or twice to get it working again. Also, 5G wifi loses its shit when I’m at home due to it randomly switching between my main AP and the extender. I only use 2G at home 😔.
I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you’re into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn’t anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they’re the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Also had good experience with tuxedo (if in Europe - also slim book)
Framework has quite a nice selection and the modularity is an amazing feature! Although having Linux preinstalled is a pretty big draw, and Sysytem76 has some VERY nice looking machines. Thank you!
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don’t get me started…
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they’re just fucking with us.
I’ve got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you’re ~ key is down there? It’s fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
I’ve had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I’ve been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It’s a bloody miracle!
I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I’ve been using it for 4 years so far. I don’t mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It’s on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can’t count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux… yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can’t bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody’s mentioned that so far :)
It’s not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don’t like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don’t know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon…
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
This, got me through my entire cybersecurity & digital forensics undergrad
What did you do to the previous owner? oi
Some things are better kept a secret ;)
Jkjk it was the old work laptop of someone i knew so i got it from them for the extremely low price of $0, slapped linux onto it, and went about my business
Yeah I’m considering getting one simply bc of the affordability. They also seem to be pretty highly regarded (if the amount of recommendations I’ve gotten says anything)
You could get the education edition. I have a new yoga 11e and it has a great keyboard, and it’s just… way too good for the money (250 bucks). I love that if I break or lose it I can just get an idenical one for super cheap in a couple days. But they’re made for kids so they’re pretty durable anyway.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
I agree, I have two Thinkpads, an older T450S that lives out in the shop for me to reference things, and my mainstay which is a T480S. If OP does want to do video editing or gaming or anything that might be more intensive, I also have had a Legion 5 and similarly had absolutely no problems with Linux on it.
Framework all the way!
Buy a used Dell Latitude. They are business laptops that often get put up on eBay, so you can get them for $200-$750 depending on how old you’re willing to buy.
I’ve installed Linux on two Windows laptops:
- A 2019 Lenovo Yoga with an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU. Kubuntu worked without any issue, aside from the Nvidia drivers being finicky. It also has a touchscreen with pen support, which works really well.
- A 2022 Asus Vivobook with an AMD CPU. Tried Fedora for this one and had tons of driver issues at first, but they eventually got patched.
So, I’d say that buying a Windows laptop and installing Linux on it is certainly viable, as long as you’re ready to do some amount of troubleshooting or waiting for driver updates. Oh, and keeping the Windows partition somehow (dual booting or w/e) can be handy for firmware updates.
Ahh, I figured that’d be a problem. Although it’s not make or break, it certainly is a bit annoying
I’d say Framework, but I don’t think they have stuff under $1000 unfortunately.
I’ve never heard of framework so I’ll check them out, although it’s a bit unfortunate they might not have anything in my price range :( thanks regardless!
Their main draw is modularity. You can replace the components with newer ones down the line (need to replace entire motherboard for CPU upgrade, but that’s not really their fault). You also choose which ports you want.
That is quite a bonus! Framework seems like a really nice choice so far
You’ve been given a lot of good advice, especially about Nvidia cards, but watch out for wifi adaptors too. As far as I know there are no problems with fairly recent hardware, but I’ve been caught out when trying Mint on an old laptop.
I’m relatively happy with my System76, but based on your needs you could get a lot of value from a $500 used ThinkPad on Ebay.
Ooo, what do you like about System76? I know they’re well respected, but I’d like to hear about it from somebody who actually uses the hardware, especially since Pop!_OS has caught my attention more than once
My laptop still runs Ubuntu. But the 500 mb boot partition is basically now non functional and since I use luks on the main partition and hate snap I’m just strongly considering moving to pop. I also use an egpu quite frequently.
Ahh, I see. Well, what’s your experience with the hardware itself, then? Specifically the durability, weight, etc.
Sorry. I dont use a system76 laptop, i looked at getting the Lemur when i bought mine, but stock was hard to come by (it was the whole covid and supply chain nonsense).
