It will be open source, end to end encrypted using Signal’s double ratchet encryption protocol, and he plans to make it easy for fediverse platforms to integrate it. The beta will release later this month.
He’s also the creator of https://fedidb.org btw
Your link,
https://mastodon.social/@dansup/110836811082599292%20sup.%20is%20an%20open%20source%20encrypted%20fediverse%20instant%20messenger,%20similar%20to%20whatsapp,%20made%20by%20pixelfed.%20%20The%20beta%20will%20be%20launching%20later%20this%20month,%20and%20btw%20most%20fediverse%20accounts%20will%20work,%20not%20just%20Pixelfed%20%F0%9F%98%89is broken. I think you accidentally copied the body text as well. Cleaning up the link results in https://mastodon.social/@dansup/110836811082599292, which works fine.Yeah i was just about to say this, the edit doesn’t seem to have federated with kbin yet either
Thanks, fixed.
Great news that it will work across the fediverse. I’d love to try pixelfed for example, but its got too much of a walled garden thing going on since nobody I know uses it.
I just uninstalled Pixelfed. Mostly because the app is absolutely garbage on Android, and the developer made it look like an iOS app.
The app is just so dead. I’m happy to revisit later, but as for now I’ll stick with posting my stuff on Mastodon and Lemmy.
Sadly it doesn’t look so much like an iOS app, more like a bad Instagram clone 😕
Honestly, I don’t hate that Idea much bcoz I think it will help users switching from IG to PixelFed.
Fedilab works great for me.
AP isn’t really meant for real-time communication
I think AP will just be used as account authentication/creation with Signal software as the backend, but this is speculation.
Nice. This sounds like a federated signal messanger? Why not using matrix or xmpp? 🤨
Can you use matrix with a lemmy or mastodon account?
No, right now you need two separate accounts but you could combine them if you wanted to
According to this post, Signal can federate, but chooses not to. In another post, it’s said that Matrix is based off Signal.
So, one way to look at it announcement is “you will be able send Signal/Matrix messages from your fediverse instance of choice”, I believe
Huh. I wonder what they mean by “bad user UX”. I was expecting concerns about encryption or privacy, not UX. I already use Signal, so it would be a positive for me if they federate.
To be a bit more precise, Signal is against federation from two angles:
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Innovation: Signal values absolute control over the protocol so that they can more rapidly implement UX experiences scene in other modern messaging apps. It also eliminates malicious or outdated servers changing the UX between users. Ultimately folks won’t blame the servers, they’ll blame the app, and stop using it.
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No rope for users: They seem pretty confident that the Apple-style of software and UX is right— if a user can change stuff enough to break it, they will. For secure messaging, they’d rather users have fewer choices to be sure it is secure.
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Signal has been the basis of basically every private messenger since it’s inception. They may have since forked but they’re almost all based loosely on it’s concepts.
Yeah … I read it as well.
This announcement does not mean that the services (signal, matrix, etc) will be integrated. At one point there’ll be a bridge for matrix. But like google, all of them need to implements MLS at one point. Maybe then they’ll be able to communicate
Kind of surreal seeing my own Mastodon post linked, damn.
If you’re curious about the details I refer to, there’s an indepth article on lwn.net regarding this from 2016 here: https://lwn.net/Articles/687294/
That article was very informative, thanks!
“you will be able send Signal/Matrix messages from your fediverse instance of choice”
While no details are clear, it’ll definitely not be this. Matrix has it’s own implementation which isn’t compatible with signal (megolm or something like that), and I really don’t think dansup will be making it matrix compatible. It’ll probably be its own thing.
Oh, that’s a shame. It’s one of the bummers of instant messaging, everything seems to be incompatible with everything
I have no idea what the fediverse brings to an E2EE IM app. They seem like contradictory concepts.
no walls?
All existing messengers have “no walls” if you consider they all transfer data via TCP/IP. Except the wall is the encryption/higher level protocol. Now just replace TCP/IP with federated servers. Different messengers will be unable to communicate with each other because they’d need to implement the same encryption.
If you’re able to standardize the encryption then things can interoperate if it’s fediverse based or not.
Desktop fscking client, please. Not electron based would be nice, yes? QT is good.
ICQ-style or old Skype-style user directory would be wonderful too. VoIP is not something I’d care about, file transfers are.
This is cool.
Chill, you’re not the only one here.
VoIP in a mainstream messenger is something that most people use nowadays to avoid calling people from their SIM cards which costs them much.
Video calling too is something I personally use too especially on iMessage or Telegram.
I’m a software engineer, I appreciate some old school things that work perfectly well like ICQ or Vim or emacs or working only with shortcuts. But you know what’s also a shortcut? Not having to use 50 different messengers just because this one doesn’t have VoIP and I can’t bring my friends or my mom here but I can bring only my nerd friends”.
This is all business and target audience oriented. You are not the only target audience out there and especially when you don’t demand from a messenger to be able to have VoIP. Even Instagram has VoIP these days. A photo-video-media sharing app. Let alone a messenger.
Chill, you’re not the only one here.
We don’t take kindly to people who think they’re the only one here.
I talked about various audiences not just myself. The person I replied to talked as if the app was made for him explicitly. “VoIP is not something I’d care about, file transfers are” like this kind of talking is like bruh, the app is not made only for you.
yeah, the app is made for you and him. So doing the math we have a -1 “VoIP is not something I’d care about” and a +1 “Video calling too is something I personally use…” which results in 0% significance. So let’s just talk, voice our opinions, and chill.
No, the app is made for everybody who wants to use a messenger. Not just you and him. It’s supposed to be under the standards of the feddiverse.
