I am an Xer who manages a small but crucial team at my workplace (in an EU country). I had a lady resign last week, and I have another who may be about to resign or I may have to let go due to low engagement. They are both Gen Z. Today it hit me: the five years I’ve been managing this department, the only people I’ve lost have been from Gen Z. Clearly I do not know how to manage Gen Z so that they are happy working here. What can I do? I want them to be as happy as my Millennial team members. One detail that might matter is that my team is spread over three European cities.

Happy to provide any clarification if anyone wants it.

Edit. Thanks for all the answers even if a few of them are difficult to hear (and a few were oddly angry?) This has been very helpful for me, much more so than it probably would have been at the Old Place.

Also the second lady I mentioned who might quit or I might have to let go? She quit the day after I posted this giving a week’s notice yesterday. My team is fully supportive, but it’s going to be a rough couple of months.

  • @[email protected]
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    302 years ago

    Does “low engagement” mean “objectively not doing the job you are paying them to do”? Or does it mean “not going ‘above and beyond,’ aka not working unpaid overtime or doing things outside their job description”? Because only one of these warrants letting someone go.

    • DigitalprimateOP
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      142 years ago

      In this case unfortunately it means “objectively not doing the job you are paying them to do.” Like, core job duties.

      • @[email protected]
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        22 years ago

        I’d conduct exit interviews and ask them truthfully. For me, there’s a decent amount of fucking around at our company- the same amount in person at the office as there is remotely. But regardless of location, our work always gets done, in decent quality and in a timely manner. (Gen Z/millenial + boomers)

  • @[email protected]
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    2 years ago

    They are likely quitting because you are not putting forth an effort to build trust with people who are different to you(you’re favouring genx within just a few sentences so that is saying loads about where your glaring blind spots are).

    Bad management is indeed the leading cause of unemployment https://www.hcamag.com/us/specialization/industrial-relations/why-bad-managers-are-contributing-to-the-great-resignation/322106

    https://hbr.org/2022/08/quiet-quitting-is-about-bad-bosses-not-bad-employees

    It’s also possible If genz are unhappy, so are genx. You’re just seeing through the lens of a manager.

    Genx have just been soul destroyed enough (due to years Of being told bad management is part of working, a concept handed down by the boomers to make genx more pliable) to not have any standards to quit which is problematic because they are more likely to sit through abuse without reporting it causing a missing stair syndrome which anyone else is easily picking up on and not wanting to deal with all the fixing of alone.

    So just cuz a genx doesn’t quit doesn’t let you off the hook. You all just found your level. It’s not a good level.

  • @[email protected]
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    2 years ago

    I can tell you why I’m quitting. I’m a millennial. I generally loved the people I work with. I like the work environment. Or I did. We have several old timers quitting right now. The attrition rate is through the roof. Retirement is upon a lot of the old guys and they’re leaving either for better jobs or for ones that are less stressful if they aren’t retiring. The younger ones (millennials and gen z) don’t see the point in sticking around if the older cohort leaves and take their knowledge with them. There’s no one to train us, and worse still, changes to the way that my worksite is managed make staying untenable. We don’t want to be left holding the bag so to speak. Blamed for low productivity after the older guys are all gone and the knowledge gap becomes more apparent. We aren’t really paid well enough, and we don’t see the kind of COLA adjustments we should.

    Additionally, there is a shortage of us, we have expenses on tools and so on that add up and the company I work for doesn’t manage slow times and busy times. So I can’t even count on overtime. Sometimes it’s mandatory. Sometimes it’s nowhere to be found.

    I have brought up multiple issues with safety and legal responsibility and been told by my manager that they need to think about it - repeatedly. I feel like my concerns aren’t being addressed. I want a good home/work balance. I spend 10 hours or more a day at work, and sometimes that’s 4 days a week sometimes it’s 7.

    Worrying and stress are a big part of why I am leaving. I don’t want to be worried or stressed all the time. I don’t want to think about work outside of work.

    You sound like a good boss who is engaged in the development of your employees. That’s good. But sometimes it’s just that we often take jobs because we have to, not because we want to. And when something better comes along we feel like we have to take the chance.

    • @[email protected]
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      52 years ago

      God, when some of our senior team retires, I’m immediately finding a new job. Shit will hit the fan, and the age gap is like, 30 years. And we are probably still understaffed since most of the team is nearing retirement.

