everyone else in the restaurant:
What annoys me isn’t that they ask for a tip, it’s how much they ask. I’m willing to round up to the nearest dollar if the service was good, but those little iPads always seem to ask for at least 15%. I am not giving a 15% tip to someone who only pressed buttons on a tablet.
This was so weird in the US. Everywhere you get asked for a tip. I got a tip screen even in a supermarket once. For the cashier. I got back home to the EU today and was happy to not tip anymore everywhere…
It’s the Square checkouts and the other new POS like them. I’m pretty sure Square takes a chunk of the tip which is why they’re enabled by default (and I’m not sure you can disable them).
Over here in the UK we don’t tip as a rule, unless we’ve been directly served by someone, and even then it’s mostly just to leave whatever change there may be.
But it’s become very fucking common for chain shops to ask if we want to round up to the nearest £ and donate that money to whichever charity they’re working with.
And my answer is always, always, no.
Why not if it is a charity? I’m guessing you’re not trusting them?
Because it just doesn’t feel right to me. And I know that it’s kinda churlish, but there’s a part of me that doesn’t want huge supermarket chains who keep posting record profits while paying the bare minimum they legally have to, to take the credit for me donating a few quid a month in rounding up my bill. Many of the charities wouldn’t be needed as much if these companies actually paid adequate wages.
Do what you want, but that’s not how that works. Businesses aren’t “using” or “taking” your donation or claiming them as their own. They’re basically just serving as a collection point for whatever charity indicated. If you choose not to claim it yourself, that’s your choice, but the donation is “from” you “to” the charity. The supermarket or whatever just provides visibility for the charity and the collections logistics. It saves those charities having to find people to stand outside and ring a bell and hope you have change in your pocket.
If you’re not contributing to a charity in lieu of not participating in these “round up donations” programs, then you’re simply choosing to not donate to charity. Which is fine, as far as that goes.
Oh aye, I know they’re not claiming tax or anything like that, and I get that it’s essentially just a digital version of having a change pot on the counter, but it still feels like Tesco getting to crow about how much their customers have helped raise, while they’re paying as little as they can legally get away with, y’know?
But ultimately it’s not really rational response, and I know that.
I get you. I basically swing back and forth between how you feel, “hell with this corporate public image campaign” and going “well, what the hell, it’s .12 for a good cause.”
That way I’m being irrational in all directions.
I might be wrong but don’t they use these charities to get tax reductions?
I don’t think they do, but I’ve seen them announce things like " company name teamed up with x charity and we managed $200,000 !"
Conveniently forgetting to mention that they donated little to nothing themselves.
Charity donations are tax deductible (usually) so what you’re doing is giving the business a means to bring down their contributions for the year. It’d really be best if you just donated directly.
Deductible means they don’t pay taxes on the money they donated
It does nothing to reduce the tax burden on their profits, if the money they’re donating wouldn’t have been profit in the first placeNo. That’s not how that works.
And the tip defaults to 20%… and a lot of times there’s no service involved, or it’s before service is provided.
Not tomorrow either. Flashing that in front of me doesn’t mean I’m tipping you for grabbing a donut 6feet away from you and putting it in a bag. That’s literally your job. Charge me the amount it costs for the item and your labor don’t try to prey on my charitabilty. I use those feelings to distribute the limited extra I have to give to research for sick kids, educational charities, housing initiatives, and anti-gun lobbyists. Fuck if you’re anywhere near those categories donut slinger. Tell your boss to fuck himself for even putting that shit in front of customers.
You seem really mad at the person behind the counter, perhaps instead consider being mad at the millionaires and billionaires in charge that decided to make it this way.
