You attacking people’s gender identities is certainly not making life easier.
But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important.
“Important” and “mutable” are very different, non-mutually-exclusive concepts.
How your body works genetically and how you feel are two different things.
Correct. Which is literally why gender dysphoria and transgender identity exist. Studies have shown that the brains of transgender people more closely resemble that of their gender identity than their biosex. In case you missed it, the brain is the actual conscious part that experiences things and makes decisions in response to what it experiences, not the genitals. The brain can willingly choose to modify the body to fit its own ideals, such is its power. Why should people be prevented from doing that?
The conditions which led to your genetics may be a larger environmental issue and need to be accounted for.
Please elaborate because I have no idea what this means. What larger environmental issue is apart of genetics? The only environmental issue I can think of is which sperm fertilised the egg, which research has shown more or less boils down to random chance. There’s no external regulating force that’s balancing the ratio of males and females so I don’t see why environmental factors should prevent someone from changing their gender.
It isn’t like the data will be displayed to the world. The dude is just talking about science having data points.
It is a person seeing that the child was born XY, write that down, and… not even the name is needed. The point of data, a (+1), let’s science know there is now +1XY.
So the one percent of people who are trans are going to fuck up medical statistics? That’s your pathetic excuse for these comments? The most generous one can possibly be with you here is to say that’s a huge stretch. It’s certainly a weird thing to focus on.
You’re being rude. All the guy is saying is that it might affect data.
Does that make them a transphobe to say that male genetics has a higher chance for colon cancer and having it be tracked as a woman would dilute/fog up the data?
Science and data are objective. This guy just cares about numbers, not your sex and gender. Just the numbers of it.
Do you think that they don’t have your whole medical history? Like if they’re looking for a Y-chromosome associated cancer they’ll just pull up my surgical and prescription history and see “oh yeah that’s related” or they’ll order a karyotyping to ensure they’re correct because XY-AFAB people and XX-AMAB people aren’t *that^ rare of an intersex condition, especially as chimerism is downright common.
However what’s much more common is hormonally associated phenomena that aren’t extremely well known to be such. The most famous example is that after not very long on hormones trans people’s heart attack symptoms change to our hormonal sex’s. For a long time it was so rarely known amongst emergency room professionals that trans people were more likely to die of a heart attack.
But beyond this, that’s medical professionals and it’s a complicated discussion that’s currently happening in both the medical and trans communities by those who are affected most by it and those who are experts on these topics. What was clearly meant by this post was not that, but rather that people should feel 100% certain as to what is between the legs of every acquaintance and stranger they meet and that the government needs to know what each and every individual’s birth sex is.
So what you’re saying is you don’t think people should be able to fully choose what they identify as because it introduces uncertainty in data when you’d rather have two hard categories? Hate to break it to you, but that’s not how science nor statistics work, especially not biology or biostatistics. There are no hard lines anywhere in nature, give me any seemingly binary categorisation in a biological or ecological system and I guarantee there will be exceptions that don’t fit into either category, fit between them, fit both simultaneously, etc. The way science deals with this is to simply acknowledge this fact and embrace it. You will never hear a proper scientist lamenting that there are too many exceptions, because the exceptions are literally what they study and give far more insights into the world than if they had stuck to their hard categories.
What you’re basically saying is that science should dictate how the world works when that’s the antithesis of science. How the world works dictate science, it’s literally a tool for describing the world. Science does not tell you what to do, it tells you what it observes, full stop.
You and another commenter both mentioned the scenario of a person of a certain gender at birth identifying as transgender, getting diagnosed with some condition, and therefore being “miscategorized” as another gender with the condition. Okay, yes that would happen, but I wouldn’t call it miscategorization because the very concept of gender and biosex is not a hard line of one or the other. In fact, if the researchers of that hypothetical study cared about accuracy of the categorizations, they wouldn’t have had the participants choose between only two categories. For example, they could have had five: cis-male, cis-female, trans-male, trans-female, and other, but of course even those are simplifications of the continuous spectrum of gender. I don’t know of a single transgender person that would choose the cis option if also given the trans option on a medical study like this, I’m sure they exist, but so few that they would never be statically significant in a properly executed study and probably a lot fewer than the number of people who misclick and select a gender they didn’t mean to with realising. So you getting mad about trans people “fucking up” medical data is either a total strawman, or you actually meant to get mad about improper study designs that produce low quality data by not allowing people to accurately report information about themselves.