      • @[email protected]
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        22 years ago

        Yeah. There’s a lot of new technology but nothing can make up for having thirty years experience on the old tech that’s still in use.

  • @[email protected]
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    22 years ago

    The biggest thing I’ve found that make me want to leave a workplace are condescending attitudes and hovering, the absolute best jobs I’ve had had the attitude " you know what you’re doing let me get out of your way, and I know that if you don’t you’ll come and ask me because I’ll explain without becoming irritable"

  • @[email protected]
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    232 years ago

    Have you tired asking them? When you sit down with the employees to discuss performance the conversation should be two way. You tell them what you expect and how they are doing while they tell you what they expect and how you are doing. Maybe what they want is unreasonable but you won’t know that until they tell you.

  • @[email protected]
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    672 years ago

    One thing to keep in mind is that they’re young and have fewer responsibilities than Millennials and Xers and can afford to float between jobs. I’m not saying all GenZers, but there are ones that still get some form of assistance from their parents and thereby have a safety net. As they age and start families, they may be less inclined to do so.

    Also, maybe they’re not being paid enough to want to stay and feel they can leverage the experience at your workplace to get a better paying position elsewhere.

    Just my thoughts, I’m no expert.

    • @[email protected]
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      2 years ago

      GenZ is pretty aware of the doom and gloom of the world right now, being the most online generation yet. Even without meme culture of being sucked into vapid echo chambers of any political spectrum; they know the world is headed for decline, in their lifetime.

      They want to be able to live comfortably while they can, and if there is too much work/stress and not enough pay, they’ll shop around. Considering what their living costs usually are to maintain a good job, they’re willing to shop around to find decent comfort. They don’t want to spend their best years stuck working barely making ends meet only to watch it all burn around them by the time they find something that allows them to prosper.

  • @[email protected]
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    142 years ago

    Were they being paid at a similar level to their generally older, more experienced co-workers?

    While there certainly could be a wide variety of possibilities, age as a factor has a correlation with so many different things, it’s wise to narrow it down a little bit by eliminating the most obvious possibilities. Financial compensation is an extremely easy first one to consider, as a factor.

  • @[email protected]
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    422 years ago

    How long have they been at your company? A lot of younger people hold zero loyalty to their employer (for better or worse), and combining that with the guidance fo change jobs every two years for maximized income, you’re more likely to see increased turnover regardless of job satisfaction.

    • DigitalprimateOP
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      162 years ago

      None of them were there long, but none of them moved to higher paying jobs either.

        • DigitalprimateOP
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          2 years ago

          Combination of LinkedIn and local contacts. The two cities where the team works are rather tight communities, and you either do what we do or you do banking or FX.

          Edit: I forgot one left to become a personal trainer, so that one kind of doesn’t count I suppose.

      • @[email protected]
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        72 years ago

        Not to say that it’s not good to self-reflect and improve, and not to say that there’s nothing you can improve, but there might be other factors at play.

        I don’t have the numbers to hand, but going off of my own experience and my memory, younger people are far more likely to leave a job than older people. You can try to find the stats - I’m sure they vary by country, for instance, but I changed jobs relatively often early in my career. As my career progressed (and changed from industry to industry), I tended to stay longer.

        Basically, what you want to do is establish the baseline. Is it a you thing, is it a company thing, an industry thing, or just the natural process? It might be a mix, but until you know what you’re dealing with, it’s going to be hard to fix it.

      • @[email protected]
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        62 years ago

        Is there an exit interview? Or anyway to ask them?

        Would be interested to know if there’s something in particular or not. Not sure if you do this, but some leadership places do 360 reviews, where you get staff anonymously give details about. It fucking sucks to get but it can be super helpful.

    • @[email protected]
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      112 years ago

      Loyalty is a two way street and when it comes to jobs the company’s loyalty should come first.

    • @[email protected]
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      292 years ago

      A lot of younger people hold zero loyalty to their employer

      Why be loyal to a company? I’ll bet you anything the company won’t show any loyalty when they decide to save money by laying people off.

  • Throwaway
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    612 years ago

    I would ask her directly, say that you want to know why you lose gen z workers.

    Just remember that they’re still early in their careers, changing jobs is about the only way to get a raise these days.

