(Please when answering, assume I’m not a beginner at privacy/programming :) I know where the good stuff at)
First off, shameful confession: I’m writing this on a dying yellow iPhone XR I bought second-hand three years ago (189€). I absolutely love the look of it: the screen, build quality, are all amazing. The only problem was the locked ecosystem (sideloading Spotify/Torrent client was sooo hard).
I saw the android phone of my mother dying really fast. She currently has a Xiaomi phone that’s ridiculously big for my hands, there’s advertisements in the stocks apps (?!!), the UX is janky and everything. It looks like a bloat, privacy nightmare.
So… because it’s impossible to find a jailbreakable phone nowadays I need to buy an android and ideally I would want:
- Good screen (vivid colors)
- Good build quality (not shitty plastic)
- Don’t care about the camera (I don’t want those ridiculously big cameras they make nowadays)
- Would want to install either GrapheneOS/LineageOS
The things that scare me off:
- I really need my bank app and I need it updated so I have to use Google Play Services but I don’t want it to plague my phone with privacy bullshit (I want to be degoogled)
The things that excite me:
- Customization possibilities
- Learning experience
- Even more privacy than a de-googled IOS phone :)
- F-Droid!! (Maybe I’ll find a beautiful IRC client)
- More choices for Mastodon & Lemmy clients
- Freedom of free software.
- client for open-source git providers :)
But to get all of that, I don’t want Google, I need shitty apps (non-free software) I have to install:
- Instagram (for non-technical friends)
- GitHub (job & open-source)
- No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
- Discord (gamer friends)
- Telegram (cryptobros friends)
- Steam (because I still love gaming)
Any advices? Phone ideas? I’m so lost in this ocean of choice (freedom ✨)
My current phone:
Calyx OS, Graphene OS or Lineage OS with MicroG. All of those will work fine for your use case. Just aim to get as many of your apps off of F-droid as possible. F-droid is a marketplace of free software and all apps in the main repo must meet certain requirements.
I would recommend eliminating your non free apps especially the dark pattern ones like Instagram and Discord. These apps are not private and you can’t make them private. They are designed to get you hooked to the point where you can not leave. Also Targeted advertising has its own dark patterns which are harmful on so many levels. I realize it is hard to move but you can be the change you want to see. Maybe make it a long term goal to try to get people to move somewhere else. You can do some research and come up with an alternative.
Check lineage’s list of supported devices.
Though after 15 years of flashing phones, I’m now on the Pixel train. I love the plastic back on mine. Makes it lighter while also making it stronger. Plastic doesn’t crack like glass or ceramic.
If you use a Pixel, why don’t you go with GrapheneOS? It is much more secure and private than LineageOS.
We need more Lemmy posts with sections “The things that excite me”
This is crazy. I’m in exactly the same situation and have been thinking about getting a mobile plan with a Pixel 8 (where I would install GrapheneOS on) as those are getting cheaper with the Pixel 9 out not.
Google Pixel of some kind.
One of the only phone lineups with easy bootloader unlock, and also the only ones supported by GrapheneOS.
You can also use it as-is if needed without going crazy from ads and notifications everywhere like other brands tend to have.
Pixels are great, but definitely make sure to install GrapheneOS to increase your privacy and security
You can also use it as-is if needed without going crazy from ads and notifications everywhere like other brands tend to have.
Isn’t it bad since Google == Far from privacy?
Sure. But at least it doesn’t come with tiktok and facebook
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ and make sure to double-check that unlocking the bootloader isn’t too much bother (ie. read the installation instructions)
Lineage IS for MicroG: https://lineage.microg.org/
Also keep in mind that Lineage OS is not designed to relock the bootloader.
This project makes it so much less painful to get microG up & running. It all just works. If only they were the default for these unofficial LineageOS builds as it would seem like the tinkering types are more likely to be interested in takinga privacy step with microG than those that want Google Play.
Lineage OS is not designed to relock the bootloader.
I don’t understand why so many people worry about that… doesn’t it only ensure that data is wiped if some agent secretly installs a rootkit or sorts on your phone before giving back the device to you?
To me, bootloader locking is mostly a way for phone manufacturers to make it harder to run anything but the ROM they have chosen (and it’s a PITA and the most laborious part of installing a ROM).
It prevents a random guy from picking up your phone and flashing a different (probably more malicious) custom rom
Take a look at Nitro Key. They’re like Yubikey, but they sell pixel phones with a security and privacy focused custom grapheneOS.
They’re really overpriced though. Flashing GrapheneOS is really easy thanks to their Web-based installer, and there are countless tutorials on YouTube.
Is it any different than installing grapheneos on pixel phone yourself?
Not everyone wants to mess with loading custom roms and configuring systems.
In the case of GOS in particular, it is made ridiculously easy by the web installer though.
Take the Fairphone over the Pixel since you’re in Europe
? I’m a European Pixel user.
