This shit has seriously gone on too long. People who continue to cling to the “10,000 dead crushed by tanks hosed i to the gutter” bs are cranks. It’s jews control the banks, chemtrails, the earth is flat, the moon isn’t real level of crank shit and unless you’re feeling very indulgent and someone is asking in good faith it can be dismissed as equally serious to that kind of crank shit.
“China is bad country that massacred people who wanted democracy. I also hope the police can shut down the encampments at universities because it’s illegal”
I wish liberals at least formed some type of ideology instead of regurgitate half baked ideas they heard somewhere.
They exist in a blissful eternal present where there is no context, no action and reaction, only the gentle lapping of waves and the shade of the coconut tree
Pretty much everything people believe about it isn’t true, but nobody cares because it’s aimed at bad country
I’m still shocked they actually admitted Saddam’s shredder wasn’t real.
The fact that most Americans just assume tank man got run over and killed even after seeing part of the video of it is what genuinely drives me insane. Like the rest of the video is readily available bro you can see him walk away
That baffles me, because even when I was a turbolib I realized the whole point was that one guy was holding up the tanks. If they had just run him over, why would they have stopped?
As a kid, I figured he singlehandedly stopped the tanks from doing something terrible.
Same lol, good thing I found Hexbear
Saddam’s shredder?!?!?! I am too young to remember Saddam, please elaborate
Wack
They said Saddam owned a woodchipper or big shredder that he would throw dissidents in to execute them and destroy the body.
The moment I realized r/LateStageCapitalism had been ruined was when someone was unironically defending the Iraq War by referring to Saddam’s shredder. In the old days that person would’ve been quickly banned.
Things are different in LSC now and that person would definitely get banned
Imagine being the über despot murder lord as was portrayed and still needing to hide the bodies.
I think one of the interesting things about Tinyman and the tankman picture in particular is the mass psychosis (sorry if there’s a better non-ableist term I currently can’t conjure it) that the man in the picture was ran over by the tank. It’s a claim that can be categorically disproven by 15 seconds of video. But it contradicts the hegemonic narrative, so it’s like the video isn’t real, the vibes are more real than hard evidence that this man was allowed to just walk.
Yeah, I don’t think psychosis fits, because it’s a propaganda thing not an individual loss of connection with reality, but I don’t know what better term there is. Cultural delusion? It’s wild.
mass psychosis (sorry if there’s a better non-ableist term I currently can’t conjure it) that the man in the picture was ran over by the tank.
I feel like the term Mandela Effect would apply here.
Yeah it’s somewhat similar. The mandela effect people love to cite evidence for their claims though (even if it’s bunk evidence), in this case it is entirely 100% vibes based.
The Mandela effect is rooted in racism just as much as this is.
and similar to the Mandela effect, it’s Crakkkers not paying attention
This is potentially a good starting point for exposing the greater mythology about the event.
Ask if the person you’re speaking with thinks the tank man was ran over.
- If they say yes, pull up the video, and ask if that makes them wonder what else about the incident has been mythologized. If they can admit they bought some BS you can work with them, if they dig in (“oh I’m sure something sinister happened to him later”) you’re wasting your time.
- If they say no, ask why a column of tanks was so deferential with that one guy when the story goes that there was an unprompted slaughter going on elsewhere. You can talk about how the event escalated, who was escalating, etc.
Actual footage from Tiananmen square as covered by the CPC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8dqOuHqcBQ
Explanation of what happened
https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/06/02/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-fiction-and-propaganda/
Translation of official government explanation
https://www.mango-press.com/report-on-stopping-unrest-and-quelling-counter-revolutionary-riots/
Tankman full vid
https://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php (rare dub for Columbia)
Someone posted a huge photo essay and… it pretty well supports what actually happened. There are dead people, soldiers and civilians. It shows maybe, idk, 20-30 dead civvies, along with a fair number of dead soldiers. And the captions keep leading and leading and leading, but the pictures show what happened - A lot of PLA soldiers were burned to death in their trucks and APCs, there was some street fighting that resulted in a few hundred total deaths, there was no violence on the square, the PLA was unarmed until they sent in armed units to fight the insurgents. It’s fucking awesome. Do not believe your lying eyes!
Note that it is NSFL; Graphic pictures of dead and injured people.
