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Rishi Sunak is considering introducing some of the world’s toughest anti-smoking measures that would in effect ban the next generation from ever being able to buy cigarettes, the Guardian has learned.
Whitehall sources said the prime minister was looking at measures similar to those brought in by New Zealand last December. They involved steadily increasing the legal smoking age so tobacco would end up never being sold to anyone born on or after 1 January 2009.
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About bloody time. Cigarettes are disgusting and do nothing but immense harm to those who smoke them, and those around them.
Sunak is a tosser, but cigarettes are a no brainer. Sure, old boomers still smoke them, but only the dumbest young people still smoke, and most of them use e-cigs (which are still bad, but nowhere remotely near as bad).
Several of my grandparents died before I could ever know them because of smoking, for example. Fuck smoking. Smoking kills.
Two of my grandparents died before my birth because they smoked. I smoked. I still vape. I hate that companies make money on addiction. This is still stupid.
The lesser evil is well-regulated companies than whatever-goes black market sources.
Lung Cancer for Me but not Thee!
Typical, have your fun then pull up the ladder on the next generation!!!
The (stopped?) trend in the US had been to tax cigs to make them unaffordable. Just before the last major hike, my brand was about $5/pack. Now it is $10-12. So glad I quit.
Is that a viable strategy, to continue tax/price hikes?
I was paying $14 a pack when I quit 6 weeks ago in NYS. The gum is working out great so far and I feel so much better. 17 years smoking regularly. They should be banned everywhere, sorry fellow smokers. It’s a disgusting, nasty habit that is incredibly hard to break.
I’ve been on zyns for a while now, my lungs do feel so much better. It’s hard to quit the substance, but it’s easier than ever to take it in without inhaling anything.
Good for you! Enjoy your journey to better health!
They’ve been doing that in New Zealand. A pack is now $50. Violent robbery of gas stations and corner stores for them have massively increased
Did it stop you smoking? If so, then yes it worked.
Every 10% increase in cigarette tax results a 4% reduction in consumption among adults, and a 7% decrease amongst youth. Source
It was a minor motivator for me. Bigger ones were things like not dying and my son.
Interesting stats, thanks.
It’s a hella regressive tax though… and we know social ad campaigns actually work.
I went to Niagara Falls in 2004, and I was a little perplexed with the stop smoking campaign flyers attached to the back of individual cigarette packs (pictures of rotten teeth, black lung, etc.). Ended going over to New York to buy smokes because they were SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive and without the flyers.
I mean taxes change habits, there is no doubt about that. Some people quit, some people buy illegal cigarettes imported from the south, others buy Indian cigarettes, others stop smoking, some roll their own with pipe tobacco that no one has ever smoked In a pipe. But the ad campaigns worked surprisingly well for long term smoke cessation. They really did nip it in the butt
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British prime minister
Thanks. What happened to Boris Johnson? Is he gone already? Am I seriously this out of touch?
He got caught up in a scandal, finally, then we got liz truss for a few weeks that caused an economic and energy crisis. A head of lettuce lasted longer than her. Then rishi took over from her.
I’m Rishi Sunak
Oh okay. Don’t just “consider it”. Fucking do it.
Alcohol is a bigger problem in the UK.
Not drinking at all and drinking far less is actually trending up significantly with younger demographics in the UK. It’s the older generations who’ve got the real problems. A law like this wouldn’t do anything to help with that.
I wouldn’t count too much on younger generations drinking less forever. Smoking was in decline here for years for younger demographics but recently went back up. The same might happen for alcohol. You never know.
Alcohol is a problem most places. Best thing I ever did for myself was quit drinking entirely.
Smoking is one of the very few things everyone is better off not doing.
Same with alcohol, but I don’t think we’re allowed to say that yet. Maybe one day!
Do not disagree it not good. But until you can indicate passive damage to non drinkers. You will find it hard to argue for the ban in society. Only actions of drinkers that may effect other will ever be considered an issue.
Only actions of drinkers that may effect other will ever be considered an issue.
Yeah and we should ban cars to get rid of drunk driving tbh
In any context, this is the most infuriatingly fucking stupid argument there is.
“well we should ban…”
Instantly stupid. just add human.
If we ban oxygen all crimes would stop. And the planet would soon recover.
Fortunately we are democratic enough not to listen to outright stupid ideas. Or to punish all for the stupidity of some.