  • R. J. Gumby
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    452 years ago

    Exit interviews can be a goldmine. Some people who don’t want to burn bridges might hold back and tell you what they think you want to hear but others will tell you exactly what they think.

    • @[email protected]
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      142 years ago

      As a more “typical” zoomer I’d say that we’re a bit skeptical of exit interviews compared to other generations as a result of the whole “not buying into corporations being a family” thing & not appreciating a checkbox approach to employee wellbeing… I know personally if I was leaving a job where (not even because) I felt like any feedback I gave fell into a void and any I received was on rare occasions and only from my direct manager then I’d consider it a bit of a waste of my time to say why I’m leaving, so just try to get through the interview faster

  • PM_me_your_vagina_thanks
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    162 years ago

    Brave of you to assume everyone else is happy, and not just used to putting up with a job because they need the money.

    • DigitalprimateOP
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      2 years ago

      Hey fair enough. But they are, and they tell me all the time because we talk constantly. It was the Zoomers I could not talk to on Skype/whatsapp/signal/slack …whatever platform they wanted. So how did I fail to reach them? That’s what I am wondering as a manger because, yeah a job is just a job, but it doesn’t have to suck, and I as a manager can make it suck much less. It’s within my power, but I cannot do the thing if you don’t ask for the thing despite multiple attempts. There must be something wrong with how I attempt to engage them.

  • @[email protected]
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    72 years ago

    Why are you pandering to a generation that has proven to be lazy and unreliable? Why not focus on better candidates to begin with and target older employees? Seems like Zoomers are getting a disproportionate amount of focus while at the same time are rather sub par when it comes to productivity.

    And folks can downvote all they want, but that is just more proof that I am right.

    • Bo7a
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      142 years ago

      I’ll bite. How do downvotes prove you are right in any way?

      • @[email protected]
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        2 years ago

        Yeah that’s always a stupid thing to say but it literally doesn’t even make any sense here at all lmao

    • @[email protected]M
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      12 years ago

      Calling an entire generation lazy and unreliable isn’t a helpful contribution to the community. I’m going to leave this comment up, but please be aware that it was a line ball whether to remove. Please be conscious of Rule 1.

    • NumbersCanBeFun
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      152 years ago

      My office team is all zoomers and they work their ass off. I have no idea what you are talking about.

    • DigitalprimateOP
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      82 years ago

      You’re getting downvoted and rightfully so, but you have accidentally made a good point. Believe me, as an older Xer I am very aware of the age issue and look at all CVs (resumes) no matter what the date on the college graduation says and have interviewed people even older than I am.

    • partial_accumen
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      352 years ago

      Why are you pandering to a generation that has proven to be lazy and unreliable?

      Complaining about younger generations is an age old pattern:

      " They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things – and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning – all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything – they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else."

      -Aristotle, 4th century BC

  • @[email protected]
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    52 years ago

    This reminds me of what a relative told us about one of their first days at work. Some HR manager apparently told them that he wishes for everyone present to get into the situation where they’d leave the company at some point. He admitted that he probably shouldn’t say something like that as HR person but they’re all still young and it’s a good thing to broaden their experience and see other companies/company cultures etc.

    Furthermore, when seeing memes and other posts about things like the housing market I’m not surprised that lots of people steer away from being loyal to a company and towards making more money (though that doesn’t seem to be the case here based on what I saw from other comments)

  • Norgur
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    182 years ago

    Perhaps you got hung up on that whole “Generations”-Thing. Generations cannot be defined by common attributes as easily as it might seem. Perhaps the explanation is less the “generation” but more the age of the people? Younger people are more likely to quit a job because they have less responsibilities that would keep them from doing so if they start to dislike their current job. Gen X/Millenials are now all in prime family-establishing age and thus more likely to prioritize job security over job excitement. Younger people might weigh this differently and switch around to try other companies/other fields.

  • @[email protected]
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    1712 years ago

    I’m a millennial but have insight. Think about the 90s. Didn’t even have MapQuest yet. No cell phones.

    Okay, now you’re at work, and your sister miscarries her pregnancy. When do you discover this? 6pm? 8pm? Later that week?

    Gen Z finds out between customers. Or emails.

    In the idle time you used to spend daydreaming about your girlfriend or lackthereof, gen Z is learning about wildfires that will reduce their air quality. They’re googling rent worldwide to figure out if it’s time to seriously consider moving somewhere cheaper and colder.