And if you try to argue that there are “only” two categories and the others are just “lost” or “confused” or something, then you’ll also have to answer for how nonbinary sex genes themselves should be dealt with. Not every person’s chromosomes are XX or XY, some have XXX, XYY, XXYY, etc, or even more complex would be if the X and Y chromosome undergoes meiosis a little differently than normal during sperm formation, resulting in, for example, an X chromosome that contains the male SRY gene or a Y chromosome that lacks that gene or an X or Y chromosome that lack and/or have added certain sex defining genes in general, sometimes causing the individual to have both sets of reproductive organs, or in even rarer circumstances, no reproductive organs at all. Some people are born with what appears as one biosex organ, only for it to change and/or another one to crop up during puberty as the sex organs develop, other have an underdeveloped version of the other set of sex organs completely inside their bodies which go unnoticed their whole lives. What biosex should those people be categorised into? You also mention HRT as if people undergoing HRT are the exact same biologically as they were before. For example, what if the hormones or other gender affirming procedures are what caused or predisposed the condition in question which they then report as being their gender identity and having that condition? In that case did they get accurately categorised in your eyes?
Finally, you know the last part of those science reports you had to write in school, the discussion section? That is another way science accounts for these exceptions by, you know, discussing them, instead of just pretending they don’t exist. For example, in this study the researchers would definitely comment on the existence of transgender identity and that the genders people report may not match their sex assigned at birth, because, once again, science is about describing the world with all its beautiful nuance and complexity, it does not and must not ignore those complexities.
As a metaphor for this scenario, what you are basically saying is that a rainbow has only seven colours and no more, when in reality a rainbow is a continuous spectrum of every visible wavelength and has an uncountably infinite number of colours. You can always find a wavelength that’s between the two you had previously found, just like how you can always find a nonbinary exception to the two most common genders. Or another metaphor, imagine if James Chadwick discovers the neutron and brings his findings to you, and you say “ridiculous! Everyone knows there are only two subatomic particles, the positive proton and the negative electron! How can you have a particle with no charge? All subatomic particles have charge!”
So adjust the data. That’s what science is. It’s always changing as we learn more about ourselves and our universe. Look, I’m really sorry that statistical conclusions drawn from inaccurate data aren’t helpful, but that’s true whether trans people exist or not.
But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important. How your body works genetically and how you feel are two different things. The conditions which led to your genetics may be a larger environmental issue and need to be accounted for.
Incredible how often when a transphobe is asked to explain these ‘important reasons’ it literally relates to games. I’m taking about grown adults, so deeply concerned about games with balls that checking whether children who play have balls is now a fixation.
How the fuck does that make it any business of anyone other than your motherfucking doctor, and even then, significantly less often than you’ve convinced yourself of? (seriously - if your GP keeps asking you about your genitals every time you go in to see them, you should report them and find a new one, E: never mind them even knowing your chromosomic or genetic or even hormonal make up)
You’re just a wilfully ignorant transphobe trying to pretend they aren’t one.
But you are.
And if that bothers you - you can just stop being one! I guarantee its easier than being a miserable hateful little bigot, no need for all that mental gymnastics, for starters…
If you were born a male with certain genetic factors, and you change your gender to female later in life, it is very important to know that you were born male with factors X Y Z and not female. It’s not a tough concept.
No, it isn’t a tough concept, you’re just a bigot. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I noticed that I edited my reply just as you posted this, so I’ll add this here because you made the exact leap I knew you would - does your doctor know your chromosomes? DNA? Have you ever even had your hormones tested? The answer is almost certainly “no”, because most people don’t, because those things are hardly ever relevant, and if they are, it isn’t because someone is trans (E: in most cases, anyway).
No matter how many ridiculous leaps you make, and how many times you swear you don’t care about gender at birth or whatever:
You
Are
A
Transphobe
No one gets tested for it because it’s very rare for it to not match up with your assigned sex at birth. Why spend hundreds of dollars on a test when you can just ask someone and get things right over 90% of the time? In recent years, doctors have always asked for both gender identity and assigned sex at birth, presumably because both are medically relevant.
But the OP is clearly not about medical data for healthcare purposes.
If a person born with XY chromosomes is more likely to get a disease, goes through the healing process of transformation, and then gets the disease… it would be nice to know for statiatics that it was an XY-born person. A beautiful woman, but born XY. If she gets the disease, it is false to say the disease affected an XX-person.
“I went into a trans friendly post with my transphobic talking points and people were rude to me! I am very upset about this and there is no way I could have seen this coming or prevented it!”
This comment feels like it’s from 2017 or something. If you’ve spent any amount of time on social media in the last few years, you know damn well how this comment would be responded to.
