There’s this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you’re a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it’s not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the “if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice” is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.

First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let’s get that out of the way. This isn’t a foot in the door for “trans this really isn’t that” narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.

And yes, there’s plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn’t more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don’t want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.

Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn’t. That’s not fair to you and you’re denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They’re going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: “If you loved me for real this wouldn’t bother you”… that’s not going to convince anyone. They’re either going to leave, or they’ll resent you forever. That’s just how it is. You can be mad at that but that’s about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There’s just no way to win once you’ve gone down that road.

“I want a CIS mate” is not the same as “trans women are not women” - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn’t be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.

The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people’s right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it’s not going to end well for you. All you’re going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don’t want to. And that’s not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don’t imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.

  • @[email protected]
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    81 year ago

    I dunno, dating apps are part of the internet and therefore shouldn’t be taken too seriously. Until you meet up with someone it’s all in your imagination anyway.

  • @[email protected]
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    31 year ago

    Somehow, nobody here is talking about that “cis mate” is accidentally too restrictive, if it’s about genital preference. Saying “I want a cis mate” is going to exclude non-binary people that would actually be perfectly compatible with your genital preference and present close enough to the gender you’re attracted to. Let’s be appropriately specific when talking about this stuff, people

  • Wolfeh
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    521 year ago

    Who, exactly, is saying that having a sexual preference is bigoted? I’ve heard rumors about this argument, but never encountered it in the wild.

    • Sippy Cup
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      221 year ago

      Admittedly it’s been a few years but I had this argument on Reddit and caught a ban from a handful of subs for hate speech for arguing that not wanting a trans partner was not the same thing as being anti trans.

      I don’t remember my exact phrasing, I did then and still do believe that trans rights are human rights, that trans people are in real danger at no fault of their own, and that their healthcare is important and should start early. But that doesn’t mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans, and I think that being trans should be divulged in a relationship, and divulged early.

      That’s a viewpoint that some, and I use the term lightly, radical activists don’t want to hear, and will absolutely accuse you of transphobia. That doesn’t mean it’s common, or that the community at large agrees with it. But there are individuals who espouse that nonsense.

      • @[email protected]
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        91 year ago

        Reddit is full of two things. Bigots of every variety and bots. Don’t take social media of any sort as a reflection of reality, it’s not. So much of it is bots designed to create social division now. Then the bigots come out to reply to the bots.

      • @[email protected]
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        11 year ago

        Serious question - you said “But that doesn’t mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans”

        Why is this? Based on what you said wrote here you seemed to be able to be attracted to them before you know they are trans but the moment you find out that they are trans, you no longer are attracted to them.

        If you reduce someone down to their features and say I can’t date you bc you have XYZ features, but you are perfect in every other way and just what I am looking for in a woman, but I can’t date you bc of that. How is reducing someone to something that is out of their control not phobic?

        My other question is this - post op transwoman, would you still be attracted to her if you knew she had bottom surgery and no longer had a penis?

    • @[email protected]
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      Personally, I have encountered in an odd situation. Gay dating app, trans woman being friendly, so I was friendly back, but told her I wasn’t interested. She went ballistic, saying how I could live the dream, have a straight looking relationship, that surely a masc guy like me wanted that, and that I could still get dick with her, and when I told her that was not what I was looking for, at all, she went into the rant, calling me transphobic and saying that I was discriminating her.

      I just blocked her and I will never be entirely sure if it was a troll or not.

      • @[email protected]
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        131 year ago

        That’s the reverse situation though, isn’t it? You treated her as a woman and said “no thanks, I’m gay” and she responded with “it’s ok, because I have a dick and am basically a man”. Didn’t she just transphobia herself?

    • Funderpants
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      61 year ago

      I keep catching this opinion on “unpopular opinion” groups, and that’s it.

    • @[email protected]
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      151 year ago

      I’m a trans lesbian and it sounds like you spend more time thinking about fucking trans women than I do

  • @[email protected]
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    201 year ago

    I understand the danger of revealing trans status. I also understand that it can be even more dangerous to be discovered as trans after a relationship develops with a partner who is violently transphobic. Back in the 80’s I was in the Navy. One of the guys on my ship was arrested for attempted murder. The woman he was dating didn’t reveal she was trans and he found out when they became intimate. He threw her off a second story balcony after beating her.

