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Wow, imagine using a corporate owned operating system.
Laughs in Ubuntu
Wait… canonical?
Best Canon event ever. Using Ubuntu to escape macroshit’s garbage
Haha probably so. But they are a corporation
laughs in another corporate OS?
You misspelled Fedora
You misspelled Arch.
You misspelled SteamOS
Wouldn’t it be nice if you could just keep using Windows 10 forever, and get security updates for free?
7 was better lol
For reference: Debian 6 which was the current release of Debian at the time Windows 10 was released hasn’t received official security patches 2016, CentOS 6.6 stopped receiving them 2022. Mac OS X Yosemite latest update was released 2017…
the cool thing about debian though, you can just reinstall that shit. Or if you like flying close to the sun. Just change your apt sources. And hope nothing explodes.
deleted by creator
My vps was two Debian versions late and both upgrade went super smooth. Did it fromy damn phone even.
i imagine it’s a bit of gamble sometimes, depends on how much software was deprecated changed or moved around, a lot can happen in a support period. Regardless spinning up a new install in an automated manner should be relatively trivial, and probably something anyone can accomplish for backup purposes.
Yeah and? Debian is free, you can just upgrade to the newer version without paying a thing.
It seems worthwhile to set realistic expectations.
And upgrades tend to be pretty stable. You can still use whatever UX you were used to before, since packages tend to stick around quite a bit.
The issue with Win 11 is that it drastically changes hardware requirements and UX. That’s not an issue for Debian.
And because linux is 99% just the programs you install on it when you do upgrade to a new version you aren’t being forced into a new system. This is why distro wars are pointless.
You can also upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 for free.
I cannot use my win11 laptop because they removed the language bar and switching keyboard layout is impossible. Unfortunately it’s something that I do on the regular since programming in my native layout is really difficult hunting down alt+some numbers for the {} and I need letters with accents like žšć when I write something
No, actually, extra ads begging me to subscribe to my own computer are a cost.
downgrade*
would you like to explain to me how i install a tpm 2.0 module into my hardware for free exactly?
windows 10 was meant to be the last version of windows, its a bit disingenuous to compare the two that way
Ughh i hate reading this hoax. W10 was never the last version of windows. It’s a paraphrased report of one engineer at Microsoft that said that, but it was never in any official capacity confirmed
The Verge asked a rep at Microsoft, and this is what they said:
When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon’s comments, the company didn’t dismiss them at all. “Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
So they didn’t rule out branding changes, but the changes to Win 11 seem like a pretty big change from Win 10, which seems to go against the “Windows will be delivered as a service” statement. So it’s not just that one engineer, but probably a broader push (that may have been delayed or scrapped) to push gradual updates consistently instead of larger, periodic updates. I’m no expert, but I didn’t really see much difference in how Win 10 was released vs previous versions (e.g. XP, 7, and 10 all had service packs).
frankly as long as my windows 10 license is valid in windows 11, i couldn’t care less.
But you still wouldn’t find me using windows 11.
Wasn’t the entire point of not using “Windows 9” branding and instead going straight to “Windows 10” from 8 that they didn’t want the last version of Windows to be 9, that they preferred a nice round number.
No. The point was they didn’t want issues from badly written software that used a “windows 9*” string to check for 95/98
nope. 9 is just an unlucky number and lower than competing OS at the time
well the way they stopped making new windows versions after 10 (until now) seems to indicate that was the plan
W11 released like any other lifecycle, huff copium dude
no, i mean i believed that was the plan because they released a new version every 3 years, and then stopped for 10 years
Hahahahahaha, and you believe this?
It’s comparing apples to oranges, that said, the current version of Debian is much closer to the UX of Debian 6 than windows 11 is to windows 10
If the point of windows is you’re paying for an operating system and should then have better support than a free alternative, they should be able to push security updates, especially if they’re already committed to ensuring old windows app can still run inside new windows
Mac OS is Apple to oranges against windows when it comes to OS support?
Conveniently skipped that part and focused on Debian…
No, it’s not apples to oranges because Mac and windows are both paid support.
If you want to compare apples to apples, then sure, Mac is better than windows. That’s a low bar to beat though. I was comparing apples to oranges, which was a comparison in paid vs free support.
But yes, macs desktop environment and user experience hasn’t taken half as much of a dump as windows. But they’re also based on Linux, and don’t have to make the same commitments windows does
macOS is not based on Linux, it’s based on FreeBSD (and other BSD) userspace and the Mach kernel. AFAIK, there isn’t any Linux code there.