The comments here are not a poll. Providing especially personal comments about a nerdy user like me and the guy I replied about “I would like it like ICQ” and such shit, would not help the creator make a good choice. Most people nowadays, especially zoomers, dont even know what ICQ is or how it works or how to even login to it. Most people, proven by ehm … the success of messenger, discord, whatsapp, telegram, viber, signal everything … want a messenger that provides what the mainstream messenger wants with most of the features that everybody provides and are mainstream used while having ease of access.
We should try to help the creator. Not misguide him. Again, the comments are not a poll, they’re supposed to help to make a constructive conversation. And when you talk as if the app is made only about yourself, you’re not really helping.
Makes more sense as matrix client than ActivityPub
I’m still trying to figure out why this would be used over Matrix. It seems to be the same without bridges?
Oh god matrix is such a bitch to handle and deal with, laggy and just in need of so much work. I’ll be so happy to have an alternative.
I used it and hosted it for months with friends and family and we all got locked out due to bugs and had neighboring federated servers that wouldn’t connect.
What year? I’ve run a docker synapse for a couple years with no issues (other than iOS client encryption bugs). I was surprised I could run it without a restart for 6months+
This year. I gave it a VPS with plenty of cores and memory too. It’s like once I got it working it would work for awhile right, nbd. But then when I’d join a federated room over on matrix.org it would literally take days to add it. I even smoke tested it with their federation tester.
The lockout I’m describing is like an auth bug. The moment you sign in in a couple different places it has trouble unencrypting messages and even if you verify the other devices identity it will act like it’s still unrecognized, and delete messages. It happened to my girlfriend, then my friend, then me. Twice in two separate attempts to use it daily. I tried using it as a complete iMessage replacement across all platforms so I’m saying I was using it heavily.
And yeah I used docker too. It’s a neat concept it just falls apart at scale from what I’ve literally seen twice. Doesn’t matter what client I used either.
just yesterday element literally gave up on joining the nix matrix space after staying at joining for hours on my selfhosted dendrite instance
a week or so ago the exact same thing happened with the arch matrix channel
I’m not a fan of Pixelfed, or instaclones. But the idea of a messenger e2ee that works with all the fedi is such a awesome idea.
Why are you not a fan? I’m genuinely curious, as I’m vaguely evaluating such software.
Not OP but personally I just don’t like picture centric social media. Just not my thing.
While I doubt I could get my friends and family on yet ANOTHER messaging app in the year of our lord 2023.
Sup. Is a fucking brilliant name.
Double rachet encryption protocol is also rather dope
I personally hate the name, but only because I had a roommate in college who would start every conversation with “sup.”
On text messages, IMs, in person, you name it. It really started to get under my skin.
But I hope the software is good.
sup.
Yep. That’s what he’d do. So basically he’d always want you to start the conversation.
No man, you’re just supposed to say “Sup.” back to them and then repeat ad nauseum.
I might know that guy lol
(what’)SUP 🤪
So, you’re playing a little Playstation, huh? That’s whack. Playstation is whack. 'Sup with the whack Playstation, 'sup?
Could be a fantastic way to replace dm, that’s my first thought.
I remember idly wondering how DMs worked in Lemmy, and I was kinda shocked when I realized they aren’t secure.
“secure” is relative. They may not be e2e encrypted, but they are still encrypted via TLS, like any HTTPS traffic. It’s the same encryption used for online banking. If you care about your instance admin being able to read your messages, you should use Signal or a Matrix client though.
But remember that only a few years ago, almost nobody used e2e encryption, and it wasn’t much of an issue.
I think it will integrate with the existing fediverse
I’m very excited for this too. The fact that the majority of the comments are not “ewww who whants ANOTHER chat client” really shows how much demand there is for something like that in this crowded space.
I want this at the ActivityPub level, for direct/group messaging at least.
Another messenger = another target for all who hate it. This is another way - let’s see them target that channel.
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Will it support MLS? (I still don’t quite know the relationship between Double Ratchet and MLS)
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Why not Matrix?
I really like the promise of MLS, all IM apps being interoperable is an amazing thing
I’m not sure it means the apps will be interoperable, only that the protocol for sharing keys will be standardized.
I highly doubt that we will see any kind of standardization in the actual messaging protocols in the next 10 years.
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Discord is a centralised, proprietary service, sup would be a fediverse app. Discord is better than Sup just like Reddit is better than Lemmy.
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I’m not disagreeing with you. You’re saying that the fediverse produces badly designed and branded services that mirror existing apps with massive user bases, that won’t be great until a lot of users migrate over. None of that is wrong! It’s why Lemmy is a mess that constantly breaks, and Reddit is still way more useful, even if most people here hate it.
It’s just that most Lemmy users care enough about decentralisation to ignore those product downsides, in the hope that they it can be overcome over time. With a messaging product, that’s even easier. You can just install it and wait until other users join - network effects are ’much more limited than with eg Lemmy.
You’re trying to derive meaning from a system that doesn’t have one established objectively
You got like 10 people that basically said “i disagree” in voting format, nbd. Sometimes we have unpopular opinions, other times bots, other times who cares internet points
I’d be so excited to see any fediverse do the discord server/channel setup, and as soon as I see it I can start convincing friends to join it.
Matrix has this. It’s federated but doesn’t communicate with Lemmy.
He’s also the creator of https://fedidb.org btw
I don’t get it. It’s a blank page. Is there some obsolete tech I need to re-enable?
Not blank for me. I see a bunch of graphs and statistics about the fediverse.
I get the graphs, too. Kind of reminds me of the sites I’d use to monitor COVID infections a couple of years ago. Maybe the earlier poster tried to load the site during a server outage (or maybe their own Internet connection had a hiccup.)
That’s awesome
