• @[email protected]
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    192 years ago

    Linux users are like Vegans. No one likes them and they won’t stop bratting about being a Linux user.

    • Dizzy Devil Ducky
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      102 years ago

      I’m slowly going down the open source rabbit hole, but I have yet to fully go down the part where you preach about it like it’s a God. I hope I never get that far, as I also use Linux from time to time as well. I ain’t looking to be one of those annoying users who constantly brings it up if I can help it.

      • Polar
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        52 years ago

        Talking about Linux is fine. Coming into any tech/tech support post, screaming that Linux is the answer, even if the person explains why they need Windows/Mac, is not.

        It’s like the Christians that comment on a dying persons tiktok about how God knows best, and God will heal them lmao. Literally not helpful and extremely ignorant and rude.

        • @[email protected]OP
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          The thing is that Unix will solve every problem, the only question is when. Year of the Linux desktop 2070?

          I’m legitimately unsure if it’s appropriate to be running mission-critical systems on the Microsoft Windows platform nowadays, but transitioning will obviously take some time.

  • @[email protected]
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    1192 years ago

    I’m really triggered by the idea that Linux makes running old software easy. The bane of my existence is finding an application that depends on libButts.5.1, but my distro ships with libButts.5.3, which isn’t backward compatible for some reason, and trying to install libButts.5.1 bricks the desktop environment for some reason.

    • @[email protected]
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      382 years ago

      I just searched for that lib, in an attempt to help you with the supposed problem. I won’t deny, you got me there.

    • Kayn
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      242 years ago

      No time for actual facts, only circlejerking /s

    • @[email protected]
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      122 years ago

      what you do is: you make a chroot environment that has libButts.5.1 , so it isn’t really part of your system. you run your old app inside of it, so you can do your buttstuff in a safe environment

    • Nefyedardu
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      212 years ago

      Appimage, Snap, Flatpak, Docker, Podman, Distrobox, Toolbox…

        • Nefyedardu
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          2 years ago

          I mean not really, Appimage has been around since 2004, flatpak/docker for about a decade now. But at any rate I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?

          • @[email protected]
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            22 years ago

            I don’t see your point, the person I replied to said it’s hard to run old applications on Linux and I gave him solutions on how to do that. What does their age have to do with anything?

            it’s hard to run old applications on Linux

            What does their age have to do with anything

            I’m not sure if you’re taking the piss but since those solutions are so recent, you won’t find old applications packaged with those solutions.

            • Nefyedardu
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              They don’t need to be packaged at the time of creation anyway, they can be packaged right now. Distrobox makes this easy, like let’s say you need an application that only works on Ubuntu 18.04. It’s two commands:

              distrobox create --image ubuntu:18.04 ubuntu

              distrobox enter ubuntu -- sudo apt-get install _package_

              Then to export the package to your desktop you can even do

              distrobox enter ubuntu -- distrobox export --app _application_

              Boom, you have an Ubuntu 18.04 application on an OS of your choosing. You can theoretically do this with any distro, distrobox can use any OCI images from docker-hub, quay.io, or any registry of your choice.

      • @[email protected]
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        102 years ago

        All potentially fantastic ideas had the original author bothered to package in any of those formats. Much more common is the only release is a .deb built for an ancient version of Ubuntu, leading to my above frustrstions.

        • @[email protected]
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          2 years ago
          1. Stop bothering with dead software.
          2. You can repackage old FOSS source code into any of those containers and install and use it that way. Nothing is stopping you, the tools are free and widely documented. You don’t need to own the FOSS repository to repackage it, and actually a huge chunk of containers are packaged by people not affiliated with the development project of the software.
          • @[email protected]OP
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            12 years ago

            I think we will become better served over time by using systems like the AUR or nix as it seems quite straightforward to make new software available with them. Both of those systems define the method a package should be built with, so even if the maintainer is long gone and the package hasn’t been updated in a long time it will probably still be possible to build, or any changes needed to build it can be easily shared to save other people troubleshooting effort.

            The drawbacks are: nix doesn’t seem to have an elegant way to define that users or groups should be created (e.g. at least one package providing locate requires that) (though it does have at least one non-elegant way and one manual but less non-elegant way), and a package usable with pacman has lacked a definition of what version of every dependency it requires in at least one case where it would have been useful to me (even though that is possible apparently), so if anything made a backwards-incompatible change you may not be able to use the package manager alone to troubleshoot.

        • @[email protected]
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          12 years ago

          I’ve had poor luck with AppImage. Because of how it works, it has failed in the exact thing it was supposed to do, just werk everywhere. But I’ve heard it generally works well.

