Wait is ‘folks’ not acceptable or is this commenter being hyperbolic? This has been in my vocabulary for my whole life.
Theyre being hyperbolic, you’re fine
There used to be (might still be?) a “folx” contingent but I think most people have concluded (correctly in my book) that “folks” is perfectly gender neutral as is
How could one misgender someone if they’re speaking directly to them? 2nd person (you) doesn’t have a gender. Dumbass question.
If it’s speaking in 3rd person, it could be a fair enough question, not everyone speaks English well and with dumbass boomers meming about pronouns there’s some uncertainty out there, which means one might not realise we just use the word “they” for people we don’t know the gender of and we have been doing this for centuries.
“Someone lost ____ umbrella, would you give it to the lost&found so ____ can retrieve it, should ____ come looking?”
Fill in the gapsthat construction is why we invented pronouns and it’s kinda clunky to not use them (and we should suck up the clunkiness if someone is none/use name)
Yeah I’m really happy we have pronouns, I was moreso talking about IRL stuff. I always bring up that phrase as an example when boomer family members complain about pronouns
“Someone lost an umbrella, would you give it to the lost&found so the loser can retrieve it, should the umbrella-less clod come looking?”
Rude, but completely genderless
Some languages have gendered 2nd (and first) person pronouns. And even English has gendered honorifcs (Sir/Madam Mr/Mrs, etc)
Didn’t think of that, whoops!
Honest question; Is all this concern and ‘worry’ about misgendering kind of the problem? I don’t want to misgender but in a random meeting with some one i just met if I accidentally misgender and am corrected I’ll apologize and not do it again. (Also working on just dropping gendered terms)
I feel like ppl are trying to make it seem like crazy hard to do.
I’ve accidently dead named friends that I meet before transitioning. I apologize.
Am I the asshole?
It’s so weird how cis people handle their fear of misgendering - I went in to the doc the other day, and the nurse was prefacing asking me about my pronouns with a long drawn out explanation about why they were asking. I told them they really don’t need to preface the question in a professional setting like that, it’s a normal question that you can just ask.
Its very odd to me, but i dont know how that people dont interact with trans people? Like, do they just not talk to people and even just exchange pleasantries? You should know when its safe to assume pronouns and when to ask, and trans people arnt an exclusively weird and defensive type of people that are just going to scream in your face when you ask what their pronouns are or get their pronouns wrong on accident.
Its fucking ridiculous propaganda that the rightwing has made it apparent that trans people are stereotyped as such and really just shows that people should talk to more people than that.
People need to chill out.
Exactly! Most people just think of some public freak out tiktac that was probably staged.
I don’t want to misgender but in a random meeting with some one i just met if I accidentally misgender and am corrected I’ll apologize and not do it again. (Also working on just dropping gendered terms)
Nah you’re good.
Sentiment matters. It only matters when someone intended it, or when someone is clearly not trying and has made the mistake many times even after being told. The latter gets a bit murky and comes down to effort.
I don’t think you’re an asshole or even did anything wrong, but yes it does hurt some people. Really depends on person to person but like, when you get misgendered it means you’re being perceived as the wrong gender. When everyone does this every day it absolutely grinds me down and just saps all hope from me.
Like, I have to go basically sit in my room and be like, will there ever be a time when I’m not just perceived as some man in a dress or something? It does hurt. And I don’t want people gendering me correctly to be some laborious process for them. I don’t want people to have to try. I know it’s not realistic
But also I definitely understand that it’s not the fault of the people perceiving me, it’s just reality.
Im trans. I have habitually called everyone “they” since I was like 5. Most people cis and trans alike, don’t really seem to care. People who do will tell me, and I make a mental note that I shouldn’t call that person they.
It’s that easy.
