She had interviewed and met both remotely and in person, this guy was merely an HR drone confirming her documentation. I was a little bent when she told me he had asked her to remove her blur filter “to have a look at her working environment, make sure it’s not cluttered” (something along those lines). No one else at this company requested such. Was he way out of line?
I should note, this is my PC in our living room and not where she will be working from. And this guy wants a look around our home?! Told my wife to bring this up once she’s settled in, ask HR if this is policy. She started today!
She thinks it’s a racism thing. I’m not so sure, but I don’t have any other explanation.
EDIT: Misread the post like an idiot.
She had already met them in person and will be working in the office 3 days a week. I understand the concern, but this is not that.
I get it. I misread the post earlier. If unblurring the background was useful to uncover anyone helping her during an interview then maybe, but it’s not. We do a lot of these and my clients have requirements like what I wrote before (when I misunderstood), but I have never come across someone objecting to a privacy setting like that. It’s fucking weird.
The post was about being asked to disable background blurring specifically.
Oops. Thanks for the heads up. I completely misread. That’s what I get for multi-tasking.
A large percentage of people in Human Resources are absolute idiots. They often use their own perspective as what the company should be doing.
Ask them politely where that rule is because you want to understand. If they cannot provide it, immediately share all the conversation with your manager.
It may lead to nothing. Or discovery that this HR guy seems to always ask women to unblur their cameras and now they got a sexism case on their hands.
I’ve put a shoji screen behind my workspace for these kind of situations. One client was really paranoid like that.
Aha! Japan detected!
My I-9 verification is birth certificate, so no photo. Not sure how unblurring would help? I’ve never done it remotely though. Wanting to see work environment isn’t so great. I set up for a video interview a while back by carefully positioning the camera so there was nothing interesting around or behind me. I had trouble getting the video working though, so we did a voice-only phone interview instead, which was much better anyway.
Why does she think it’s a racism thing?
No one else at this company requested such. Was he way out of line?
People who experience discrimination develop a sense for when someone is othering them. It’s not always correct, because it involves intuition, and you can misread people. But will still develop a sense for it.
Now, apply this to OP’s wife. OP says this about her:
If I hadn’t seen the blatant discrimination she’s faced job hunting, I’d be more skeptical. She’s Filipino, but that’s “Mexican” to many. When I say blatant, I mean to say heads would roll if we had some of this on camera. She’s mostly unhurt by these things, just figures that’s the way of the world. But damn. One lady asked if she was Asian and was visibly appalled. Another said she would have to attend their church, and barely stopped short of asking her to renounce Catholicism. There’s much more I’m not remembering ATM.
OP should consider screen-recording her zoom calls.
Anybody know a good screen recording program for Linux that doesn’t alert Zoom to the recording?
If you use the browser version of Zoom, it would have no way to know
Run Zoom in a VM and record from the host maybe?
The Zoom client alerts all parties. You could use another screen recorder, but this is a two-party recording state, straight illegal to record someone without their consent.
But why racism is particular? Sure I see how she has been “othered” by the interviewer, but why racism?
I have a birthmark that reads ‘VAGINA’ on my face.
Some people treat me differently from the moment I meet them.
I say, “I think that those people are reacting to my birthmark.”You ask: “Why assume they react to your VAGINA birthmark in particular?”
- The VAGINA birthmark is visible.
- People have made fun of me for having it before.
- I can see facial expressions when people perceive it, and notice features of judgemental reaction in their speech and behaviour after.
Now, apply this to OP’s wife. OP says this about her:
If I hadn’t seen the blatant discrimination she’s faced job hunting, I’d be more skeptical. She’s Filipino, but that’s “Mexican” to many. When I say blatant, I mean to say heads would roll if we had some of this on camera. She’s mostly unhurt by these things, just figures that’s the way of the world. But damn. One lady asked if she was Asian and was visibly appalled. Another said she would have to attend their church, and barely stopped short of asking her to renounce Catholicism. There’s much more I’m not remembering ATM.
I’m heavily autistic. I’ve figured this all out logically, as a person who has experience discrimination myself. It wasn’t easy, because I don’t grasp social cues natively. I thought I’d been doing something wrong for a long long time when people initially appraised me as ‘other’, but it turned out they were just being judgemental assholes. If you’re not heavily autistic, I believe it should be easier for you to figure all this out, right?
…you have a birthmark in the shape of legible english characters, not just one, but a full sequence which spell a word?..
