Exactly, this is about “Decorum” and their silly religion about following “Da Rules of Politics” it has nothing to do with the country.
I think your take on his perspective is a dangerous one. You sound willing to “do anything to save democracy”. That’s exactly what wild Trump supporters would say, and it’s just as patently immoral and impossible.
No, no it is NOT “just as immoral” to fight against fascists as doing a fascist takeover… What a moronic, childish, black & white take…
But it is immoral to become a fascist in order to fight against fascism. And that’s the proposal on the table; Biden should use his newly found presidential immunity to do “official” acts, like have all of the Republican leadership assassinated, or jailed in Gitmo, or I don’t even know. If Biden wins by killing democracy, then democracy is still dead, even though we have a less-evil leader at the helm.
But that’s still an ignorant black & white position. It is NOT, in fact, immoral, to do a good thing with unjustly acquired power. It is NOT immoral to suddenly have unjust power, but it is to seek it, or use it for immoral ends
There’s no way to use that power in a way that’s just though, because the power itself is unjust. Any use of that power necessarily goes against the concept of this being a nation of laws, where no person has absolute authority to enforce their will at the expense of others.
Of course, if you don’t truly believe in democracy as a concept, then the idea of using an immoral power in a “good” way seems fine.
If you don’t work by the same rules as others, they win. This is the real world, not a fairy tale.
Doing GOOD things is good. Period. It’s the same question as, “if you had a billion dollars”. If your answer is, “nothing because I did not earn that money”, you are nothing but a fool.
Then you don’t believe in democracy; you believe that fascism is fine as long as it’s your fascism.
End of story.
No, actually. In fact, working under the same set of rules is distinctly NOT fascist. At all. Period.
Fascism is rules for the out-group that are conveniently not applicable or simply not enforced on the in-group.
So, tell me. How does playing by the SAME rules equate to fascism? Your black & white thinking is quite sad.
Trumpets want to save their Republic. It’s rather a different thing.
And there’s no way one side has valid concerns and the other is fucking crazy.
Both sides, says one side.
I find that a very common sentiment around here. Fight fascisim with fascisim.
Where are you getting ‘do anything’ from? All OP has said is maybe the octogenerian should retrire.
What is the exact method a president like trump would use to “end democray”?
Don’t know the exact method, but I’m pretty sure appointing people that agree with him to the SCOTUS which will later rule that he’s got absolute immunity for official acts is one of the steps.
Do you see how the fact that you cant point to a path for these things to happen is the problem? The thing about immunity is just confirmation for what always has been, its not a new ruling. When they pretend like this is something new they are lying to you, its just now formalized.
Presidential immunity is not a new thing. It’s not just me saying that. A lot of people who are experts in the law are saying that, including the dissenting justices.
The president can now do everything up to and including having their opponent assassinated by the military. There’s a good video about this here.
Legal eagle is a biased person, he has bought into the propaganda just like all the rest of you guys.
The fact that someone insufficiently familiar with law can’t point to a path for these things doesn’t mean that someone with more knowledge can’t. Also, how are you so sure it isn’t you who’s being lied to?
Because I can look at what all the presidents in my lifetime have done and have zero consequences to. Trying to pretend that just now they cant get away with doing whatever they want is just silly. How many wars/conflicts have the presidents started on their own the few decades?
Any, whatever he does, it would be valid an de would be immune
What terrible thing would he do that he would be immune from?
Literally anything… Have his opponents assassinated, openly take bribes in exchange for killing regulations or selling pardons or us citizenship… Anything
Sure, the president has been killing people and starting wars for decades and nothing happens. And how do you think all presidents are rich after being public “servants” for their whole lives? They will only get in trouble if its for personal gain directly.
Order the military to assassinate his opponent.
They cant do that without going to prison… They have already killed american citizens around the world, this is nothing new.
According to whom? This was literally the example presented for this case and SCOTUS rules it was A-OK
Says the constitution and the three branches of government. And that was not what the SCOTUS said, that is the bulshit they are selling you.