    What am I getting at?

    We as a society get ever more connected. We are therefore ever less present from our 9-5. There is so much going on that is relevant to us, and an 8 hour chunk of my day is really asking too much to sacrifice.

    If your employees are at a computer, let tell them outright it’s totally okay to watch Netflix or YouTube, or reddit, or lemmy, whatever as long as the work is getting done on time.

    If your employees are serving customers, let them take frequent 10 minute breaks to use their phone or be away from humans.

    Let them know you understand they have WAY more going on in their lives than your job which barely pays bills. Then, act that way.

    But also, gen Z knows that no one gives raises like new bosses. So, don’t expect them to stick around long.

    • @[email protected]
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      62 years ago

      Isn’t it insane how managers (and professors for that matter) tend to act like you’re not a person with a whole life and personality outside your job

    • @[email protected]
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      82 years ago

      This is an amazing rundown of the significant differences, and more importantly, similarities between these 2 generation, I think you did a really good job of explaining it clearly, and I found it very illuminating, thank you.

    • @[email protected]
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      292 years ago

      Okay, now you’re at work, and your sister miscarries her pregnancy. When do you discover this? 6pm? 8pm? Later that week?

      Gen Z finds out between customers. Or emails.

      When do millennials find out?

      • @[email protected]
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        492 years ago

        A week late from someone you haven’t talked to in years even after talking to your sister twice since then.

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        Exact same, but we’re conditioned enough to still wait until after 5 PM to go do anything about it. If anything, I admire gen Z for this.

      • @[email protected]
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        2 years ago

        Same time but we had a transition period, smaller time frame depending where they slot in that generation. Gen Z has had since/before they entered the workforce.

        Explaining the transition of technology to my boy sometimes reminds me of when I was a kid and heard adults talking about a full room computer.

    • HelloThere
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      312 years ago

      I agree with most of this, but this bit

      If your employees are serving customers, let them take frequent 10 minute breaks to use their phone or be away from humans.

      Is comically absurd.

      GenZ are not the first people to have things they’d rather be doing than work, or to be tired due to human interaction. The latter is called emotional labour and has been a thing across all service industries for literally a hundred plus years.

      I’m not saying that people don’t need breaks, everyone does, especially in jobs which are physically/mentally tiring, but to say people need frequent breaks solely to check their phone is derisible.

        • HelloThere
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          42 years ago

          Absolutely - or as I generally phrase it, to relax and think about things more thoroughly.

    • @[email protected]
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      92 years ago

      If your employees are at a computer, let tell them outright it’s totally okay to watch Netflix or YouTube, or reddit, or lemmy, whatever as long as the work is getting done on time.

      … seriously? I cannot imagine ever watching YouTube or even Netflix on the job

      • DigitalprimateOP
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        62 years ago

        Actually my two most senior people are permanent WFH and I’m quite sure they do this (and I do not care at al).

        The ones in our offices, yeah that would not go over well with their colleagues, you are right.

      • BeckonJM
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        2 years ago

        I work on a helpdesk, my phone rings around 8-12 times per day, and most calls are less than 10 minutes. I work a 7.5 hour shift, and at most am on the phone for an hour or so total on an average day. I’m also in an office cubicle farm, not working from home, or behind a series of closed doors.

        Lately, between taking calls, I’ve been reading books, looking at my phone, practicing French, and watching episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation on my iPad. The upper management knows I, and my coworkers, kill time this way between calls.

        We’re efficient problem solvers who get our jobs done with no issue, so the downtime is spent how we see fit.

      • @[email protected]
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        32 years ago

        It’s really not an crazy prospect.

        Personally I’m going into Healthcare, and the career I opted to go for has jobs which you absolutely might be bored out of your mind and literally sitting. That’s not for me, Personally, and I’m going towards more of a high adrenaline environment.

        Always nice knowing I have a potentially relaxing fallback option.

      • @[email protected]
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        32 years ago

        This is a very convenient trick for some with ADHD. A known distraction can drown out the noise that would otherwise be very distracting. When I listen to podcasts, I work about 3 times faster. And my current boss was so pleased with my work that he put a TV in my shop, for me to use while I work. I don’t use it because, these days, I prefer podcasts and audiobooks, but I do put on sports games because that’s what he likes to see. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