    My question is why anyone would want to initiate a relationship with another person unless their prospective partner was accepting of them? I’d at least bring up the subject in an indirect manner to judge their response.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      Same as any communication though I suppose, what if someone violently hates webkinz and their partner has a household of them?

      Its never OK to throw them off a balcony for it, so reasonable precautions must be taken to vet webkinz haters for ones safety, but also it sucks those people exist - so let’s try and put the burden on those bad people, not the already struggling trans people who have enough on their plate (on average of course, every person is different)

      (not implying you disagree with this, just wanted to make it more explicit ig)

  • CarniMoss
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    1 year ago

    I don’t trust the way this question is framed. Yes people have preferences but why do you have to ask other people how to talk to someone like a human being? We are human. You can just have a conversation with us.

    I’ve had girls attracted to me even when knowing my trans status which other people started screaming about saying I must be a girl (I even have facial hair). So the idea that cis hets can’t EVER be attracted to us is a lie.

    Basically I don’t trust anyone else’s opinion on this. We are people. This is not Build-A-Date. Learn to communicate like an adult. Not every trans person has the same set of equipment.

    • Flying Squid
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      71 year ago

      I think what they idea is- and I’m not saying I agree because I’m frankly undecided on this- even if you’re attracted to someone, that doesn’t mean you want a sexual relationship with them and since dating often leads to a sexual relationship, basic details where sex may be involved should be made clear up front on a dating site.

      Again, I’m not saying I agree here. You could easily argue that it’s up to the couple to work that out before they get intimate.

      • CarniMoss
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        21 year ago

        You realize there are plenty of cis people that have fulfilling sexual relationships with trans people right? You realize that not every trans person fucks the same right? You realize we’re as diverse as everyone else right?

        Even if a cis person matches your criteria for a partner, they may not want a sexual relationship with you because you don’t fit their criteria. Does that mean you tricked them and wasted their time by getting to know them like a normal person? Or would people only say that about trans people? 🤔

        • @[email protected]
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          21 year ago

          That is a real good point. The “trick” or “deceive” thing assumes a certain intention that is not there.

        • Flying Squid
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          101 year ago

          I said I didn’t agree twice. How many more times do I have to say it?

          • CarniMoss
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            11 year ago

            You keep framing being trans as a problem. It’s not. Sure people are happy living their lives BUT WHAT IF-

            What if nothing. Move on and talk to someone else.

    • @[email protected]
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      61 year ago

      Exactly and like if youre judging people just on their trans-status isnt a very human design, we get horny at random shit all the time so just do/fuck what makes you happy

      (and like why should it be the issue of the trans person to bear the label, not the person who actually cares about it)

  • @[email protected]
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    51 year ago

    First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women.

    Sweet, then you have no problem and are open to dating anyone in your preferred gender.

    • @[email protected]
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      161 year ago

      No, I am not open to date the vast majority of folks in my preferred gender. Age, language, whether they’re a good person, shared hobbies, shared culture are all factors. Why isn’t cisness a legitimate factor?

      • @[email protected]
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        51 year ago

        It is. You just can’t virtue signal about how everyone is equal while expressing such a preference.

  • Klnsfw 🏳️‍🌈
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    21 year ago

    As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man.

    As a bisexual man, I think it’s biphobic if a man or a woman say they don’t want to date a bisexual man.

    And to be true, I wouldn’t date biphobic people.

    So, yes, it’s more convenient for everybody to clearly say what you’re looking for and not looking for. But it’s still discrimination, especially when it comes from someone in the dominant class (straight, white, able-bodied…)

  • @[email protected]
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    1 year ago

    No one actually does this.

    Do you think trans woman WANT to date someone who isnt into them? No. Stop being cringe.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      You say this but it’s been a problem for myself and friends dating. After talking for a while I find out somehow and then they’re all like “this isn’t how I wanted you to find out!” Uh, how about being honest and upfront and letting me give informed consent?

      • @[email protected]
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        51 year ago

        99% of all trans women will absolutely tell you up front that they are trans bc they aren’t trying to get unalived by someone in a trans panic. Which btw is still a legal defense in over half the states of this country

  • @[email protected]
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    161 year ago

    The one thing that kind of disturbs me about trans relationships when I’ve called it out, is that trans men and trans women don’t feel the need to disclose that they’re trans to their partner, as if it’s not something important that the other person has a right to know.

