(Please when answering, assume I’m not a beginner at privacy/programming :) I know where the good stuff at)
First off, shameful confession: I’m writing this on a dying yellow iPhone XR I bought second-hand three years ago (189€). I absolutely love the look of it: the screen, build quality, are all amazing. The only problem was the locked ecosystem (sideloading Spotify/Torrent client was sooo hard).
I saw the android phone of my mother dying really fast. She currently has a Xiaomi phone that’s ridiculously big for my hands, there’s advertisements in the stocks apps (?!!), the UX is janky and everything. It looks like a bloat, privacy nightmare.
So… because it’s impossible to find a jailbreakable phone nowadays I need to buy an android and ideally I would want:
- Good screen (vivid colors)
- Good build quality (not shitty plastic)
- Don’t care about the camera (I don’t want those ridiculously big cameras they make nowadays)
- Would want to install either GrapheneOS/LineageOS
The things that scare me off:
- I really need my bank app and I need it updated so I have to use Google Play Services but I don’t want it to plague my phone with privacy bullshit (I want to be degoogled)
The things that excite me:
- Customization possibilities
- Learning experience
- Even more privacy than a de-googled IOS phone :)
- F-Droid!! (Maybe I’ll find a beautiful IRC client)
- More choices for Mastodon & Lemmy clients
- Freedom of free software.
- client for open-source git providers :)
But to get all of that, I don’t want Google, I need shitty apps (non-free software) I have to install:
- Instagram (for non-technical friends)
- GitHub (job & open-source)
- No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
- Discord (gamer friends)
- Telegram (cryptobros friends)
- Steam (because I still love gaming)
Any advices? Phone ideas? I’m so lost in this ocean of choice (freedom ✨)
My current phone:
everyone keeps mentioning Pixel Devices, but I’d personally never use one for the same reason I won’t wear branded clothes
you should check out OnePlus devices, the bootloaders are easily unlocked and they’ve major LineageOS support, the phones also have a high quality build, if you like the form of your XR, definitely check out the OnePlus 8/8 pro or 9/9 pro
another option is if you can get any of the Samsung S10 models with an exynos chip, they also have strong build and are supported by lineageOS as well
You can unlock the bootloader on OnePlus devices, but you can’t re-lock it afterwards, permanently leaving your device in an insecure state. This is a really bad idea, and definitely shouldn’t be recommended.
The S10 came out in 2019 and hasn’t been supported by the manufacturer for a long time, it’s not a good idea either.
And lastly, LineageOS itself is pretty insecure. It is much weaker than stock Android or even iOS. You can read more about this here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lineageos
or here: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htmIt also has much worse app compatibility than GrapheneOS, because it doesn’t use the official Google Play services binary (which GrapheneOS puts in a sandbox to restrict its access), except you install it as a system application, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of using a custom ROM in the first place. GrapheneOS is the easiest, best and most secure choice for degoogling.
A pixel phone with GrapheneOs?
We need more Lemmy posts with sections “The things that excite me”
Buy a used Pixel that fits your budget. The Pixel 6 sometimes has problems with the battery so maybe rather choose between 7, 8 or 9. But you could send it to Google to get a new one but then you have to deal with them so yeah. Ifixit also has first party replacement batteries if you would choose the Pixel 6 and you would get this problem. Still I would recommend 7 lineup. Just take a look at grapheneos.org for length of support. Also 9 will be hard to find 2nd-hand I recon ;^)
Google phone for Graphene is mandatory therefore not my suggestion.
Lineage should not be your alternative as it is not privacy orientated. Take a look at Divest or /e/. There are many supported devices and in terms of privacy much better than Lineage. But in terms of security it is: Divest >> Lineage > /e/
You can check what devices are supported and which suits your needs best
The Divest developer has close ties to the Graphene team. Also he is pretty determined to be a one man team and some people have complained. Calyx OS might be a better choice as it is maintained by the Calyx Institute.
Graphene OS only works on Pixel Phones. They’re really the gold standard. Pick one from the supported list on the graphene os website that suits your needs.
i wish i knew about graphene when i got a pixel 6 pro. i got rid of it only after a year because it was such a buggy POS.
Havjng a look at CalyxOS may also be an option. It’s another privacy android ROM, but it runs in more devices than just Pixels.
I’d go either with a Fairphone 5 (or maybe wait for the 6 to release) with CalyxOS or a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS.
