- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
Unity May Never Win Back the Developers It Lost in Its Fee Debacle::Even though the company behind the wildly popular game engine walked back its controversial new fee policy, the damage is done.
You must log in or register to comment.
Of course they won’t. They basically took a hammer to their reputation and completely smashed it to bits. All for that gacha game scratch that will also diminish as those developers move future projects to a new engine.
I’m reminded of a motivational poster at my first job. “Unhappy customers may not complain. They just won’t come back.”
‘90s: “And that’s why we need to make sure they’re happy with our products and services”
2020s: “And where the F they wanna go? We’re a monopoly and they’re locked into our tech ecosystem”
That’s how I do. I don’t like to publicly complain unless I was clearly ripped off.
Your first job had a weird idea of motivation.
“You might suck, but no one will tell you!”
Goes to show that destroying trust is quite easy, but earning trust is very hard.
For the best. Companies need to learn to tread carefully when dealing with customers, they can’t be allowed to get off lightly for trying anti-consumer practices like this.
Actually the reason this didn’t work out is because they are in the B2B, not business to consumer business.
Turns out other businesses aren’t fond of being asked to pay a dollar to reload, who knew?
They keep walking back further and their stock prices just keep plummeting. I would like to say I hope the CEO, who is the former CEO of EA, for any who aren’t aware, gets fired for this. But we all know that no matter how hard he messes up, some other business will pay him millions in incentives to pick him up.
It’s not like getting fired as a CEO is a negative. They leave with a golden parachute and get hired elsewhere
In another thread someone said the board is made up of assholes, so don’t get your hopes up for any positive changes…
I tried to do some googling, but googling and sourcing out the history of each board member is cumbersome. So instead I will just post this snippet from a reddit post by u/Xijit
I apologize in advance for the length.
"Yes, John is undoubtedly an asshole, since they don’t let you be a CEO unless you are one. But he has also been the CEO of Unity since 2014 and oversaw its progress from “that engine that lets you port your game to anything” to “the platform that every single mobile game is made on and the backbone of the inde developer market.” The main reason why so many of you are only hearing about him being the CEO now, is because he HAD (past tense) been doing a relatively good job.
What changed … In 2020 Unity went public, and a bunch of shit heads bought their way onto Unity’s board of directors. Ultimately the CEO works for the Board, so when these new bosses tell him to do something self destructive, he does it.
Here are the names you should be talking about instead of John:
Tomer Bar Zeev
Roelof Botha
Egon Durban.
(Edit: I forgot to say that they are Board members)
Remember IronSource, that dog shit monetization company that absolutely everyone in the industry dumped, and was circling the drain until Unity bought them for $4.4 billion? Tomer Bar Zeev is the founder of IronSource, and following the merger he became Unity’s 3rd president (along with John and Marc) … yes, this is the asshole who sold a package of malware under the guise of monetization software & ultimately is the root cause of this install tax. Given IronSource’s history of malware, I feel that it is safe to say that the Unity runtime will likely start getting flagged by antivirus programs and casually request admin rights during installation.
How Unity got infected with IronSource, is that Sequoia Capitol and Silver lake pledged to invest $1 billion into Unity if the deal went through. Frankly, the math doesn’t add up for Unity to trade $4.4 billion to buy a plague blanket of a company, only to receive $1 billion in return. Especially when a rival mobile monetization company offered to pay Unity $17 billion if they called off the IronSource deal & merge with them instead. Unless that $1b was for the sake of C-suite bonuses, in which case all of this makes perfect sense.
But who the Hell is Roelof Botha & Egon Durban, and why are they important names? Roelof is a Director of Sequoia, Egon is the founder of Silver Lake, and both of them have ties back to Elon Musk … which is pretty obvious for how fast Unity has caught on fire.
If Egon’s name is familiar, it is because he was on Twitter’s Board and was the one who pushed to have them accept the deal, & then got thrown off the board when they realised that he was just spying for Elon during the resulting lawsuit. He also was the one who helped Elon with his fake " Taking Tesla private" scam.
Roelof was the CFO of PayPal before it got acquired and has a long history of being involved with mergers that result in a lot of money for some, but absolute shit deals for end users and employees.