If trans athletes are causing a serious, quantifiable disruption in competitive sports, to the point you can direct me to multiple bodies of evidence that clearly show a trend of cis athletes being overshadowed, then, and only then will I agree there is a problem.
But there isn’t.
There was no reason to impose restrictions on trans athletes before there is any data to suggest they were a problem. They only reason is prejudice.
And the same goes for trans people in gendered bathrooms or any of the other shit people come up with as hypothetical problems for pearl clutching. You can imagine all kinds of ways gender could have “environmental” impacts. “Could” is the key word. We’re not going to operate on “could”. I want “is”.
Show me the trends. Show me the data. Show me where it’s a quantifiable problem first, then we’ll talk.
strawman argument 101: what if EXTREME EXAMPLE happened? this should dictate how we treat all levels of competition because (???)
you act as if being trans is a choice made at a whim, and can be easily made to take advantage of a situation. obviously if some major athlete came out there would be more than just “oh she competes in the womens league now”, but we dont have to talk about that because that is such a worthless strawman argument
The edge case is called that for a reason, dictating every level of competition based on edge cases is how you push a narritive
Let olympic athletes and organizers sort out how they want to handle the .01% of athletes that are trans, basically every other level of competition it doesnt fuckin matter. The only reason its brought up 99% of the time is to push a transphobic narritive and i am so fucking sick of it
the issue is bringing bigoted government legislation into what should be exclusively top level competition. you and i both know that ted cruz (example) isnt gonna be playing touchy when it comes to taking away our rights
if its just the top level people deciding what an advantage is, in just high level sport, then fair. but letting that seep down to collage, high school, and below is a path to genetal inspections on teens and children
I’d argue not even a “path to,” the same train of thought that gave you the sports thing is also currently pushing for children inspections at a disgusting rate.
I’m just curious, has any strangers’ genitalia impacted you in any way that actually matters? And no sports don’t count no one gives a shit about the .1% of athletes who are trans and how much of an AdVaNtAgE they have.
From where I’m sitting, people just need to shut the hell up about other people’s lives. They impact you in no way. Yet you impact their lives, taking their rights away and driving them to suicide. These types of comments literally contribute to suicide. Your comment could be the last straw for someone reading it, and they could choose to end their life because of you. And you sleep at night fine I’m sure. You should care about what that says about you.
Other people have hard lives and you don’t need to make them harder. Deal with your own shit. Let others do their best to deal with theirs.
I fight people and have opinions! Main thing right now being HEMA, mostly blunted axe + shield sparring. It’s mixed-gender and my experience is that men and women are pretty competitive with each other. I’ve also fenced competitively, which has male and female divisions but men and women practice against each other all the time. Across both sports, height is far, far more important than sex. Like if you’re 5’10", you inherently have an advantage in reaching your 5’6" opponent, whether they’re male or female. People focus on sex like it’s sufficient to equalize genetic advantages and “level the playing field” but think of the difference between the shortest man you know and the tallest man you know. Would you honestly say they’re on an even playing field in every sport because of their sex classification?
It really depends a lot on the sport, hormones and time do a lot more than you’d think, and male/female divisions aren’t a level playing field to begin with in many sports. Also sure, there is a reasonable discussion to have at a professional level, but in most sports at anything less than the most elite level it’s such a non issue. Anyone pushing to police it in kids’ sports via genital inspection has lost their minds.
No one truly cares about how a handful of trans athletes MaKe ThE gAmE uNfAiR. They like excuses to be cruel. You for example. Perfect evidence of that is that I point out the suicide rate and that the constant hate trans people are exposed to often causes them to commit suicide. You could not possibly give less of a fuck that you could be contributing to that. No self reflection whatsoever, even when a mirror is forced into your face. Brushed it away like it was absolutely not worth considering for a moment. You’re trash. You’re a liar. You’re grabbing onto a bullshit justification to spread hate.
You’re totally right. But the meme is probably referencing the fact that Republicans seem to care a lot about sex and gender when it comes to kids sports, or sports in general.
That comes off worse considering Republican states are banning transgender treatment, or allowing conversion therapy. Seems like they really don’t like the LGBT community and try to hide it behind “health” related or “sports equality” related reasons.
It’s clear that Joe is just a transphobe hiding behind “Oooo technically important oooo” ignoring the fact that the fascists want to check children’s genitals not for any of those “important” reasons
Wanting to ensure the fidelity of data is not transphobic. You can be trans, that’s fine. For data purposes, what were you born as? Male? Thanks. You’re a woman now? Ok cool.
wanting to probe my genitals while not being my doctor is transphobic, that is the only person who would EVER have to see my genitals. anything more is a sign of a serious issue, words cannot describe the discomfort that would cause me, and im a grown adult.