I ended up getting a razer blade stealth 13 with the 11th Gen intel CPU.
Ultimately I wanted portability to be the primary thing over all else. BUt a GPU was nice to have.
My laptop is solid. But i tend to take pretty solid care of this stuff. Wouldnt necessarily reccomend any razer product to most personally. Their QA is questionable. And I take certain steps to keep it stable (ie: blocking some of their software at the firewall etc)
AH. Regardless, thanks for the reply. And I’m happy your Razer is doing u well :)
lol me too. Was pretty risky for me, even going in eyes wide open. Would probably do a lemur or framework next laptop. In fact that may be what I get the wife.
That or a MacBook Air. But I’d like to avoid that.
I’ve heard amazing things about noth Framework nd System76! I’m sure u can’t go wrong with either :) and I feel ya w/ ur avoidance of Apple products, lol
FWIW, I have a galp5, and had a lot of stability issues with Pop. I used it for well over a year, as I thought using their own OS on the machine they sold me would give the best results. Ultimately I spent a lot of time opening support tickets, and trying to work around issues (desktop stuttering, crashes, touchpad randomly would stop responding, etc). I did not find their support team particularly helpful. I finally installed stock Ubuntu, and it’s been significantly more stable.
I don’t plan to buy from them again. If I were buying now, I’d be looking at Framework (probably their upcoming, larger model with the dedicated GPU).
The main thing I like is the hardware support. I knew before purchasing that everything would work, and that helped me feel okay dropping a pretty penny on a new laptop. Besides that, I’d say they’re fine. They aren’t designing and manufacturing their own hardware (at least not back when I bought one); the laptops are pretty standard off-the-shelf stuff. System76 just promises that it’ll all work out-of-the-box. I’ve never used Pop!_OS, so I can’t speak to that. Arch and Debian work great, though.
The only negative I can think of is: once the battery started to go after several years, they didn’t have a replacement in their store, but because it’s a generic laptop, there were new ones available on Amazon. It just would’ve been nice to get it from System76.
All-in-all, I’m a happy customer. I’m keeping my eye on Framework, though. The MNT Reform is also interesting. I don’t like how thick it is, but that’s because it uses 18650s for the battery, which would solve the problem of buying a new battery just to find that all the batteries were manufactured at the same time, so there are no working replacements.
Ooo, good to know! It sucks they don’t offer hardware replacements on-site, but it’s good to know that they’re easy to find. And I doubt I’m going to be using Arch anytime soon (due to personal inexperience) but I would like to test Pop!_OS. Thank you for the detailed reply :D
Their battery can be replaced with any battery? How to do that? Other manufacture OEM battery?
@letbelight
18650s are a standard size. Several companies make decent ones.It’s like taking AA cells, but lithium.
@delialah… you mean refilling the battery right?
I tried that last time… I have no luck… Poor X220 can’t get 10 hours with 9 cell like old times :'(
It’s not any battery. They just didn’t do the original manufacturing, so you can find compatible replacements elsewhere.
I bought the System76 Kudu laptop back in 2016, but it is actually a W670RZ model laptop manufactured by Clevo Co. in China (unlike my previous laptop which was a MacBook Pro manufactured by Apple in China). System76 wasn’t the only company selling the W670RZ, so they’re not the only ones you can go to for replacement parts.
OH, so it’s generic product… I see, thank you for the information
I get a lot of value from my 150.00 ThinkPad T430s but then all I do is web browsing and occasionally compiling software on it so not exactly intensive things. It’s a basic machine. A ThinkPad T series closer to 500.00 would be very functional.
Yeah, I have a couple T420 ThinkPads, and for $100 they’re pretty sweet, but they show their age.
A framework 100%. The lowest end diy should be right around $1000, probably lower if you buy the third party parts yourself. And it’ll save you a few hundred bucks when it’s time to upgrade. Also keep an eye on the refurbs in the marketplace, they’re out of stock rn but that might change.