    • @[email protected]
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      Anyone who’s feeling Linux savvy, try getting EAX working with some X-Fi hardware. Best of luck ;)

    • torpak
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      42 years ago

      can you not recompile the app to use the new lib?

      • @[email protected]
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        82 years ago

        that’s when you find out that the updated build environment is incompatible with the older libraries the project expected.

        usually the only escape is docker, or containerization to be correct, just give the old app and old environment.

        this wastes a lot of space though

      • icedterminal
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        Potentially but it’s not always that simple. I’ve literally encountered this exact scenario. OldeShit needs libY 1.9 but pacman is on 2.2. Can’t downgrade because libY uses 10 different libs collectively in the depends tree that explicitly need 2.0 or higher. So you take a look at libY and OldeShit builds only to realise several functions that libY provide have been reworked or removed, making it incompatible with OldeShit. As such OldeShit doesn’t build.

        As an aside, this is quite literally why Microsoft has several different VC Redistributables. To avoid this issue. But this also creates another issue. Lol.

      • @[email protected]
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        102 years ago

        Someone probably could. But not me. I am not a software developer, and being one should not be a prerequisite to using an OS, despite what the memes in this very group might lead one to believe.

    • Queue
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      42 years ago

      So many people here are butthurt because of a small meme that pokes fun at what 90% of end users experience.

      Its not Linux’s fault they can’t take a joke about windows. And yet somehow we are the elitist snowflake gatekeepers, or whatever buzzword they wanna use today.

  • phillaholic
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    62 years ago

    Just installed Ubuntu today for the first time in at least a decade. Touchpad two-finger scrolling is so sensitive. There’s no setting for it. I have to replace the driver with the synapse one, if my laptop supports it.

  • Xylight (Photon dev)
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    162 years ago

    Re-creation of someone else’s post because the original was removed and I found it funny when I first saw it

    If the original was removed, there’s probably a reason.

    This “meme” chooses the dumbest reasons Linux is better when there are so many other options than “updates” and “old app”

    • @[email protected]OP
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      The reason the original was removed can be found at https://www.kevinswildlife.com/modlog/1016 by searching for the user “Kaped”. Apparently it was because that user broke the rules regarding “No bigotry” and “Be respectful” on https://lemmy.ml/ and a mod wanted to “remove content”.

      I doubt those reasons were actually related to the post this one copies, as it doesn’t seem bigoted, and probably isn’t much less respectful than other [email protected] content.

      Also, memes can still be memes while being dumb. Unsophisticated stuff can also be funny! Perhaps fart jokes and other body humor are examples of this.

    • Kayn
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      82 years ago

      It’s yet another “Linux good, other OS bad” meme, which is by far my least favorite kind of Linux meme

  • Romanmir
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    162 years ago

    It’s always entertaining when people complain about not being able to stop Windows updates.

    Like, has it occurred to you that you are the reason the MS had to prevent you from being able to update your system?!

    • OpenStars
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      42 years ago

      If only all updates were fully backwards compatible it would not be an issue.

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        If updates were fully backwards compatible, they wouldn’t be upgrades, they would be addons.

        Windows has been notoriously backwards compatible, because it is extensively used in any business and tons of those have old machines that need to work 20 years before they pay themselves back, and thus need compatible OSes to run it.

        Lately, Microsoft is finally trimming the fat that has been dragging along for decades, while still maintaining the compatibility by making it optional.

        • OpenStars
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          12 years ago

          Right but my point is that since some updates have broken their machines in the past, people have (somewhat justifiably) hesitated to update so readily. Imagine a surgeon prepping for the most complex surgery of their life early the next morning and is using the machine to prep… oops, the machine updated, the prep software no longer functions, now they stay up all night trying to fix their machine that wasn’t even broken to begin with, and the patient is at more risk than otherwise even if that works was successful. Ok so that’s hyperbolic but it relates (with less dire consequences) to so many far more common scenarios, like a teacher and their students all getting ready to go through finals week, but that very month sometime the machine decides it will not wait even a handful of hours until those busy people have a moment to update more risk free (maybe they are even responsible enough to not do their banking and such on it, so that access to their electronic notes is more important to them than some hypothetical risk of leaving a known vulnerability?).

          Maybe I am missing something, like if forced updates only occur after years of choosing to delay the update (I left Windows behind years ago, except when forced to at work), but in general my own preference is that the machine should serve me, perhaps presenting me with a strongly worded warning if I do not comply, but the ultimate authority should be me, to decide my own timeframe.