    Just to be clear, I have nothing against the trans community and I think it’s horrible that they’re being made into scapegoats and getting attacked by right-wing assholes, but at the same time, people have a right to know some things about their partners. I think trans folks have every right to transition into whatever makes them happy. If people are open for that relationship, more power to them, I am happy for you, BUT that’s still a choice that somebody should be allowed to make on their own whether they want to be in that relationship or not with full knowledge of what’s going on. To me, it’s borderline sexual assault if you’ve not disclosed that to a partner, since knowing the truth could potentially have changed their actions, though maybe it’s more something like “sexual fraud”.

    The arguments I’ve gotten against this from some people just don’t hold up, things like, “Well you wouldn’t disclose every dental procedure you’ve had to a partner would you?” No, because nobody gives a shit about how many crowns you have when they’re trying to have sex with you, that’s irrelevant to the situation. Whereas, “this person biologically started as the opposite sex and they’ve made a transition”, is kind of a big deal for some people and could be a deal breaker. Whether you think that judgement is bigoted doesn’t matter, that’s a boundary that they’ve set for themselves and should still be respected. Them declining is probably helping you dodge a bullet, since them finding out after the fact is WAAAY more likely to go south pretty quick.

    • @[email protected]
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      131 year ago

      I don’t disagree with any of the content of what you said, but I’ve never met a trans person who defaulted to nondisclosure. And doing that is a very unsafe move for any trans person.

      There is the typical “I’m gonna at least see if there’s some genuine interest here before I decide if it’s worth it to have this conversation,” but I’ve never met anyone who would forgo that up to and after sex. I don’t think this is common at all.

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        What is common is the stupid meme joke of “I went to fuck this chick and when she took off her clothes she had a DICK”. It doesn’t matter if it actually happens or not, cis people are often obsessed with being scared by the thought and it’s just pathetic honestly.

        Nevermind that yes, given how close minded most cis people are, doing this would be as you say a very unsafe thing to do (both physically and emotionally) or that it doesn’t really make sense to just hope that a random cis person isn’t going to react negatively (especially because cis people just can’t stop telling and re-telling this kind of insecurity disguised as a joke). Also if you are having sex with someone you know so little about that this comes as a surprise to you… I kind of feel like maybe you shouldn’t be complaining about being surprised by details of a partner when you didn’t bother to find out anything important about them at all before you decided to have sex with them?? Sure having a penis or not doesn’t really define who you are in any meaningful sense (that isn’t imposed by society) but if you get to the point that you are going to be intimate with someone I just really am having a hard time fathoming why this wouldn’t have already come up?

        Ok maybe the trans person really has fallen for you and is in denial about how close minded you are… but even in that case (which feels more like a hypothetical than an actual common scenario) acting like this is some nefarious or mean act is ridiculous. The cis person just has to see a dick for a brief second, it is no different than going to the gym locker room for fucks sake, for the trans person now they have to deal with the emotional intensity of being instantaneously and aggressively rejected by a partner they thought was in to them and unfortunately might physically be in danger from violence now. How does this make any sense at all? It is a waste of breathe to talk about this shit all it does is force the spotlight on feeling bad for how fragile cis men’s identities are given their insecurities while ignoring the very real physical and emotional violence enacted upon trans and queer people every single moment upon this earth.

        The only other lame insecurity that disguises itself as a joke among cis people that can give this one a run for its money is cis-men’s fear of their own butt and what might happen if they realized it felt good to have something up there.

  • Chaos
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    261 year ago

    I hope this isn’t actually an unpopular opinion. People objectively have a type of what they do and don’t want. Specification is a good thing and will help people find their match faster. The last thing a person, either trans or not trans would want, is to spend time with someone who will never work for them.

  • @[email protected]
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    411 year ago

    Am I weird in that I think it’s weird to announce that kind of thing on a dating profile? Like, I’m on all the dating apps and people generally don’t get access to me until there’s a mutual agreement to match, right? Unless you’re swiping on everyone or they’re actively trying to hide it, are you matching with a lot of trans folk? Are you so inundated by these matches that you feel the need to announce these preferences up front? I can’t imagine it’s so many that you can’t just have a polite conversation when it comes up and explain the preference? It’s the whole need to announce it, knowing how it could come off, that makes people question the intent. If you were at the bar and someone you’re attracted to comes up to talk, do you stop them and say “before you go any further, know that I only date cis people.”?

