Saudi Arabia’s top diplomat has said the kingdom will not normalize relations with Israel or contribute to Gaza’s reconstruction without a credible pathway to a Palestinian state.
Ethnostates are inherently bad. You cannot have a state for a single ethnicity or religion and not have it descend into apartheid or worse. Zionism is inherently bad.
Of course, it would be ideal if there was no minority oppression whatsoever. However, once you see things such as holocaust, we must assure that the actions won’t happen again. How else would you want to garant it in a better way than creating a state?
My friend, more groups were killed than just Jewish peoples in the Holocaust. Are you advocating for a state for Roma people also? Where should we get that state to give to them? There is and has been no such thing as “open” land for centuries, since the completion of the partitioning of the world between imperialist states in the previous centuries. So, by advocating for state creation, you are inherently advocating for dispossession and expulsion of those who live in that area.
What about the indigenous Americans whom have suffered the worst known genocide in human history, should we pick a place in Europe and give them a country there by kicking out the historic residents of that region? Why is granting a people statehood your only perceived method of preventing violence?
How and where can you set up this mythical state without inherently requiring the kinds of oppressions and violence we see in Israel?
You would feel differently if you and your family were forcibly evicted from your land and told it belonged to others now.
Especially if you and your family had absolutely no connection to an event like the Holocaust. Which is the situation that the Palestinians experienced - last I checked it was Germans, not Arabs, who committed the Holocaust. And yet, somehow, no German land was converted into a new state.
Um, kind of, Prussia and Silesia have been converted from German land to Polish land, just so that Poland could move all their people from east Poland to west Poland and give east Polish lands to the USSR (and now Ukraine).
So the Germans lost that land, but the Jews didn’t get it. The English instead gave them their Palestine.
Zionism itself is not that bad. I believe that after many years of oppression Jews deserve to have their own state.
However, radical Zionism (such as Kahanism) is a plague.
Ethnostates are inherently bad. You cannot have a state for a single ethnicity or religion and not have it descend into apartheid or worse. Zionism is inherently bad.
Of course, it would be ideal if there was no minority oppression whatsoever. However, once you see things such as holocaust, we must assure that the actions won’t happen again. How else would you want to garant it in a better way than creating a state?
My friend, more groups were killed than just Jewish peoples in the Holocaust. Are you advocating for a state for Roma people also? Where should we get that state to give to them? There is and has been no such thing as “open” land for centuries, since the completion of the partitioning of the world between imperialist states in the previous centuries. So, by advocating for state creation, you are inherently advocating for dispossession and expulsion of those who live in that area.
What about the indigenous Americans whom have suffered the worst known genocide in human history, should we pick a place in Europe and give them a country there by kicking out the historic residents of that region? Why is granting a people statehood your only perceived method of preventing violence?
How and where can you set up this mythical state without inherently requiring the kinds of oppressions and violence we see in Israel?
I demand a gay state only for LGBT+ people, especially because after the war we were left in the camps still.
Shit we also need a state just for the leftists who were locked up.
And a 3rd for the queer leftists.
And the furries have had it too hard for too long. Where is their state?
Nah Furries didn’t even exist like 20 years ago. It’s just some internet neckbeards.
I’m pagan, give me a fucking state, too. I demand Britain since Stonehenge is located there.
You would feel differently if you and your family were forcibly evicted from your land and told it belonged to others now.
Especially if you and your family had absolutely no connection to an event like the Holocaust. Which is the situation that the Palestinians experienced - last I checked it was Germans, not Arabs, who committed the Holocaust. And yet, somehow, no German land was converted into a new state.
Um, kind of, Prussia and Silesia have been converted from German land to Polish land, just so that Poland could move all their people from east Poland to west Poland and give east Polish lands to the USSR (and now Ukraine).
So the Germans lost that land, but the Jews didn’t get it. The English instead gave them their Palestine.
Dude, that was Russia doing that. Russia controlled that entire region until 1990.
I wrote USSR, what do you mean?
You were using that to justify the English giving Palestine to the Israelis. But two wrongs doesn’t make a right.
No, I did not justify anything, perhaps it sounded to you that I did, that was not my intention.
Arab authorities supported Hitler in general.
But I partially agree with you. Israel should have been established but at the same time lives of people there should have been unchanged.
Just like no Jews should have been expelled from Arab countries.
Unfortunately, they started a war and it ended badly for both sides.
The belief that any group of people are entitled to live anywhere because of their religion (religious nationalism) is bad.
I agree, however, once a certain group is oppressed for decades, a state where they can continue living seems very logical
Sure, but I don’t think they should get to pick and choose where they get to be.
Zionists disagree, and this is the result of appeasing them.
So what should we do? Ask them where they want to belong, remove that place from list and vote again?
No, I didn’t suggest that and don’t pretend that I did.
How about a compromise? There is plenty of room in the US for them.