I can’t speak for chess, but in gaming where there’s similarly no sex advantage, female gamers are rarely seen at the higher levels because the environment is very hostile towards them. Creating a separate women’s league would alleviate this to some degree and encourage more women to actually try to reach for the top.
Top teams won’t even consider a woman. I recall years ago applying for top guilds in World of Warcraft. I logged onto TeamSpeak for the interview, said hello, and was immediately rejected because “women are too emotional to work with”.
A woman might be the best player in the world, but the sport doesn’t respect women and will deny her a platform .
Rude. Are you proud of your insult? How does that help the conversation? If a human doesn’t understand something, it is because they were never taught. You had an opportunity to educate someone about something you know. You had a chance to spread knowledge. You chose to insult them.
If there’s no genetic advantage for men, why did Chess have separate divisions?
The ACTUAL answer is misogyny. Chess was(and still is tbh) a very misogynistic “sport” back in the day, and many male professional chess players refused to play against women, and the ones that did play against them were often crude. To try and get more women interested in chess, women only divisions were created. It has literally nothing to do with genetic advantages.
The women’s sports that they care so highly about at this time for some reason. Next they’ll probably talk about some hypothetical niece that plays sports and “whatever will she do” in sports with the trans
If they were talking about that set it would be useful to specify that set. But of course that would mean using icky terms like “cis” instead of denying the humanity and even biological existence of trans people. Can’t be having that, now.
You are missing the fact that this issue is so unimportant and that even talking about it when everything else is on fire is… well… kind of moronic tbh.
There may be environmental issues which are dependent on your gender at birth.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this and why it’s important? I don’t understand how your gender at birth affects the environment in any way that matters.
I still don’t see how that’s relevant to the environment. I’m guessing you just misspoke there.
Good science will consider your assigned sex at birth for these stats where relevant. No one is disputing the value of having that information and no one has problems with it because this data is all anonymized. The problem that the OP is referring to is when this data is collected without anonymization and used to bring harm to specific people based on their medical records. There’s no reason for anyone besides your doctor to have access to your medical records. Scientific studies require explicit consent to get that data.
“means more” isn’t a factual statement, it’s a value judgement and some people value being the best version of themselves more than they value leading a miserable existence because of their genetics. Environmental issues are also just that: results of the environment rather than innate expression of X or Y chromosomes. The point the OP post is making is that instead of focusing on economic policies, global warming, and wars, politicians are more focused on who decides they’d be happier as a man/woman/non binary person. It’s a complete waste of time for everyone BUT doctors and researchers since we shouldn’t be judging or limiting what people can do based on what genitals they were born with, and instead be focusing on how to fix massive, glaring, and disastrous issues such as the ones described in the post.
But there’s a reason why your sex or gender at birth is important.
Sure, ok.
The point of this meme is: is it really more important than all of those issues listed? Is having a slightly skewed dataset (which will not happen because people that ACTUALLY need to, know that) more important than healthcare itself being a complete disaster?
They’re not related. The point of the meme is that, even among those extremely important issues that permeate the entire society, the thing republicans choose to focus their efforts on is this boogeyman fight against trans people.
Why is that the most important thing on their minds when a ridiculous amount of people are in crippling debt just because of health reasons and the whole planet is slowly turning into a frying pan?
I don’t think keeping lists of trans people is particularly good social awareness for stupidly obvious reasons: There’s a lot of people who would see such a list as a list of targets.
Realistically, most medical staff will be aware of commonalities. For instance in your example the specialist that treats "X’ disease will notice fairly quickly if a majority of their patients are trans especially since maybe up to 2% of the population is trans.
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You attacking people’s gender identities is certainly not making life easier.
“Important” and “mutable” are very different, non-mutually-exclusive concepts.
Correct. Which is literally why gender dysphoria and transgender identity exist. Studies have shown that the brains of transgender people more closely resemble that of their gender identity than their biosex. In case you missed it, the brain is the actual conscious part that experiences things and makes decisions in response to what it experiences, not the genitals. The brain can willingly choose to modify the body to fit its own ideals, such is its power. Why should people be prevented from doing that?
Please elaborate because I have no idea what this means. What larger environmental issue is apart of genetics? The only environmental issue I can think of is which sperm fertilised the egg, which research has shown more or less boils down to random chance. There’s no external regulating force that’s balancing the ratio of males and females so I don’t see why environmental factors should prevent someone from changing their gender.
