I notice a lot of people use terms like “psychotic” or “psychopath” as insults and negative descriptions on here. These are clinical terms that are used to describe real people with difficulties, not boogeymen! I don’t disagree with the sentiment that these people are doing wrong, but if you wouldn’t use the r-slur or “autistic” as an insult (which you shouldn’t) then you shouldn’t use these words either. And I get the idea of calling someone delusional, but take care that you don’t just mean “I disagree with them.” Though by posting on neurodiverse I imagine I’m preaching to the choir.
Sincerely, a casual schizoaffective disorder haver.
“psychotic” or “psychopath”
I don’t disagree with the sentiment that these people are doing wrong
How is experiencing psychosis, as a psychotic does, doing wrong?
No, I mean that the people being described as psychotic is doing wrong. One example was s certain governor who killed her dog and then bragged about it. Some people were calling her psychotic. My point is she was doing wrong, but psychosis is A) not what’s happening and B) not wrong. Sorry for the miscommunication.
Good post. And like others I’ll chime in with the casual ableism regarding intelligence, it takes an effort to cut out those phrases, but it’s worth it and should be encouraged.
Yeah. They can be hard to cut out, but I am trying. Ableism is just so ingrained in US culture it can be hard to even become aware of things you’re saying that can be ableist. But it’s definitely worth it.
i’ll edit the comment where i said it the other day. i used psychotic when i meant psychopathic but unaware that could be harmful
i also understand psychotic is it’s own thing. i’ve experienced temporary psychosis before and psychopathy is still a frontier yet to be explored that will probably end up being a seen as a spectrum of neurodiversity just like autism and ADHD
If you see something, say something, call it out comrade, we will support you ✊
This should be an emote lol
Since it wasn’t mentioned, please make sure to file a mod report if you do see ableist comments. Mods aren’t omnipotent and omnipresent Cthulonic cosmic horrors waiting in the shadows for one of you to slip up so we can bonk you with the silly hammer, so if you see something
say somethingreport it!Mods aren’t omnipotent and omnipresent Cthulonic cosmic horrors
Speak for yourself
I helped make you, don’t give me any lip young great old one!
Hexbear mod application: what Bloodborne ending did you get first
I haven’t played bloodborneBeen years since I last tried but I couldn’t even beat the first boss
Only Fromsoft game where that’s ever happened to me
Cleric Beast can get wrecked if you hang out by its legs
Good post. I think I use these terms a lot without noticing. I will work on cutting out these words as pejoratives in my language.
As others have pointed out, ableism is pretty heavily embedded in mainstream culture and one of the more acceptable forms of discrimination.
I’m guilty of using words like stupid all the time and I’m ND myself. It’s hard to buck something that’s so commonplace.
I was surprised how positive the comments section was until I realized this was posted to [email protected]
Agreed 100%.
Many words like these reside in a cultural space where you know they’re punching down on ND people, but you somehow end up being treated like the asshole the moment you call someone out on it.
I think that’s partially responsible for the term “brain worms” taking off in leftist spaces. Rhetorically, we all want some way to mock someone for being particularly intellectually lazy, naïve, or uncritical in their analysis, but it seems like all the words that have the intended weight on the receiver are all just direct comparisons to people with learning or psychiatric disabilities.
Exactly! Those descriptions are definitely the sense we often go for, but they don’t carry the mocking tone we’d sometimes like to include, though it may just be inherent that something with a hurtful connotation must be harmful to someone. Otherwise it wouldn’t really be hurtful.
yeah we need to do better on that. brainstorming alternate words might help. I’ve taken to calling people dipshits but that doesn’t really work for this sort of unhinged, vile behavior.
I just steal from old movies: Dog-brained, good-for-nothing, layabout, brickminded, ass-handed, shitspreading, flearidden amateurish ignorant SOCIAL DEMOCRATS.
those are good, they all imply the person is dumb or lazy or just “bad” tho, I struggle more to find words for calculated uncaring evil, or behavior that flagrantly violates all normal social boundaries in order to do harm, than calling people ignorant, incompetent, or just bad
Malicious?
“Bloodthirsty warmongers” might work here and there? (Thinkin about alternative insults for imperial core governmental people)
Vicious, monstrous, sadistic, depraved, detestable or reprehensible (especially morally)
Depraved I think is an especially good one! It has that venom without (as far as I know) being unintentionally hateful.
This thread makes me think that maybe we could brainstorm a post which has common ableist terms to provide suggestions for alternatives to drive a bit of gentle culture change.
I use words like ridiculous, laughable, senseless, absurd, and wild (e.g. wild idea/let’s not get wild) a lot in the place of crazy. I could do better but I’m reasonably good on it.
I need to do better on terms like stupid and dumb. I know on the slur scale they’re very mild but that’s not a good excuse.
we’ve tried a few times but it’s basically impossible to find drop-in 1:1 replacements that are concise and evocative. Scatalogical is usually safest but even something like shithead is ableism if we’re strict about it.
This sounds like a great idea! I don’t know a lot of slurs, but I know the ones that bother me. (Most of them were in the post already) But we could invite others to share ones that bother them and we can hopefully achieve this!