I think blanket acceptance of they/them in all instances where a preferred pronoun isn’t known should be pushed for and accepted but a lot of people disagree so
I think it’s a big PR fuck up honestly because people want like, a pattern, they want routine, they don’t want to have to figure out what is appropriate for each of the potentially hundreds of people they meet every day
And while it might “be easy” to just interact with people and if you misgender them, apologize and correct yourself (like other comments here), anybody who thinks that’s an okay state of affairs is basically not thinking at all about human psychology. Most people don’t want to be seen “as an asshole” for something that “isn’t their fault” so you get the exact sort of reaction you see in this twitter screenshot. People get mad when they’re put into a position of “you’re probably going to look like an asshole” and, to me, it seems like such a no brainer solution to say “gender neutral pronouns are always okay” because it gives people a safe place to start interacting from
Big agree
I’d prefer to be “they’d” over being asked, but in queer spaces, I’m okay with it.
The default “they” is just easiest for everyone involved. Its not reasonable to exchange pronouns in every single minor interaction with everybody.
None of these terminally online mfers has ever had to deal with being in a room with three dozen trans people and five dozen neopronouns. You can’t come up with a take like “pronoun tags are transphobic” if you’ve ever gone outside and met random trans strangers, ofc you need to introduce pronouns in some way in such a setting when there is a normal number of nonbinary people present and ofc nobody does that with a pronoun circle when it’s not one of these awkward self help group things where anybody is already sitting in a circle and has to do an awkward introduction, which is one of a grand total of two situations irl where i’ve ever been in a pronoun circle. That’s in spite of me hanging out with queer people constantly. And somehow, i do not run around constantly misgendering all the nonbinary people i know. The only way to have this kind of conversation in the first place is when you do not have to look the person you’re having it with in the face.
The same goes for the reply-hungry weirdo who doesn’t know any gender neutral ways to adress people besides using they / them pronouns. If you want to refer to somebody in an actually gender neutral way, you use the name or say “the person” if you do not know the name. It’s not hard. It’s as if that person has never met anybody who actually doesn’t use pronouns. Like, this site is full of people who have none / use name as a pronoun tag. This entire post was written without a single third person pronoun. How can people be this dense?
now that im sober im realizing this should probably be cw’d and nsfw tagged for misgendering discussion
Catboy ended up deleting his account.
Also put up a CW out of abundance of caution. This whole thing has been so stupid.
Skill issue, just be so well known your pronouns precede you
Alternatively, hire a guy to belt out your pronouns like hes reading royal titles
Honestly I’m drunk as hell right now (on company time). We have cool little stickers at our lgbt center
Honestly I’m drunk as hell right now (on company time)
me
kristinaDrinking on the clock
Got caught twice, once because a manager smelled beer on my breath right after a break, once because an asshole coworker tried to snitch on me. First time I was told I was gonna get fired if it happened again, second time I didn’t get fired because they can’t actually tell I am buzzed and I am too good at my job to actually follow through on the first threat lol.
Like motherfucker you try working the register 40 hours a week sober.
I used to be allowed to drink on the job as a bartender, one of the better perks of the job
Can’t do that now as a delivery driver but at least I always get free meals from the place I just delivered to, the beans were better last time but the mac and cheese is fantastic
Well to be fair if your job is driving you definitely should not drink while doing it lol.
My dream job is bartender. It’s so hard to get into though with zero experience. Like I worked one time as a bus boy 25 years ago and that is as close as I have ever been to breaking into that industry.
I think maybe when I get back from my Pine Ridge trip I might just try to find an entry point. Where I live you can make a FUCKLOAD of money as a bartender.
It’s a college/tourist town.
This is cool and good.
I don’t think it’s transphobic to they/them everyone until you know what their gender is but I totally get wanting people to assume my gender correctly. I want that pretty bad honestly. But like I don’t pass at all so If everyone did this they would probably misgender me constantly
This all started because Catboy removedry said that using “they/them” if you are unsure is perfectly reasonable and not necessarily transphobic.
We all know some people use it in a cynical way but the thing that kicked off this whole discourse was just about how to address people who you don’t know their preferred pronouns and it might not be safe or acceptable to just outright ask.
