Just in case someone isn’t aware of it yet:

Kewbit scammed the Monero Community so stay away from his stuff (haveno.com etc)!

If you’re interested in the REAL haveno mobile version you should look at this here: https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app

Thanks and sure, no Problem :)

I don’t think it’s so bad tbh. If you look at BTC/BCH they have 10min block time so if you wait for at least 1 confirmation you have around 3 XMR confirmations on average. But for bigger sums you most likely want at least to wait for a second or third which brings you close to or close above 20min. (For really small sums you can just accept 0-conf. Monero does NOT have RBF (replace by fee), so the other person can NOT betray you.) And that is only IF you get into the next block (which is a problem for BTC).

In reality, if you start using Monero, vast majority has more than a single output, so you can buy a few things in quick succession. Also you can just use Cake as a receiving wallet and then Monerujo as your spending wallet, which has the feature named Pocket Change (that makes sure you always have a bigger amount of outputs available). That’s why I’d argue that the 10 block lock isn’t really a big hindrance in reality.

The ‘KYC’ informations you need to provide are just necessary informations for the trade (like an address for cash by mail or your bank account for SEPA). Also those informations are stored locally and only revealed to your trading peer when needed. So no complaints there from me.

And unlicensed? What license do you expect? We’re free humans that just exchange wealth in a voluntary trade. No license needed.

The process is not really complex, but you need to do it once to really grasp the concept. But it’s pretty much self explanatory. Depending on your region Zelle/CashApp can be used, yes.

I agree. With the mobile app around the corner it’s going to be even better. Haveno is basically Normie-ready xD

Even though it’s more like Twitter I see pretty good discussions on Nostr. So maybe take a look at that? https://following.space/d/ygm6vtdp3arx?p=af740d198babb8c7b82d0a4718eb354bb3f6af9a98639b85d4a5cf1371caba85

https://retoswap.com/

Okay, your comment shows that Monero truely is the one continuing the real cypherpunk legacy. Getting delisted is just a sign that it is dangerous for the elites. The delistings brought us Haveno, a Bisq equivalent. We’re already seeing Haveno havening more volume than Bisq and it’s not even a year old. So the need for centralized exchanges isn’t needed for Monero anymore.

But okay, let’s play with your idea.

Monero’s weakest part of privacy gets fixed probably around end of the year (as we then move from ring signatures to full chain membership proofs). Then Monero has pretty much perfect privacy when it comes to cryptography.

Let’s say BCH can achieve that same level of privacy in a few years. You don’t really specify a time horizon so let’s say 2-3 years? Basically 2 years after Monero’s upgrade?

When the upgrade for BCH hits, the need for BCH users to swap to XMR most likely won’t be there anymore. But it depends on the actual implementation. To get that privacy you probably need to make at least one normal TX. Which should have a fraction of a penny as fee? In 2-3 years we also most likely have Serai, a decentralized instant swap service where you can also swap BCH into XMR with the fee equivalent of one to two TXs. Atomic swaps also take two TXs worth of TX fees I believe but these take longer for the swap to finish.

So for BCH users you can either choose to use a privacy token minted on BCH or swap into the most private coin XMR. Either one will most likely cost you only a fraction of a penny.

For XMR users it won’t really make sense to switch to BCH except for when the vendor doesn’t accept XMR but instead would accept BCH. Which I don’t see anywhere currently. I mostly see Monero overtaking BTC onchain and LN at pretty much any service that accepts both or all three (see the usage volume numbers of ShopinBit, Coincards, OrangeFren, MyNymBox, silentlink and Proxystore)

https://xcancel.com/shopinbit/status/1912191172740821189 https://xcancel.com/CoinCards/status/1907477293489909882 https://xcancel.com/OrangeFren/status/1913165293615976514 https://xcancel.com/mynymbox/status/1914712805971738701 https://xcancel.com/silentlink1/status/1836839383833391206 https://njump.me/nevent1qqszzpsusyqysljs8dldqhfsnzzshp5x56jvmgzu9ptlantpl8qn6rgprdmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuur0wf6x2mt0dejhymewvdhk6q3qtn0q609j0nzeh0zpxtll5hrwwnr4ulny5kh4jtsat3hqarwvnerqxpqqqqqqz74matc

I don’t really know what kind of DeFi you’re alluding to but with Haveno and Serai we have two decentralized exchanges that can’t be stopped anymore. Also the FCMP++ (full chain membership proof) upgrade will enable more L2s and such for Monero.