They did provide security updates for several years longer than any competitor. Even (or especially depending on your point of view) for a company like Microsoft a user shouldn’t expect updates indefinitely at least not for the normal retail price.
And to be clear: I also don’t want to blame any of the named Linux distros. I recently migrated an old CentOS 6 server and it was about time. Sure there were still some security updates but several software components hadn’t received updates for years and there were a lot of workarounds necessary to keep the thing in a somewhat decent and modern state.
Windows 10 was released on July 29, 2015, Debian 8 was released on 26 April 2015, 3 months earlier. And you are comparing it with Debian 6, released 4 years earlier? Debian 8 extended long term support reaches end-of-life 30 June 2025.
You are right. I misinterpreted the information on wiki page. Debian 8’s free LTS tier ended 2020 and the Extended LTS continues until 2025. Extended support is a paid service though and costs a lot more than a single Windows license. Microsoft offers a similar (also paid) service.
I do have 3 of it 😁
So, wait, Mocrosoft is finally giving us a way to fully-disable automatic Windows Updates?
/s
That’s how I read it!
Mocrosoft
Do you speak Russian? Cause the first part sounds like “wet” with o and the second as if related to sticking something somewhere.
Or the more simple explanation: o is right next to i on most keyboards.
I know, just had all those associations with мелкосовт и мокросовт .
Why are people still using Windows? Seems to me that the pain to use it is still not big enough. I welcome every move that increases the pain and drives people to better options.
Because Revit and OpenRoads designer doesn’t work on Linux. And neither of my RMMs work for Linux.
As I tell everyone who comes up with this kind of takes. This is not Linux’s fault or responsibility. This is the specific app developer’s fault.
No one screams at Google because iMessage doesn’t run on Android, that would be madness. For every software package or app that doesn’t run on Linux, there’s usually several dozen alternatives that do. If you don’t like them and want to stick with the ones you like and also try to use Linux? the move is to call out the app developers. Tell them that you want Linux support, a Linux build and to please work on that.
There’s zero, absolutely nothing, nothing at all, that the developers of a OS kernel, or the maintainers of a distribution can do to force other’s app to support the OS they work on.
The most we can do is offer compatibility layers like Wine that can run some Windows only software. And they can go pretty far, like Proton, which can run most games. But still there’s only so much these can do. The tooling, build libraries, compilation chain, everything that exist to make an app for Windows has its counterparts for Linux. It usually only takes a couple of afternoons tinkering with config files to get a project to compile for Linux. With almost no change to the code base itself. The community usually does the bulk of the distribution part, making Flatpaks, or setting up the package for the repositories. Even then, making a RPM or DEB file is also a no-brainer. So, if your favorite app doesn’t exist in Linux, it is because the developer either made the conscious decision of not supporting, or no one has ever told them that they want one, so they haven’t considered it. Sometimes they deliberately make their app impossible to function on Linux, it happens, they have explicit code in their software that detects things like Wine to sabotage the OS.
The move is to write to your favorite app’s developers, complaining on social media does nothing, we literally can’t do anything for you.
Obviously. I’m just pointing out the issues with those kind of smoothbrained, “everyone should use Linux because I said so and the whole world is black and white”, kind of takes I see all the time on this site.
I wonder why you are being downvoted, it’s literally how this works.
There is no substitute for Revit on Linux. Autodesk won’t even bring it to MacOS, which is what many architects prefer. People have been asking them for years to develop for other operating systems and they don’t give a shit. The person you responded to wasn’t blaming anyone for autodesk not supporting Linux. They were answering the question of why they still use it. I use Revit every day for work and I would wipe windows from my work pc in a second if there were an alternative. I’m working on a $300m project right now where it specifically states in the contract that we must use Revit so until autodesk decides to support it or goes fully browser based, we are screwed.
That still doesn’t stop you from using Linux or macos on your private devices. I’m also forced to use awful software at work but that’s I call a fraction of my salary pain money (Schmerzensgeld). That’s fine. If it is enough I’m willing to deal with Microsoft, Autodesk and the like. But in my personal life. I have the choice and I would never use it if I don’t like it.
This, 100%. Autodesk has full industries by the balls and just laughing their way to the bank.
