Agiant most of these comments.
Mac actually does have one major similarity to Linux (beside it being posix)
spoiler
The UX sucks just as much as GNOME 4x
xfce for life lol
I don’t like start menus, I much prefer the UX of Gnome
No no no they didn’t do that didn’t they?
Meanwhile yesterday I fucked up my linux installation trying to find alternatives on how to be use the wheel click without having things pasted with it :/
I’ll be trying again when I am not lazy to reinstall it again.
Next time try NixOS or use BTRFS snapshots.
I fucked up my Linux installation yesterday by doing apt upgrade.
Same! dnf upgrade tho for me.
Click “Activities” in the upper right and search for “tweaks”, click the “Tweaks” icon. Select “Keyboard & Mouse” and turn “Middle Click Paste” to “off”.
For Gnome ^ but I’m at work and can’t confirm.
Damn, someone who actually gives GUI instructions and doesn’t yell at the person? Keep it up. The Linux community needs people like you.
As far as I remember I tried that but it didn’t seem to work and some xdotool script that disabled the wheel click entirely. Then I installed kde, tried a few more things there, and then I tried to go back to gnome but… …
I recently tried out Fedora and it deleted my Windows boot files so I had to fuck with the computer for hours trying to troubleshoot… not to mention that almost all Linux tools can’t create a proper bootable USB Windows recovery drive :/ Never had this problem with OpenSUSE (I had the best Linux experience with that one for sure) or Ubuntu, they behaved properly with dual-boot install. I guess Fedora never again. And what’s with that name anyway? It’s dumb. Fedoras are a meme for a reason.
Just make a Ventoy USB. Why people still bother flashing disk images to thumb drives is beyond me.
Ventoy is awesome, +1
It’s still needed for some things. I tried to install a Universal Blue based distro with Ventoy and kept getting errors, once I flashed a drive it installed perfectly normally. It’s definitely an edge case though.
And what’s with that name anyway? It’s dumb. Fedoras are a meme for a reason.
I guess that’s because it was a community continuation of red hat linux (not the enterprise one)
It is made by Red Hat, and they went with the hat theme. I used a few distributions, and RedHat was one of the worst. I don’t know why it’s popular.
PC gamers have modded every game that has been released, whether legal or not. I can’t believe there is no “remove ads from start bar” mod available yet.
Edit: To all those who downvoted me for my comment, you were right to do so. I downloaded the program and it was truly a genuinely free program with no advertising or anything. While I still am not a fan of O&O for other reasons, in this case you were all right.
I’m sorry.
I just saw your edit. That’s cool, man. I’m glad you checked it out.
I think you misunderstood the quote. There’s no cost, it’s free, but they’re flattered that people think it should cost money.
You are calling them losers for giving something away for free?
It’s literally a completely free app. They made it easy for less tech-savvy people to debloat windows. Again, for free. Is it so wrong that they mention they take donations on a small portion of the bottom of their webpage? The fuck you complaining for?
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“Hey man, I gave you that for free. No you don’t need to pay me for it, but while you’re here check out my assortment of completely useless apps that will 100% make your computer super fast”
Except that didn’t happen… they don’t advertise the rest of the website or products anywhere on that page or the program itself. They never even mention that they make other apps.
Microsoft pr team putting in work here
Prey on them by giving them free software that literally never asks for anything, and allows them control over areas of their computer that they wouldn’t normally understand? Okay then!
I have recently been using BloatyNosy at my IT job when setting up new Windows 11 PCs.
It’s a lightweight little Windows 11 debloater. It’s just a simple UI with checkboxes to modify and run a powershell script. Just in case anyone is looking for a FOSS alternative. The link that you posted looks similar, but it doesn’t appear to be open source.
Yeah it’s the same thing, it just runs registry entry scripts based off toggle switches. I guess it’s not FOSS, but it is freeware. I’ve had a good experience with it so far. The toggle switches are nice because it gives you a handy visual reference of how much Windows overwrites your settings to turn all that shit back on during meaningless updates. I’m convinced that some of their updates don’t do anything except turn all their tracking back on and push an ad of sorts in your face.
