cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/15089465
Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s ‘Scary’ For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
The issue is that there aren’t low cost cars anymore. Everything is over 25k and the used cars market is insane.
So yeah, no shit we want cheaper cars.
Yeah, it’s wild to me. I was looking to replace a vehicle and cheapest ev was just over $30k. But none have been in stock, only $45k+.
I’ll buy a new electric car from anyone. It just needs:
- Over 175miles on a charge
- To cost less than $30K
- To not collect any data on me
My longest regular drive (few times a year) is around 75 miles each way. I just want to be able to do that without worrying about charging.
I could afford something that’s $45K, but I don’t want to, I don’t need that much car.
And not data-mining everything I do to sell to my insurance company, is really a standard thing that should never happen.
Just about anything else I’m flexible with. And from what I’ve seen, it should be relatively easy to build that car.Bonus point if I can get an actual color!
Something that’s not black, white, or grey.I believe the data mining for insurance is opt in for most if not all EVs at least currently. As for collecting your data in general? Most do that but you could always just unplug the cell modem.
Never, ever trust an opt in/out at all unless it’s open source and audited. Otherwise, you have to trust that they’ll do the right thing.
Or, hope that unplugging is not only possible, but doesn’t break anything else.
The problem is opt in isn’t actually opt in because they’re depending on the integrity of the scummiest industry in America. They’re supposed to sell you on it and they get a bonus for everyone that signs up. So what actually happens is that page gets clicked through before you know what it is.
It’s plain to see on page 420 of the TOS. It’s right there duh!
At least Hyundai might be collecting and sharing data without consent, and I wouldn’t be surprised if others do it too. Based on just this anecdote from Security Now, but still. https://piped.video/watch?v=GR28LQbIiAY&t=3471
Bonus point if I can get an actual color!
Something that’s not black, white, or grey.Best we can do is wet putty gray
The difficult part of this is that you’d have to have a car with 30% + 15% more range than your minimum, because your daily usage will be between 80% at full charge and 10% at lowest charge, and you will lose 15% efficiency in cold weather, snow, rain, headwinds.
So for a minimum of 175 miles of range you really have to shop for a car with ~250 miles of range to be usable for you. I strongly believe we will see cars in the 30k price bracket with 250 miles of EPA range, but they are going to come with tech.
75mi x2 ways, is 150mi.
150mi x1.15 (15%), is 172.5mi.This also isn’t daily driving. It’s a few times a year at most. So the 150mi trips would pre-aranged 100% charge days.
Daily driving is less than 50mi. Closer to 30 really. So yah, I really only need the 175 miles of range.
The rare road trip that’s longer, would be once every 2-3 years at most. I’d just rent something for those trips.And when I say less than $30K I mean less. Not the in $30K price bracket. The $20K+ bracket. Maybe $28 or 29K tops, if it had some killer feature I really liked.
If they can pass the crash tests and get over other regulatory issues then sure make them available and let the market decide. I recall when Hyundai first entered the US market and the Yugo. One was able to change to meet US market demands but it took a decade and the other died.
Chinese brands compete in other markets against US, Japanese, EU, and Korean brands. In my experience, most folks are choosing non-Chinese brands because the quality, performance and features are not competitive.
If they can pass the crash tests and get over other regulatory issues
Including labor conditions.
Sounds like boot kissing, nobody I know doesn’t give a fuck about features other than air conditioning and maybe a sunroof if they’re fancy. They certainly don’t give a fuck about performance we aren’t a bunch of teenagers trying to wave our dicks around with a sports car anymore.
I’m honestly quite confident if Chinese cars were allowed to compete and drag the prices down they would actually be quite popular. I know a lot of people that would love one of those little Japanese tiny trucks if they could get their hands on one without all the bullshit of importing it
Performance isn’t “high performance racing stuff”, it is ride comfort, normal cornering stability, stopping stability, general safety, etc.
I lived in China for 12 years. Folks there bought foreign brands even though they cost more because they were just better.