It was a metaphor, lol
It was a dumb metaphor that made no sense.
So, a visible difference that some other people react to with prejudice is not like racism. Got it.
You ask: “Why assume they react to your VISIBLE ETHNIC DIFFERENCES in particular?”
- The VISIBLE DIFFERENCES are visible.
- People have made fun of me for having those VISIBLE DIFFERENCES before.
- I can see facial expressions when people perceive THOSE VISIBLE DIFFERENCES, and notice features of judgemental reaction in their speech and behaviour after.
I’m sure you can comprehend why removing the controversial topic of ethnic differences [controversial because e.g. some people want to claim racism is does not happen any longer, or is not of any importance when it does because ‘it’s illegal to discriminate’] to replace it with another visible difference made it a suitable metaphor. I’m sure that you knew this, in fact, when you called it ‘dumb’.
Your annoyance is, therefore, possibly more at me saying that a woman is allowed to believe she is being targeted for racist reasons, and that such a woman should be listened to fairly. Feel free to clarify on that, if you wish. As for me, I logically believe that racism exists, as I have seen it. And that people can intuit when it is happening, as I have seen it. And that other people can disagree with it, because they profit from racism being ignored, as I have seen it.Yeah that was a shit metaphor.
Well if you aren’t willing to engage in any sort of introspection all metaphor is stupid probably.
I think it made sense to most other people who read it
Or maybe the problem is with you?
I’m autistic also and I understood it just fine.
The irony of the autistic person using a metaphor, and someone else taking it too literally. You have to laugh!
It’s about as likely as someone starting and ending all of their writing with ellipses, with some of those ellipses being incomplete.
… all part of the flow mang…
She’s probably a race
deleted by creator
If the blurring is happening to her I9 info, like her driver’s license, yeah they’ll ask to unblur. Especially on Zoom… Zoom will see the image on the ID, focus on it, and blur the rest of the ID. I had to do the same thing.
Oooh that’s a good point. Never thought of that.
Have they not got emails where you live?
When you present your ID, they want to see it live, like you’re in person. They want to confirm it’s an actual ID card, not some photoshop junk. It’s also why they will ask you to flip the card around so they can verify that it looks like a typical state issued ID. Very easy to trick others with photoshopped documents - so I doubt they would ever ask for your I9 forms via email. Especially since most people don’t have encrypted / secured email.
Oh. Where I live you just send a photo taken on your phone by email. It’s only so they can say they’ve asked for proof you’re allowed to work here after all.
That would be fair, but the stated reason was to look at her background.
I re-read your post, yeah that’s a bit strange. A lot of times, when I had worked remote, I would take my laptop and chill outside to do my work. A lot of the meetings I got into wasn’t even indoors. You’d think they’d maybe ask during the interview process? Rather than after getting the job offer.
Nonetheless, HR fkin sucks. I’ve been burned just once by HR and that’s all it took to realize HR is never to be trusted.
You really shouldn’t hire a wife, that seems wrong
I mean I bet he got a really good deal for it otherwise he wouldn’t be bragging on the internet
I wouldn’t call that kosher, personally.
“Sorry, this is a shared office and my partner is working under NDA”
No such thing as an NDA that allows a spouse to work in the same room, and allows the spouse to actually be on video while blurred, but draws the line at not being able to unblur the video.
It is it’s the NDA you made your partner sign.
There is and unfortunately I cannot show you the NDA as the NDA won’t allow me to show you the NDA. The NDA does allow me talk about the conditions in general like this though.
There was just a news article about US corporations hiring North Koreans for remote work unintentionally, and the north Koreans then did a sabotage and stole secrets… Strikes me as HR is freaking out across the board and they were looking to confirm you aren’t actually based in a foreign country. It is very easy to hide where you are(phone numbers can be forwarded, addresses can be false). If it’s a 1 time thing, not racism, if they consistently single her out, is there anyone else of her race being singled out? Did HR maybe get a derogatory report from someone that doesn’t like her and they wanted to see if she was sober? That’s happened to me.
Seems like something sufficient IT security could prevent easily enough.
That is the reason why identification documents are needed. How can they hire people without knowing who they are?
NK stole the identity of other Americans. They dotted i’s and crossed t’s to get into knowb4 via social engineering. Really fucked up.
Edit: check out the link above for full story
KnowBe4 has an article about their experience.
They also covered at least one other instance in the US.