Microsoft is the only company that can make so many bad decisions in such a short time…
I think X still has them beat.
For a second I though you were talking about xorg. Curse you elon
Thought so to until i read your comment and remembered that X (twitter) exists
I think you forgot Elon musk businesses
no shot I’m trading in win 10 for this ad-ridden win11 bullshit. They’ll do anything to keep them record profit quarters coming
with that said, these comments are just fanboi bullshit. Fuck this ‘my team’ mindset bs.
You shouldn’t stick with 10 past the end of security updates (2025)
Go to 11 if you want to stick with Windows or go to Linux/Mac if you want to be ad free.
And you can hack the ads out of 11 but you won’t get Microsoft to stop unless you threaten their market share
For whatever reasony work tools on Linux aren’t working right now, so I am using win10 for the moment.
The start menu is a fucking nightmare. I don’t care about what’s on the internet when I am looking for my software. This isn’t a mobile phone.
What’s even worse is that I know what the name of my software is. But half the time, when I use the start menu, the web results and ads load first and it takes a while to show my software, if it ever shows up at all.
I highly recommend Powertoys Run (powered by Wox) with the Everything plugin. It brings a Spotlight-like search with lightning fast search and many features like calculator, running commands and others. I almost never use the start menu nowadays. And all of this is available through Chocolatey.
Also there’s plenty other nifty tools you get as a part of Powertoys (I couldn’t live without Fancy Zones).
https://lifehacker.com/how-to-set-up-microsofts-new-spotlight-esque-powertoy-i-1843566673
I will look into that. I installed chocolatey and I really appreciate a package manager in windows. Gives me a bit of familarity
I love Everything. Cannot recommend it enough.
Maybe it’s just my age, but I use File Explorer to find things on my PC.
But Windows loves to not show you things, and the main folder(C:) just seems to get worse and more cluttered with folders with a name like: 4783DDBMJUD84WWIOT.
Well, the thing is that the start menu used to be useful. So the habit is there. Even in Linux, this is the same.
But now in windows, it’s a pile of crap riddled with ads.
Even when Win95 came out, I was so used to 3.1 navigation and the MSDOS prompt, the Start menu just never had any appeal to me.
Hell, I even right-click to shut down or restart.
I started using computers at windows 95, so to me the start menu was always there.
Install Classic Shell. It lets you change the windows UI to go back to the old Windows 7 UI (or earlier.)
Let’s not live in the past. Just disable internet searching from the start menu.
I agree, it shouldn’t have been built in and on by default and it should be easier to disable.
Personally I think Win10 start was peak Windows start because it was the most customizable.
Laughs in a clunky alternative hack that is miles behind any sort of native solution.
The word art really makes the joke
It’s 2023 and Apple is a trillion dollar company, and they still don’t have window snapping/tiling in OSX. I don’t have anything positive to say about their OS lol.
The first thing I do with a new Mac is install Better Touch Tool UI. It’s mandatory software for Mac as far as I’m concerned.
Rectangle Pro for me, 100%. I bought the paid version too as I loved it.
I like my windows organized and macOS has this penchant for chaos. Windoze at least has FancyZones in PowerToys which is chef’s kiss perfectly done, and I can’t live without it.
I haven’t heard of those programs, but BetterTouchTool also adds window snapping and tiling, and let’s you create custom keybinds and macros, so you can do completely unheard of stuff like use a normal mouse (gasp!). It sounds like your programs are just different variants of the same thing. Right?
MacOS, or the joy of paying extra for shit that should be included OOTB, especially in an OS that every user profusely advertises as “just works”, “intuitive”, etc
BS
They’ve had it for a while
The have some basic tiling with left/right sides of the screen, not full tiling. But it’s not like they lock the system down so much it can’t be done. There are several 3rd party utilities that can do this.