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Who asked for your trash opinion?
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It’s unimportant for literally everyone but them until puberty
And from that point on its their and their doctors problem
It isn’t like the data will be displayed to the world. The dude is just talking about science having data points.
It is a person seeing that the child was born XY, write that down, and… not even the name is needed. The point of data, a (+1), let’s science know there is now +1XY.
The data doesn’t affect the person in any way.
Science doesn’t need those data points though, as stated preciously, it’s not useful to anyone
Simple as
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Then it isn’t helpful data to be collecting.
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Hey, I’ve got a novel idea. Stay out of other people’s pants. Ez PZ.
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So the one percent of people who are trans are going to fuck up medical statistics? That’s your pathetic excuse for these comments? The most generous one can possibly be with you here is to say that’s a huge stretch. It’s certainly a weird thing to focus on.
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You’re being rude. All the guy is saying is that it might affect data.
Does that make them a transphobe to say that male genetics has a higher chance for colon cancer and having it be tracked as a woman would dilute/fog up the data?
Science and data are objective. This guy just cares about numbers, not your sex and gender. Just the numbers of it.
Do you think that they don’t have your whole medical history? Like if they’re looking for a Y-chromosome associated cancer they’ll just pull up my surgical and prescription history and see “oh yeah that’s related” or they’ll order a karyotyping to ensure they’re correct because XY-AFAB people and XX-AMAB people aren’t *that^ rare of an intersex condition, especially as chimerism is downright common.
However what’s much more common is hormonally associated phenomena that aren’t extremely well known to be such. The most famous example is that after not very long on hormones trans people’s heart attack symptoms change to our hormonal sex’s. For a long time it was so rarely known amongst emergency room professionals that trans people were more likely to die of a heart attack.
But beyond this, that’s medical professionals and it’s a complicated discussion that’s currently happening in both the medical and trans communities by those who are affected most by it and those who are experts on these topics. What was clearly meant by this post was not that, but rather that people should feel 100% certain as to what is between the legs of every acquaintance and stranger they meet and that the government needs to know what each and every individual’s birth sex is.
So what you’re saying is you don’t think people should be able to fully choose what they identify as because it introduces uncertainty in data when you’d rather have two hard categories? Hate to break it to you, but that’s not how science nor statistics work, especially not biology or biostatistics. There are no hard lines anywhere in nature, give me any seemingly binary categorisation in a biological or ecological system and I guarantee there will be exceptions that don’t fit into either category, fit between them, fit both simultaneously, etc. The way science deals with this is to simply acknowledge this fact and embrace it. You will never hear a proper scientist lamenting that there are too many exceptions, because the exceptions are literally what they study and give far more insights into the world than if they had stuck to their hard categories.
What you’re basically saying is that science should dictate how the world works when that’s the antithesis of science. How the world works dictate science, it’s literally a tool for describing the world. Science does not tell you what to do, it tells you what it observes, full stop.
You and another commenter both mentioned the scenario of a person of a certain gender at birth identifying as transgender, getting diagnosed with some condition, and therefore being “miscategorized” as another gender with the condition. Okay, yes that would happen, but I wouldn’t call it miscategorization because the very concept of gender and biosex is not a hard line of one or the other. In fact, if the researchers of that hypothetical study cared about accuracy of the categorizations, they wouldn’t have had the participants choose between only two categories. For example, they could have had five: cis-male, cis-female, trans-male, trans-female, and other, but of course even those are simplifications of the continuous spectrum of gender. I don’t know of a single transgender person that would choose the cis option if also given the trans option on a medical study like this, I’m sure they exist, but so few that they would never be statically significant in a properly executed study and probably a lot fewer than the number of people who misclick and select a gender they didn’t mean to with realising. So you getting mad about trans people “fucking up” medical data is either a total strawman, or you actually meant to get mad about improper study designs that produce low quality data by not allowing people to accurately report information about themselves.