          And in case it’s not obvious, I am talking about personally maintained machines, not IT staff rolling out an update that they have properly vetted - that really is different, since while the check is external it still does exist, plus such a user does not really “own” that machine to begin with hence literally (read the contracts even) has no “rights” to complain, at least to Microsoft since that would be IT staff that made that choice, right or wrong.

      • @[email protected]
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        42 years ago

        What do you mean? I don’t think any other operating system even comes close to Windows in regards to backwards compatibility. Most software designed for Windows 98 will still run fine on Windows 11.

        There are thousands lines of code in the NT kernel with patches for specific programs. There is even a line patching an incompatibility with Lego Island, lol.

  • halva
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    52 years ago

    linux is barely better than macos in terms of backwards compatibility, literally the only stable api is the syscall one

  • @[email protected]
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    62 years ago

    I get stuff like this in my feed and it reminds me about how years ago I was quietly feeling more and more curious, but didnt have a way to express these feelings. Eventually I found a lonely Sony unit, and I spread it’s storage unit apart and began experimenting with Ubuntu. At first it was exciting, what with the feeling of something new, but it didnt take long for me to find that it didnt satisfy me and our relationship staled pretty soon after. We couldnt communicate; the instructions became complicated and confusing, and I soon had to part ways

  • masterofn001
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    I don’t have a printer.

    I don’t like open ports.

    Decides to remove CUPS.

    “apt list -i *cups*”

    There are like 7 CUPS packages and dependencies.

    for each package “apt remove cups --simulate”

    Get to package 6 and decide ‘Ok. No major issues, looks fine.’

    For the first 6 packages “sudo apt remove CUPS

    This is easy and painless!

    On 7th …

    Removing cups-pk or some shit… Removing mint-common… Removing cinnamon-desktop…

    Oh, fuck

    • GreenBottles
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      22 years ago

      I did something very similar while I was drunkenly troubleshooting issues on an old laptop and I gave up as soon as I saw the desktop going I just closed the lid and reformatted the next day

      • masterofn001
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        When I was new to Linux I broke EVERYTHING.

        Often.

        The more you break, the more you learn.

        Nobody tells me I can’t modify this file.

        Eg. I once accidentally chmodded the entire root directory. (Recursion incident)

        Linux does not like when the root fs permissions are ALL changed.

        I had no internet at the time. And no idea what timeshift was.

        Thankfully, I had a library card.

        Learned a lot about permissions that month.

        (I enjoy doing things the hard way)

        • Chewy
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          22 years ago

          Did you manage to get your system working again? Iirc I did the same on Arch a few years ago and it wasn’t too bad to restore the system after looking at the permissions on a fresh install (maybe a container or vm, idr).

          • masterofn001
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            I tried. It was so long ago now I can’t even remember. It was xubuntu, though.

            But, I’m pretty sure I had to take it down to the local shop and get a copy of the iso since I didn’t have a fresh install to compare. (This wasn’t the only time I absolutely borked my machine)

            Nowadays, I backup everything. I image the partitions. I create a separate partition for home. And I know what to never touch.

            • Chewy
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              22 years ago

              Agreed, backups are important. Before switching to NixOS (or image based OS like Fedora Silverblue) I made use of automatic btrfs snapshots. This makes these kinds of screw-ups simple to revert.

              I’d like to say an overly optimistic chmod -R didn’t happen again but my old Nextcloud instance would like a word.

              Thanks for reminding to do my backups again. I’ve recently build a server with enough storage so I’ll probably setup restic or borg. That means I can bring my external backup HDD over to my family as an offline/offsite backup.

    • @[email protected]
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      22 years ago

      For some reason the entire global economy depends on imagemagik working. Only Linus and the Illuminati know why.

    • @[email protected]
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      52 years ago

      I was having trouble getting a DVD ripped, so I thought “Fuck it. I’m going to try dd”. I used .iso for the file extension, and it worked.

      • ferret
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        22 years ago

        I mean that is more a product of how .iso files are just the whole disk as a binary with a file extension

  • Nobsi
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    262 years ago

    “I can’t build a steady userbase”

    • 257m
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      252 years ago

      There is a difference between steady and small.

        • @[email protected]
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          Something can cost $0 and still participate in the market. The cost to use something can even be negative $ (e.g. Bing paying you to use it).

          • Polar
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            12 years ago

            Shhh. The Linux users brain is too filled with Terminal commands. They can’t be learning new stuff like that!

    • @[email protected]
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      142 years ago

      I am a Windows guy, but I occasionally have to work with Linux. I spend a lot of time googling weird problems with cryptic solutions. That’s my experience trying to do anything technical with Linux. I can’t really remember the last time I had a problem in windows, but that’s not to say windows is perfect. It’s taken a hit in usability recently, which is weird since they’ve had decades to refine things. I recently installed pop os as a dual boot and it’s been pretty great with the ability to play games. I haven’t really had to do anything technical and I find myself using it more than I thought.