Apple tends to go for the stuff 80% of people will use. I don’t think the majority likes tiling window managers. I’ve always found them annoying. Even after Windows got the option, I don’t see anyone using it. Usually I see someone snap their window on accident, get the UI for selecting their other tiles, then getting frustrated, because they don’t want than, and then they try and make things go back to normal.
I wasn’t referencing tiling managers. I’m referring to simply dragging a window to the left/right side of the screen and snapping it to 50% of the screen. It’s actually painful to not have that feature. That’s extremely common. I’m not implying it needs to be an i3 clone.
If you’re just looking for a left/right split, macOS has had this for several years as part of their full screen mode. Hover over the green button and it shows full screen or tile left/right. You can also drag stuff around to do it in mission control.
Sounds like they should probably improve their terrible UX. People say they have good UX somehow?
The dragging to the left and right of the screen doesn’t really make sense for Apple’s implementation. It’s not something I use often, but I can understand why they did it the way they did. The drag and drop in mission control is the primary way it’s meant to be used. I think the zoom button hover was added to make it more discoverable.
Like any system, you have to spend a little time using it and learning how it works to take full advantage of it.
I think the lack of minimize in Gnome, and the expectation that people will open up a new virtual desktop and throw apps in it, and jump around desktops or move windows between desktops all the time when they just want to hide something for 2 seconds and bring it back, is a terrible UX, or at least something I can’t seem to get used to. There are tweaks to bring the minimize function back, but the whole thing is buggy. But I’m sure there are people on Gnome who really like this design pattern, they must if they made it.
I can’t say that I agree with you as far as the Apple stuff, but as a long time Gnome user, I agree with you 100% about Gnome. I loved Gnome 2, but even after all these years Gnome 3 has not grown on me. I’m actually running it on my main desktop PC right now so it’s not for lack of trying. Maybe I’m just a dinosaur but I’d take some Gnome 2 with Compiz over this mess of a desktop environment even still.
I actually had to go find a video on how Gnome 3 was meant to be used. Every time I installed it, I would always go straight to the tweak tool to add in some functionality. Then one day I was like, no, there has to be a design here, what is it? It actually took a fair bit of effort to find.
Not long ago I was watching someone from Red Hat doing some work in Fedora and saw him use Gnome as designed, pop open the stage, move his window to another desktop to get it out of the way, and then go back to what he was doing. It was fairly quick when he did it, but it seems awkward. Had I not previous done the research in Gnome I would have found his actions there very odd.
I’ve always been a Gnome guy when it comes to Linux, and have been using macOS for a long time. So when Gnome 3 came out I figured it would be great for going between macOS and Linux. But I’m almost at the point where I’m willing to give KDE another shot, even though I’m not really a fan of the start-menu style interface. I know there are panels or apps I could use to simulate a dock, but I always found the add-on docks that are just launchers to kind of suck, since the system really wasn’t designed around them. I’m not sure of modem KDE has other better options. It’s been a long time.
It takes getting used to but it really is much better for multi tasking to stop using alt + tab and minimize altogether. Send one window to desktop 1 and another to desktop 2. Now you have consciously chosen where they are and can go there quickly (i. e. Win+1).
I always put the same program in the same place, just like organizing a toolbox/kitchen. Every tool has it’s place.
Both macOS and Windows have virtual desktops too though.
I’m fine with virtual desktop, just not the forced use of them as the only real tool for window management.
Having dedicated separate desktops for everything doesn’t really work for my workflow. The various pairings of apps I need change too frequently and it ends up feeling like a lot of extra work.
I’ve aspired to work that way, but I think I’d need a job where I was completely on my own where I could structure everything how I wanted and do all the work on my schedule without so much context switching.