    • @[email protected]OP
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      221 year ago

      Many of your points here are spot on. There’s not a lot of trans people as a percentage of the populace. Maybe like 2-3% tops, so you’re right, you’re not going to run into hordes of trans people while swiping. And many of those do NOT want to hide who they are short term and are loathe to just up and hide it from a date long term. Let’s make it clear there’s no movement to trick people into dating trans people, to *further *derail any right wingers reading this to get their rageohol fix.

      You are also right about the etiquette of it all. Tact and timing are important. “Before you go any further I only date cis people” is idiocy. But the fact is a lot of people do not want to date trans people and that’s their right. We have to come to a happy medium where we respect that but (to address your legit and underlying concern) don’t also let this “trans people are everywhere looking to trick us into dating them OMFG RUNNNNN!!” hysteria genie out of the bottle. I am definitely NOT here to foment that.

      • @[email protected]
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        41 year ago

        I’m here reading comments just to get a better understanding of a topic I’ve never really thought much about (haven’t been in the dating world for a long while) but I just had to stop and comment, I’m loving the positive and constructive discussion there is here.

  • credit crazy
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    101 year ago

    Personally I agree. Personally one of the biggest factors that makes me want to get into a relationship in the first place is more or less to make a kid. Sure adoptions are a thing but like I just don’t see myself getting turned on by sex with someone who doesn’t have a vagina. The most I can see her doing for me is a hand job. Shallow yea but that’s just kinda biology. I can’t see anyone making me enjoy a trans woman anymore than you can make a gay dude enjoy a cis woman. And all that’s not even mentioning I live in a place where parents still pressure their children to make grandkids.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      61 year ago

      A transwoman has a vagina post-op. But again this part is irrelevant IMHO. Freedom to choose is sancrosanct. If you date a transwoman it should also be with zero consequence.

      • Captain Howdy
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        1 year ago

        You’re correct, dating the type of person you actually want to date should come with no consequences or judgement.

        Some people might prefer an uncircumcised penis or natural breasts, some people might be indifferent, and some people might prefer breast implants or a circumcised penis. It’s no one’s business what someone prefers and no one should feel bad for having a preference.

        It’s kind of a crazy thought that you would judge someone who is turned off by breast implants for not dating a woman with breast implants. I feel the same logic can be (and for the most part is) applied to preferences or indifference for post-op genitals.

        There are definitely a vocal minority who would say that having a preference for cis partners is transphobic, but I doubt most people, even most trans people, would consider you bigoted for having that preference.

        EDIT: I doubt you’re encountering enough trans matches to need to put your preference in your profile.

      • @[email protected]
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        41 year ago

        Forgive me, but I’d say a vagina, or lack thereof, is pretty damned important to most of us.

        If a woman started out with a penis? Meh, I might go for that. But I certainly want to engage in “normal” sex, and there’s nothing wrong with that. And I’d think you agree.

  • Cyv_
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    I’m trans. I think the reason people get upset is because of the reason behind the preference. That reason can be totally valid, to totally shitty, and people assume either the best or the worst depending on their perspective usually. A trans person seeing this might assume “oh boy another transphobe” while a cis person would think “yep and I won’t date a person who owns cats because I’m deadly allergic” and carry on.

    On top of that a blanket “I won’t date trans people” rule tends to ignore “outliers” like nonbinary, intersex, or gender fluid people, which can feel pretty bad when the underlying reason doesn’t fit the actual real life scenario you might be in.

    Here’s a few reasons behind the preference that I can think of:

    • I’m straight and want bio kids - Fair enough, either your partner is cis or they aren’t compatible for that goal, or you’re getting into the nonbinary grey area.

    • I don’t want to deal with the extra baggage, potential judgement from peers, or mental/physical health comorbidities that come with transition - kinda bleh but its your choice and only you can really decide what you’re willing to invite on yourself, but it feels crappy for trans people who definitely didn’t ask to be trans either.

    • I’m attracted to specific genital configurations - that’s your preference, but it sort of ignores any post op trans people, which feels really shitty if as a trans person you’ve done this major surgery to be happier and more yourself, and people just assume you haven’t, and won’t talk to or engage with you over something you already changed, through a very intensive and difficult process. Overall though genital preferences are perfectly fine, people just don’t like saying “I only like penis” because it sounds weird, so they substitute “I only like cis men” thinking that’s a less awkward alternative.

    • I don’t think trans people are who they identify as - real shit and the kind of people most are actually mad at when people day "I won’t date trans people.