Edit: lol got
by the slur filter oops.Hot take, the slur filter doesn’t understand context, and as a result, clamps down on various kinds of queer slang. And I think that’s cringe.
Like, look at this section from My Gender Workbook by Kate Bornstien, where trans people are describing their experience of gender:
These are beautiful, amazing, and I absolutely adore every single one!
But the Hexbear slur filter would butcher these so bad, they’d read like a Papa Roach radio edit
Suffocation. No breathing. Don’t give a removed if I removed
subversive queermonger
-monger never disappoints, fucking gathering up all the queer into a big pile. for evil 
Catboy removedry
lmao
My grey matter refuses to process whatever is happening here. I will simply continue to not look at twitter.
Some binary and passing trans people get upset when they’re in queer spaces and asked for their pronouns or referred to as “they/them” before someone knows their pronouns because in non queer spaces, people assume their gender based off appearance and gender them appropriately (because theyre binary and passing). These people think even in queer spaces you should assume peoples gender based off appearance because it makes them personally feel good to be gendered correctly without having to explain themselves
This doesn’t go over well with non passing or non binary trans people for the obvious reasons
“Some of you might be misgendered, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take”
Okay I’m not that offline, I am a non binary and a trans people.I think I was happier when I did not understand that this Twitter® Screenshot™ is just binies getting up in arms over jack shit, again. Like hey, didn’t Contrapoints do exactly this bit about feelin sad people use they/them and wanting to get presumptively gendered correctly? Twitter needs new material.
Contrapoints
I didn’t have my glasses on and read this as “Constantinople” and was confused about what is being discussed here
didn’t Contrapoints do exactly this bit about feelin sad people use they/them and wanting to get presumptively gendered correctly?
i think that was one of these bits that’s secretly sincere.
Well
terrible bit tbh.
It disappointing but not surprising that some binary trans people are okay with transphobia if they benefit from it
Comprador shit
I’m 100% with you on this. I’d rather watch sword/fencing videos instead.
I envy your inner calm
Just ask for pronouns lmao
Or their name? Pretty easy not to misgender someone if you just use their name.
What if they have a gender neutral name, or a name in a language not yours, this is still assuming the gender based on the name
No just use name instead of pronoun
So “she’s the worst” becomes “Gary’s the worst”
That’s gonna make certain conversations in the English language unwieldily as fuck
You can use other names than Gary.
Gary should become a gender neutral pronoun.
The key word point is “certain conversations”, not all conversations. So its probably going to be fine most of the time.
You’re probably correct that most time, you’d figure out the persons pronouns before such a conversation came up. I’m just saying it’s not a good long term solution since the English language is pretty reliant on pronouns.
Fair point but it does seem we’re reliant on pronouns less out of necessity and more out of habit.
Some people are really good at just using names. It’s a skill.
Damn, I’m impressed. I know I’d struggle with it.
Honestly I struggle with remembering names so that strategy seems too advanced for me
Either I didn’t read it right or the other person edited it after I commented idk
o7 happens to the best of us comrade
y’all remember names?
Repetition is the key to remembering someone’s name
Yeah, there’s also peoples that use their name as their pronouns
on twitter
brb, building an orbital strike cannon that fires copies of Julia Serano’s Whipping Girl at people who post bad-faith pronoun discourse
some of the replies to that quoted tweet are amazing, “just pass harder, idiot” damn, thank you for the pro-tip ma’am, i haven’t considered that
How exactly do I “pass” as nonbinary?
According to many of the replies, we do, in fact, owe everyone androgyny
duck dynasty beard, skirt that is obviously not a kilt
/s
Well I don’t know about you, but my plan is to adorn my clothes with a shit ton of bells in reference to the single sentence description of the Sons of Frey in Gesta Danorum, which is to my knowledge the only surviving textual evidence of third-gender priests in pre-Christian Scandinavia. Of course most people wouldn’t get the reference but that’s their problem not mine