When it comes to ASICs and network security: BTC has a ~262 times larger marketcap than BCH and a ~233 times bigger Hashrate. So congrats, you guys are technically slightly more secure than BTC in relation to ones marketcap. For Monero the numbers aren’t as easily calculated as it uses a different algorithm but the factors are the following: BTC has a ~375 times larger MC but only needs 206 times as many miners for their respective hashrate. That makes Monero even better secured than BCH in relation to it’s MC.

So when the time comes for BTC and/or BCH to switch their mining algorithm because quantum computers can break the sha256 hash function, all of the current mining equipment will be useless. That’s gonna be devastating for the miners of BTC/BCH. The miners of XMR only need a software upgrade though ;)

And last but not least you say BCH wouldn’t need a tail emission. When we look at the relation between the block reward, sum of TX fees and the total reward for miners we can clearly see, that BCH is even worse than BTC. BCH hovers at about 0.1% of the total miner reward coming from TX fees currently with a recent spike to 0.6%. BTC is more in the 1-2% range. Good thing for BCH though is you guys can just scale up the number of TX thanks to dynamic block size. So if BCH wants to keep it’s security budget you guys need a 200-1000x in TX volume or price without increasing the MC or Hashrate. I don’t think an increase in usage comes without an increase in price. So you guys have to live with a drastic increase in TX fees.

In contrast Monero can just increase it’s user numbers without needing to increase TX fees, as the block reward pays the miners.

https://bitinfocharts.com/de/comparison/fee_to_reward-btc-bch-xmr.html

At the same MC Monero is going to give you much cheaper TX while having a higher security level (hashrate per $ of MC) than BTC and/or BCH.

Monero’s dynamic block size did not fail! There was a slight error in the wallet implementations. The wallets were always choosing the lowest possible fee, even as the mempool filled up. After the fix they now start to choose a slightly higher TX fee when the mempool gets filled, which let’s the blocks expand much quicker.

What’s the argument here? BCH is going to have a feature to enable minting a token on BCH with privacy comparable to Monero in a few years?

Why should anyone switch to this token instead of using Monero? Wouldn’t it take like an onchain TX to switch BCH into this token? Why would I do that if I can already swap into XMR for a negligible fee today?

And even if it had an equivalent level of privacy, BCH still has no tail emission and no ASIC resistance.

Also today Monero rivals Bitcoins usage and not BCH.

So yeah, bold claim, but not much more it seems.

For me the link works, but the site looks a bit broken on mobile 🤔

Are you aware of p2pool (decentralized pool with 0% tax)? Also there is gupax.io for easy mining setup with p2pool. Oh and then there is gupaxx (notice the two x on the end). Might want to look into this :)

This 💯

Thank you for your contribution! I’ll check it out :D

Nice writeup, thanks!

Hopefully not. I don’t want the market manipulation of those people. We have Haveno, which is working fine and with more feedback will become better over time. Serai is around the corner aswell. Then there is basicswapdex which also keeps improving.

So we’re good I think. No short-term moon pumping needed.

No, thank you. The only communication with exchanges should be ‘please delist us, we have haveno now (and serai soon)’.

Besides that, every single one of us is capable of telling people about the use-case and advantages of monero (and potentially help others to start using it).

So yeah, I like my monero without an official head, that would be chopped off anyway.

What are you trying to say/convey?

I only used retoswap.

The trade was legit so no complains there. You can see the stats of this instance on haveno.markets.

Telemetry has no place in this. Without full source code and reproducible builds this could be spyware or worse for all we know.