Not mad at them, just not impressed enough to pay beyond the asking price. I don’t have a sense of guilt or obligation about it. When possible I would urge people to choose jobs that pay fairly and don’t support this awful system. I fully understand that’s easier said then done (I’ve been there myself). I don’t even really blame the millionaires. We all have at least a touch of greed in us, some more than others, and any system that allows this to get to crazy proportions will foster this kind of nonsense. The answer isn’t to just make Millionaires feel bad until they stop this - that’s not going to happen. The answer is legislation that recognizes that tip culture is wrong on so many levels, that most of the world manages to keep it in check and that in the US laws are needed to curb this insanity. In the meantime, people are able to swing culture shifts and it’s up to all of us to start saying enough is enough to tip culture and as much as possible spend our money at places that aren’t capitalizing on charity to pay their employees. Recognize the racism and sexism in this practice and treat it like the dirty thing it is.
As a weed smoker for something like 25 years who has spent his time doing a lot of studying of the science because I understand that it is not an inert substance, and I know its affecting my health long-term somehow…
I’ve seen the studies that have shown specific strains have more to do with different “highs” than whether it is indica or sativa (nevermind that there is no such thing as a true indica anymore.), do you have any idea how I feel when some fucking twentysomething starts telling me about the (bogus) differences between sativa and indica and expects me to give a shit when all I care about is potency.
Like sorry, you’re not getting a tip for knowing less than me, some bum off the street, about the stuff I’m putting in my body.
Pure indicas no longer exist? And strains are more important?
Would love to read more if you could point me in the right direction.
You really, really wouldn’t want to smoke a pure indica, imo. I’ve smoked an actual indica and it was mostly stem and tasted like dirt. It has not had the selective breeding that has produced big, oily buds that people love to smoke.
It’s honestly a lot like corn before it was selectively bred by humans for thousands of years versus modern corn.
Here’s a good scientific study on it:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0133292
From the Abstract:
Using 14,031 single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) genotyped in 81 marijuana and 43 hemp samples, we show that marijuana and hemp are significantly differentiated at a genome-wide level, demonstrating that the distinction between these populations is not limited to genes underlying THC production. We find a moderate correlation between the genetic structure of marijuana strains and their reported C. sativa and C. indica ancestry and show that marijuana strain names often do not reflect a meaningful genetic identity. We also provide evidence that hemp is genetically more similar to C. indica type marijuana than to C. sativa strains.
That last bit from the abstract is the money quote on Indica. Real Indicas are closer to hemp, and hemp hasn’t been selectively bred for flavor and getting high. So a “real” Indica is going to be a lot like smoking… hemp.
Anyway, long story short is that individual strains and the chemical combinations therein have more influence over the high you get than the idea that they’re “sativa” or “indica.”
Here’s an article with a short interview with Sean Myles, who was involved in and credited with this study.
https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/indica-sativa-difference-cannabis-weed-science.html
A few places tried this when I was in Greece over the summer.
Step one - NO CHANCE, STAVROS
Step two - Straight onto my favourite review sites and leave one-star reviews for spoiling my fuckin lunch, you cunts 😂
Fuck bringing that shite over here
I have no problem tipping wait staff or bartenders for the service, but I’ll be damned if the cashier at my local Chinese restaurant is getting a tip because they handed me a bag of carryout food I ordered online… tipping has definitely gotten out of control.
I partially blame the POS programmers that have that option for the take out counter, then especially so for the managers that implement it
With this little change, you might think you’re supplementing their minimum wage pay, but the owner can lower their pay to the “federal tipped minimum” in some states. You basically just make it cheaper for the owner in the long run (they’re probably sold on this by the Point Of Sale software company), and the workers can get little or no extra money.
I feel you on that, but I’m in California so that’s not the case here. I think owners/companies are just able to pitch counter help to job hunters as $x/hr plus tips, and people feel compelled to tip when prompted on the screen while the counter person stares them down.
Tip functionality is a business decision that comes from the top. The Devs have no say in whether a feature is included or not, and dislike it as much as you do.
Oh for sure, I was talking more of the small independent shops, but I probably should’ve specified owners instead of managers
If you’re serving me alcohol (or something similar) at a bar, you get $1 per drink. If you’re taking my order at a table and bringing me food, you get 15%. That’s it.