And if you try to argue that there are “only” two categories and the others are just “lost” or “confused” or something, then you’ll also have to answer for how nonbinary sex genes themselves should be dealt with. Not every person’s chromosomes are XX or XY, some have XXX, XYY, XXYY, etc, or even more complex would be if the X and Y chromosome undergoes meiosis a little differently than normal during sperm formation, resulting in, for example, an X chromosome that contains the male SRY gene or a Y chromosome that lacks that gene or an X or Y chromosome that lack and/or have added certain sex defining genes in general, sometimes causing the individual to have both sets of reproductive organs, or in even rarer circumstances, no reproductive organs at all. Some people are born with what appears as one biosex organ, only for it to change and/or another one to crop up during puberty as the sex organs develop, other have an underdeveloped version of the other set of sex organs completely inside their bodies which go unnoticed their whole lives. What biosex should those people be categorised into? You also mention HRT as if people undergoing HRT are the exact same biologically as they were before. For example, what if the hormones or other gender affirming procedures are what caused or predisposed the condition in question which they then report as being their gender identity and having that condition? In that case did they get accurately categorised in your eyes?
Finally, you know the last part of those science reports you had to write in school, the discussion section? That is another way science accounts for these exceptions by, you know, discussing them, instead of just pretending they don’t exist. For example, in this study the researchers would definitely comment on the existence of transgender identity and that the genders people report may not match their sex assigned at birth, because, once again, science is about describing the world with all its beautiful nuance and complexity, it does not and must not ignore those complexities.
As a metaphor for this scenario, what you are basically saying is that a rainbow has only seven colours and no more, when in reality a rainbow is a continuous spectrum of every visible wavelength and has an uncountably infinite number of colours. You can always find a wavelength that’s between the two you had previously found, just like how you can always find a nonbinary exception to the two most common genders. Or another metaphor, imagine if James Chadwick discovers the neutron and brings his findings to you, and you say “ridiculous! Everyone knows there are only two subatomic particles, the positive proton and the negative electron! How can you have a particle with no charge? All subatomic particles have charge!”
So adjust the data. That’s what science is. It’s always changing as we learn more about ourselves and our universe. Look, I’m really sorry that statistical conclusions drawn from inaccurate data aren’t helpful, but that’s true whether trans people exist or not.
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Do I think it’s important for a medical doctor? Sure. Do I think it’s important for you to know? No. Why would it be?
Incredible how often when a transphobe is asked to explain these ‘important reasons’ it literally relates to games. I’m taking about grown adults, so deeply concerned about games with balls that checking whether children who play have balls is now a fixation.
How the fuck does that make it any business of anyone other than your motherfucking doctor, and even then, significantly less often than you’ve convinced yourself of? (seriously - if your GP keeps asking you about your genitals every time you go in to see them, you should report them and find a new one, E: never mind them even knowing your chromosomic or genetic or even hormonal make up)
You’re just a wilfully ignorant transphobe trying to pretend they aren’t one.
But you are.
And if that bothers you - you can just stop being one! I guarantee its easier than being a miserable hateful little bigot, no need for all that mental gymnastics, for starters…
Otherwise - fuck off back up your own ass…
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No, it isn’t a tough concept, you’re just a bigot. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I noticed that I edited my reply just as you posted this, so I’ll add this here because you made the exact leap I knew you would - does your doctor know your chromosomes? DNA? Have you ever even had your hormones tested? The answer is almost certainly “no”, because most people don’t, because those things are hardly ever relevant, and if they are, it isn’t because someone is trans (E: in most cases, anyway).
No matter how many ridiculous leaps you make, and how many times you swear you don’t care about gender at birth or whatever:
You
Are
A
Transphobe
No one gets tested for it because it’s very rare for it to not match up with your assigned sex at birth. Why spend hundreds of dollars on a test when you can just ask someone and get things right over 90% of the time? In recent years, doctors have always asked for both gender identity and assigned sex at birth, presumably because both are medically relevant.
But the OP is clearly not about medical data for healthcare purposes.
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If a person born with XY chromosomes is more likely to get a disease, goes through the healing process of transformation, and then gets the disease… it would be nice to know for statiatics that it was an XY-born person. A beautiful woman, but born XY. If she gets the disease, it is false to say the disease affected an XX-person.
This is not transphobic.
Give one example of anything like this ever happening.
Why are you so incapable of learning?
I would guess because people such as yourself insult and don’t teach. I’m grouchy tonight.
“I went into a trans friendly post with my transphobic talking points and people were rude to me! I am very upset about this and there is no way I could have seen this coming or prevented it!”
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This comment feels like it’s from 2017 or something. If you’ve spent any amount of time on social media in the last few years, you know damn well how this comment would be responded to.
If trans athletes are causing a serious, quantifiable disruption in competitive sports, to the point you can direct me to multiple bodies of evidence that clearly show a trend of cis athletes being overshadowed, then, and only then will I agree there is a problem.
But there isn’t.
There was no reason to impose restrictions on trans athletes before there is any data to suggest they were a problem. They only reason is prejudice.