There’s videos…no need for pics
Actual footage from Tiananmen square as covered by the CPC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8dqOuHqcBQ
Explanation of what happened
https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/06/02/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-fiction-and-propaganda/
Translation of official government explanation
https://www.mango-press.com/report-on-stopping-unrest-and-quelling-counter-revolutionary-riots/
Tankman full vid
The only famous video/image 99.9% of all Americans see of it is tank man NOT getting run over by a tank, and even then so many of them will be like “um yeah you don’t want to know what happens after the video cuts off” but the full video DOESNT CUT OFF AND HE JUST WALKS AWAY UNHARMED.
Meanwhile in America if you google “NYPD running over protestors” your results will be like:
-NYPD running over protestors May 2024
-NYPD running over protestors February 2024
-NYPD running over protestors December 2023
-NYPD running over protestors October 2023
-NYPD running over protestors March 2023
And so on and so on, and that’s just in one city
But it’s different in nypd, the protesters caused a minor inconvenience so it’s justified
This is my go to for the power of propaganda but it only works in person. It’s “Do you know what happened to the Tank Man at Tienanman Square?” People almost always answer that he was run over. The response is great because while we don’t know exactly what happened to him we know one thing for certain; he was not run over. That’s the one thing we can say for sure and its the one thing they believe happened through the power of propaganda.
Actual footage from Tiananmen square as covered by the CPC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8dqOuHqcBQ
https://youtu.be/7bl_cyYHwNQ
Explanation of what happened https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/06/02/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-fiction-and-propaganda/Translation of official government explanation
https://www.mango-press.com/report-on-stopping-unrest-and-quelling-counter-revolutionary-riots/Tankman full vid
https://youtu.be/GRb4VY2dU4cYeah, a bunch of people run up and push him out of hte way of the tanks. And no one ever talks about how he climbed up on to the tank to have a chat with the tank commander, then climbed down, and absolutely nothing happened to him. Imagine climbing on to a cop MRAP or APC in the US.
My headcannon is that the tank commander was his kid and he climbed up there to discuss what they were having for dinner.
Or if tou happened to be walking through the quad when the national guard opened fire on student demonstrators totally unprovoked as happened to that girl at Kent state
They tried to go around him multiple times, then when they realized he was just gonna block their way, they decided to stop so they wouldn’t accidentally crush him lol. That’s authoritarian.
There’s a Parenti line something like “the evil 1984 authoritarian CCCP USSR… broke up without major bloodshed”
Hah. That’s true. Pretty much all of the millions of early deaths and all the suffering that occured during the destruction of the cccp was down to capitalist looting.
EV_Dabs supercut link anyone? I know the original uploads got deleted, but I though someone reuploaded them under a new account.
What is that and was it supposed to be a reply to me? I’m confused lol
Sorry, I’ve seen a video linked here a few times that’s pretty much exactly your comment, so I assumed you might have seen it too. I thought it was from a prolific user (Eugene_V_Dabs) that posted here a while back, but I don’t see it in the linked archive (I may have overlooked it, the titles are not easy to parse for content).
Hopefully I can find the link eventually, and I won’t seem so weird.
This one? https://streamable.com/unjnw9
Ah I understand now, thank you!
Eugene_V_Dabs was a poster here who did awesome short agitprop videos.
One of the videos he published was a cops running over crowds supercut IIRC, probably what prompted the question.
The only famous video/image 99.9% of all Americans see of it is tank man NOT getting run over by a tank, and even then so many of them will be like “um yeah you don’t want to know what happens after the video cuts off” but the full video DOESNT CUT OFF AND HE JUST WALKS AWAY UNHARMED.
The ones that have seen the full thing all say “but then he was disappeared afterwards” with no evidence and everyone just totally believes it because they just believe that’s what China does.
The guy gets escorted by what looks like bystanders concerned about his well-being. But if you ask redditors, they were undercover agents who took him to a black site to execute him even though he was just a guy coming home from shopping and not an activist lol. It’s the equivalent of an american cop killing a random student because he happened to stop by to ask a cop what the protests are about - which is more likely to happen than the tank man being killed
Pretty much all lib claims about it can be debunked by two minutes on Wikipedia, which is generally a pretty anti-China source itself. Goes to show they’ve done literally zero research.
Yeah. I got in to this with some people last year and I was like “Fucker even Wikipedia admits the truth now!”. It’s so frustrating.