I’m on Fairphone 4 with CalyxOS, and I am happy with that. I would not expect them to release a Fairphone 6 anytime soon, so unless OP has all the time in the world, the Fairphone 5 should be good if they want to go this route.
This is crazy. I’m in exactly the same situation and have been thinking about getting a mobile plan with a Pixel 8 (where I would install GrapheneOS on) as those are getting cheaper with the Pixel 9 out not.
Take the Fairphone over the Pixel since you’re in Europe
? I’m a European Pixel user.
Better repairibility and no useless features like they’re pushing. Graphene is good but it’s not the only privacy-focused Android distribution
Check lineage’s list of supported devices.
Though after 15 years of flashing phones, I’m now on the Pixel train. I love the plastic back on mine. Makes it lighter while also making it stronger. Plastic doesn’t crack like glass or ceramic.
If you use a Pixel, why don’t you go with GrapheneOS? It is much more secure and private than LineageOS.
Buy unlocked. It’ll cost more and you won’t have the option of doing the carrier/manufacturers no interest payment system, but that’s what it costs to actually not be locked into a particular carrier for the foreseeable future.
My actual advice about phone choice is to learn the unjailbroken ios way of doing things because what you’re asking for in your post knocks out a lot of the more specific things people recommend on android devices and pushes you to smaller or not privacy focused roms.
You’re not auditing the code so you need the most eyes on it that you can get so running smaller or less privacy oriented software becomes more of an issue.
If you haven’t already, make a threat model and see if/how that changes your requirements and desires.
Google Pixel of some kind.
One of the only phone lineups with easy bootloader unlock, and also the only ones supported by GrapheneOS.
You can also use it as-is if needed without going crazy from ads and notifications everywhere like other brands tend to have.
Pixels are great, but definitely make sure to install GrapheneOS to increase your privacy and security
You can also use it as-is if needed without going crazy from ads and notifications everywhere like other brands tend to have.
Isn’t it bad since Google == Far from privacy?
Sure. But at least it doesn’t come with tiktok and facebook
Calyx OS, Graphene OS or Lineage OS with MicroG. All of those will work fine for your use case. Just aim to get as many of your apps off of F-droid as possible. F-droid is a marketplace of free software and all apps in the main repo must meet certain requirements.
I would recommend eliminating your non free apps especially the dark pattern ones like Instagram and Discord. These apps are not private and you can’t make them private. They are designed to get you hooked to the point where you can not leave. Also Targeted advertising has its own dark patterns which are harmful on so many levels. I realize it is hard to move but you can be the change you want to see. Maybe make it a long term goal to try to get people to move somewhere else. You can do some research and come up with an alternative.
@hector If you want to tinker with both Linux and Android for your phone, look at this list: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
There are some devices that can dual boot Android and Linux (the one I know of is OnePlus 6)
Since mainline Linux works on the OnePlus 6, I think there were some efforts to get the latest Android running on it. Ask in the postmarketOS Matrix chat to make sure though
Also surprised people recommending GrapheneOS: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0
I was going to mention postmarketos if they really wanted to dive headfirst into the degoogled life, lol
@Sarcasmo220 Yeah, I’m a bit surprised people aren’t recommending it and other Linux distros, especially when there are few rough edges left. Any rough edges that truly bother you, and you can switch back to LineageOS while keeping an eye on Linux for when it’s solved
Andrew Tanenbaum stated that for every 1,000 lines of properly written C code, there is a bug. AOSP is ~500 GB! I don’t trust other ROMs besides LineageOS because how do developers of other ROMs audit this?
I want to support the Linux phones, but I feel you would still be required to carry a second Android phone one way or another with just enough things in life unfortunately requiring ‘the app’ with no web alternative. This isn’t really something you can overcome without reverse engineering entire apps—which usually violates some stupid ToS that gets your account banned for using an alternative client. That said, the more these exact apps are requiring no root, no flashing, no unlocked bootloader, the closer we are getting to needing a separate device anyhow. Maybe my next phone will be Linux 🤔
@toastal Yeah, I wanna be able to support them too. I still have the Pinephone Pro just sitting there because of the abysmal battery life
Waydroid has most apps covered. Would you perhaps know of any that aren’t? Drains battery extremely fast though. You can always dual booting into Android (Not sure how that works) at least on the OnePlus 6
A bit unfortunate that devices have varying levels of functionality, but it’s still amazing what people have done so far
The GrapheneOS situation is crazy lol
