Fellow selfhoster, do you encrypt your drives where you put data to avoid privacy problems in case of theft? If yes, how? How much does that impact performances? I selfhost (amongst other services) NextCloud where I keep my pictures, medical staff, …in short, private stuff and I know that it’s pretty difficult that a thief would steal my server, buuut, you never know! 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, all, no matter what data is, it’s not hard and doesn’t have any consequences, but protects from many inconvenient accidents
Anyone who says yes is either a professional in a field already requiring it (is aware of how to do it and what it means), retired (has unlimited time to tinker), or is Edward Snowden. For the average person, you don’t need to encrypt your disks.
Well, since I’ve discovered that with AES-NI it doesn’t impact performances, I don’t see why not do it. I’ve had a look at a couple of guides and it doesn’t seem to be so difficult
I encrypt devices that are portable. If someone raids my house I have bigger fish to fry.
If someone raids my house I have bigger fish to fry. Sure, but if it’s “free”, why not do it? My main worry was about performances, but since I’ve read that with AES-NI it doesn’t impact that much and since it seems not to be that complicated (let’s hope! 😁).
I used to until I realized that I’ve got bigger threats to worry about.
And like someone else mentioned, if I have to do data recovery for some unknown reason I want to make sure the data’s not encrypted.
Why? If you store the key in your password manager shouldn’t be a problem to mount the drive on another PC, decrypt it and save data. Or am I missing something?
Recovering data from a corrupted, encrypted drive is way trickier than from a simply corrupted drive, I imagine.
Why? What would be the problem?
P.s. Why did you link to the Anti Commercial-AI license?
The way you recover data from a totally dead drive is use a program that scans every byte and looks for structures in the data that look like files e.g. a jpeg will have a header followed by some blocks of content. In an encrypted drive everything looks like random data.
Even if you have the key, you can’t begin searching through the data until it’s decrypted, and the kind of error that makes it so your drive won’t mount normally is likely to get in the way of decrypting normally as well.
Why? What would be the problem?
On linux, you’re probably using LUKS. That has a header with the keys at the beginning of each encrypted volume. If those keys (or key if you only have one) is corrupted and you don’t have a backup of that, you’re fucked.
The next problem is that data recovery tools mostly don’t support decryption. They scan regions or the entire drive for recognizable things like partition headers, partition tables, file types, etc. if those are encrypted, well…
If you are able to decrypt a partition, then it might work as it will show up like any other device in
/dev/mapper/and you could dorecovery /dev/mapper/HDD. However, I have no idea what data corruption does to encryption algorithms. If one part of what is being decrypted is faulty, what does that do to the entire thing?
This mostly comes from a lack of knowledge on my part. IIRC encryption depends on hashsums -> if you change what’s being decrypted/encrypted, the entire hashsum is incorrect and thus all the data shouldn’t be able to be decrypted. But I might be wrong - I’ll gladly be wrong on this.On linux, you’re probably using LUKS. That has a header with the keys at the beginning of each encrypted volume. If those keys (or key if you only have one) is corrupted and you don’t have a backup of that, you’re fucked.
I got it, thanks! I will rely on SnapRaid form redundancy and on backups on multiple devices/locations.
I did have LUKS and a USB flash drive with a key to be inserted on boot. It was definitely difficult and caused performance issues. It was particularly difficult to add/remove drives from the array. These days I only encrypt my off-site backups that sit at the office where my coworkers potentially have physical access.
There have been recent advancements in TPM so disk encryption is easier to maintain and doesn’t affect performance. I’ll need to investigate this one day. My server/NAS is a 4th-gen i5, so it may not support the functions I would need. Full disk encryption will land in Ubuntu soon. I’m hanging out for that.
No
Yup and negligible. If I’m forced to contend with a windows environment bitlocker is utilized.
I also utilize a ram disk in a windows os. Imdisk in windows. I migrate temp files and logs into the ram disk. It saves on disk writes and increases privacy.
If pretty straightforward to encrypt if utilizing Linux right from install time.
As for my server I too utilize nextcloud. However, the nextcloud data is on a zfs dataset. This dataset is encrypted.
I did this by installing nextcloud from docker running within a proxmox container. That proxmox lxc container has the nextcloud dataset passed into it.
I did this by installing nextcloud from docker running within a proxmox container. That proxmox lxc container has the nextcloud dataset passed into it.
That’s almost what I’m doing (I’m using a VM in Proxmox where I install all my Docker containers). Right now I’m thinking about encrypt only the data volume (a NFS share from Proxmos host) since all the sensible data will be there.
No. If someone gets to my server that’ll be the least of my worries.
I use full disk encryption for every server (and other computers).
Encrypting your data drives is a must for everyone imho. Encrypting the OS is a must for me🤷♂️
My PC weighs 80+ lbs, live 8km from town, surrounded by farm land and there are only 3,400 in town and I live 30 min from a city of 40,000 and 40 min from another city of 70,000 and my internet is 20/10 mbps
What’s your point?
I think he is saying that his physical attack surface is very small since he is remote, so maybe he doesn’t bother?
Either way, encrypting drives is simply always good if you ever resell the computer or upgrade drives.