      • torpak
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        82 years ago

        At least most problems under Linux have solutions and if you are really desperate you have the option to fix it yourself in the source or pay someone to do it. Under windows, if microsoft doesn’t care about your problem, you either find a workaround or live with it.

        • @[email protected]
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          Because of the ginormous community, every problem has a solution in Windows.

          If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.

          Windows has a hell of a lot more support than any Linux distribution does.

          • Nefyedardu
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            52 years ago

            If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.

            That’s not how this works. If it’s not a Microsoft-sancioned solution, it literally cannot be fixed no matter how much effort you put in. You need an API to work with Windows. If Microsoft does not provide you with an API, you can’t do it. And even if you find a way to hack together something, you have zero guarantee an update won’t just come along and fuck it. Linux distros are open source, you can change quite literally any thing about them. That is what that person was talking about.

            • halva
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              12 years ago

              the thing is, microsoft does provide stable, well-documented and backwards-compatible apis for just about anything imaginable, and even if that’s not enough, you can try interacting with the kernel directly

    • @[email protected]OP
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      82 years ago

      I can’t say I share this experience as I spend a lot more than half my time using Linux watching documentaries on youtube in a web browser. If you are obsessed with personalization I could see this happening, but I happen to prefer using default (as in “possible to consistently re-apply”) settings on most things.

      Regardless, troubleshooting makes you better at resolving trouble that you didn’t bring about on your own, and life is defined by unexpected troubles. It is better to be antifragile than happy!

      • @[email protected]
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        42 years ago

        The key to customization is not going out of bounds. If you customize, do it the way it was intended to be customized, not by finding weird, hacky shit that works like some kind of digital Rube Goldberg machine. If you find yourself writing convoluted bash scripts, and dredging up plugins on GitHub with the last commit from 2012, you’re on a crash course with destiny.

        • @[email protected]OP
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          12 years ago

          I was primarily noting that I usually don’t engage in unnecessary and unproductive customization, as there will always be some way you could meet your desires a little better, but unless you’re creating and documenting an automated system like https://larbs.xyz/ or even just “copy this file to ~/.profile” your customizations will eventually be lost when your system fails, leaving you with new reason to spend more time customizing.

          As the video I linked said: if computers are as powerful as the universe and the universe was created in billions of years, you may only be done customizing billions of years from now (and at that point you will have had even more billions of years to come up with new ways you want to improve your customization).

          If I’m spending time on something that won’t result in an update to a git repository, or a Lemmy comment, or even speaking to someone in person or me acquiring more property, I consider it more frivolous than not.

        • @[email protected]
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          32 years ago

          Hey, how’d you see what I’ve done to my Android phone?

          Cause this exactly describes what I do to it. Then I get weird conflicts. Lol. I do it to myself.

      • @[email protected]
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        142 years ago

        I guess you’re lucky (or much more tech-savvy than me). I tried to switch to linux once many years ago (pre-COVID, which is like ancient times now). It was horrible. Oh, I now need to learn about file systems and NTFS and ext3/4(?) - i guess i’ll try Linux on a separate, old hard drive. Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download. Great, people on forums are helpful but they’re asking me a bunch of gibberish. Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line, but then the GUI doesn’t work occasionally and now I have to figure out if it’s the GUI that broke or something else. And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.

        • @[email protected]OP
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          22 years ago

          If I was in your situation, I would try installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux on a computer where you don’t care if the entire disk gets wiped occasionally, using a flash drive you also don’t care about getting wiped occasionally. They probably have sufficiently comprehensive installers and installation instructions for you to succeed in using one of them, and if you don’t care about the content of the disks you use you’ll be more willing to experiment with the installation process (even though it’s unlikely your computer will work worse due to trying to install a Linux distribution). If you use a computer that has become slower and less usable than you’d like you will probably be pleasantly surprised by the results!

          Also, you can back up your product keys and prepare a Microsoft Windows installation disk if being able to go back to Windows 10 makes you more comfortable with experimenting.

          Overall, Linux enhanced my ability to to get productive work done, and also the opportunity to experiment and learn more about how to use computers to solve problems. I think learning how to use a GNU operating system is a good long term investment, though if you still need to keep around at least one computer that runs Microsoft Windows to protect your income I won’t disparage you.