I see zero reason why dragging a window to an edge shouldn’t 50% resize it and snap to another window border. Not sure whatever you’re referring to with Apple implementation either, it’s just a floating window UI that will benefit from this. Virtual desktops also have nothing to do with the resizing of windows. Also don’t really understand the unrelated rant against Gnome not having minimize.
macOS has never had a maximize button. Before they added full screen it was a zoom button. When they added maximize, they chose to go with full screen apps in their own virtual desktop to avoid obscuring everything else going or, or forcing people into a full tiling window manager on their main desktop.
Going with window dragging to the edge doesn’t make sense to create a new virtual desktop with only half the screen filled, which is how Apple’s tiling works.
Bro they don’t even have touchscreen support
I feel like the full screen tiling on mac makes up for this. Having used both windows and Mac a lot I think I slightly prefer Mac’s way of splitting full screen windows but I see the appeal of both
I’m not even sure full screen tiling can be called tiling at all.
I mean, I’m never gonna tile my kitchen floor with one GIANT tile.
Technically that’s still tiling, but it completely misses the point lol
Lol you tile your desktop as much as your kitchen floor? I only tend to need to have three things up at most so Mac optimizes my screen space the best since I have 2 monitors, but I’m not on on the multitasking level of many people here it seems
*I think mac os started supporting tiling of non full screen windows as well according to some other comments so maybe kitchen style would work now
I had to use MacOS for 2 years after using Windows for 20. The copious amounts of energy suddenly releasing when thousands of dying stars start to explode in unison can’t compare to the deep, burning hate I feel for MacOS.
But I know there are people who like or love it. No problem with that. It’s just a personal feeling.
You do you, but I just hate MacOS way of tilling. When I’m tilling windows I’m generally multi-tasking and I need my dock to look at a third window from time to time. Having it in full screen renders this impossible and the animation for switching is sooooooooo slooooooow😅
Nothing wrong with that, IMO those features suck and always annoy me when I encounter them by accident. By god I’m going to manually position every fucking window that I use. That keeps them where they should be.
Everything wrong with that lol, also that’s just weird. If I want to have two windows side by side, I’m going to want to drag them to simply the edges of the left/right of the screen.
Don’t get me started on encountering a ‘feature’ by accident, I’m looking at you hot corners 🤮
I was missing the KDE style drag/resize windows with modifier keys, then I found https://penc.app that kinda fills that void
it also does snapping and auto 50% with trackpad gesture
I hate patents.
Patents, copyright and trademark do nothing but make rich people richer and stifle innovation.
They encourage creation. Trademarks are different. In order to do so properly, they should be far more limited.
Right now the forever copyright means no one can remix sixty year old stories
Right now patents are issued for trivial IT “inventions” which stifle competing products.
Trademarks are fine. They are intended to protect you from misleading products. They let Apple sue people that sell stuff which might mislead you into thinking it’s an apple product.
Of course trademarks are also abused, for example Apple uses trademarks to prevent recycling iPhone parts. That couple be fixed.
Right now the forever copyright means no one can remix sixty year old stories
You can’t even reprint 60-year-old stories.
Damn tell that to literally every single Linux WM lol
Funny thing, patents aren’t really international, more like agreements between different patent systems internationally. There are places that will ignore certain patents, and like The Pirate Bay showed, there only needs to be one place where the IP laws don’t jive for it to be available for anyone who wants it - but that’s not the goal of a business, who wants to access as many markets as it is able to sell their product.
That’s, for example, how VLC can use patented codecs. France doesn’t allow for software patents, meaning that as VLC is produced it France, they can use all the codecs they want…
jibe*
Lemme get this straight. Microsoft successfully got a patent for a feature that KDE had before Windows did?
I don’t agree with the Mac one.
The Mac UI is basically windows 3.1.
It’s absolutely awful.
Also, windows will never brick your machine because of a full hard drive. My wife has a shitty MacBook air. She filled the drive completely. The OS can no longer function. It boots and that’s it. You can’t open anything, you can’t delete anything. Every single click says free up HDD space, even deleting files.
It’s so fucking bad.