FreeAin’t no one stealing my shit, even via internet to upload 40tb would take 1 year 5 days at max speed in actuality it would be 1 year 8 months… Fuck I miss my 1.5G fibre connection…
I keep my drives encrypted with a key currently hosted in my router hoping they wouldn’t steal that. I’m thinking of actually putting it to cloud so I can disable it remotely.
It was quite a ride to make everything work and I made a blog post explaining it so I remember what I did.
https://nowicki.io/self-hosting-lvm-raid1-with-key-over-ftp/
Interesting, thanks!
This shouldn’t even be a question lol. Even if you aren’t worried about theft, encryption has a nice bonus: you don’t have to worry about secure erasing your drives when you want to get rid of them. I mean, sure it’s not that big of a deal to wipe a drive, but sometimes you’re unable to do so - for instance, the drive could fail and you may not be able to do the wipe. So you end up getting rid of the drive as-is, but an opportunist could get a hold of that drive and attempt to repair it and recover your data. Or maybe the drive fails, but it’s still under warranty and you want to RMA it - with encryption on, you don’t have to worry about some random accessing your data.
Dude just use a hammer
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How do you even encrypt a server so that it doesn’t require human intervention every time it goes down/restarts?
Use Clevis either with TPM or Tang (remote server) https://github.com/latchset/clevis
Isn’t that what a TPM could be used for?
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I’m too lazy to look up the details. But you can have a small ssh server running as part of initrd. I think it’s dropbear. I log into that and unlock the root drive from there.
Of course that necessitates an unencrypted /boot/.
Did it on Debian and it was relatively easy to set up.
I‘m in the process of setting up a new NAS with Debian and disk encryption, and this is exactly what I’m struggling with. I’ve tried multiple guides for Dropbear but every time I try to SSH into the server to unlock it, I get “Permission denied”.
This answer here covers it quite nice imo.
Important is that you update your initramfs with the command after you edited the dropbear initramfs config and or you copied the key over.
For the client it is important to define 2 different known hosts files since the same host will have 2 different host keys, 1 when encrypted with dropbear, and 1 when operational with (usually) sshd.
Also you need to use root when you connect to your server to unlock it. No other user will work with the default setup.
I was actually using my own user account instead of root, but now that you mention it… I’m not sure how that would even work so yeah that makes sense.
I did rebuild the initramfs after every change but did not manually copy the key file anywhere other than etc.
Will check out the link tomorrow. Thanks a lot for sharing!
Edit: tried again with root and it worked flawlessly :D
I don’t reboot my server that often. But I think I use a dedicated port and key for it. I don’t use them anywhere else. Maybe the key has to be a specific format for Dropbear.
Files could be decrypted by the end user. The OS itself could remain unencrypted.
TPM, but it’s a pain in the ass and breaks a lot. The new version of Ubuntu should handle it better, but if you’re not on Ubuntu, that won’t help you.
TPM solves a sigthly different threat model: if you dispose the hd or if someone takes it out from your computer it is fully encrypted and safe. But if someone steals your whole server it can start and decrypt the drive. So you have to trust you have good passwords and protection for each service you run. depending on what you want to protect for this is either great solution or sub optimal
I remember this blog post (I cannot find right now) where the person split the decryption password in two: half stored on the server itself and half on a different http server. And there was an init script which downloaded the second half to decrypt the drive. There is a small window of time between when you realize that the server is stolen and when you take off the other half of the password where an attacker could decrypt your data. But if you want to protect from random thieves this should be safe enough as long as the two servers are in different locations and not likely to be stolen toghether.
TPM is a good way, Mine is setup to have encryption of / via TPM with luks so it can boot no issues, then actual sensitive data like the /home/my user is encrypted using my password and the backup system + fileserver is standard luks with password.
This setup allows for unassisted boot up of main systems (such as SSH) which let’s you sign in to manually unlock more sensative drives.
How do you even encrypt a server so that it doesn’t require human intervention every time it goes down/restarts?
The only time my Server goes down, is when i manually reboot it. So waiting a minute or two, to ssh into it and entering the passphrase is no inconvenience.
I don’t do anything that warrants it, but if I did have sensitive data that I was worried about being stolen, those drives would be in a system completely cut off from the Internet to prevent remote theft, and encrypted in the event of a physical theft. If I was especially paranoid, I’d booby trap the drives to wipe themselves if they are tampered with.
Nope. This isn’t part of my threat model.
I don’t have sensitive data and stealing a drive would be inconvenient for a thief.
You don’t have sensitive data? Would you mind expanding on that a bit for me? Just curious how you like, live, and stuff.
Plex data, pi hole, and home assistant don’t contain anything meaningful. No credentials are stored in a form that can be reused.
The most sensitive is immich, which I’m more concerned about backups than I am someone might steal my nudes. Their online anyway.
Email is hosted off-site and I still have physical files for a lot of my documents. If someone stole hdds out of my server, they’d get a lot of Linux isos, pictures of cars, porn, tons of versioned software and games installers, etc.
Maybe my definition of sensitive is different than yours though.
I’m surprized as well, like I guess I would understand if it’s a no log DNS server but, what else wouldn’t have sensitive information.
My Music, Movies and Shows, I dont consider them private/sensitive, as they aren’t illegal to possess or even download in my country. I would even donate my filled but corrupted drive to a repair guy, he can have the media if he can repair it.
Use Cryptomator to have your data safe from prying eyes.