Looping back to the top … I think John is done with Unity, but not in the “yay, us consumers have protested hard enough to get him fired” kind of way the internet wants. I think he was done in 2020 when he went from being the guy actually running the company, to the guy who answers to a room full of investment fuck heads (of the 13 board members, 11 are investment managers), and then gets to take the blame for their shit decisions. I feel like the reason why he sold his stock is because he knew this was a shit idea that was going to tank the company, but these assholes wouldn’t listen. So he cashed out his stock and will be announcing his retirement at the start of Q4.
Don’t be shocked when Tomer Bar Zeev gets named as his replacement."
(P.S does anyone know how to quote inline and keep the paragraph spacing?)
This is completely unsurprising. Often when a company goes to shit it’s the board of directors, ultimately, they control the CEO and the rest of the executive team at a company. I feel horribly for the indie devs that were using Unity, though there’s always a chance for this to happen to proprietary software it still sucks when it does happen.
The quoting in Lemmy is block quotes, so it appears you’d have to quote each paragraph individually. Definitely inconvenient, I wonder if there’s a way they could rework the system.
Unity could get them back if they fired their CEO, John Riticello
don’t forget: calling devs idiots
Nope, don’t care.
deleted by creator
We don’t know if they can do it. They walked their plan back before it could be tested in court. There’s a very good chance that what they were doing (particularly their changing the terms of an agreement without any action from the other parties) was illegal.
Imagine if Microsoft did the same thing with Windows? Allowing software companies to just suddenly change the rules like that could be a terrible precedent. They would probably get hit with antitrust for like the 50th time since they opened their doors.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Unity doesn’t deserve them back.
GOOD
If they had just listened to the feedback, realized their mistake, even if it took a while, and then backpedaled to the current compromise, they probably wouldn’t have hurt their business much. It was the disdain they showed for small developers, basically saying they weren’t going to address issues like reinstallation and other things that would make a big difference to smaller projects. And then quietly altering their TOS, to make the small developers that made the platform able to exist, have to start paying even if the contract at the time protected them from the fees if they didn’t upgrade.
This kind of disregard for the people who made your company what it is today, just to make some short term profit is exactly why Reddit, Twitter, and so many other tech companies are falling apart right now. It’s just happening to such extremes that it’s not just let’s price gouge our customers and patrons, but let’s actively commit fraud to squeeze out every possible dime from all but our biggest customers and throw them away. Fortunately, places like Lemmy and Mastodon are here to catch them. Hope they can make it.
I think it’s vital that the community now makes the effort to recreate what was made around Unity with the voluntary support material and everything that made it a reference of approachability, over with an open source alternative that may become definitive.
Going to Unreal Engine, even though it might look like the obvious move atm, might be near sighted, and unwise.
What’s preventing this from happening again down the line with another big corporation? Monetary incentives always change.
Is it Godot? Maybe.
The community needs it’s blender, and now may be the best opportunity to do it. It’s a matter of organization and foresight. It’s been proven to be doable.
Just wanted to point out that, actually, Blender has an integrated game engine. It’s not very feature rich, but it integrates it’s 3D renderer seamlessly. Just find it ironic, that Blender is really a candidate to be gamedev new Blender.
Godot is the only really viable alternative, IMO. No other open source engine comes close.
It’s the trust thermocline again. When will companies learn to do more ground level research before pulling bullshit like this?
Why would they? When you choose a platform to sink multiple years of effort into, you look for stability, for example the stability of not having a history of trying to rugpull their customers.
The thing is, they don’t even have to lose all their developers. They just have to lose enough so that introductory gamedev classes start being taught in Godot, indie devs start seeing Godot as a viable option and employers start posting listings looking for Godot experience. Unity was the default engine for lower-budget games for years, and now that’s gone.
I hope to see a lot of the features added to Godot that Unity refugees have been requesting and working on (because, yknow, open-source) and would expect to see at least 25% Godot 25% Unity 50% Unreal in the job market. Although honestly it is more likely that Unreal takes up a larger share of the market going forward, whereas in the past it has been like 60% Unity positions and 40% Unreal positions (due to Unity use on smaller projects, indie games, and use in the VR training industry).
Waiting for the ability to target mobile in c# and for embedding to work… should see that in the next year I think with the renewed focus on it… we don’t use many unity features but those two are kinda showstoppers right now.
2D projects also used Unity at a very high rate. Unreal has never really been considered suitable for 2D work. I’m not sure if Godot is.
For general 2d development, Godot is much better than unity already. It doesn’t have everything that unity does but what it has is much more efficient and easy to understand.
Though the opposite is true for 3d.
