A Ukrainian Neo-Nazi soldier visited the Auschwitz death camp wearing a shirt quoting Hitler in order to mock the camp’s victims. This is the type of truly fascist scum that billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars are going to fund and arm.

  • @[email protected]
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    111 months ago

    No. In fact I don’t have any respect nor any sympathy for them. That said, today I rather have then dying to push back the invasion than Ukrainian civilians forced to join the army.

    In either case, it’s not like weapons are given to them to let them do what they would do if they were completely free (thankfully), so OP argument seems invalid to me. It’s a disgrace that the West is not only not defending Palestine, but aiding Israel, but this doesn’t make it automatically wrong to arm Ukrainians. It’s not like they are not sending weapons to Gaza because they finished to send them to Ukraine.

    • huf [he/him]
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      11 months ago

      incidentally, since you know so much about this, if the nazis are such a small irrelevant minority in ukraine’s govt (and they’re definitely not in power), why is it so hard to get pictures of ukrainian soldiers without nazi tattoos and nazi patches?

      oh, and why is the government full of people like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Melnyk_(diplomat)

        • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
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          2011 months ago

          but Nazi parties are still a super tiny minority (like Right Sector) and so are the Nazi battalions who got incorporated into the army

          lol, peak liberal brain. These heavily-armed Nazi groups are incorporated into the army and people don’t vooooooooooot for them, surely they have no power.

            • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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              1311 months ago

              If someone claims that Nazism is basically mainstream culture, then it only makes sense to see that reflected into elected parties

              You do realize the parties “elected” are the one pushing Banderism and approving the incorporation of neo-nazi militias into high ranking positions in the police abd military, the fuckin Azov militias are literally a special forces bridgade now, you think that happens without goverment sanction? A party doesn’t have to call itself the New Nazi Jew Killer party to be a nazi party, Zelensky’s party is a nazi party

            • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
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              1411 months ago

              They basically already did in 2014 with US backing, see that one video where an Ukronazi is gloating about how even though all the Western media talked about was how Nazis were a minority in Euromaidan, without them it would’ve been ”like a gay parade” (his words).

              Even if the Nazis are a relatively small portion of the population, they have lots of weapons and have been training (including indoctrinating children as reported by Western media) for years, it’s not exactly far fetched to say they can use the threat of violence get their way.

        • CascadeOfLight [he/him]
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          1611 months ago

          It’s hard to get pictures of Ukrainian army without Nazi symbols? What…?

          Perhaps they mean things like

          This

          or this

          or this

          or this

          or this

          or maybe this

        • huf [he/him]
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          2211 months ago

          i like your coy avoidance. dude’s an open banderite. that’s a nazi. that’s what i mean when i say people like him.

          so anyway, why did zelensky’s totally not a nazi government pick a blatant nazi to be one of their ambassadors? why was he not fired and buried in a pit when he displayed his naziness to the whole world? why was he just recalled and sent to another country to continue to be a nazi ambassador?

          this doesnt sound like a country that’s on top of it’s supposedly tiny nazi minority. a country that lets them shell the donbass for years, seemingly unable or unwilling to stop them. a country that seems to always picks nazis (tattoos, patches) for its army PR pictures.

          oh, and there’s this also to prove how tiny the nazi minority is in ukraine: 31% of them approve of bandera. 76% percent of those who live in western Ukraine have a positive opinion towards Bandera (https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7138).

          • @[email protected]
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            111 months ago

            Firsr, I skimmed the wikipedia article you linked and I couldn’t find anything in particular you were referring to, so it’s not avoidance, I am genuinely asking questions. Second, as you know, Banderism is a phenomenon which is much more complicated than just saying “Nazi”. It is linked with nationalism ans movements to get independent from what (from their perspective) was an occupier. It’s not so clear-cut as you are suggesting, where if you celebrate Bandera you are automatically a Nazi who supports Jew extermination and poles massacres.

            Now, I don’t know if this guy is an actual Nazi or " just" a nationalist, or something else, or what his story is and why he is in the government, but being a Banderist doesn’t automatically translate to being a Nazi in the sense we give it in the west (oppression of minorities, antisemitism etc.).

            So I guess I would challenge the foundation of your argument about the relationship between Bandera support and Nazism support. The more nationalists in Ukraine for sure see Bandera as a sort of “hero”, but mostly due to the impact on Ukraine liberation, not due to the (brief) alliance with Nazis (which was also opportunistic). I am sure you will disagree here, but history is complicated, and trust me, I have to overcome some of my own bias as an Italian, which means I have obviously a completely different perspective of WWII history. I simply can’t splash my own Western morality (based on our own shared history) on top of people and cultures that lived through a completely different history. So what you are saying to me sounds a complete simplification that disregards history and background for the population you are talking about.

            a country that lets them shell the donbass for years

            I definitely do not agree with Ukraine handling the Donbass question. That said, I hardly think that letting them shell donbass has to do with supporting Nazi views and not simply supporting the general goal of taking back control of occupied regions (we can discuss about Russian influence\russian sponsored coup\self determination of the people another time, here I am simply capturing the perspective of the Ukrainian government - right or wrong).