Here’s a good aggregation of sources, many of the mainstream western press:
https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/06/02/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-fiction-and-propaganda/
some of the lib-friendly sources used:
https://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/
Thank you! Just to add even more sources regarding the reality of the 6-4 incident, here is a carrd with a whole slew of good links with descriptions. Some are redundant with the links you posted, but there are a lot of others, including things like the full “Tank Man” video and a section with “Mentions in State-Owned Media In China [refuting the “censor” narrative].” I believe our comrade @[email protected] put it together (along with other ones on Xinjiang, DPRK, and the Holodomor).
That Xinjiang one is outdated and has a few mistakes and the Holodomor one uses a video that is now private and was incomplete to begin with.
@[email protected] care to elaborate how this is “racist and batshit”?
deleted by creator
Over/under on how many Winnie the Pooh memes this guy has posted today?
Framing this.
Well see white people good and other people bad, it’s actually literally that easy because that’s what liberal democracy looks like
If I had to take a guess based on my own past as a dumbass radlib who believed anti China bullshit I’d say he’s trying to claim that by not listening to Chinese people who claim it happened we’re ignoring their voices and that makes us racist against Chinese people even though he’s the one who actually hates China
See in his mind he thinks every single Chinese person who knows it didn’t happen is brainwashed and they just don’t know the truth so it’s OK for him to not listen to any of them, also he believes that it’s physically impossible for him to be racist by virtue of being a liberal
So yeah, very tangled mess of brainworms but I think I sorted them out
I can’t believe I used to think like this and consider myself smart for it
There’s a legit thing where “smart” people can be more susceptible to confirmation bias because they’re skilled at finding patterns in information, but that doesn’t mean the pattern is necessary real or significant. “Intelligence” (i am skeptical of the concept of a single intelligence trait) doesn’t necessarily protect you from weird cognitive stuff.
And the gotcha libs are like "i ran up to a random person in Beijing, shoved a microphone in their face, and started interogating them about 20th century politics! They got uncomfortable and left! That proves [fascist screeching]
dutch redditor takes time away from busy blackface schedule to call out racism
almost spit beer on my keyboard.
Beat me to it
I thought this was a comment on the racist and batshit students https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_anti-African_protests which lead to the Tiananmen square protests!
But no just a fedditor
- Being mean to Redditors is anti-white racism, the worst kind of racism.
- It is batshit because it disagrees with what the average western treatboy idiot believes.
Thats easy. China bad sweety, dont u know?
“He maybe wasn’t ran over by a tank, but lets not discount the possibility that we actually universe shifted, and we’re originally from a timeline where I was always correct. look up the Mandela effect.”
We Mandela effected from the universe trampled the tanks! Wait i guess he did actually run over the tank.
If anyone wants a good example of this brainworm freshly-regurgitated by our .World friends: https://lemmy.world/comment/10437862
Tankies, famous for pretending Tank Man media exists only in the form of one picture. Also one of them says “Peking” for some fucking reason.
Oh god this entire thread is full of gems
These people are not socialists. It’s all just right wing agitprop. It’s extremely obvious.
I assume hexbear is just the russian troll factory.
I can read Russian and I sometimes read Russian media and it uses almost exactly the same topics for their people. There is a new one that they started to repeat recently and it’s that Zelensky is an illegitimate president, because his term has ened.
It’s weird that those forums are in English, reading the insane takes and rhetoric. I also noticed many of the accounts are just prolific posters, making the community seem small to me. Also saw an account with a trans flag, which is surprising they would accommodate such a person or such a person would have those weird views on lemmygrad.
The utility is that they use hexbear and .ml as intro exercises before they promote the trolls to Facebook or reddit.
Last part is true and even more insane/sad because these people are all terminally online gossip mongers that Pol Pot would have immediately executed.
You own a computer? You don’t work in the fields? You wear glasses?
Yep, literally executed.
There is a new one that they started to repeat recently and it’s that Zelensky is an illegitimate president, because his term has ened.
Never seen this on here lol. But you’d think these dweebs would be hand wringing about term limits.
Last part is true and even more insane/sad because these people are all terminally online gossip mongers that Pol Pot would have immediately executed.
I love this because they somehow concluded we support Pol Pot and not that he was a US/China backed psychopath. They always talk about Pol Pot but they never talk about who kicked his ass and ended his genocide. It just stopped out of magic.
If anyone still remembered the Brady Bunch I’d make a joke comparing the “Marsha Marsha Marsha!” line to “Russia russia russia!”
Obsession with a plot!