“Despicable” is my go-to.
(Also, greetings fellow Cupcake).
Am I wrong for thinking psychopathy should be treated
just as badin the same way as sadism?Is being a sadist and being a sadist as kink categorically different? Its just a responsiblity/ consent thing, like you can be a totally healthy person who is a sadist, right? I’m phrasing this poorly, but equating it with psychopathy on a mental health level seems wrong to me, not that either one should imply “bad person”, is there anyone who could educate me on this?
I’m no expert but I do think there is a difference between sexual sadism and general sadism.
i have flirted with sadism when i was younger. like i would really, really be compelled to hurt things when extremely stressed and almost harmed some pets before. luckily i was able to stop myself but the compulsion was incredibly strong and part of me wanted to just get relief
also have some sexual sadism used kink as a safe sane consensual outlet for it. it’s only fun with people that enjoy it
Yes, psychopathy isn’t really a thing, the actual diagnosis that coincides with what previously was psychopathy is antisocial personality disorder. Much like all the other cluster B personality disorders, ASPD is often misunderstood, and media portrayals (as well as the popular imagination) get them completely wrong.
So as I understand it, psychopathy is a disorder that incorporates low empathy and antisocial behaviors. A psychopath need not be a mass murderer and can, in fact, be indistinguishable from any other person on the street. The connotation of being a harmful, violent person is not necessarily the reality. My stance is “Any person is capable of any thing.”
Some would argue that being indifferent to others’ suffering is
just as bad asequal to taking pleasure in it. If we’re going to treat the word psychopath as derogatory, you could say the same about sadist.I’m pretty sure “sadist” isn’t used to demonize and stigmatize neurodivergent people the way “psychopath” is (at least, I haven’t personally come across it in that context but if someone else has pls lmk.) Therein lies the difference imo. Low empathy is not an inherently “evil” trait btw, it is a very common trait among neurodivergent people in fact. Painting people with low empathy as bad people because of their low empathy is ableist.
Quick internet search later: it seems “sadistic personality disorder” is an unofficial personality disorder that some people subscribe to. Hmm. That’s definitely one ableist context for the word, so I’m wrong there.
So part of being inclusive towards all sorts of neurodivergent people is embracing, encouraging, and accommodating their differences, right? Are we supposed to to treat people who take pleasure in making others suffer the same way?
You were right about “psychopath” before, I’m kind of wondering how we should treat sadism then.
Right. I think the difference there is that a psychopath typically has a physical difference in their brain that limits their empathy ability. Now you can also say a sadist is born with the desire and they can’t really control it, so I’m not sure where the answer lies there. I typically don’t use sadist as an insult (or at all, really) but I can see the arguments.
Language to go off on someone for being a dickhead that doesn’t catch ND or marginalized people in the collateral is a lot more common than language for telling someone their ideas aren’t good, which all seem to be predicated on insisting they instead actually have a neurological condition that many people struggle with.
With the added bit of not necessarily being accurate. Even if they do struggle with the condition, that doesn’t mean their idea is bad. The idea being bad is what does.
I’m always willing to change my language but often find it difficult to find appropriate strength replacements. I’ve been dropping in “ghoul” a lot of the time but very occasionally it just doesn’t feel right, you know what I mean?
Medical words I’m not too bad on and they’re usually easy to replace but I think ability-based words are a weak point though. I don’t have a good replacement words for when someone makes errors out of carelessness, ignorance or airheadedness. I’ve used dense to replace “stupid” from time to time but it doesn’t always feel right to me.
Often the more common the word in society the harder it feels to find a suitable replacement for it.
90% of the time “ghoul” and “ghoulish” are more apt descriptors for the kind of mindlessly destructive, hollow, anti-human, posessed-by-capital behavior we’re talking about anyway.
Vampiric is another potentially good one
To be fair it is very rude to the actual raised dead
Just to add to the conversation, it is incredible how many words are rooted in ableism. If you’re not actively checking your language, you likely use some words that aren’t cool without knowing it. I grew up in the 90’s which was right before people took this stuff seriously. I hate to admit it, but when I was a kid/teen, my best friend was more on the ball about this stuff and would point it out to me all the time. He really helped me think harder about the words I use.
Also there’s this weird problem straight white males over a certain age have where their bigoted ass co workers just assume you’re cool with it, and You’re faced with the choice of causing a stink and facing being fired or ostracized, or you can let it roll off your back. There’s definitely a middle ground, but it comes with risks to your livelihood just the same.
Also there’s this weird problem straight white males over a certain age have where their bigoted ass co workers just assume you’re cool with it, and You’re faced with the choice of causing a stink and facing being fired or ostracized, or you can let it roll off your back. There’s definitely a middle ground, but it comes with risks to your livelihood just the same
This one sucks, and I personally struggle with it surprisingly often. Ableism is the most common where I work, but of course these coworkers smuggle in other shit too. It’s hard to find the line of correcting coworkers vs protecting your job (right to work state, so of course employment never feels entirely secure). That being said, I have had pretty decent luck with a few more senior people at my current job, there’s just a lot of pushback on anything they do not immediately understand. Still don’t feel comfortable enough to unmask around these people or be out at work by any means, but there is that sliver of a silver lining.