That’s insane lol, how did they even let an issue lile that slip by… is it just a bug with one version of MacOS or something?
Also to fix it, maybe you could reinstall MacOS? I installed MacOS on a computer I built for a friend years ago, it was a “hackintosh.” If you can install it on all non approved hardware surely it’s possible with an actual Macbook. Just because they’re so absurdly expensive it would be a shame for it to be gone for good. Which is another issue with Apple’s x86 products, you’re paying what like $1500 or more for about $350 of hardware which half the time thermal throttles anyway because they make it thin at the expense of cooling.
Yeah, the issue is, the laptop is full of photos. She took it to Apple after I failed to figure it out. They said they can wipe it but not recover the photos.
It’s just a crap system.
Ahh I see, yeah that’s a tricky situation. Maybe one of these solutions could work? the first paragraph or so says that if you can turn the Mac on, even if you cant do anything, recovering the data might not be as hard
$350 in hardware sure, hardware that someone had to design and especially nowadays with Apple Silicon, that shit doesn’t come cheap
Yeah I guess Apple have there own x86 chips now? Regardless I would rather have a normal computer with an AMD or Intel chip and pay a normal price. I’m sure those CPUs would be better for my purposes anyway
They use ARM now, which is super efficient, the laptops last forever on battery.
If there’s one thing Apple’s done right, it’s Apple Silicon
Huh I haven’t really kept up with consumer tech for the last few years, that’s interesting. Didn’t they have software issues with instruction sets being different? Or does MacOS being Unix based help with that or something. I do know their mobile processors have been competitive especially in single core performance for a while so I’m sure their desktop ones are good.
But, either way they products were still 3x the price of comparable products even when they had crappy x86 Intel CPUs lol. I’m still not very convinced they’re not overpriced sorry to say
They’ve built a translation layer in for compatibility, though it’s not perfectly fast, it’s more than good enough from what I’ve heard.
It being Unix based definitely helps, though don’t doubt Apple wouldn’t have been able to deal with it if that weren’t the case.
The chips really shine in laptops, I’d say desktops are a bit weaker, unless you’re doing something heavily optimized (Final Cut Pro f.e.).
The biggest win is energy consumption, the difference is insane, I recommend you look up a benchmark or two, can range from 2 to 10x more efficient.
I honestly don’t agree though that they’re 3x the price of comparable products, the new Macbook Airs are pretty solid pieces of hardware for an okay sum of money. It really depends on your workload though, if you’re gaming, you’re gonna have a terrible time, if you’re a dev / work in the browser / do some light editing you’re gonna love the battery life and perf’s not gonna hold you back.
Yeah that’s definitely quite interesting, it’s pretty similar to what Microsoft was trying to do with putting Windows on phones I the Early 2010s. I think only really Sony ever adopted it for their phones and they never sold well, but I thought it was interesting at the time.
There’s a decent amount of ARM laptops that are running Windows so maybe that it where the laptop market is heading, it makes sense because the big.LITTLE cores ARM SOCs use are specifically designed to use as little power of course. A Chromebook I had a while ago had a (iirc) Tegra K1 ARM and that had great battery life even for a Chromebook.
As far as pricing on Apple products goes I don’t think you will ever convince me they’re good value for money :P. Sure 3x the price of comparable products is am exaggeration, I would say it’s more like 1.5 or 1.75x the price normally. I mean saying it’s “good for web browsing” essentially just means it doesn’t have good components but these things are priced in the range of what like $1000 right, you could get a nice chromebook that also has an ARM CPU and is good for web browsing as half the price. I’m sure MacOS on ARM is a more useful OS than ChromeOS in terms of the software you can use on it, but for most users that probably isn’t even important.
I think there’s a reason Apple has the largest cash reserves and of any company and the highest market cap (not sure if that’s the case ATM) but they move less products than companies like Samsung, it’s because they have fat profit margins. I’m not saying their products are bad, they’re mostly great and some of their products are genuinely disruptive. I just think they aren’t good value you know. Which is fine, they aren’t really meant to be I don’t think.