In short: Unity is a 3d tool where you can pretend one of the dimensions doesn’t exist to make 2d games (but it’s still running a 3d environment behind the curtains, you’re just not seeing one of them), while godot is a 2d tool that gives you an optional third dimension for some stuff.
Wrong.
Godot has fully independent 2D and 3D engines. Each one has it’s own backend, that is specialized for that purpose.
Yes, but the general feel with the 3d stuff in Godot is that it’s just an added dimension on top of things that were thought for 2d. In unity everything feels like it was thought for 3d. It’s a bit hard to explain.
Godot has been used mainly for 2D as it didn’t support 3D until fairly recently.
Godot actually has supported 3D since at least 2.1 when I started using it in 2016.
But really sucked for a long time. It’s pretty good now.
one of the best things out of all this is how many new people are now making youtube tutorials on Godot. The huge amount of new monthly donations to the Godot Foundation is also great
Should I start learning Godot? I’m not a game dev, but I know C/Cpp and game dev has been interesting to me.
There is C# support in Godot. I’m not sure how many tutorials have been made with it in particular, but I think there’s plenty. Plus their docs go over the API differences so shouldn’t be hard to use in any case
If you know C++ already, Unreal is a much more natural starting point than either Unity or Godot.
Unreal is what gets used in many AAA shops - it’s not a monopoly by any means but it is the most common off-the-shelf engine in the industry. Unity’s main edge is that it’s easy to learn but if you are comfortable in C++ then there’s no real benefit to Unity.
Godot uses GDScript, which is a custom scripting language that’s meant to be easy to learn. It’s FOSS so you don’t need to worry about being screwed over - but it’s a lot less mature than something like Unreal which can ship on everything you can think of.
But my advice is to make small things. Don’t hyperfocus on a dream game. Just make things that will take a weekend (maybe a week at most). Then move on to something else.
When I was getting into game dev, I made a couple simple projects then jumped into my dream game. I spent so long making that one game that I never finished.
When I got hired in the industry, they cared more about what I released than what my education or job experience was. Because that one big game was never finished, I wound up with my smaller “just getting started” games on my resume; stuff I had made but wasn’t proud of. But those games were at least finished and available to the public… and they were what got me hired, not my magnum opus overscoped unfinished indie game I never completed.
Thanks! My C/Cpp knowledge is from embedded programming, arduino and now moving to just Cpp coding. I keep hearing people say python is easier or such thing is simpler but I just can’t see c/Cpp as unapproachable. Plus at least with embedded python gets translated to c for the core to run. Right now I’m playing with LVGL for embedded screen interfaces. It’s fun. I’ll dig into unreal when I get a moment of boredom/hyperfocus.
If you want to use C/C++ you may be more interested in O3DE, although it’s a AAA specialized game engine that’s not very user friendly. If you’re new to game dev in general, then Godot is definitely the easiest to get started with, but you should use GDScript and not C/C++.
EDIT: or just make your own little game engine with OpenGL or Vulkan, That’s probably the most effective way to learn nearly everything…
Nobody can tell you in advance how far your interest in game dev will take you. Only one way to find out: start small (some tutorials, build some crappy first) and see if your interest sticks around as you up the challange.
Maybe game dev in Godot will end up being a significant chapter in your life, maybe it will just be a small sidequest. But once you’ve given it an honest try, no matter the outcome, you at least will know if it’s something for you or not. That in itself is already worth something.
And who knows: maybe Godot is just your entry gateway to something else you discover along the way, which you wouldn’t have discovered if you hadn’t taken on the challange in the first place.
I side quested JS/React and went back to embedded. But the side quest definitely allowed me to understand more things and the variations in coding languages.
If I was a developer, I wouldn’t give them a second chance at this point.
Yeah I can’t imagine why I would start a project with Unity at this point. That’s just asking to get screwed over later with no warning.
It appears that Unity shot itself in both feet and also its face. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen such a spectacular betrayal of trust by a business where confidence in your product is paramount. Even with extreme backpedling, it’s in the can.
Wizard of the Coast license fiasco is about the same. Except of course that “confidence in your product” is a bit of a misnomer. It’s not a confidence in the D&D, but the license. A lot of people were trusting the OGL, and the changes would have fucked over half of the industry with their “retroactive” changes.
I was maybe 10 hours of work into a small side project and I just said fuck it and started over in Godot. No reason to use Unity unless you are a studio that’s deep into development or supporting a game that’s already out.
The takeaway is to never hire people from EA into decision making roles.