It’s getting ridiculous though like even gas stations are starting to ask. Like sorry why should I leave a tip to get a Snickers and bottle of water rung up?
Did you bring it to me or otherwise preform extra effort for me ik the ordering process? No? Then fuck off you’ve already earned your pay
Jesus, there’s a lot of hate for workers in this thread… 😬
Edit: I understand why employers do this, but the fact is they DO do it, and denying tips isn’t going to make employers pay their workers more money. They only understand money, not sympathy, and all you’re doing is taking away the employees’ money, not theirs. If it’s not hurting them, they’re not going to raise wages because they simply don’t care.
So while one stands there refusing to tip out of a (not entirely incorrect) philosophical viewpoint, those workers reliant on tips will be starving because without said tips they can’t afford rent let alone food.
In other words, I agree with the general logic behind the conclusion but not the specific logic.
TL;DR:
Making the employers pay the employees more money? Great!
Attempting to do it by hurting the employees but not the employer? Not so great!
Don’t make excuses for employers and shift the blame to customers. Missing out on W2 wages means that you are not going to have any social security in retirement unless you actually declare all your tips.
Yeah, I wasn’t. Read the edit.
I worked in food service and retail for a long time, not tipped. The idea that I have to leave a tip for putting my stuff in a bag and handing it to me is ludicrous to me. Employers can pay less because they can tell new hires they get tips.
Business owners need to pay their damn employees and stop using the registers to beg customers for more money.
Business owners need to pay their damn employees and stop using the registers to beg customers for more money.
And how exactly are you getting that message across by stiffing your fellow workers? Business owner makes the same money regardless.
I always tip. Not because the service was good or whatever. No one should have to earn a living being a circus monkey. Everyone deserves dignity at work. And everyone deserves a living wage.
By not supporting the worker, you’re playing into the game set up ny business owners and CEOs which is to foster an environment of in-fighting of the working class so they can continue to hoard wealth they don’t need.
So yeah, I’ll always tip and then I give grief to the owner to pay their employees as you say. Because it’s them who sets up that worker-on-worker fight club because that’s where the grief needs to go. Not the person trying to live on meager wages and deal with shitty customers.
And this, folks, is why tipping culture continues to get worse.
“Tipping culture” is a very reductive way to describe a living wage, but sure. Go you.
Tipping culture and living wage are not the same thing at all. It’s the owner’s responsibility to pay a living wage.
Plenty of places, even in retail and food service, pay a living wage without resorting to using the registers to beg.
So yeah, I’ll always tip and then I give grief to the owner to pay their employees as you say
Why would they pay their employees, if you are doing exactly what they want you? You always tip, so they always don’t have to pay it out of their own pockets.
I’m sure the owners keep saying “yes I’m so sorry I’ll consider it” and once they’re out of your sight they grin and think of it not a second more.
Because giving grief to the workers doesn’t trickle up to the owners. They make the same money regardless.
You can give shit to the owners while making sure workers make a living wage. These things are not related.
If you don’t want to tip, then don’t tip. But still give grief to the owners. If everyone shit on the owners as much as the staff things would change.
I can guarantee you that giving grief to the owners does nothing at all and changes nothing.
You cannot hope that people telling owners “this is bad I don’t like it at all” while still paying will change anything. It’s not how the world works.
Tips are an unnecessary evil.
if u are in :amerikkka: and u have the means please tip people whenever and wherever you can, if leaving a tip is an option it is likely because the person you’re interacting with is being crushed under pitiful wages and astronomical expenses
We all are, hiding it doesn’t help.
This is exactly how it feels
That’s why you look them dead in the eye as you do it.
“I know exactly what I’m doing, and if you’ve got a problem with your pay, go talk to your boss.”
It gets easier the more you do it. Don’t feel bad for not giving away the money you own.