It’s also become less and less stable over the years
Your wife’s experience sucks, but having done IT for sizable orgs in the past, my experience was that OS X and Apple’s hardware usually needed less coddling than the various Windows machines. Although they did have some lemon OS releases here and there, and those fucking keyboards from several years back were the devil.
Any OS is going to have anecdotal horror stories. If you want to get a real read on reliability you really need more than a sample size of 1. You need scale.
I was supporting MacOS and Windows systems in an extremely vertical stability situation and I honestly never had to touch the Windows machines that were cobbled together parts computers. All the Mac’s were a constant house of cards waiting to topple. Coming drives constantly for last minute hail Mary solutions, crashing issues that could never be explained without any explanation or hint to what the issues were. Sending systems back and forth for repair. Fuck it, avoid MacOS at all costs
I’ll take my experience out of the picture. If you google Mac and PC enterprise costs, or total cost of ownership, you can find a ton of enterprise studies on this.
Usually the big problem with MacOS is whether it supports the damn software the organization / department needs. And by support, I mean native, not through a janky emulator.
TCO, has been compelling for decades. Folks often report longer lasting workstations, fewer tickets, and less malware. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
All I see is sources that say Windows is less problematic and less expensive long and short term. I found one source that says otherwise called JAMF and that actually turned out to be, well, as they put it “Helping organizations manage and secure an Apple experience that end users love and organizations trust.” So I’m gonna have to omit this guy for bias
Also, windows will never brick your machine because of a full hard drive. My wife has a shitty MacBook air. She filled the drive completely. The OS can no longer function. It boots and that’s it. You can’t open anything, you can’t delete anything. Every single click says free up HDD space, even deleting files.
The almost exact same thing happened to a friend of mine using Windows 11. The machine booted, but he was unable to log in.
Also windows 10 updates has twice deleted all my files, I am now no longer on windows.
edit: Thanks to [email protected] for teaching me something new. (quotes formatting is a thing)
You can format quotes better by starting each quoted line with a >
It looks like
Also windows 10 updates has twice deleted all my files, I am now no longer on windows.
you can format quotes better by starting each quoted line with a >
Thanks
What does it even mean “more dependable”? And the “ease of use” apparently comes at the cost of user control and privacy, the old “walled garden.”
Yeah, the “ease of use” one is complete bullshit. It’s “easy to use” if you’re accustomed to their “walled garden” model and don’t mind everything being automated so as to deepen your dependency on their larger ecosystem.
It’s all bullshit.
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Yes easier to use, it’s already there
jk
GUI? Yes.
UNIX command line? Six of one half dozen of the other versus Linux in my experience.
But yeah. I love i3wm and it’s a real bummer that you can’t do something like that with macos. I use yabai, which is nice, but i3 it ain’t.
MOAR TITLE BARS
Hey MacOS, you know these days most people are using or ultra wide screen monitors and have more space at th–
😡MOAR 😡TITLE 😡BARS 😡
The title bar is so annoying with a vertical monitor. Oh you’re using the bottom window? All your application menus are literally a foot away.
I want NeXTSTEP-style menus back. Much better for big screens than title bars.
THE AMERICAN WAY 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🏈🏈🏈🏈🏈
Lol Apple absolutely does not do that… They just add extra crap nobody wants.
I tried Windows 11 on an old laptop I had. Experience:
“Why the hell is TikTok installed?”
Clicks icon
“Installing TikTok”
“No, you retard!”i thought linux users would be smart enough to know what ads are and their first thought would be to right-click and choose “remove”, instead of opening it
guess i overestimated them a little
So Windows users are so used to ads on their desktops that they feel smug when someone doesn’t recognize them. Weird flex, but okay.
Imagine being so used to ads that you make fun of people who aren’t.
Pretty sad actually.
How about not using slurs?
