Being forced to use a particular OS, hardware or programming language? Working remotely? Certain company structure?
There are so many reasons to leave a job. I can only say why I left jobs or rejected job offers in the past:
- Left a bullshit job. I was bored.
- Left a job because I didn’t like where I had to live.
- Left a job because the company was unraveling. It went under within a year.
- Let a job because of incompetent management and crappy code.
- Rejected an offer because the place felt like a morgue.
- Rejected an offer because the hiring manager’s boss acted like a entitled asshole.
- Rejected an offer because the work spaces for developers were even worse than open plan.
Rejected an offer because the work spaces for developers were even worse than open plan.
I am incredibly curious to learn more
Work spaces? As in mini open spaces?
Abuse. Don’t take it. Know your worth.
I’m guess I’m lucky to never had encountered abuse. Have you seen it happen or experienced it yourself?
Harassment from toxic managers who abuse employees verbally (insults, etc.) It happens a lot sadly.
I would consider what my company is doing right now as board line abuse. They’ve done two rounds of layoffs this year, but the amount of work as not been reduced in the slightest. So everyone is overworked and scared of saying anything in case there is another round of layoffs. Of course this is also having a ripple affect where long-term hardworking employees are jumping ship.
I currently have a backlog that is four years long. That was when I had a team working for me. Now I’m the only person on the team and not a week goes by when I don’t get ask what the status of XYZ is. Or have 2-3 more “high priority” things added to my backlog.
- abuse in the US workplace is (generally) not openly visible in ways you expect
- and yet, sexual abuse is still extremely prevalent in all industries
- US companies can impose a MASSIVE chilling effect just by having your healthcare tied to your employment
- mental abuse can be subtle (a form of psychological warfare) with something as simple as “we’re like a family here” or “you wouldn’t want to let down the team, would you?”
- the first episode of Zom 100 gave a really good example of how far the mental abuse can escalate – between overwork, lack of sleep, verbal abuse, bad diet, you no longer have time to step back and think, you become completely dependent on someone else telling you what to do, you no longer have the strength of will to even contemplate saying “No”
I was an admin at a company that was borderline psychopathic. Yeah, tons of abuse at all levels. No progression unless you were a member of the executive teams family or married to one of them. Completely dysfunctional workplace.
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I will quit if I don’t feel happy anymore, which most likely because of people. If colleagues I like are all gone, I probably go somewhere else.
Sometimes it might be the salary which causes people to leave.
I read about the term “silent quitting”: quitting without any prior warning, just handing in the resignation without a chance to remedy the situation.
Sometimes it might be the salary which causes people to leave.
Definitely. Got the highest pay bumps when switching. Was only a reason to switch once for me though. Is salary the most important factor for you?
remember that “2 weeks notice” is a kindness you’re giving them, it’s not a requirement and companies will never show you that kindness when they fire you
Unless you’re on a contract. If you’re in the US and you’re not sure if you’re on a contract, you’re not on a contract. At-will goes both ways.
Like what they are gonna do? Fire you?
In Europe it’s at least 1 month for both sides. Luckily. I can’t imagine working at-will.
I’m likely to do that shortly. I’m in an environment with a few toxic colleagues who know fuck all about what needs to be done, or how to do it, but manage to impact decision making and cast doubt on my abilities and deliverables to date. I have had to step outside of my role to deliver multiple big ticket tasks (e.g. I’ve been brought on to uplift code for multiple applications, but have also had to build a MEM deployment from scratch as there was no endpoint management), but no-one has the knowledge or the interest in taking over the finished products, expecting I’ll add it to my responsibilities.
A job is about to open up elsewhere that I’ve been encouraged to apply for, so I’ll keep trudging along and will let them know at my notice period. I’ve tried so hard to get involved with no luck, so now they’ll be forced to take interest.
I read about the term “silent quitting”: quitting without any prior warning, just handing in the resignation without a chance to remedy the situation.
Here’s the thing - finding the next job took me effort. I’m not wasting that because the boss suddenly realized they can do better. They needed to figure that out before I took the effort to find my next gig.
And I expect the same now that I’m the boss. I do a one on one meeting with each of my direct reports like clockwork, and I ask probing questions about work conditions, career trajectory, and work/life balance.
It’s not their job to make sure I know if they’re satisfied with their job. It’s my job.
Their job is to do all the other amazing things they do to make me look like an amazing boss.
Is salary the most important factor for you?
My employees have taught me that salary is the least important thing - right up until the moment when it becomes the most important thing. No one knows when that will be: surprise car repair, medical bill, whatever.
People tend to figure out their market value. I’ve never successfully retained a significantly underpaid professional over the long term. Of course, I do always get a healthy discount on the talent I hire. People value a great boss a lot. But having a great manager doesn’t fix a leaking roof, so that discount amount has to be an amount they feel great about, not an insult to them.
Sounds like you are a good boss! I am sure your direct reports are happy since you obviously care about them.
Sounds like you’ve got your shit together. 👍
Thanks. I try.
No one knows when that will be: surprise car repair, medical bill, whatever.
Salary cut. When you say if it’s not important, then why make it worse, they will immidiately tell you how important it is to die on a job.
I am okay with some discount on my salary if I am really happy with my colleagues. We go to work every day, it is important to be happy.
If most of my friends are gone, and the salary is not satifactory, I will definitely quit for higher pay!
Do you make friends at work?
Yes. I make friends in all my jobs. How about you?
I’ve… tried? But despite being software developers, our interests often don’t align. I’ve gotten along well with many, but they’ve always stayed aquaintances. Back when I was younger and willing to go out and have a beer after work I did make more friends.
I do agree, sometimes it is difficult to chat within work hours because everyone is busy. And when you get older, you have commitments in family, and other plans, etc, getting even more difficult to make friends.