They cant do that without going to prison…
How would they go to prison? The highest court in the country just said that they have immunity.
No they didnt… They would get impeached and then stand trial.
How’s that gone so far?
Here’s a writer of Project 2025 saying there won’t bloodshed as long as you don’t resist: https://youtu.be/-OdM4_WO2wk
OMG, Sam Seder, really? That dude is just a rage porn creator. And I dont really care what people claim or what way you guys are misleading. What is the exact method?
And I dont really care what people claim or what way you guys are misleading.
I also like to shout into a void for a sense of validation.
You guys still havent told me how anything is going to happen
You’re right, I answered the question I wished was asked: whether they’re planning bloodshed.
Are you claiming they are planning to overthrow the government violently?
With the way Biden is going… They probably won’t need to 🤦♂️
Cute
It’s always gradual up until the very end. They chip away at your sense of normal by changing little things. It starts with censorship. They delete the ideas they don’t like. Then they eliminate free speech. Punish protesters. Increase militarization of police. Add a few laws about “appropriate behavior” you know, dress codes, curfews, male escorts, mandatory church attendance, et viola, authoritarian state.
This is kind of funny/sad. Do you realize you just listed out the steps the left has taken in the last 10 years?
Who’s banning the fucking library books, Cap?
Do you think all library books should be available to all kids in public schools?
No
Then what is so bad with removing books they see as inappropriate for children?
There’s nothing evidence based or beneficial about the way they’re banning books. They’re just censoring what they don’t like.
Obvious troll is obvious so I’m not going to waste time on you.
Oh gotcha, I point out reality so it must be a troll. It would be good for you to actually learn what the fuck is happening and not just repeat the propaganda you read on the internet.
Buddy, you didn’t point out shit, you gave a presupposition. If you want to point something out, point out the legislation behind each of the “steps the left has taken in the last few years.”
I never said there was legislation, and in fact if they can accomplish steps without legislation then thats even better for them.
Step 1 - Can you say mainstream ideas that conservative believe on social media and not get kicked off most platforms? No, you will get booted off most platforms.
Step 1 - Can you say mainstream ideas that conservative believe on social media and not get kicked off most platforms? No, you will get booted off most platforms.
Heh I know I’m starting a parallel reply chain, but I suddenly remembered this meme today. This is really the crux of the problem.
If we’re not talking legislation, then I don’t see how it’s all that important in a discussion about democracy. If a social media company chooses freely to decide they don’t want to platform someone, where’s the problem? That’s freedom, baby. I have very few carveouts where I will not support someone’s actual right to speech, but I do not think forcing any private entity to platform speech they are against is all that democratic.
I do not even agree that many of these companies are really all that quick to deplatform people either. There are many conservative voices on social media. The examples that come to mind where individuals were kicked off certain sites generally involve explicit undue vitriol against other people (individuals and communities), often wishing harm unto them. If this is not what you mean by the “mainstream ideas that conservative believe” that people are being kicked off platforms for (I sure hope not)…then what else? I mean, who is being booted off of platforms for saying they think the government is too big, or that they think x politician is doing a poor job, etc.?
Step 1 - Can you say mainstream ideas that conservative believe on social media and not get kicked off most platforms? No, you will get booted off most platforms.
Why doesn’t he just go “a vote for me is a vote for Kamala” like a good octogenarian instead of trying to fool everyone into thinking he will last another 4 years…
Why doesn’t he just go “a vote for me is a vote for Kamala”
Because the US electorate is both racist and sexist. Reminding them that if Biden dies or is incapacitated that the country would be taken over by a non-white woman would probably drive votes to Trump. If his VP was a white protestant man, he could probably get away with reminding people how good his VP was.