Now I live in Vietnam, as people here transition from motorcycles to cars, they have plenty of choices and most choose non-Chinese brands. Toyota and Hyundai are the biggest sellers for sedans, they and Ford are the biggest sellers for SUVs, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Ford are the biggest sellers for the light trucks (Ranger, Hilux, etc).
That’s great for legacy manufacturers to be able to compete in those segments. However it might be completely different with EVs, where legacy manufacturers only have a small number of a few high priced models, and are backing off from them.t. Theyre not even trying to compete. They have no history of good vehicles. They don’t have any ready alternatives. Maybe things are different outside the US, but legacy manufacturers are ceding the market to whoever comes
I dunno, maybe put out not stupid bloated trash?
Crazy how all those attempts to modernize or educate our workforce to compete gets treated as goverment overreach, they’re teaching us the woke mind virus, socialism, blah blah. Then it’s the dirty immigrants are taking our jobs.
Americans deserve what’s coming to them because they fucking chose it while waving flags.
That’s the least on topic rant I’ve seen today. Pretty impressive considering some of the emails my family passes around.
I guess you need ‘america is willfully losing competitive ground in big industries’ spelled out for you.
What you wrote does not say that. It could maybe be stretched to say it if you went around your elbow to scratch your ass, but it absolutely did not say that
No, I see the same thing. There’s all this kerfluffle about Chinese companies taking over another industry, and healthy doses of Sinophobia, and all I see is everyone else throwing the opportunity away.
We’ve needed and been able to produce affordable useful EVs for over a decade now. Did they come from legacy manufacturers? No. Tesla burst on the scene and proved it could be done: did legacy manufacturers jump on that bandwagon? No. Tesla stock valuation skyrocketed above the stock of all legacy manufacturers combined: did they see the future? Lip service, announcements, misinformation. Legacy manufacturers finally get started, with huge PR machines and precious few products, all way overpriced, US government throws in big incentives, but still: way too few, way too expensive, way too much resistance. Now Chinese companies are flooding out affordable practical products, us legacy manufacturers hide behind their protectionist barriers, but instead of taking advantage of the reprieve, just backtrack, hide, run back into the closet. In four years the incentives and protectionism will disappear and we’ll be left with legacy manufacturers holding onto their last few customers for ICE pickups while companies like BYD will have carpeted the world with affordable practical EVs
Apparently when everything’s made in China, it gives China a bit of an advantage…
… who’d have thought, except everyone who said so when the west started outsourcing all their manufacturing work there.
Also having a government which invests heavily in its infrastructure
And every dly that goes by that companies send more shit there to be made blows my mind until you realize that corporations have no loyalty to the country in which they reside and stay only as long as the country subsidizes them and allows them to get away with paying no taxes.
dly?
Day
Fyi, the US is the second biggest manufacturer after China. And per capita the US is a bigger manufacturer.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/manufacturing-by-country
China still handles nearly a third of all manufacturing in the world, and the US only a sixth.
Every time I go to buy something “Made in USA” from a hardware store, it’s measurements are all like 5/8ths of a freedom eagle.
At least the Chinese stuff uses metric, even if it’s generally less robust
For sure, China is a manufacturing juggernaut, no question. They also have 4 times the population of the US. But in terms of raw numbers, absolutely China is the biggest manufacturer
Silly Clinton!
Most Americans are open to cheap anything without caring about quality, or slave labor, or giving their money to people who will use it against them. See also WalMart and Dollar General.
You say that like Ford, Stellantis, and GM aren’t building their cars out of the same slave-built components as BYD, just with a +80% price increase because they’re Amerikkkan.
No, they don’t. They say it as though it’s a universal regardless of country of origin.
The big three are asking for the least amount of “made in China” as possible. Sure, some chips are impossible to get elsewhere but they are moving to near shoring and SE Asia as much as possible
I wanted my car made in America. So, I bought a Toyota.