        • Nefyedardu
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          Trying to use proprietary drivers and NTFS on Linux is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. People work hard to make it work and maybe it does with a little effort but the proprietary model and Linux distros just don’t mesh well together. If you make it a point to purchase hardware that has open source drivers and use open source software (and as a consumer, you probably should anyway), everything does just work. Obviously this may not suit your use case and Linux may just not be for you.

          • Captain Aggravated
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            62 years ago

            NTFS is okay if you’re mounting a drive that you share with a Windows machine but don’t actually install Linux to an NTFS partition please. Most of the “beginner friendly” distros I don’t think even let you.

            • @[email protected]
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              12 years ago

              There’s no way that would work, would it? I can’t imagine installing linux to an NTFS volume and it actually functioning.

        • Ooops
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          Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download.

          Unlike in Windows where you never need to download drivers. As executable binaries you have no chance of checking. Sometimes from very questionable sources. And actually you can be happy if it’s only a driver. Installing random 3rd party tools just to get basic functionality is a thing.

          people on forums are helpful

          Which also happens for Windows. But rarely. And if they really try… then there are still 10 different answers to a single problem and you have to test which one works for your specific version (no, chosing the most recent one sounds logical but is rarely the answer).

          Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line

          Which in what way is worse then editing random obscure values in the registry? Because it’s a window you type in. And in the worst case even the Windows help starts with poweshell nowadays, which is exactly the same.

          And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.

          That’s a solveable problem. Unlike in Windows where they put file permissions on top a file system not having them in a weird unintutive way. And don’t ever try to change the wrong permission as an administrator as that’s simply not allowed. After all you don’t own your Windows PC, MS just gratiously allows you to use it.

          So, you see… it’s all a matter of perspective.

          • @[email protected]
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            92 years ago

            10 different answers

            No there’s only ever one answer and it’s “have you tried ‘sfc /scannow’?” But it never works, even if it finds an alleged problem.

    • @[email protected]
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      32 years ago

      I’ve had hard time troubleshooting on Windows because everything is obfuscated behind so many layers. And there’s just things you can’t feasibly do. But it does seem to work well most of the time.

      • @[email protected]
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        142 years ago

        That’s categorically untrue. As long as you stick with well supported, mainstream distributions, most things just work. Given the vast diversity of window managers, init systems, boot loaders, desktop environments, package managers, graphical interface systems, audio systems, and so on… it’s surprising how well things do just generally work in most cases.

      • southsamurai
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        102 years ago

        Gee, I must have imagined writing a novel on a laptop running Linux, with nothing giving any trouble at all.

        I guess my imagination is even better than I thought!

        Sadly, that means that the second novel I’m halfway through must be imaginary too. A shame to have imagined that much imagining.

        Seriously, that’s just this laptop, it doesn’t count the ones on desktop before that, also on Linux.

      • @[email protected]
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        And here we have a Windows power user that gave Linux a half-hearted attempt sometime in the last decade, never attempted to learn anything, and failed… so obviously Linux is broken. It surely isn’t his own ineptitude, it’s definitely Linux, it doesn’t matter that 90% of all web and cloud infrastructure runs on. It doesn’t matter tech illiterate people like my 80+ year old grandparents get by without any problems on it. It doesn’t matter it blows Windows out of the water in terms of customization, workflows, reliability, control, and privacy for advanced users. He tried it, couldn’t figure it out whatever Windows thing he was trying in the 2 hours he used it, so it obviously is broken.

        I find it hilarious when Windows power users try Linux, realize that they are not actually the computer experts they see themselves as but merely Windows power users. They get salty about it and blame Linux for not being confined to their own limited idea on how an OS should work… you know, like Windows. Then make a bunch of bullshit assumptions and statements that are completely wrong to make themselves feel better about failing to understand an amazing OS.

        • @[email protected]
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          72 years ago

          Similarly, about 90% of the complaints I see linux users make about Windows are actually limitations in their understanding or are just outdated and no longer apply.

          • @[email protected]
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            I know more about Windows than I do about Linux… I used it for decades. Windows lacks customization, it has dogshit workflows. And it sends telemetry data. Windows is a joke, I know it’s limitations because I do have an in depth knowledge of its workings.

          • @[email protected]
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            I truly believe Linux is great for basic users, and also Linux is great for advanced users. The only people that have problems with it are insecure Windows power users that want to think they understand how a computer works, but really have no idea.

              • @[email protected]
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                2 years ago

                Lmao, imagine being that desperate for validation. I know you’re a LTT bro that’s offended by my assessment, the only advice I have to offer… don’t be so insecure and fragile, learn from it.

    • torpak
      link
      fedilink
      52 years ago

      I have to use windows at work. I have to spend a lot more time trouble shooting there than on my bleeding edge rolling release linux at home.