But, I do think you’re on to something in that his focus shouldn’t be on himself, it should be on his team. Tell voters that Trump is a narcissist, that his cabinet will be full of ass-kissers. Remind them of how many of Trump’s cabinet were yes-men and still got fired because they didn’t kiss his ass enough. Show how they did essentially nothing over 4 years despite control over the house and senate. Then, contrast that with the effectiveness of his people. For example, how Trump talked a big game, but accomplished nothing. But, Biden’s officials are actually suing the big tech companies for abusing their monopolies. A lot of the things Biden’s picks are doing are wildly popular among the American people, but most people aren’t aware of the accomplishments.
People need to chill the fuck out. We all know what we are getting with either candidate. This isnt the fuckin game of thrones where some forgotten character hidding in the old woods is guna wheel out and save the fucking day. If Biden loses to Trump the only people to blame are the ones who didn’t go out to vote. If Trump loses to Biden the only people to blame are the ones who didn’t go out and vote.
I don’t give a fuck what the crackpots are guna say after the loss. There will prolly be protests, riots, panick but this will be the fucking end of the road the the shit show.
No large mass is storming the capital again. No large protests will errupt into riots. The SCOTUS is set for the foreseeable future. Noone has the fuckiny overhead to cause a ruckus muchless miss work anymore. People are too fucking exausted paying out the dickhole just to afford the 300% pandemic price increases that are here to stay.
Our parents left us for the summer with the grandparents and yeah maybe it was our first time seeing 70’s porn bush and stash, smoking a backwoods, and sipping on some moonshine that mightve just been kerosene, those of us who survived will guaranteed never be the same but we still grew older, wiser and hopefully developed a sense of fuckin regret for everything that brought us to this point. It’s a huge country with huge flaws but it doesn’t mean we can’t still be friendly neighbors who wave to each other 6 times a year.
Well the mushrooms are kicking in so ima go and try to tell which fireflies are real and which ones are just reflecting off the pond water. No idea where I was going with this.
By that standard, as long as the Republicans push a shitty candidate, voters have no choice but to pick the Democrat. Gotta do better than that if you wanna sway people’s actions on election day.
Wat.
One of the last remaining, not totally burned out hippies just told us to calm down, then yelled a bunch of boomer nonsense platitudes and gripes before admitting they’d taken mushrooms and were just screaming into the void.
I respect it. Maybe we all need to take more psychedelics and scream nonsense into the void.
Hahahaha I’m 36 and can’t stand jam bands lol
Edit: rest is spot on tho🍻
I like how this began to slowly make less and less sense.
It reads a little like AI generated text. Be careful thinking too much about that if you’re on shrooms though!
I’ve never taken shrooms, but I think the right phrase is… Have a good trip!
That was a trip. I’ll up vote you for the effort and the rollercoaster ride.
If Biden loses to Trump the only people to blame are the ones who didn’t go out to vote. If Trump loses to Biden the only people to blame are the ones who didn’t go out and vote.
Funny, I would’ve thought that the people voting for a candidate are the ones responsible for the candidate getting elected.
Hahahah I see what ya did there. I would have lost it last night if I read this while listening to the stars shine.
Alice and Bob. Alice wins. She says that Bob can only blame himself for neglecting his training, but Bob blames Alice and says that if she wouldn’t have ran so fast, he could have won.
Who is right and who is wrong?
While it is true that Bob would have won if Alice was slow enough, it doesn’t mean that Alice should be carrying any blame here. She wanted to win the race. Bob is the one who did something wrong, because he did not want to lose and still didn’t do what he can in order to win.
If candidate A gets elected, his voters don’t need to blame themselves for getting him elected. That’s what they wanted to do. Or, at least, that’s what the realistic option they preferred over the other realistic options.
If he does something they don’t like, and it’s something that the other candidate wouldn’t have done, only then should they blame themselves for getting him into power. And even then - they should balance that against the bad things (in their opinion) candidate B would have done that candidate A wouldn’t.
But for the very act of him getting their candidate elected? They should not feel guilty for that. They should feel pride - or at least, as much pride as casting a vote into a ballot can entitle.
The ones who should feel blame are the ones who wanted candidate B elected and did not vote. They could have done something to contribute to the outcome they prefer - they could have voted. By their inaction, they have contributed to a result they did not want.