I try to hang out with my colleagues, because i want to make friends and I still have time for that.
But anyways, I felt that you can be a good friend! Felt bad for your colleagues missing the chance to make a good friend. (Sorry if that sounds odd because of my poor English)
@onlinepersona @frozenmolar I thought I did make friends at my old job.
These people do not seem very interested anymore, tho ._.That - and the fact, that my new job is fully remote and on the other side of the country - is why I don’t at my new job.
That sounds really sad, did you try to connect with them? I usually try to connect with old friends with festival blessings, e.g. Christmas. This removes the awkwardness for not connecting for too long. Then you can follow up by questions like how things are going.
But I guess sometimes it is really difficult to connect, since people just move on to dofferent stages of their lives.
@frozenmolar Sure I tried, we are connected through several channels as messengers or similar, but even when asking some questions they only reply sporadically and do not seem to connect to each other, as well.
Far from eye far from heart, I reckon.
That’s really sad. But the important thing is you had good times in the past!
Return to office has made me quit.
Using war metaphors
Requering blind loyalty
Requering acceptance of any task
Disregard for labor contracts
Dumb management
Using war metaphors
What do you mean?
Requering acceptance of any task
You would quit if something were against your morals e.g working on a project for Exxon mobile or something ?
War metaphors real examples:
Literally calling your employees your soldiers, calling starting positions as trenches, brainwashing your employees to a us versus the world mentality, ex-employees are ‘dead’ or ‘on a suicidal path’, etc.
Business is not war anyone who think it is has never saw what a single rifle bullet does to human flesh. Freaking psychos.
Task was being discussed, I raised valid concerns, they listened, agreed to the concerns and said ‘yeah we still want you to do it’. I say I won’t do this. They push harder. I left on the spot. Notice was on director desk the next day. I suspect management wanted me to take on a botched task so to have something negative over me. There may of may not have some level of nepotism there.
My previous job referred to ex employees as traitors or betrayers
Fuck that shit
Big yikes on the war metaphors. I’m also not a fan of alternative names for teams: squad, tribe, gang, clan, … makes me cringe.
I suspect management wanted me to take on a botched task so to have something negative over me.
Sounds like somebody with a god complex or way too deep in the army role-play “soldiers follow orders” bullshit.
@onlinepersona to show gratitude to software creators? To support them and to be sure the software will be maintained for years?
When feeling unappreciated/disrespected.
Do you voice your concerns when it happens? In my experience people have communication methods that sometimes clash and they unknowingly disrespect other people. Some people are just assholes though…
Toxic managers or coworkers
pay/benefits don’t trickle down
shit trickles downwhat I’ve learned is that 2 week notices only gives time for corporations to replace you with another unsuspecting victim so I’m just gonna run as soon as I can tell my work environment is toxic
these toxic workplaces can crumble for all I care
In my field of work, two weeks isn’t long enough to pull in someone new, but I do use the period to hand off as much as possible to those who I don’t want to set up to fail.
If there’s nobody to hand things off to, I just slack off and use it as free money until my next gig.
but I do use the period to hand off as much as possible to those who I don’t want to set up to fail.
If there’s nobody to hand things off to, I just slack off and use it as free money until my next gig.
both are totally fair opinions/decisions
personally I’ve been in too many toxic companies that I couldn’t stomach staying even a day within the company
I find it’s a lot easier to deal with toxicity when your fucks reach absolute zero
Absolutely. You stop caring about the work and start counting those coins.
Buckets o’ Ducats
Abuse. Disrespect. Lying. RTO mandate.
RTO? Can’t be Real Time Optimisation
Return to office.
Left two jobs in the last 3 years because they offered remote and then tried to claw it back. If I ever set foot in an office again it’ll be too soon.
I also tend to check in with myself on Sunday nights as I’m lying in bed. If I feel like I’m walking into a good situation the next morning, with good problems to solve and a decent chance of actually solving them, then I stick around. If I’m filled with dread awaiting the next off-hours disaster, I brush up my resume and flip the flag on LinkedIn.
I wish I were in the place you’re in right now. Good on you dude. Did the job switches also come with tasty salary bumps?
Absolutely delicious, thank you for asking. I’ve been very fortunate and had a lot of help.
@onlinepersona Left because of crappy management and no perspective as a not-that-junior-anymore developer.
I worry that some rocket magician with an MBA will decide we can just use FreeCAD and stop paying for these silly Solidworks or Autodesk licenses.
Why pay when you can crack? 🧠
Because real manufacturing draws scrutiny, and these companies are audited regularly enough to make licensing fees palletable.
Jira
What would you use/accept instead?
Anything simple. I’m using Linear at my current job, which is fine. I’ve used Trello in the past, also fine. Best experience so far was using the GitLab issue tracker, but it as not a product team so YMMV.
oh Jira isn’t that bad
Maybe. I guess I hate the idea behind Jira more than Jira itself. I call it middle management driven Agile.
Also doesn’t help that Jira (and Confluence) were fucking slow for a long while. Nobody wants to use slow software as an integral part of the dev chain.
I usually check in with myself:
- Am I growing in my career?
- Am I happy with my current workplace: people, culture, flexibility?
- Am I valued to the company, i.e. my opinions are considered and regarded to some certain?
If one or two of these conditions failed, I would consider moving. After all, if I went to a workplace and I didn’t find any joy or recognition, the paycheck wouldn’t make me stay.
We are truly lucky to be techies. Is there a paycheck that would let you take it though?
Return to the office. Forced to use Windows again
The stuff of nightmares.
Or ClearCase
Never heard of it, but it looks aweful
Thankfully, we migrated to git entirely right before I joined the company