And the same goes for trans people in gendered bathrooms or any of the other shit people come up with as hypothetical problems for pearl clutching. You can imagine all kinds of ways gender could have “environmental” impacts. “Could” is the key word. We’re not going to operate on “could”. I want “is”.
Show me the trends. Show me the data. Show me where it’s a quantifiable problem first, then we’ll talk.
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strawman argument 101: what if EXTREME EXAMPLE happened? this should dictate how we treat all levels of competition because (???)
you act as if being trans is a choice made at a whim, and can be easily made to take advantage of a situation. obviously if some major athlete came out there would be more than just “oh she competes in the womens league now”, but we dont have to talk about that because that is such a worthless strawman argument
how will this affect lebrons legacy
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The edge case is called that for a reason, dictating every level of competition based on edge cases is how you push a narritive
Let olympic athletes and organizers sort out how they want to handle the .01% of athletes that are trans, basically every other level of competition it doesnt fuckin matter. The only reason its brought up 99% of the time is to push a transphobic narritive and i am so fucking sick of it
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the issue is bringing bigoted government legislation into what should be exclusively top level competition. you and i both know that ted cruz (example) isnt gonna be playing touchy when it comes to taking away our rights
if its just the top level people deciding what an advantage is, in just high level sport, then fair. but letting that seep down to collage, high school, and below is a path to genetal inspections on teens and children
I’d argue not even a “path to,” the same train of thought that gave you the sports thing is also currently pushing for children inspections at a disgusting rate.
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You need to get out of your small town you’ve never left and meet some people who are more educated who can help you.
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I know I’m not wrong just by reading this.
I’m just curious, has any strangers’ genitalia impacted you in any way that actually matters? And no sports don’t count no one gives a shit about the .1% of athletes who are trans and how much of an AdVaNtAgE they have.
From where I’m sitting, people just need to shut the hell up about other people’s lives. They impact you in no way. Yet you impact their lives, taking their rights away and driving them to suicide. These types of comments literally contribute to suicide. Your comment could be the last straw for someone reading it, and they could choose to end their life because of you. And you sleep at night fine I’m sure. You should care about what that says about you.
Other people have hard lives and you don’t need to make them harder. Deal with your own shit. Let others do their best to deal with theirs.
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Think about women’s sports!
Which women’s sports do you play or watch ?
I fight people and have opinions! Main thing right now being HEMA, mostly blunted axe + shield sparring. It’s mixed-gender and my experience is that men and women are pretty competitive with each other. I’ve also fenced competitively, which has male and female divisions but men and women practice against each other all the time. Across both sports, height is far, far more important than sex. Like if you’re 5’10", you inherently have an advantage in reaching your 5’6" opponent, whether they’re male or female. People focus on sex like it’s sufficient to equalize genetic advantages and “level the playing field” but think of the difference between the shortest man you know and the tallest man you know. Would you honestly say they’re on an even playing field in every sport because of their sex classification?
It really depends a lot on the sport, hormones and time do a lot more than you’d think, and male/female divisions aren’t a level playing field to begin with in many sports. Also sure, there is a reasonable discussion to have at a professional level, but in most sports at anything less than the most elite level it’s such a non issue. Anyone pushing to police it in kids’ sports via genital inspection has lost their minds.
No one truly cares about how a handful of trans athletes MaKe ThE gAmE uNfAiR. They like excuses to be cruel. You for example. Perfect evidence of that is that I point out the suicide rate and that the constant hate trans people are exposed to often causes them to commit suicide. You could not possibly give less of a fuck that you could be contributing to that. No self reflection whatsoever, even when a mirror is forced into your face. Brushed it away like it was absolutely not worth considering for a moment. You’re trash. You’re a liar. You’re grabbing onto a bullshit justification to spread hate.
You’re totally right. But the meme is probably referencing the fact that Republicans seem to care a lot about sex and gender when it comes to kids sports, or sports in general. That comes off worse considering Republican states are banning transgender treatment, or allowing conversion therapy. Seems like they really don’t like the LGBT community and try to hide it behind “health” related or “sports equality” related reasons.
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As a trans man, I see this as an absolute win. /s
I’m just making a pedantic joke btw. I’m assuming you’re talking about cis women.
It’s clear that Joe is just a transphobe hiding behind “Oooo technically important oooo” ignoring the fact that the fascists want to check children’s genitals not for any of those “important” reasons
Wanting to ensure the fidelity of data is not transphobic. You can be trans, that’s fine. For data purposes, what were you born as? Male? Thanks. You’re a woman now? Ok cool.