Better repairibility and no useless features like they’re pushing. Graphene is good but it’s not the only privacy-focused Android distribution
Why not use most of the web versions of the non-free apps you mentioned? No Google needed.
- push notifications
- websites that tell you “use our app”
- better UX
You sound like the ideal candidate for a refurbished Pixel 7 / 8 from amazon.
Test its hardware thoroughly on the stock os in case you need to return it.
Install GrapheneOS using the Web installer.
Install Droid-ify into your main profile from the f-droid web page. It looks much better than the official f-droid client and actually has a working auto-update
Create a work profile. I use an app called Shelter as the work profile admin app. This allows you to auto freeze your big-tech apps to help with battery life / privacy. Install google services from the built-in GrapheneOS app store.
Enjoy.
Google services shouldn’t even be needed for the apps OP listed above. Instagram works just fine without Google services, just like Discord, Telegram and Steam. I don’t know about GitHub, but there are FOSS alternatives for it on F-Droid. Spotify (xManager) also works just fine.
Generally agreed, I would actually try using as many services with their progressive web apps.
The main reason I think they may need google services is the banking app. Mine will refuse to launch without google services installed.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I’ve never seen the point of PWAs. I don’t want a crappy website as an icon on my homescreen, I want a proper native app. If the app is privacy-invasive, I will either find a FOSS alternatives, or isolate it in a separate user profile.
The main reason I think they may need google services is the banking app. Mine will refuse to launch without google services installed.
That’s true, I also need Play services for mine, but I have a special user profile for it.
I’d go either with a Fairphone 5 (or maybe wait for the 6 to release) with CalyxOS or a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS.
I’m on Fairphone 4 with CalyxOS, and I am happy with that. I would not expect them to release a Fairphone 6 anytime soon, so unless OP has all the time in the world, the Fairphone 5 should be good if they want to go this route.
everyone keeps mentioning Pixel Devices, but I’d personally never use one for the same reason I won’t wear branded clothes
you should check out OnePlus devices, the bootloaders are easily unlocked and they’ve major LineageOS support, the phones also have a high quality build, if you like the form of your XR, definitely check out the OnePlus 8/8 pro or 9/9 pro
another option is if you can get any of the Samsung S10 models with an exynos chip, they also have strong build and are supported by lineageOS as well
You can unlock the bootloader on OnePlus devices, but you can’t re-lock it afterwards, permanently leaving your device in an insecure state. This is a really bad idea, and definitely shouldn’t be recommended.
The S10 came out in 2019 and hasn’t been supported by the manufacturer for a long time, it’s not a good idea either.
And lastly, LineageOS itself is pretty insecure. It is much weaker than stock Android or even iOS. You can read more about this here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lineageos
or here: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htmIt also has much worse app compatibility than GrapheneOS, because it doesn’t use the official Google Play services binary (which GrapheneOS puts in a sandbox to restrict its access), except you install it as a system application, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of using a custom ROM in the first place. GrapheneOS is the easiest, best and most secure choice for degoogling.
I would just add a +1 for Sony Xperia phones with LineageOS support (do check). They offer OLED panels, a 3.5mm headphone jack, & microSD card—with the last two once being standard now almost impossible to find despite their usefulness.
As for services, many of them can be accessed thru a browser. There are enough Firefox forks out there that you could stay authenticated with these grimy, untrustworthy apps & another fork with your typical web browsing.
That said some of this could be given up to an extent. If you have a microSD slot or carry a separate DAP, there shouldn’t be much need for Spotify where an offline library is quicker, saves data, & can offer higher bitrates (obv no ads too). Microsoft GitHub is not useful on a phone since no one codes on a phone & you can subscribe to the things you need either their Atom feeds or via email & all of your personal code should be living somewhere off the proprietary platform—especially if you want to help access to contributions since it is blocked for US sactions in some regions & they bow out to capitalist interests (see youtube-dl, or Switch emulators, etc.), while requiring your contributors give up their privacy as there is no way to report bugs or send patches without an account. And the chat options, depending on the situation you should see if you can get folks to consider your privacy too (else why on this sub?) & switch to something decentralized & with E2EE the default for DMs & optional for groups—XMPP is a great default choice, Mumble was built for games, but there are other options. Need is a strong word, & it might take a few years, but eventually, hopefully you can ween yourself & help friends get off these platforms as it is bad for them too, but you are not going to get much privacy if the corporations & governments can still read all your chats.
Your “ideally would want” pretty much locks you to a Pixel phone. The 7 has serious radio issues, the 8 works great (I had the 7 Pro now have the 8 Pro, no always on GrapheneOS) and don’t know about the 9, but other that all the AI bullshit they are pushing with it, I don’t really see that the specs justify those prices, specially since you’re looking at installing GrapheneOS on it.
5a was the last version with a headphone jack, so they lost my respect
That’s an across the board thing. But yes, that’s l a removed.
Throwing Fairphone into the pot. They’re well supported by LineageOS and have the additional advantage of being user-repairable.
But they only ship inside Europe.