    Anyways, I’m sure there are more, but the point I’m trying to make is, saying you won’t date trans people is just kinda vague. Many people will assume the worst, which is on them, but it would help to clarify and be clear about what your real preference is, or why you have it. For instance “I want to have bio kids someday, so if we aren’t compatible on that level then that is a dealbreaker” or “I’m straight and I’m only interested in Cis or post op trans women” which with a couple extra words clearly portrays that its a genital preference without explicitly saying it.

    TLDR: having preferences is perfectly fine but when people judge you it’s because it isn’t clear why you have that preference, and usually ignores outliers. Clarification, while maybe a bit longer or more complicated, would eliminate the anger in most cases. The people who still get upset are likely to be angry no matter what.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      121 year ago

      Thank you for this response. I can totally understand your points. The true transphobes out there have given a bad name for anyone who only dates CIS people.

      Rather than pushing to have people explain why they prefer CIS only to show they’re not transphobes, I would propose a compromise: these same people should not be questioned about their preferences but they also should not offended by trans people or those who date them. Help make a society where trans people aren’t second class citizens. Though some people will say “only dating CIS people makes trans people second class citizens no matter the reason” and I really can’t hope to satisfy them. I think we go down a dangerous road if we start demanding why someone doesn’t want to date someone else and they haven’t given off OTHER bigoted vibes.

      I don’t think there’s a solution that is going to make everyone happy but I’m willing to join the dialog (in good faith) to keep tinkering until we find the best one that respects everyone’s freedom of choice.

      • Cyv_
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        61 year ago

        Oh yeah, the assumption of bad intentions is not a good thing either, I generally try to assume the best of people when other signs of ill intent are missing, so I totally get it. I just point out the clarification aspect for if you want to head off the more defensive folks at the pass is all.

    • @[email protected]
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      51 year ago

      Not looking for a partner anymore anyway, but the first one is my only reason. If we got to a point medically/scientifically where bio kids were possible then that sole reason would go away.

      I’m fine ending up with no kids because I and/or my partner are infertile and we don’t know yet, but I’m not fine starting a relationship wanting something that the other person knows I can’t have with them and not telling me until later.

      Honestly I think it would be helpful if the dating apps just had some hidden questions like “are you interested in having kids?” and if yes also asked “do you want biological kids?” and if you answer them your potential matches are automatically filtered down. I have two rationales for this, 1. because it frees up space in bio and keeps your preferences semi-private, and 2. it avoids potentially awkward conversations or other potentially awkward public judgemental. (I’m guessing there aren’t already questions like this.)

    • @[email protected]
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      121 year ago

      The main problem with this is: Nobody should have to justify or explain anything.

      The oddest thing about this whole post is that people who may or may not have been in a group that was attacked or judged over who they are are… attacking and judging people over who they are. It makes no sense to me.

      • @[email protected]OP
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        51 year ago

        Trans people are marginalized af. Speaking as a black man, I am familiar with how that works. They’re scared and they see where the roots of murdering trans people come from. It comes from people who say “Ewwww trans”. Our society shames people who date trans people.

        Remember that Married With Children episode where Bud Bundy dated a woman who mentioned him as her love and then came out on TV as trans and it destroyed him emotionally, and it was implied his almost non-existent social standing was put out of its misery for good by that incident? That’s Truth in Television. Also see that quote/insult in the movie Aliens: “oh but the one you had was male!” (implying genderfluid/trans/etc). That’s our real life society right now.

        When a trans person attacks and judges someone over who they refuse to date, that’s a reaction to being oppressed. It’s wrong, it’s ironic, but the fear behind it is justified. Calling out and fighting this ironic hypocrisy cannot stand alone, it must be accompanied by a validation and understanding of their fear, which is legitimate, and an increased effort to stop the hate that is fueling their fear. We’ve seen what happens over and over again when we fail to pair the two together: the legitimately aggrieved group (and more than one group does this) starts saying “we’re laughing at you as a class and you’re afraid of being a target of that, but we’re afraid of you killing us” and dialog aimed at achieving meaningful progress toward equality takes a big fat hit due to the unnecessary antagonism.

    • @[email protected]
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      Bullet 3: a post op vagina isn’t a vagina. It could be great, very satisfying, convincing, whatever,… but it potentially isn’t the exact biological “thing” you are seeking.

      I’m not discrediting people who have taken a step to align themselves, or judging, but a surgery result simply isn’t a birth result.

      Is this logically consistent? I’m not trying to cut down, but it could be possible that “the right shape” isn’t enough to qualify someone’s “attracted to specific genital configuration”