What is transphobic here?
wanting to probe my genitals while not being my doctor is transphobic, that is the only person who would EVER have to see my genitals. anything more is a sign of a serious issue, words cannot describe the discomfort that would cause me, and im a grown adult.
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No it’s not.
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You keep saying that but never giving a fucking logical reason. Reading your schizophrenic replies is getting old.
Explain, why it’s fucking important. Saying its important doesn’t make it so.
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I’m confused, what are you saying?
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I dunno, why?
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I can’t speak for chess, but in gaming where there’s similarly no sex advantage, female gamers are rarely seen at the higher levels because the environment is very hostile towards them. Creating a separate women’s league would alleviate this to some degree and encourage more women to actually try to reach for the top.
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Because the field is known to be hostile to women and filled with creepy incels? Have you SEEN how they act anytime a “female gamer” pops up?
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Top teams won’t even consider a woman. I recall years ago applying for top guilds in World of Warcraft. I logged onto TeamSpeak for the interview, said hello, and was immediately rejected because “women are too emotional to work with”.
A woman might be the best player in the world, but the sport doesn’t respect women and will deny her a platform .
You must be a troll account because a human capable of literacy asking that question honestly is beyond comprehension.
Rude. Are you proud of your insult? How does that help the conversation? If a human doesn’t understand something, it is because they were never taught. You had an opportunity to educate someone about something you know. You had a chance to spread knowledge. You chose to insult them.
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The ACTUAL answer is misogyny. Chess was(and still is tbh) a very misogynistic “sport” back in the day, and many male professional chess players refused to play against women, and the ones that did play against them were often crude. To try and get more women interested in chess, women only divisions were created. It has literally nothing to do with genetic advantages.
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Statistics(link).
The women’s sports that they care so highly about at this time for some reason. Next they’ll probably talk about some hypothetical niece that plays sports and “whatever will she do” in sports with the trans
If they were talking about that set it would be useful to specify that set. But of course that would mean using icky terms like “cis” instead of denying the humanity and even biological existence of trans people. Can’t be having that, now.
You are missing the fact that this issue is so unimportant and that even talking about it when everything else is on fire is… well… kind of moronic tbh.
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by this and why it’s important? I don’t understand how your gender at birth affects the environment in any way that matters.
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I still don’t see how that’s relevant to the environment. I’m guessing you just misspoke there.
Good science will consider your assigned sex at birth for these stats where relevant. No one is disputing the value of having that information and no one has problems with it because this data is all anonymized. The problem that the OP is referring to is when this data is collected without anonymization and used to bring harm to specific people based on their medical records. There’s no reason for anyone besides your doctor to have access to your medical records. Scientific studies require explicit consent to get that data.
“means more” isn’t a factual statement, it’s a value judgement and some people value being the best version of themselves more than they value leading a miserable existence because of their genetics. Environmental issues are also just that: results of the environment rather than innate expression of X or Y chromosomes. The point the OP post is making is that instead of focusing on economic policies, global warming, and wars, politicians are more focused on who decides they’d be happier as a man/woman/non binary person. It’s a complete waste of time for everyone BUT doctors and researchers since we shouldn’t be judging or limiting what people can do based on what genitals they were born with, and instead be focusing on how to fix massive, glaring, and disastrous issues such as the ones described in the post.
It is but unfortunately ignoring it just leads to our rights being stripped more
Sure, ok.
The point of this meme is: is it really more important than all of those issues listed? Is having a slightly skewed dataset (which will not happen because people that ACTUALLY need to, know that) more important than healthcare itself being a complete disaster?
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They’re not related. The point of the meme is that, even among those extremely important issues that permeate the entire society, the thing republicans choose to focus their efforts on is this boogeyman fight against trans people.
Why is that the most important thing on their minds when a ridiculous amount of people are in crippling debt just because of health reasons and the whole planet is slowly turning into a frying pan?
It’s not that simple. Brains and exterior bodies are not necessarily coordinated like that, and bodies themselves take a myriad of forms.
Don’t be fooled by those saying “there are only Men and Women and That’s That.” It’s not true.
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I don’t think keeping lists of trans people is particularly good social awareness for stupidly obvious reasons: There’s a lot of people who would see such a list as a list of targets.
Realistically, most medical staff will be aware of commonalities. For instance in your example the specialist that treats "X’ disease will notice fairly quickly if a majority of their patients are trans especially since maybe up to 2% of the population is trans.
People are more than just data points.
You’re right, it’s important for your doctor to know that stuff. And no one else.