It would be better if the workers were actually paid enough.
You’re not wrong, but I’m sure as hell not subsidizing it.
They get paid what they get paid. Get another job if it doesn’t pay enough.
The workers are paid enough. Other people are still tipping and most tipped workers prefer the tipping system over an actual livable wage because they make more in tips.
You could try feeling bad for your server who can’t pay their rent or buy groceries because you decided they don’t deserve money for their work. Whether you like it or not, that’s the reality, and it’s as real as anything can ever be when you work all day and don’t make enough money to buy yourself a meal.
It seems fairly presumptuous of you to assume that your server can’t pay their rent or buy groceries, especially when the servers make more off of tips than most people make with their hourly wage. And I’m not sure where you think it’s my decision whether they deserve money for their work, I’m not their employer. It seems to me like you think customers should not only pay for something but should also pay the employees serving it to them. Where does the responsibility come in for the employer? Also, at some point personal responsibility comes into play, you can’t expect everyone to give you handouts all the time.
I worked in fine dining for 10 years. So no, it’s not presumptuous of me because I am speaking from personal experience based on my own life as well as many, many people I have known. I’d say that I’m one of the least presumptuous people in this thread when it comes to this topic.
It would be great if employers would pay servers a living wage, but that simply isn’t the way things actually work in restaurants.
Personal responsibility? Handouts??! Tell you what, how about you go to work for 8 hours every day and then have your business’s clients decide whether or not you deserve any money at all for the work you do. Would you say you’re just asking for a handout, or would you say that you deserve to be paid for the work you did?
I would be questioning why I expect my clients to pay me when that’s what my employer does.
Why am I not surprised with your total lack of empathy?
If you don’t like tipping and actually believe that people should be paid for the work they do, then don’t eat at restaurants. Show those restaurant owners why they should pay people, and be the change you want to see in the world. Otherwise, you’re just an asshole.
I certainly have empathy, it’s just located in a different spot than yours. We both want the same thing, servers to get what they deserve. You though think that I customer should pay the wages of an employee which makes absolutely no sense to me. To me the employer, the one that actually making money, should be the one to pay their employee. I’m just trying to figure out why you think the way you do.
I was never trying to justify the arrangement where the employer doesn’t pay the employee. However, the reality of the situation is that it doesn’t happen that way. In the U.S., at least, servers make their living almost exclusively by being tipped. Yeah, it’s shitty of employers not to offer a better wage, but it’s equally shitty for people to go to restaurants–fully aware that servers need tips to make ends meet–without tipping servers.
The thing is, it’s your BUSINESS’s clients, not yours. You said so yourself just now. You work for the business, which sells services to the clients. At no point the clients should pay you directly.
Using my profession as a software developer (and putting aside the salary of a developer because I know it’s not comparable in terms of salaries, but bear with me for the sake of the example) - sometimes clients pay money for new features that they want our service to have. I do all the work of researching it, understanding the requirements, I design the feature, write code for it, do automation tests for it, deploy it, and enable it - all for my client. It took me 3 months.
But hey, I did all that and the client never paid me. They paid the place I work for. How come? I would love to get 15% of the money the customer paid. But it’s just not happening. I do not get a tip.
But that’s fine. Because this is how it works in almost all industries. A client pays the business. The business hires workers and pays them. The workers keep the place running by doing their jobs which ends up in sales.
We (as a society) don’t pay tips to a doctor doing a physical exam on us. We don’t pay tips to a city worker approving our registrations. We don’t pay tips to a university professor teaching us a course. Those all examples of professions that include some kind of a frontal service to clients, yet they never expect it either, because they get properly paid by the workplace.
Now, it is not the same for waiters and bartenders. They expect tips. You are a jerk and rude if you don’t tip, and we don’t want you here. Don’t you dare give our business money if you aren’t going to give some of it to us as well.