American prohibition and the war on drugs has shown that toal band like that really just make consumption worse while piling a whole new slew of problems onto an existing issue.
I wholeheartedly agree with ya there, but would smoking be carried on in the same fashions as drugs and booze?
I quit years ago after thirty years of smoking and while it was hard as fuck, and i was nasty as a human for a while, I didn’t get the urge to find plug for smokes or off up ass for a pack of butts. Or kill anyone for that matter.
Here in Canada the jump in price has reservation smokes selling like fucking crazy. My old Racist as fuck neighbor bent his morals just enough to say his buying them was justified. I am pretty sure old Dar would drop and blow a herpes staff for a smoke, so I am probably already wrong to question it.
While people may not be willing to kill or rob someone to get a pack of smokes, there will absolutely be a black market for them that will be rife with unsavory characters that will. I live an hour away from a recreational marijuana state and it has destroyed the local black market for pot as anyone who wants to get high can just drive across the state line and get their own pot. No more sketchy drug dealers pushing other substances, no more police stings to catch teenagers buying dope.
Buying controlled and reasonably dangerous substances from licensed retailers like a dispensary, grocery store, or even a gas station is a lot safer for everyone than trying to keep tabs on a black market. The danger of prohibition wasn’t alcoholics trying to find their next drink, it was mobsters like Capone trying to dominate the black market for popular goods.
Edit since i misread what you meant: Sure tobacco is on it’s way out as is, but nicotine consumption is still skyrocketing. I dont see how banning tobacco sales for anyine born after a certain date like Sunak is proposing will help anything. People under 30 are already way less likely to smoke tobacco but consume unhealthy quantities of nicotine anyway.
This just isn’t true though. Other countries ban alcohol and it doesn’t turn into what happened during American alcohol prohibition. Nor does it mean banning needs to be done like it was done during that period either. You people gotta start thinking a bit deeper about stuff.
What countries have successfully banned alcohol? Besides Muslim countries that employ capital punishment.
The Chiapas state of Mexico.
Lol sure. The worst country in the world for narcotics trafficking?
Do you pick out Alabama when you talk about the entirety of the US? Or do you tend to be less xenophobic and less racist?
If they want to ban tobacco let them first legalise weed, acid, and psylocybin. That’d be a fair trade.
Why are cocaine fent oxy schedule 2?
Legitimate medical uses, at least for fent and oxy
Then why’s marijuana schedule 3?
Cocaine can be used in dentistry in a gel if you have certain allergies
The derivates of the cocaine extracted from the coca leaves imported by Coca Cola are used in a variety of ways; from dentistry to eye surgery.
This seems like an American thing. We don’t need to a soft drink company to import medical supplies or materials. But I didn’t know it was used in eye surgery, I’m interested in learning more about that.
It’s a global thing. Everyone repurposes side products of a process. Coca-Cola isn’t allowed to have cocaine in the final product so it is extracted out and sold. (Coca-Cola doesn’t actually do this their coca leaf supplier Stepan Company does).
It is a very American story.
Coca Cola uses coca leaves for the flavor. The government banned cocaine because of racism. Coca Cola had to remove the cocaine because of capitalism and made an arrangement with the government instead of going out of business thanks to corruption.
I remember when they had the same idea around 2014, to ban smoking for anyone born in the UK from 2000 onwards. That would have been easier to enforce.
Legalise weed but ban tobacco!
Just saying.
Tried going cold Turkey today, made it like 14 hours.
It’s the right thing to do. It’s a very hard addiction to escape. I know a guy who beat heroin and can’t beat nicotine.
I recently quit. I’m about 6 weeks since my last patch. A relapse is exceedingly unlikely.
Going cold turkey would never have worked for me. Cut down > switch to patches > taper off.
I knew someone who kicked a cocaine habit and stopped drinking alcohol, but died of cancer because he couldn’t quit smoking.
One day at a time. Keep trying. It’s absolutely worth it.
It took me years to quit, I slowly cut cigs out of my daily activities.
Good on you! That’s awesome. thankfully I’m not inhaling anything anymore, but damn if it’s hard to quit the substance entirely. Big ups to everyone who made it out though.
Yeah its tough, just do your best and stick with it. Now my only nicotine is from a cigar a few times a year.
Nice, what type? I’m not a cigar guy, but if I ever encounter a Cohiba I’m going to try it.