There is a new one that they started to repeat recently and it’s that Zelensky is an illegitimate president, because his term has ened.
Help me out what’s it called when an elected official doesn’t give up power after their term ends
Zelensky is an illegitimate president, because his term has ened.
Isn’t that like… The basics of how a democratic mandate works?
Not that I’ve ever seen it as a topic here but still. If Rishi Sunak continues as
presidentPM beyond his term time I’m calling him illegitimate. In fact I’m calling him illegitimate now and forever because we literally never got to vote for the fuck. He has/had no mandate.EDIT: Fuck me libs jump to the dumbest conclusions over the smallest shit.
Rishi… President? Yea, I don’t think you’re front the UK.
Yea, I don’t think you’re front the UK
doesn’t seem like you are either
Autocorrect… What’s his excuse?
Awoo [she/her]
What’s his excuse?
Don’t be a dickhead. The pronouns are literally right there in front of your face.
That’s why he’s an illegitimate president.
Rishi Sunak is not my president!
Lmao I was running on 36 hours of being awake when I posted that. I currently reside in Woking if you’re wondering, but only for 2 more weeks or I wouldn’t be saying that here lmao.
Also a mod over on /r/greenandpleasant, probably banned you at least once if this is the kind of conclusion you jump to over stupid shit.
Term limits aren’t very indicative of democracy. If someone keeps requesting someone to lead beyond a nominal limit, is it not undemocratic to reject it? I still think a mental/age limit should be in place though.
I still think a mental/age limit should be in place though.
I think any functioning and sensible democracy would not require one. The problem that the US has with geriatrics is a problem of a malfunctioning bourgeoise-democracy. It’s underperforming as a “democracy” even for the bourgeoise because of this.
The us has term limits specifically because what’s his ass kept winning and wasn’t fashy enough.
Oh yeah, near the bottom some dumbass claims people here think the same of Mao, Pol Pot, and Putin!!
We’re mainly just fans of leaders who wore a hat at least once
I don’t make the rules.The 5 heads of communism
Marx, Mao, Pol Pot, Putin, Obama
You guys are getting promoted to Facebook and reddit?
The scary concept is the idea that either Facebook or Reddit is a promotion!
Xi please don’t promote me just leave me as a lowly Hexbear-only peon
deleted by creator
racists, imperialists, and hoi4 players
ＢＯＲＮ ＴＯ ＤＩＥ WORLD IS A FUCK 鬼神 Kill Em All 1989 I am trash man 410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS
Haha enjoy getting banned from the internet
We talking about the reddit thread from today? https://old.reddit.com/r/Art/comments/1d7xfil/why_tyrannies_will_not_prevail_andre_ryerson/
It’s truth or falsehood frankly does not matter to a lot of people who believe this. It confirms their world view and emotionally feels truer than the actual events themselves, which are well documented if they should care to know.
Lol and the concept of brainwashing was invented by the US because they needed to explain why US troops in Korea were defecting, and why defectors and captured soldiers were explaining the war crimes the US committed. “They were brainwashed!”
My favourite bit is when Wikipedia itself is like “the 10,000 claim was made by one dude who basically instantly retracted it and claimed the still unplausibly high number of 2,000”.
Also, the Tank Man photographer talks about the protestors throwing molotov cocktails and beating police officers to death.
And the whole “China pretends it didn’t happen”…they have official death estimates. 300 people. The US have their own estimate. 900 people. But no matter the number, it was much fewer than the protest leaders had hoped for.
To quote one of the protest leaders “What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes” - Chai Ling
By the way, that person is alive and well running a firm that fires people for not praying at work.
Chai Ling is great, there is a lot more from that interview where she just openly displays what an unhinged monster she is, like when she adds to that part that the students are stupid and unworthy of her sacrifice, which is why she plans to escape (and though she didn’t leave quite as quickly as she seemed to plan, she did leave quickly enough that she wasn’t around for when the “massacre” would have happened)
Oh! And it’s also important to note that it was her interviews with western outlets following fleeing the conflict that produced the “tanks mulching corpses” story
Sounds to me like she was an early example of a Yeonmi Park, where you get famous for a thing that everyone is primed to hate and then every time you talk about it you have to one up the previous time you talked about it.
YP is a refinement. Chai Ling was talking wild shit from the jump, YP escalated over time like you say.