I work in tech and needed to do this as part of onboarding after receiving an offer. Asking during the interview is a little weird but if they’ve had problems where their desired candidate didn’t have the necessary documents then it makes sense. I wouldn’t assume they’re wanting to see your house, they’re likely just wanting to make sure you won’t need H1B sponsorship to get the necessary documents to complete the I-9.
She’s not H1B, in fact, I’m worried about her PC skills for this position! But I get your drift.
Another weird thing is checking her docs online when she’s been to the office already. She’s there now! You would think for something so important to the employer in-person would be required .
AHRAB
I don’t know if they’re all bastards, but HR is absolutely not your friend. Human Resources <> protections for employees. Instead, Human Resources = protection for the company
Technically anything that is a “resource” for a company is something that is meant to be exploited for profit.
I don’t know if they’re all bastards
As it’s not likely that all people who work in HR have unmarried parents, it’s probably less literal language that labels them as belonging to a group of people who would harm you if it suited their interests.
All the HR people I’ve known who were not like that eventually left their job, because what they were asked to do went beyond their moral boundaries. Leaving HR to be the ones who were, indeed, those who didn’t feel such qualms.
All HR Are Bastards?
That’s a bingo
I initially read it as someone saying ‘Arab’ in a stereotypical Southern drawl, and I was confused.
Post pandemic, this kind of ID “verification” is SUPER bogus, but it’s quite common unfortunately, and, tbh, I can’t think of a better way to handle it that isn’t either in person or via snail mail.
Not great for sure, but most likely not racist, or at least not purposefully so (not that that matters).
Uh, I hire a lot of remote people, and have been remote for a long time. That is absolutely not fucking normal. I’m not going to say racism/poor/or anything, but I will say asshole behavior and huge red flag.
I’ve been remote the past 5 years as well. I’ve never heard of anyone, anywhere, for any reason being asked to un-blur video. Customers, vendors, coworkers, everyone does it. In fact, I consider it more professional, and certainly less distracting to do so unless you background is 100% work dedicated. Hence my post.
I agree! I brought this up with my team and they all laughed at it, and brought up too that “Wouldn’t it look more professional having it on?”
okay but consider that you don’t have as much surveilance of your employees, and without that, how are you supposed to discipline them?
Just checking, youre being sarcastic right?
I was riffing on the original and translated titles of foucault’s most well known work. whether it was sarcasm or not; 🤷♀️
Even in a 100% work dedicated office, there is no background that looks as professional and uncluttered as a blurred one.
I only unblur if I’m showing off my bookshelf or video game posters
I only leave my stuff unblurred cuz my cats like to be on cam.
My cat will get in front of me on camera, so blurring wouldn’t even do anything
It seems like you are getting more knee jerk than actual answers here. There is no evidence of any discrimination in asking to deblur the camera by itself. It also has nothing to do with an I9 validation. The I9 validation is checking for employment eligibility and citizenship status and that’s it. See below for the remote procedures. The employer’s obligation is to be consistent in the procedure and not discriminatory with the procedure based on race, gender, etc. I just think that HR drone is a dumbass.
Lastly, I think based on your other response to another poster she should take the job and just be keenly aware if anyone else in HR asks other funny stuff. There can always be dumbasses in every department and that’s not a reflection of their ability to be lawful or a bad company. I also think it’s worth reporting the person if they keep doing funny stuff.
From USCIS: Remote Examination of Documents Procedures: Examine copies (front and back, if the document is two-sided) of Form I-9 documents or an acceptable receipt to ensure that the documentation presented reasonably appears to be genuine and relates to the employee; Conduct a live video interaction with the individual presenting the document(s) to ensure that the documentation reasonably appears to be genuine and relates to the individual. The employee must first transmit a copy of the document(s) to the employer (per Step 1 above) and then present the same document(s) during the live video interaction; and Retain a clear and legible copy of the documentation (front and back if the documentation is two-sided).
Link https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/remote-examination-of-documents
the HR drone could’ve probably explained it better, but it’s possible for the background blur effect to distort a close up img on camera of a document, such as for I9. I recently went through a verification of my documents and had to do the same thing, except I made the call to unblur and immediately my docs were verifiable via camera.
Likely policy is to ask for blur effects to be disabled to remove the possibility of interference in be able to actually see/verify docs.
that HR drone is a dumbass
My take as well, and thanks for taking the time for a real answer.