Just random cigars from samplers like Rocky Patel, Oliva, Romeo y Julieta. Had a Cohiba my buddy brought back a while back. It was good but not mind blowing.
Do it. First decision I’ve heard him make that isn’t about making profit for himself… unless he has invested in vape shops … ah that makes more sense. Fuck Rishi
we have already taken steps to reduce smoking rates. This includes providing 1 million smokers in England with free vape kits via our world-first ‘swap to stop’ scheme
Which family member do you think invested heavily in whichever company got the contract for these vapes?
YES WASTE MORE MONEH ON WAR ON DRUGS!!! It’s not like it’s completely ineffective and is literally killing people🥰😜
People saying that’s a good decision are simply unqualified to talk about it, they’re completely clueless and willingly ignorant, just like sunak and his fking delusional confidence. How is it not obvious that people will refer to black market tobacco? Has history AND WHATS HAPPENING LIKE RIGHT NOW IN GOD DAMN REAL TIME not fking taught you all what banning drugs does? Because of people like you other people will die. That’s also YOUR responsibility, not just theirs. It’s YOU who affect their decision. And it’s not just the fact that it’s black market and people will just die, it’s also the fact that underground, potentially mafia-like organisations will have MORE POWER. You all LEGIT make me believe in totalitarian governments. I simply can not handle the confident ignorance.
Like imagine a society where 1/4 of the population is forced to quit cold turkey. Y’all are fking insane
It’s very easy to compare this to The Prohibition but the reality is alcohol is much more popular than tobacco. For someone who doesn’t drink, understanding the appeal of drinking in a social setting is way easier. With this law I don’t think there is a need for a black market of tobacco like there was with alcohol as it will still be available to purchase, just more controlled. The effect will be a reduction in exposure in younger generations that simply won’t find the need to start smoking. This works and in my province of Quebec since laws have been getting stricter the only people that still smoke are poor or raised by heavy smoker parents.
Smoking is still more popular than soft drugs, and the same prohibition logic argues against marijauna laws quite nicely.
Also, doing home made alcohol is pretty easy and pretty dangerous too, this is why is better to have it legal, regulated and restricted. Try to grow up your own tobacco.
Growing tobacco is surprisingly easy depending on your environment, I guess. I know it definitely grows in the desert where I lived at the time.
The harder part is actually curing it correctly after harvesting it. The curing process requires the right humidity and temperature and takes a while.
You still gonna need a lot of time and effort to growth enough for normal consumption.
“WELL WHAT ABOUT” shut up, oh shut up. Ban drug = force people to do unsafe things to get an unsafe version of the drug. It’s simple. That’s how it worked, that’s how it works RIGHT NOW, and that’s how it will continue to work unless something fundamental changes in the society. Exposure won’t be reduced. Kids get tobacco illegally anyways. Nothing is changing for them. Next step after that is underground production of tobacco products which means PEOPLE WILL DIE
My first cigarette was bought from a black market dealer involved with the uda my countries main drug gang. Prohibition doesn’t work
I think it’s a good decision.
Well maybe think a bit better idk? Maybe learn to read too? Cuz I literally pointed out objective (emphasis on this word) reasons why that’s a bad idea
It’s a great idea actually.
Imagine trying to troll people on this topic😐 bruh
Did you read the article? The legislation steadily increases the legal age limit so that kids don’t get hooked on tobacco in the first place. No one will have to “quit cold turkey”.
One of the biggest issues with the war on drugs is that it criminalizes the use of certain drugs. This doesn’t do that.
As for your claim about a black market and a mafia:
we have already taken steps to reduce smoking rates. This includes providing 1 million smokers in England with free vape kits via our world-first ‘swap to stop’ scheme
They’re still providing people with tobacco, just a less-deadly kind. Comparing that to the war on drugs is ridiculous. The point of the war on drugs isn’t to get people to quit using dangerous drugs recreationally, every reasonable person wants that. The point of it is to control minorities and poor people. That’s absolutely not what’s happening here.
None of this is to defend Sunak btw, he’s a broken clock that happens to be right in this instance.
You left out the part where kids get tobacco anyways and this will just make it unsafe for them and that WILL cost their lives. It WILL kill someone’s child.