Joking aside, even if someone goes through all the “effort” to buy an “American Made” car, a lot of the components are probably made in China anyway. With the very long tail of logistical chains these days, it’s almost impossible to know the providence of all the pieces of anything. And even the suppliers have no clue about all the places their parts are ending up.
Whatever their quality, which seem to be below American but above European in terms of reliability, they’re still going to be cheaper and better then a chewed up Altima on it’s 12th owner at a usurious 15% APR being sold at predatory “buy here, pay here” lot that plague low income American neighborhoods like a herpes infection.
All current automakers selling cars in the use including Koreans, have been happy to screw over American customers with oligopolistic pricing for decades.
To quote a great philosopher “There’s not a damn thing funny. You gotta have a car in the land of milk and honey.”. An automobile is a critical tool for economic mobility in the states and the US has been happy leave a auto underclass forced to buy garbage used cars at eye watering APRs. Loans all backed by Wall Street criminals.
A car maker like BYD could not come soon enough.
They should be scared. Its their policies that drive the shift. Stop giving outrageous monetary rewards to management and put that money into r&d and try to actually produce things people want
My thing is, I don’t trust a Chinese car company to remember to install the air bags. Or the brake pads. I don’t trust the batteries to not catch on fire or the seats to not give me herpes.
Meanwhile, in the real world we have Cybertrucks that can slice off fingers, have gas pedals that can get stuck in full acceleration, steering that breaks, and get bricked by a car wash or a small puddle. And that’s all without mentioning the pedophile Neo-Nazi CEO.
pedophile Neo-Nazi CEO
For fuck’s sake. What did I miss?
Yeah, Teslas are also complete garbage that should all be confiscated and scrapped, the company shut down and the CEO, board of directors and all shareholders should die penniless and cold.
This doesn’t negate the core tenet of Chinese culture: Negligence.
GM let a woman rot in prison on murder charges for years rather than admit in court it knew about the fault ignition locks.
Is it possible that Americans just don’t have any good domestic options for an adorable EV…
Hey, the Eggasus is plenty adorable.
Still waiting for someone to make a Catbus EV though.
If I hadn’t made a spelling error I would have never heard of the Eggasus, which looks terrible but definitely adorable.
Pretty sure you mean affordable, but I think adorable fits because the cars are smaller for which we also don’t have good options!
I’m just going to leave the typo in because it’s funny
Whose fault is it?
Chinese EV manufacturers, on the other hand, are already five to 10 years ahead of their American and European rivals, Kumar said. A lot of that is thanks to aggressive investments in the EV industry from the Chinese government.
Don’t forget the IP theft!
Stealing IP from SUV companies to make cheap EVs is insanely based
Everyone does that though. My favourite is the original Xbox and everything from around the same time having notoriously bad capacitors because a faulty electrolyte formula was chain stolen.
Interesting, I’d love to dig on this, any reference?
It’s amazing what kind of leaps you can make with government funding research.
From the average American’s perspective? Probably still China. China always bad. Always.
Americans are also so lacking in moral consistency that they’ll throw their racism and xenophobia to the side just to save $1.
Have you ever handled anything made in China? It’ll be something invented somewhere else, implemented worse.
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On the other hand, so many things in America have become so expensive many people are priced out of the market. Perhaps they will save the $1.00 because if they don’t, it doesn’t happen. The average price of a new car in America is more than $47k. That’s a lot of money.
Yet US has incentives, mandates, and protectionism. Why aren’t US manufacturers 5-10 years ahead?
I assume lobbying
People will be Open to affordable cars from anyone if the traditional makers don’t start offering affordable vehicles.
Has anyone released an electric car which came with an extra battery for trip replacements, and gave you the ability to buy more batteries for longer trips?
Yes. Chaina even: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w
There’s trucks with swappable batteries but it all lacks a universal format.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=hNZy603as5w
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The batteries weigh a few hundred pounds I think so it would be like replacing your motor mid roadtrip.
What ever happened to the whole competition thing, ya commies?