My job is surprisingly in a good place with that stuff right now. That hasn’t been the case most o the time I’ve been there though. If it was bad enough, we say something to management. Sometimes I just have to let it roll off my back though. That doesn’t mean I partake, but I tell myself “they’re the one being shitty. Just because it hits my ears doesn’t make me complicit”. I wish we lived in a world where we could stand up every time, but that’s just not how people are in the US.
It seems to be trending better though
Right to work is a crime against humanity, full stop. I live in a slightly more civilized country where that would be absolutely unthinkable to put into law and is SUPER illegal to practice. Co-workers being ableist etc and management allowing it or worse participating is something you could report to the labor board because in a normal place a right to work means that you are protected from discrimination on the job from co-workers and especially employers. Your boss catches shit from the government and probably gets fined and you’re basically immune from being fired after because if it could be linked to being retaliatory in any way, that’s even worse. Instead you’ll just get your hours cut down to next to nothing so you have to quit. To legally fire someone there needs to be written cause and certain causes are protected from immediate termination and require a written warning and then a repeat of whatever violation. Now, a LOT of people here don’t know their rights and haven’t read the labor code, but we are covered for that stuff.
Instead you’ll just get your hours cut down to next to nothing so you have to quit.
that’s still fucked tho and is “constructive dismissal”
I have found workplace wise that most of the ‘above a certain age’ crowd is finally mostly out ofnthe work force. I’ve certainly seen a big turnaround working kitchens that way, probably cause line cooks age out earlier, once you start getting to around 50, you gotta find something that destroys your body less. They used to be absolute cesspits of toxic masculinity and it’s almost completely reverses what was normal just like 7 years ago will get your ass fired now cause the chef is an older millennial, the more senior staff are in their 30s and the main bulk of grunts are Gen z, that and the demographics of the working poor have gotten way further left and a LOT more queer.
My job is essentially ran by a 40ish year old turbolib woman who is pretty good about removing bad elements. I’ve worked with her for over a decade and she’s told me over the years that she’s had a lot of trouble with older men having that “I have pairs of jeans older than you” mentality. You’re right about the old people getting phased out though. Most of the people I work with are around 40. It’s weird and cool seeing what Gen Z has been bringing to the table though.
First generation to not be able to say the F slur in elementary school. As a group on general, kitchen wise, they’re usually fucking awesome. Quick on the up take, usually not afraid to ask questions and what they ask tends to show they’re looking at the big picture where old dudes working the line are tunnel vision AF, and they don’t take shit. As a millenial, their average guys seem to be as good as our pretty good guys. Most of their worst guys are only as bad as our bottom tier average guys. There’s for sure been a bump up in decency. Generations are fake anyway, but there seems to be a general sense of solidarity between us as well, like we’re just the same people but older, Gen x is now known for its TERFs and boomers are boomers. There can be some kinda funny splits regarding pop culture stuff but aside from that, it’s basically the same people.
Unfortunately very normalised in society. Even I was only alerted to words like “insane” being very hurtful a few months ago. I’m a big “absurd”, “ridiculous” and of course “unserious” user now.
Good post,
hopefully there can be selfcrit and waning usage of these terms in harmful contexts.I’m personally a big fan of understatement, so I like using ridiculously underwhelming insults. Like for this South Dakota governor, calling her meanie of rude when atrocious might be a more appropriate word.
“lame” and “crippled/crippled by” were pointed out to me by a friend who has muscular dystrophy a few years ago, they are also both incredibly common. I’ve sadly had quite a bit of pushback when trying to correct comrades on it (even in the old r/CTH sub)
Yeah I ejected “crippled” from my vocab ages ago, I guess “hobbled” too? Unfortunately this kind of language change is still considered somewhat fringe, I think…
Creep and creeper actually had the same meaning as ‘cripple’ but fortunately was lost over time
Huh, really. I do not use either so much but thank fuck for that!
hey have some more pushback
as a fellow “can’t walk properly” person, the last time lame applied to me was a bible passage. the only times I’m (or anyone else, unless there’s an american vs commonwealth english thing going on here) am reminded about the ability meaning is when etymology
s bring it up like it’s a problem.it’s certainly dated to call someone “a cripple” and, again in my experience, that’s usually self-ID. Usages like crippling anxiety or a damaged mechanical system (“land a crippled airplane”) don’t seem to be disparaging or contributing to the marginalization of people so someone would have to explain to me how those are ableist.
Just passing along something that hurt my friend (and according to them, others in their circles). We also met at church so that may have played a part as well.
I usually open people’s eyes on the term crazy when I have the right audience because our discourse around that term is the obvious stuff but also it implies that someone should be locked up or deprived of rights but it’s also very common to use it to imply that someone “deserves” to be taken advantage of (“our prices are crazy” and “we’ve gone completely mad”).
Kinda gross when you think about it, especially in the context of the stats on mentally ill people being abused and exploited.
Super fucking gross, I hate to see it. Ableist-ass society…