Zero fucks for their user base and bloated buggy software. We would ditch them in an instant if AutoCAD wasn’t required for prints.
You can still dual boot or use virtual machines in your private devices. It’s the usual workaround for people who are forced to use one particular incompatible app. That fact is literally not what’s stopping you from using Linux. It’s only stopping from using Revit on Linux, but again, that’s not on Linux, there’s nothing any of us can do, take your grievances with Autodesk. This fact doesn’t forbids you nor does it prevent you from using Linux for everything else.
I use Linux for everything else. The question was “Why do you still use windows?” The answer is because autodesk has no support for Linux. I never blamed Linux for this and your entire post feels like you are responding to a made up position.
Doesn’t change that it’s not supported by Autodesk.
And? If it works it works, who cares if it’s officially supported or not. A large amount of stuff on Linux is only supported by the community as is. Makes no difference. All it really changes is who you report bugs to depending, e.g. The Revit-for-Linux repo, WINEHQ, then Revit.
My licensing agreement at my 1,000 person firm cares if it’s officially supported or not.
Sounds like a them problem.
My job includes programming devices from manufacturers that only write their software for Windows. There are entire industries that are blind to anything but Windows due to lock-in from one or more manufacturers of devices needed for daily operations.
Some consumer products are similarly locked-in due to supporting software. There may be alternatives for common tools, but device-specific things simply won’t work on Linux, 90% of the time. Sure, we can request the manufacturer support Linux in some way, but good luck getting any response let alone a working port.
Edit: Yes, it may be becoming more painful to use Windows, but until it’s less painful to take the Linux path for viable alternatives, nothing will change.
The Linux or macos path, if there is one is always less painful.
If there isn’t one, if the a manufacturer doesn’t support other os’ then you should demand this support from them. They will only listen to money. So take your money to an alternative or offer money for the support.
The point is that it’s not Linux’ fault that program x is not natively supported on Linux. It’s the programs fault and partly yours/your employers for choosing it.
No one has said it’s Linux’s fault… But unfortunately it’s still an issue Linux users have to deal with.
Also, not everyone is the CTO of their company to demand other suppliers. Most people are stuck with company policy that they have absolutely no say in it. Companies are not democracies.
Imagine not being able to upgrade your Linux because you have modified YOUR system to suit YOUR needs. Fuck them…
But if those modifications were known to cause the system to brick after you update, wouldn’t it be really nice if it stopped you from doing it?
And not just “yeah we know having done x will cause a bootloop after update, if you don’t know to uninstall/fix it it first, too bad.”idk maybe if you can detec the specific issue, you should maybe like, tell the user.
Linux devs would just make a patch to work with that configuration as it’d be considered a bug.
How would that patch be distributed?
Lets take VLC from this Windows example, the one that blocks windows updates is a really old version of it. If you have that, you need to either uninstall VLC or remove it to get Win 11 to update.
If there was a bug where having a really old version of VLC on your system would somehow break if you updated the kernel, would a complicated workaround patch be integrated into the kernel just in case for forever?
Or would the patch work exactly the same way as windows, where it would check for that version of VLC and tell you to remove or update it first?I see you’re unaware of the number one rule of the Linux Kernel : DO NOT BREAK USER SPACE
The patch would be distributed the exact same way that we distribute every single other patch in Linux.the exact same way that we distribute every single other patch in Linux.
Which is?
I see you’re unaware of the number one rule of the Linux Kernel : DO NOT BREAK USER SPACE
For sure, my linux experience is limited to playing around with raspis and the Steam Deck, and running apt-get update / upgrade and accepting everything at once. I haven’t actually even had a need to refuse updating something individually so I have no idea what the protocol is if I wouldn’t want to update some application. What I do know is that basically every single linux application has dependencies and if you don’t install, update or remove exactly what that application demands you to do, most of them refuse to install or update themselves - blocking updating because you have or don’t have something else on your system seems to be basically the norm with Linux.
Which is?
Directly patching the code, then letting the distros do their thing.
I have no idea what the protocol is if I wouldn’t want to update some application.
You’d just put it in an exclude list in your specific package managers config file for example. The depends are forward compatible and will just keep updating as normal. Very very rarely is there ever a case where forward compatibility is broken, and if it ever is the devs did so for a very thought out reason.
blocking updating because you have or don’t have something else on your system seems to be basically the norm with Linux.
It is yes. Because if you don’t have a library an application depends on then it just won’t run.