So why is this so different from the other professions? I would wager the main issue stems from the terrible minimum wages, forcing waiters so look for alternatives. The alternatives ended up being very good for the employers, so they reinforced it and made it the standard. The more they can convince everyone to tip, the more they shift the “pay the worker” part of the business to the client. Suddenly the client is paying for both the service they bought AND the worker. The business is very happy that they get to keep more money to themselves and the responsibility is now the client’s.
It has now became so normalized in USA that people will fight to keep this new normal. Instead people should strive to make those businesses work just like any other business by giving them fair wages.
I basically agree with your point of view, but the fact of the matter is that the way servers are paid is an exception to the rule. It’s unlike other businesses, and even on a federal level the wage laws are different specifically for servers.
It’s an issue that’s a lot more complex to solve than just stiffing your server and saying, “I’ve done my part to fix things!”
Oh, for sure. It’s not something you, I, or just any group of people can change. It needs to change from upside down.
The issue is that changes like that don’t happen unless they are almost forced to by really big groups demanding it.
I think I’m in the smallest minority, but I haven’t tipped in close to a decade. When people ask me why, I answer with the question "when was the last time you tipped your grocer l, fast food window attendant or the person at the hardware store that brought out your 100lbs of lumber? " answer is always never and I say exactly.
Are you going to like sit down restaurants in America though?.. cuz those people make around $3 an hour most places with no benefits. I don’t approve of the system but please don’t go to a fine dining establishment and stiff the waiter. It’s fucked up.
Not American. But even if I were, no I wouldn’t tip. It’s not my responsibility to pay someone’s wage while the business opens up at another 2 locations in my city
They make minimum wage, if you make more than minimum with tips you make $3 or whatever plus your tips, if you don’t get any tips your employer covers the difference.
Minimum wage, which is $7.25/hour, and not even close to the bare minimum to be able to survive, because it hasn’t been raised in nearly 15 years!
Fuck off with that logic. If you go to a nice restaurant in the U.S. and you don’t tip, you’re a fucking scumbag. No doubt.
Nah. If the service is great I’ll give 15% and that’s about it.
If the service is anything less, no tip. Like why would I give extra beyond what my meal costs for no reason?
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15% is low. So, what you’re saying is that you’re always a bad tipper.
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There are tons of factors that can make a good server give bad service. A kitchen that’s lagging behind, for example, is totally out of their control. Another table that demands a lot of attention can also throw off service. You’ve clearly never worked in a restaurant.
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Most people tip because they’re not heartless. I don’t think their reasoning applies to you.
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Minimum wage, which is $7.25/hour, and not even close to the bare minimum to be able to survive, because it hasn’t been raised in nearly 15 years!
This is the real issue and the core of it that needs to be fixed. That is unacceptable. People should pressure for raising the minimum wage to livable terms instead of using roundabout systems that don’t fix the issue and just shifts it around.
Yeah, it’s a huge problem. Yet, here in the U.S., Biden tried to raise the minimum wage to $15/hour when he first got in office and Republicans shot him down. Our problem is that we have an entire political party that is hellbent on harming the average person at every turn, and we have too many uneducated, misinformed people voting for them to do it.
While this is absolutely correct, it should be noted that if you don’t make enough in tips you’re probably going to get fired and replaced, haha
Minimum wage isn’t even close to survivable in most states…
When was the last time you worked and didn’t get paid for it? Why do you feel like you’re justified to come to a person’s place of work and make them be at your beck and call, but you don’t think that these servants deserve their own food or livelihood?
There’s nothing intelligent or admirable about your behavior. Quite the contrary, it’s simply a disgusting lack of respect for other human beings.
So you agree that they should be paid a living wage. I believe the employer should pay them enough, not customer to pay them on top of the already paying for the food.
Yes, I agree with you. They should be able to make a living wage. Unfortunately, when you refuse to tip you don’t hurt the owner. Instead, you hurt the employee.