Btw war on tobacco is war on drugs. Tobacco is a drug. Making it irrelevant in people’s minds is the way, not formally banning it
All these progressively restrictive laws have been good to me. I’m of the generation who remembers smoking on planes, and my grandmother smoking in her hospital bed.
I was probably at two packs a day in the nineties because it was cheap and acceptable.
These days, a pack will last me a week, and I only ever smoke in my backyard at home, in clothing dedicated to the habit that get washed separately from my other clothes.
Bans and social stigma have forced me into near non-smoking without ever consciously trying.
Do I ever have an occasional night of celebratory drinking where I exceed that trend? You betcha, and I don’t feel sorry about it. But I’m glad that I’m not the chain smoking beef jerky with a voice three octaves lower than it should be that my grandparents were.
I still believe that people should be able to enjoy vice and that you shouldn’t be completely ostracized from society for not living a perfect organic free range fair trade intoxicant free perfectly vegan whatever else life.
But to phase out tobacco as it has been going, I have found that I haven’t minded at all in the long term.
(As to the occasional celebratory night, for completely different reasons, I hardly drink anymore. Also was not a conscious choice or effort. It just lost its attraction for me)
What’s a “progressively restrictive law”?
Stopping cigarette companies giving away packs of 5 outside colleges if you could prove you were over 16 was a sensible progressively restrictive law that followed to them not being displayed in shops and having warnings in the packets for example.
Man, my freshman year of college, in California of all places, we had cigarette vending machines in our freshman dorm. The only smoking policy in your dorm room was that your roommate had to be cool with it. Zero designated non-smoking rooms. There was a smoking section inside the cafeteria. You couldn’t smoke during class, but the professors could smoke in their offices and we had a coffee bar in the building that was one huge cloud.
How things have changed, eh?
A law that is slightly more restrictive than the last that will be followed by a slightly more restrictive law.
The first smoking bans were sections of airplanes
Then they were for domestic flights under two hours
Then they were for domestic flights
Then they were for all flights
The first restaurant bans were only the dining area
Then they included the bar area
Then they hit stand alone bars
The smoking bans you know today did not hit all at once. They got progressively more restrictive over a period of many years.
In the US, cigarette smoking had already peaked and begun to decline before smoking bans. The bans almost certainly accelerated the decline, though.
Back many many moons ago in the year 2008 I traveled to the great city Vancouver to see a friend. They took me to a venue to see a band and cigarette smoking wasn’t allowed.
But you bet your fucking ass there was plenty of people smoking weed. Which seems to be just fine…breathing in second hand smoke…which is the main reason these tabacco restrictions are in place.
EDIT
I don’t care if you smoke weed, only it has the same second hand smoke issue tabacco does and should follow the same rule.
It smells so much worse too
I remember going to restaurants as a kid and being asked if we wanted the smoking or non-smoking section. It seems kind of surreal these days that this was ever a thing. I’m probably the last generation to remember indoor smoking.
Ban weed smoking too.
Things like edibles, sure let 'em have it, but we’ve only just gotten to the point where life doesn’t smell like nicotine anymore, we shouldn’t be replacing that with everything smelling like weed.
I’ve been suggesting they do this in the states for a while now.
I smoke. I like smoking, and I don’t plan to quit. But it’s obvious that most people want smoking to go away. They keep increasing the price of cigarettes, they keep banning smoking in new areas, and every time they’ll tell you it’s to keep kids from smoking. It’s a lie - they want everyone to stop smoking.
So fine. Set a date, and make it illegal for anyone born after that date to smoke. Then leave us smokers alone. If it’s as bad for us as you say it is, we’ll all die soon anyway.
Will some people born after that date smoke? Sure. But the majority won’t. And it’ll be a constant annoyance for them that they can’t just go buy a carton at the store, which will encourage them to quit. I’d feel sorry for them, but I was told it was bad for me, not that I’d be standing outside in -50° weather puffing as fast as I can because I can’t smoke in my hotel room, or that I’d spend more on cigarettes than I do electricity. They at least know they’ll never be allowed to smoke.
You did that with alcohol. Prohibition does not work. It isn’t working with drugs; it will never work with cigarettes either.
Prohibition works most of the time. Do you know where to get your hands on some black tar heroin? I don’t, nor do most people.
Prohibition of alcohol took something that was popular and made it illegal. Of course it failed. Making tobacco illegal would fail if they did it for everyone. I’m suggesting they make it illegal for people who aren’t already addicted to it.