Except “have”, that’s not a real scenario; it’s always a matter of not having something; there’s packages that may conflict because they provide a different implementation of the same interface, but you’ll never be blocked by an application that depends on that interface.
The dependencies are defined by the distro maintainers when they packaged the software.
It ensures that package will function properly when installed.If you really really want a really really old version of something that depends on deprecated dependencies/libs, there’s always portable and universal package solutions that include those specific deps with it instead of relying on system libs.
blocking updating because you have or don’t have something else on your system seems to be basically the norm with Linux.
i mean yeah, when it does happen that’s the correct failstate. The difference here is that it’s trivial to troubleshoot and maintain. The chance that this happens is very low, unless somebody is rearranging packages in your repo. In which case that’s an easy enough fix, and usually already scripted for. Something to do with AUR, which doesn’t touch pacman. Or some hilariously convoluted piece of software kerfuckery.
Usually, it’s handled remarkably gracefully.
Usually it’ll be available as a flatpak or something, which is a special container that can have outdated dependencies and whatnot without impacting the rest of the system.
So if you really need some old version of VLC or something, just wrap it in a container and upgrade away! The upgrade would remove any incompatible apps (not containerized apps, just the system installed apps) and it would be on you to create or install that package if you haven’t already (almost everything old I’ve needed is already available).
So go ahead and use the VLC initial release from 2001 or whatever, you might need to do some archeology to get the right versions of dependencies though.
I mean, if you’ve done something affecting upgrade paths - possible.
Also I broke a FreeBSD ufs partition once while upgrading OpenBSD. I thought I’m very smart having that added into disklabel, and it would successfully mount read-only. Well, there were some actions to upgrade OpenBSD’s own ufs partitions, so - I don’t really remember whether I could restore any data, TBF. I think I could still mount that read-only from OpenBSD, but not from FreeBSD.
But that’s about things being really broken.
I broke Arch when they switched to Systemd (the process that launches all other processes), and that’s because I was an idiot and partially applied the fixes without rebooting, so things got borked. I could’ve fixed it, but reinstalling was faster (like 30 min, and I kept my files; fixing could’ve taken a couple hours).
Other than that, I’ve had a couple drivers get misconfigured or something when upgrading Ubuntu or Fedora (I’ve had wifi and sound fixes not apply to an upgraded version), but I’ve never had an upgrade actually fail, and fixing it usually only took an hour or so to find someone online who has already provided the config options needed.
So yeah, I’ve had nothing like this on Linux in the 15 or so years I’ve used it, everything so far has been fixable with relatively minimal effort. Then again, I don’t use any fancy licensed software, so I haven’t needed to pull an old version of something along across multiple releases (almost got a Scrivener license, which no longer supports Linux).
WUMT was good to me.
I feel bad for Windows users, they just can’t catch a break can they?
It was already bad enough that we’re stuck trying to use a trash OS to run our games and soul-sucking corporate crap, but now we have to ditch our customization tools to get updates that we need?
Thank goodness I mostly just use Linux.
If only others had access to Linux, I really feel bad for them. :)
Havent updated my v10 for 3+ years and dont plan to
Can’t you disable SmartSense or whatever bullshit there is that scans
appsprograms when they’re installed?Probably but they certainly don’t want you to know that and almost certainly will say that you can’t.
What apps and links please? Just so I know what not to download.
::: (Yes I know its in the article…) :::
ConisioAdmin.exe (Solidworks PDM) EaseUS Disk Copy.exe (EaseUS Disk Copy Application) ep_dwm.exe (ExplorerPatcher) Included since 22H2 iCloudServices.exe (iCloud files shared in Explorer via WhatsApp) from 23H2 RadeonSoftware.exe (AMD GPU perf settings) from23H2 StartAllBackCfg.exe (StartAllBack) Included since 22H2 Multi-mon + Copilot (Microsoft) MergeSdb (Microsoft) Intel IntcOED.sys (Intel) Intel IntcAudioBus.sys (Intel) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\IntcAudioBus.sys) Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter (Realtek) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\RTL8192su.sys)Huh, I didnt expect to see Intel or Realtek stuff in there.
The iCloud one is funny and oddly specific. Its like a “fuck you for using both Apple and Facebook crap”
I’m just surprised their blocking their own software.
This stops Windows 11 from blocking the installation and lets you get the app back onto your PC. We’re not sure if Microsoft has fixed this trick, but it’s worth a shot if you want to keep using your favorite apps.