Alice and Bob. Alice wins. She says that Bob can only blame himself for neglecting his training, but Bob blames Alice and says that if she wouldn’t have ran so fast, he could have won.
This analogy has literally nothing to do with anything. What’s happening is that Bob is saying that if he loses, it’s not because of himself or because of Alice, but rather because of Charlie, who isn’t even involved.
But for the very act of him getting their candidate elected? They should not feel guilty for that. They should feel pride - or at least, as much pride as casting a vote into a ballot can entitle.
Why should they feel guilt or pride? According to your insane “logic,” they bear zero responsibility for getting the candidate they voted for elected. The reason a candidate wins, apparently, has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of votes they receive, but rather, it’s entirely the people who don’t participate in the process who determine the outcome, somehow.
Of course the number of votes matter. Not voting affects the number of votes, because if the non-voter would have vote - the number of votes would be different. The responsibility is shared between all the people who get the right to vote. No one argue that this includes the ones who actually voted - the argument is about whether this includes the non-voters.
No one argue that this includes the ones who actually voted
Is that a typo? Surely you mean that no one would argue that it doesn’t include the ones who actually voted.
Right. Sorry. Was more along the lines of “no one argues with the fact that …”, which pretty much means the same thing as your correction.
The comment I originally responded to said:
If Biden loses to Trump the only people to blame are the ones who didn’t go out to vote. If Trump loses to Biden the only people to blame are the ones who didn’t go out and vote.
So we agree then that that position is ridiculous and that no one should be claiming that.
I hope your sunrise was spectacular over the water.
deleted by creator
Maybe he can commune with the machine elves and tell us their wisdom.
I stay away from machines while tripping ever since I lost the tip of my coworkers finger.
I hope you find it.
I don’t get why people are getting so incensed with this answer. It’s an election, it’s not fully in his control. If he thinks he’s the best candidate to beat Trump, and he runs his campaign the best way possible, and he still loses, then that is democracy and the will of the people has spoken and there was nothing he could have done.
It IS about saving democracy, and bodily autonomy, and the Supreme Court appointments, and he isn’t saying that it isn’t. He’s just saying all he can do is run the best campaign he can, and if the people still vote Trump then he accepts that decision.
You can quibble with his assumptions here, he might not be the best candidate to beat Trump anymore, but that’s the right answer.
They are asking him how he felt and he’s giving the same answer a fucking middle schooler would give about losing a track race. Don’t you think he should have other feelings and be a little more concerned?? He could be executed by Trump, or he and his whole family imprisoned. He is so far gone mentally he can’t even recognize this. It’s shocking and horrifying. It’s okay he’s accepting the “will of the people,” but it’s a very very very shallow answer for a very serious topic, to the point where I question his mental capacity.
You should question his mental capacity for numerous other reasons other than this answer. And the fact that this guy is the only reply to Trump, should had forced you to question the mental capacity of the majority of the population
Girl… I am
But I need things to be edgy
This interview really sealed in the flavor of debate failure.
Can we not have an existential threat to democracy every four years? That would be neat. Here’s an idea, actually fucking punish people who already tried to overthrow the government, and have promised to do it again. It’s utterly crazy that he is in the running again instead of behind bars.
Now you know how two thirds of Germans felt in 1933.
Hitler should have been hanged for trying to overthrow the government, but instead got just a cozy few months in prison (where he wrote Mein Kampf).
Also a reminder that the Germans who couldn’t be bothered to vote in that election didn’t get a chance to do so again for over a decade. And that was assuming they were even still alive after the holocaust and war.
That’s not how Hitler rose to power.
This idea of blaming voters and not the system and the parties who pushed to do anything to punish the communists means you don’t get how this time around is already rhyming and you are blame the wrong people because it’s easier.You don’t think Hitler was elected? Because that was their point. Regardless of the broader forces at work, how is it not the responsibility of the electorate to elect the right government?