You do, but if no one would tip owners would compensate the employees because they must make at least minimum wage.
The fact of the matter is that owners get to pay his employees less by having customers pay for it instead. You can call it tips, but what is really is - it’s the money the employer should have gave them.
And then we can stop the entire ritual of shame and guilt where you tip just to not be judged by everyone around you for being “cheap”, even though you paid for the costs of the food you ordered.
Yes, it’s the money that the owner should have given them, but you’re not solving the problem by stiffing your waiter. You’re just going to make things worse for them.
And that’s the issue - the blame is shifted to the customers. Damned if you do (enforce this terrible system), damned if you don’t (make waiters have less money).
The change need to be systematic and from the root. But it will never happen with so many just accepting the system, and so many more defending it so strongly.
It’s really a cultural problem, and there’s no easy solution. I certainly don’t know how to fix it. I think it would require everyone not tipping or every server everywhere demanding a higher wage.
Honestly, I hate tipping as much as the next guy. If I decide to tip someone I should be able to feel good about it, like I’m giving them a bonus, rather than feeling guilt-tripped or obligated to do it.
Unfortunately, the system is just set up in a way that sucks for both customers and employees, and the only way you can eat in a nice restaurant and not be an asshole is by tipping your server.
Boycot the restaurant
Or maybe if everybody stopped tipping and workers went on strike, businesses might actually be forced to pay a living wage instead of telling their employees to beg to get enough money to put food on the table?
Yeah. Punish the people who are living hand to mouth every single day by making them too poor to refuse any work they can get. That oughta teach them not to accept their slave labor. /S
Hand to mouth? lol you haven’t met my ex who was a waitress at a mid level sit down restaurant.
That bitch was competing nicely with me on income back then when I was a junior software developer.
Not everyone working in food service is one day away from a homeless shelter.
And some of them are. It’s dumb to make assumptions about an entire profession whose wages vary greatly from city to city based on one person you knew.
You ever see a person break down crying on the job because they’re not making enough money and don’t know how they’re going to eat? I have, several times.
Yes and if everyone agreed to just stop fighting we’d have world peace but we’re talking about actually achievable goals.
I never implied it was “admirable”. I shouldn’t have to supplement a workers shitty pay, so I don’t. What makes a waiter/waitress more entitled to a tip over someone who stocks shelves at a grocery store or works in the fast food industry? Also I’m not American, shocking I know. If an employer isn’t going to pay their staff a proper wage in your country then that’s between the employer and employee
Ok, so stay out of American restaurants. We don’t want you in them.
Typical American, grouping an entire nation into a personal opinion. Well done.
Do you work for free? What if someone came to the place where you work and demanded that you work for them for free? Because that’s exactly what you’re doing to servers in America if you aren’t tipping them, and I can assure you that no one on the planet wants to work without pay. It is not a personal opinion, it’s an objective fact.
Also, I’d like to point out the hilarious irony of you making a blanket statement about all Americans by claiming that’s what Americans do. The projection is palpable.
I said typical, as in average or stereotype. Was more a jab/joke than anything, but you do you. Again, it’s not my responsibility to make up for shit pay. So instead of being mad at how fundamentally broken the system is, you’re mad at people who don’t tip a very specific industry/job. You’re really something. Well done.
You’re the one who’s convinced himself that he’s justified in forcing people to work without pay, because you’ve decided it shouldn’t be the way it really is. In other words, a real (entitled) goddamn asshole. If there’s a hell, I sincerely hope that you end up in it, being forced to work for free every day for eternity. It’s what you’ve done to others, so you’ve fucking earned it.
It depends on where they’re from though. Outside of America we don’t have such a reliance on tipping
That is true. I’m really only talking about America in this context.
What’s even more fun are the places that ask for a tip… and the tip doesn’t go to the employees.
I assume any “fast casual” tip goes directly to the boss. If you didn’t come to my table and take my order then the little iPad is paying the guy that wasn’t here all day.