That’s mildly distopian.
This prevents your car from shutting itself off when trying visit certain areas on the map. We’re not sure if car manufacturers have fixed this trick, but it’s worth a shot if you want to keep going to your favorite places.
And only a little tiny bit adversarial.
This is what ive been saying about windows vs Linux for years.
Linux isnt necessarily easy, but its collaborative and everybody’s on the same side.
Windows is PvP, and now I’m seeing fucking Hangul characters in chat, and I’m afraid. I don’t even use it anymore.
Hangul characters in chat
You’re afraid of Korean speakers?
In a cafe? No. In a video game lobby? I played way too much StarCraft.
Lol. :)
My wife is Korean and I noped out of playing StarCraft when I visited her family. I also worked with a “minor-league” StarCraft player (played on Euro servers with a team) and a regular Korean guy, and it was always close when we’d do lan games at work afterhours (us normies would die off early and watch as those two duked it out).
So yeah, I get it. Koreans are hardcore…
Glad they have time to call out everyone else’s problems, yet Microsoft still can’t fix their broken jan win 10 update.
don’t worry, microsoft never figured out how to write bootloader installation software.
It can not only, install itself onto a slower, hdd, but also completely wipe any additional drives you have hooked up at the time of installation.
The fact that this STILL isn’t fixed is baffling to me.
Is this still an issue with UEFI nowadays? The other bootloader should still be selectable in the bootmenu if it wasn’t overwritten.
well you see that’s the problem, windows doesn’t believe in this cute little thing called following standard, so sometimes it just fucking yeets that shit, taking the bootloader with it, because keep in mind, when you dual boot on the same drive. You usually end up using grub to dualboot between linux and windows, which windows doesn’t like.
And as for installs, some updates are basically installs, so who knows what the fuck kinda bullshit windows will be doing then. And like i said, if you ever do a clean install on a system with other disks, you better hope you get lucky.
Is that the one where MS updated the recovery partition by including a file that’s too big for that default partition? I had to manually resize my recovery partition to fix that issue
Yes. Normally, the OS “fixes” this by making a second, bigger recovery partition, but that only works if you have the space for it.
Well I guess 60 GB wasn’t enough space for the 10mb update
probably requires you to have un-allocated space on the drive, which is even funnier.
Excuse me what
It looks like they break Microsoft’s update mechanism somehow, and Microsoft won’t work around it. If it’s because they’d have to make special cases just for one app I get it, but it doesn’t seem like that’s what’s happening.
Large companies do not shy away from making workaround for specific apps. Every large platform that I know of has some form of app specific workarounds to fix problems with popular apps. Graphics drivers, browsers, iOS, Android. I haven’t heard any stories about windows but given their commitment to backwards compatibility, they must have
they break Microsoft’s update mechanism somehow
Microsoft’s update mechanism breaks Microsoft’s update mechanism.
Microsoft’s update mechanism is just fucking awful trash, they should replace it with downloading an archive and unpacking it.
They seem to think they are very smart with all those binary deltas, but it appears to be so complex that nobody inside that company understands it fully, and that’s for more than 10 years.
Apparently people responsible for creating it still work there in important places, can’t find another explanation.
They probably failed upwards
There were so many times that updating Win7 was a nightmare. I used to do plenty of fresh installs on various PCs and I would have to wait a day or sometimes more to get the OS up to date. I would have thought we moved past this by now.
Definitely not. Sometimes you even have to install additional bloatware like “HP support assistant” for example to complete the update process because the built-in update system is dysfunctional af.
Yup or Dell SupportAssist, or Lenovo System Update, etc
But really, there’s Microsoft apps in that list.
Hmm… I’ll have to look for these applications. Some of them seem ubiquitous.
Well, I have two of those. I guess I’ll just go fuck myself than, huh?
DeskModder noted that it wasn’t as simple as blocking an app based entirely on its name; for example, while VLC is listed in the big list of services and apps that are disallowed, it’s specifically listing a Windows 7 version of VLC.
Sounds like Windows has a problem with really old versions only. I guess you should be fine as long as you keep your apps relatively fresh.
People don’t read articles and you are asking them to keep their apps fresh? Just let them fuck themselves
Rule 1 in Reddit: never read the article
Rule 2: react to the headline
Since we’re on Lemmy, I thought I might get away with breaking the rules.