It seems like she would’ve committed a student massacre herself if she had access to weapons lol.
the protestors
It needs to be made clear; The insurgents were a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the student movement, a few hundred, maybe a few thousand people out of hundreds of thousands of activists across the country. They were not at all representative of the '89 protest movement. Chai Ling wasn’t a protest leader, she was just some CIA backed asshole and she and her goons bullied their way up to the PA and took it over. They did not represent the student movement or Tianamen Square. It must be stressed that the movement was mostly in opposition to Dengist market liberalization. Folks wanted to preserve communism against marketization of the economy. A secondary factor was a desire to create a more permissive social environment that reflected communist views of gender equality and allowed young people more freedom to express themsevles. Again, not because of government repression, but because they viewed contemporary chinese culture as very staid and conservative in a way that was not in line with their communist values.
Wrong. They wanted freedom to wear jeans and buy 50 flavors of industrial sized mayonnaise
The Tiananmen Square massacre didn’t happen because in reality David Hasselhof sang on the Berlin Wall and East Turkmenistan became free
It’s always funny to fire back at Redditors that the vast majority of the protestors weren’t mad about communism, they were mad that things weren’t communist enough.
Got dang maoists.
By the way, that person is alive and well running a firm that fires people for not praying at work.
Lmao. A perfect candidate for American citizenship.
Just say no to terrorism.By the way, that person is alive and well running a firm that fires people for not praying at work.
It’s always the fucking Christians
To quote one of the protest leaders “What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes” - Chai Ling
By the way, that person is alive and well running a firm that fires people for not praying at work.
Wait, you mean the ebil CCP didn’t send her to a camp??
Thank god the CIA stumbled upon her situation by happenstance and with no previous connections to her, managed to ferry her and her co-conspirators out of the country just in time after only having just heard of her plight 😌
If there’s one thing America loves, it’s immigrants seeking asylum
She, along with other
Assetsstudent leaders fled before the clash actually happened.Operation yellow bird
Racist name, I know.
What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed
Sounds like
starting shitYeah she and her cronies were literally a CIA op. Like a “It’s on the CIA website” CIA op.
The army psyop unit released an edgy trailer for their unit, and there was a segment where the text says something like “we are behind it all” and it shows a montage of world conflicts, including the Tiananmen protests. Of course, that itself could be a psyop to make people paranoid, but it’s pretty obvious that competing superpowers would hop on each other’s conflicts.
Suppose it was 5000 deaths. You would still need to do it 200 times to match the amount of ppl usa killed in a single war.
To quote one of the protest leaders “What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes” - Chai Ling
This only works when the people also think it was unjustified.
Every revolution in history has one of these instigating moments, including colour revolutions. Most recently Ukraine’s moment in 2014 was the sussy sniper moment that has all kinds of evidence pointing towards far right shooters being involved and covered up. Even the February Revolution had a moment like this when the palace guard shot all the unarmed protestors.
The key point is that it’s unarmed protestors that didn’t deserve it. When it’s a situation where people understandable grit their teeth and say “yeaaaaaah but the protestors hung cops and burned them alive”
it doesn’t work.The people need to be enraged and believe the government NEEDS to be overthrown for it to work, if people think the protestors kinda brought it on themselves they don’t enrage in the same way. The CIA and fascists pull these false flags off all the time, I can’t think of a single incident in history where the left has.
The USSR had ties with unions and communist parties and leftist terrorists. But I don’t think they ever planned any false flags to help those movements. Like the Italian militants supported by the USSR were doing bombings and killings in response to the mob and fascists who attacked first. I don’t think even westerners have claimed the USSR faked any terrorist threats to bolster their factions. “Whataboutism” is used by liberals to cry about leftists because all they had to do was put up a mirror. Not saying intelligence agencies never lie, but it seemed that spreading propaganda to a diverse country whose minorities suffer was sufficient
But there have been some claims of false flags. For example, a KGB defector claiming that the KGB planted a story about the Vatican knowing about the holocaust and not doing anything about it.
whataboutism 
The people need to be enraged and believe the government NEEDS to be overthrown
And like, the vast majority of people in China at that time had seen their life spans double and gone from living in old style rural farmhouses to communes and apartment complexes with a then-modern quality of life. It’s no wonder that the majority of protestors were against Deng’s liberalizations, they had lived the success of the Mao-era economy and didn’t want to fuck things up - Chinese people alive now would probably go to bat to defend the Dengist economic system in a similar way if the CPC signaled massive reforms.