Edit: heroin, not heroine. Thanks, autocorrect.
Kids are already not allowed to smoke or purchase nicotine products but millions of teenagers are still addicted to nicotine and vape like crazy. How can you enforce a ban for an entire age group? And how could you possibly justify an arbitrary ban that allows half the population to purchase and consume something and prohibits the ither half? A law that bans women from purchasing tobacco because it is harmful for a fetus would be struck down by every court in the nation, so why would a ban that discriminates against adults based kn age be any different?
Well, I guess we’ll just make it illegal for everyone and the old timers like me just have to deal with it. Thanks, I hate it.
I have no idea what black tar heroin is, but I am fairly sure I could find someone who sells drugs of any type locally. As I said the war on drugs has failed. Watch this video from an ex-UK policeman. This is what happens when you make things illegal.
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The fact that you don’t know what it is is proof enough that the prohibition against it works. I have no interest in watching your video.
And besides, you’re missing the point. Prohibition of tobacco is coming. I’m not arguing in its favor. I’m suggesting that if they must prohibit tobacco, they phase it out instead of banning it outright.
Prohibition of tobacco is coming.
I have never seen Labour push this policy and Sunak has no time. I feel you are deluded on this one. I should add I am very much an anti smoking person. I just see this as a sensible option.
I would love to be wrong on that, but I don’t think I am.
they keep banning smoking in new areas, and every time they’ll tell you it’s to keep kids from smoking. It’s a lie - they want everyone to stop smoking.
That’s just not the case, at all. I’m a very recent ex-smoker and non-smoking areas absolutely helped me stop, but not for the reason you might think.
In Australia it’s the same - cigarettes getting more expensive and the number of places you can smoke reducing.
No one ever suggested that it’s to keep kids from smoking - the message has always been pretty clear: every cigarette is doing harm, so less places to smoke means less harm.
The main benefit of non-smoking areas is that it made me realise that withdrawals and cravings are really no big deal. About 5 years ago I was terrified of trying to stop because I had convinced myself that the withdrawals would be awful. Then I took a job at a place where it just wasn’t possible to smoke even on breaks. The most noticeable thing was that getting through the entire day without a smoke was actually no big deal - the symptoms were very manageable.
So, to say “they” want everyone to smoke is an odd take IMO. The assumption is that everyone want’s to stop - and non-smoking areas assist with that.
I don’t really believe that you do enjoy smoking. I mean, sitting with friends and having a few beers and smokes is certainly an enjoyable activity - but it’s not the smoking that makes it enjoyable. Anyhow, even if you did truly enjoy smoking, I guess you unfortunately just have to cater for the majority who do not.
I think this is a cultural difference. In the US it’s not uncommon for common sense health regulation to get ignored - such as the amount of sugar in soda - because people cause an uproar about freedoms being taken away.
But if you say it’s about the health of sweet, innocent children… well then suddenly it’s a lot more palatable for the public.
So here in the US, you can want everyone to stop smoking, but make the case that it is for the benefit of children in order to help achieve that goal.
Non-smoking area are also there so that the people around smokers don’t have to breathe cancer they never asked for.
A absolutely hate how every time I go eat on a restaurant terrace the experience is ruined by some guy next to me smoking…
Yeah. That is one of the purported reasons for non-smoking areas, all though your actual risk of cancer must be pretty minor surely.
If you worked in a bar then yeah - breathing the smoke-filled air all shift for many years might effect your risk profile.
Catching a whiff of tobacco not so much.
Passive smoking is health problem as soon it’s indoor, but even when it’s not a health issue, smoke fucking stinks.
Maybe things are different down under, but here in the states they very much do use the “keep kids from smoking” excuse. Every. Single. Time.
I don’t mind going outside or whatever so much. That wasn’t the point I was making. When I started smoking, you could still smoke in restaurants, airplanes, offices, etc. They still had ashtrays at the end of every aisle at the supermarket when I was a kid. Picking up smoking wasn’t a radical thing to do.
They’ve pushed us out to the fringes, but that’s fine. But their goal is to eliminate smoking. What I’m saying is that enough is enough. Let us smoke off away from everyone and die out.
You don’t like smoking; you’re addicted to a harmful drug. You have nicotine induced Stockholm syndrome.
Oh, you’re a mind reader now? You don’t know me, buddy.
Are you sure about this?