I do not believe he was attempting to blame anybody though. In my view, he is warning us ( well, Americans — I am not one ). He is saying that there is one chance to defend the future and, if you do not take it, you may be denied another opportunity.
Hitler didn’t legally rise to power. He never once had a majority before abolishing democracy. He instead was instated by the conservative centrist party, in order to “control” him.
His party and their paramilitary arm then illegally detained members of the opposition, showed up armed and blocked the exits during the parliamentary election for the emergency laws that gave them far-reaching powers, and then took control of the country in a way that even violated those new emergency laws they themselves had pushed through.The problem wasn’t the voters, the problem was the conservatives who didn’t stop him and actually enabled him, hoping he’d push through some undemocratic reforms they wanted as well, pull the workers’ votes, prevent communism, and then fuck off.
The parallels to Trump and the Republicans are astounding.
That’s not quite true. The NSDAP did get the largest percentage of the vote, just not the absolute majority. So they needed other parties to form a coalition for a government. The conservative party and their figurehead Von Hindenburg made that move thinking they could control the Nazis this way.
Hitler still won the election, democratically (although their thugs did intimidate a lot of people to vote for them).
Hitler still won the election, democratically (although their thugs did intimidate a lot of people to vote for them).
Those 2 statements contradict each other.
Just a reminder. Nazis did a trial run for Holocaust on political prisoners. In Germany.
Also, how a lot of the Germans who did bother to vote got dragged into the madness despite it, because too many of their countrymen were idiots who could be misled by the obvious lies of a fascist.
And that’s more punishment than trump ever got, or will ever get.
You mean he didn’t learn his lesson?
Can we not have an existential threat to democracy every four years?
No, we live in a democracy.
I know it’s difficult to understand for people coming of age in this era, but elections used to be pretty routine things, and the peaceful transition of power was a point of pride for our nation.
oh no, that’s is something that a first world country would do, like brasil, be happy in your corporatocracy that’s how your system is designed anyway, there’s a very fucking good reason why any democratic country outlaw company donation to politican party
Not an American and I would normally agree with your “every 4 years” thing. But given the Supreme Court decision on Presidential Immunity, you absolutely have an existential threat to democracy right now.
Not only in the US either. This could topple the whole world order.
I would welcome the old level of threat with open arms at this point.
Of course not. We’re discussing a politician.
It doesn’t matter what politician. It’s about them, money, and their ego.
Why is no one worried about the obvious decay of democracy under Biden and the DNC? 2020 was a very obvious act of anti-democracy when they messed with the prelims, no one got all bent out of shape. Just all piled on board. No one Saud a peep when they chose Harris was VP either, even though she was (is) terrible.
I can’t take anyone seriously who is crying about losing our democracy. We haven’t had democracy recently. The DNC did everything they could to prop up people who would do their bidding, and ignored the voters until the voters had no choice but to fall in line.
Personally I think this whole thing is a psyop, but if I were to humor it for a moment: he’s exactly right. There’s no reason to not vote for him over Trump, age really means nothing when it’s against the literal reincarnated Adolph Hitler. If Trump gets elected, it’s not Biden’s fault, it’s ours.
How is Donald Trump ‘literal reincarnated Adolf Hitler’?
It’s almost like that person doesn’t know the difference between “literal” and “figurative”.
Who do the talking heads think should run instead of him?
Apparently the VP again like how Humphrey beat Nixon in 68.
Jesus fuckimg Christ this is NOT what we need right now. Motherfucker you are a King now. It’s time to put your god damn immunity at work and fix this country.
What crimes should he commit?
You know what kind.
Sex crimes. Naughty, naughty sex crimes.
Yo why is Biden suddenly orange?
bad lighting of the set
Oh God.
Is the spray tan contagious?
Remember when rich people all wore ridiculous powdered wigs? Well now I know how that silly kind of trend starts.
I would REALLY enjoy it if spray on Cheeto dust became the rage for the magats. Maybe someone will start airbrushing that into photos. One step closer to OompaLoompaism.
